Property Market 2015

handlemaster

http://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/return-of-property-porn-as-prices-go-through-the-roof-30857063.html


What are your predictions for 2015 property market both rental and sales.

Theboinkmaster

Why does anyone ever bother linking to that rag :rolleyes:

Limited supply offset by new cb rules, end of cgt relief and cash buyers decreasing I think reduction of 5% is my guess, on national prices.

Maybe add a poll?

The_Conductor

From the same publication: New Property Crash in July 2015 will make jaws drop......

Who knows what will happen........ Excess supply in rural locations is being used again- and any sites in desireable areas- even where development can only happen at a loss- is happening (Look at Michael O'Flynns- Rokeby Park in Lucan- which is costing a total of 70 million to develop- but only likely to sell for 42-45 million (given its only 70 properties!))

Developers are not being advanced finance- other than by NAMA- which in itself speaks volumes.

2015- is wind down mode for the forthcoming general election- the politicians are unlikely to do anything- literally anything- at all- that might come back to haunt them.........

So- the market is winding down at the moment- and its only likely to accelerate in my opinion.........

hfallada

I think 2015 might see foreign investors investing into Ireland. The risk is pretty minimal considering sites are still quite cheap and offer an excellent return on investment compared to cities like Munich or London. I know a few high profile sites just sold in Dublin(5 acre site on former Smurfit Kappa factory in Glasnevin, Former steelworks site on Church St, D1), so supply will increase, but will be only a drop in the ocean.

The_Conductor

I'm not so sure- development costs are already far exceeding development costs even in locations like London or Munich- our construction workers have quite unrealistic salary expectations- and site costs- have vast gains factored into their expectations- some realistic, others not.

I can see office space continue to increase in price- I'm really not so sure about residential or commercial though- both are far more problematic........

Fkall

Dublin houses prices +8%
Dublin Apartment prices + 10%
Rents Dublin +10%

handlemaster

cgt exemption was only an incentive not sufficient in itself to move a market like wise cash buyers. The underlining value seen by investors with future potential growth was and is more of a driver. There is a residential short fall which investors have bought into which has also given rise to good rental yields. The short fall is set to continue for at least two years. I dont see a fall off in prices not from month to month perhaps a cooling off or a wait and see early next year by buyers with increases coming again in the middle of the year. The economy is doing well and very well when compared to the rest of europe.

rental prices in dublin will increase further due to job creation bith private and public theres an election coming !!! And more notably supply has not increased.

hadoken13

Hopefully the new building regulations introduced by that clown Hogan, will be relaxed a bit as it's getting far too costly to build at the moment.

hadoken13

As handlemaster said supply is not out there and with that prices will keep rising. We need tons more houses to be built.

handlemaster

hadoken13 wrote: »

As handlemaster said supply is not out there and with that prices will keep rising. We need tons more houses to be built.

how much does it cost to build an average 950sq ft house ? in Dublin. excluding site cost

I seen a burnt out house in the last allsops auction go for well over 100k cant remember exactly the price it was in dublin 15 . I would have thought a reno afterwards would have cost 50K / 60K plus depending on internal damage. I think it was sheepmoor dublin 15 . I just thought at the time people must be really desperate to buy.


p.s found it link below

http://www.allsopspace.ie/auction/lot/28132

hadoken13

handlemaster wrote: »

how much does it cost to build an average 950sq ft house ? in Dublin. excluding site cost

I seen a burnt out house in the last allsops auction go for well over 100k cant remember exactly the price it was in dublin 15 . I would have thought a reno afterwards would have cost 50K / 60K plus depending on internal damage. I think it was sheepmoor dublin 15 . I just thought at the time people must be really desperate to buy.

Not sure about renovations but new builds are far too costly.

BryanF

handlemaster wrote: »

I would have thought a reno afterwards would have cost

https://www.scsi.ie/documents/get_lob?id=56&field=file

handlemaster

BryanF wrote: »

https://www.scsi.ie/documents/get_lob?id=56&field=file

Going by that rebuild of 95sq metre home dublin would ne 170k plus cost of site. So houses un dublin 15 are very cheap

The_Conductor

handlemaster wrote: »

So houses un dublin 15 are very cheap

It really depends on the part of Dublin 15- keep in mind it includes the likes of Castleknock, Blanchardstown, Clonsilla etc- alongside the less desireable areas of Clonee, Corduff etc. There are parts of Dublin 15- which the Gardaí will not patrol- while there are also parts of Dublin 15- which are more expensive than parts of Dublin 4.........

Dublin 15- also hosts the Blanchardstown shopping centre, Google, eBay, Quinn (or whatever they're called these days) etc- it has major key employers in the area- so its not like some of the other deprived areas of Dublin- which are akin to parts of Sarajevo on a bad day......

murphaph

And it has the train to the city depending on where you are.

Tarzana2

Can't give the analysis others can here.

But I've decided to brace for a rent increase this year. I'm in D15, lease is up at the start of May. So if start of April passes with no word, happy days! But I'll expect it so as not to be taken unawares.

braddun

cheap money creates a bubble,then it crashes

El_Dangeroso

Rents up by 2% nationally (steady but with slight increase)

Rents up 4% Dublin

House prices down by 5% nationally

Down by 10% in Dublin

I'm basing these predictions upon full implementation of 20% rule by the CB.

marco_polo

I predict plenty more rubbish articles from the indo on the topic.

handlemaster

Tarzana2 wrote: »

Can't give the analysis others can here.

But I've decided to brace for a rent increase this year. I'm in D15, lease is up at the start of May. So if start of April passes with no word, happy days! But I'll expect it so as not to be taken unawares.

If you are on last years rate wouldnt be much of a change

Tarzana2

handlemaster wrote: »

If you are on last years rate wouldnt be much of a change

Yeah, crossing my fingers and toes here. We're in Ashtown but not right in the village, about a 20 min walk away. Our location isn't actually all that convenient for the train, so I'm hoping that will depress the rents a bit in our complex. It's a nice gaff though so I wanna stay put!

handlemaster

Tarzana2 wrote: »

Yeah, crossing my fingers and toes here. We're in Ashtown but not right in the village, about a 20 min walk away. Our location isn't actually all that convenient for the train, so I'm hoping that will depress the rents a bit in our complex. It's a nice gaff though so I wanna stay put!

No reason to depress prices at all.

power101

Static prices or fall of max 10%

1) Capital gains tax exemption has ended-Biggest reason for recent price increases.
2)Large number of repossessed properties to be sold
3)Higher limits on mortgages

johnp001

power101 wrote: »

Static prices or fall of max 10%

1) Capital gains tax exemption has ended-Biggest reason for recent price increases.
2)Large number of repossessed properties to be sold
3)Higher limits on mortgages

If house prices start to drop next year(due to CGT/no cash buyers, new mortgage limits, increased sale of repossessions) then the price drops will not be limited to 10% and will continue to drop for some time. Currently property prices are being chased up by buyers who see it as an asset that is constantly rising in value (both at the moment and historically for most of the last 20 years) whenever the circumstances occur that cause this behaviour to stop prices will fall for a long time until affordability returns as all the cash that was waiting on the sidelines in the last crash to inflate a dead cat bounce won't be there this time around.

who_ru

I think any fall in prices will be accompanied by vested interests leading a campaign to make credit more easily available, they might not call for already zoned land in Dublin not being used to be taxed etc.

But ultimately banks are unwilling to lend to developers on the scale that is needed, in Dublin at least, to help provide housing that is affordable. Housing in Dublin is simply unaffordable for many and I don't see that changing any time soon.

Certainly fewer transactions in 2015 I would say as half the market, that is cash buyers, have bought. Property prices in Dublin now make investment an unwise choice.

Don't expect any major solutions from this govt.

johnp001

who_ru wrote: »

Housing in Dublin is simply unaffordable for many and I don't see that changing any time soon.

Definitely agree that it is unaffordable. Interesting analysis here http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/mortgage-affordability-1690278-Sep2014/

who_ru wrote: »

Certainly fewer transactions in 2015 I would say as half the market, that is cash buyers, have bought. Property prices in Dublin now make investment an unwise choice.

Fewer transactions due to 50% reduction in demand as described above definitely translates to lower prices.

who_ru wrote: »

Don't expect any major solutions from this govt.

This government has made some populist statements about the cb mortgage lending rules but it has presided over the removal of mortgage interest relief, introduction of property tax, and (eventual) removal of CGT exemption.
Better track record than the previous government's efforts to desperately keep the property bubble inflating indefinitely.

handlemaster

Indo sets out its stall based on 50 agents view ;-)))

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/strong-2015-predicted-for-house-market-outside-dublin-30867259.html

johnp001

handlemaster wrote: »

Indo sets out its stall based on 50 agents view ;-)))

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/strong-2015-predicted-for-house-market-outside-dublin-30867259.html

Comments under that article are worth a look too!

Just looking down this forum at the thread from the seller deliberating on whether to sell now at break even point or hold on until next year for profits. I wonder how a reversal in prices would affect supply? A lot of commentators say lower prices would constrict supply as people won't sell "below value" but if there are sellers holding out for the top of the market, when it becomes obvious that this top has passed there will likely be a rush to offload assets that are now falling in value.

The_Conductor

handlemaster wrote: »

Indo sets out its stall based on 50 agents view ;-)))

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/strong-2015-predicted-for-house-market-outside-dublin-30867259.html

So basically- Dublin will see small rises- but mad 20%+ increases for rural areas (presumably outside of Cork/Galway- which have experienced Dublin's rises).

I don't think so............

I'd also suggest whoever wrote the article might like to actually look at the PRTB and the CSO stats- the price rises in Dublin did not peter out in Q4- as they are suggesting- the biggest petering out happened back in Q2- before which prices had wild swing and after which wild swings also occurred. One month alone accounts for over 7% of the annual price rise on record........

As for a delay in sales- 6 weeks is now optimistic- sales have pretty much stalled (from talking to receivers)- and up to 75% of agreed sales are falling through.........

The picture being portrayed in that article are unrealistically rosy.

gaius c

The indo did print one article predicting drops but it was clearly intended to be satirical and humourous. That's how preposterous they consider such predictions to be.

who_ru

The_Conductor wrote: »

So basically- Dublin will see small rises- but mad 20%+ increases for rural areas (presumably outside of Cork/Galway- which have experienced Dublin's rises).

I don't think so............

.

Exactly. Rural Ireland, where there are far far fewer job opportunities, far lower average incomes compared to urban centres and suddenly people in these areas are going to pay 20% more for property that they could by this year cheaper.

What a load of rubbish from the indo again. It's a joke of a title.

murphaph

johnp001 wrote: »

Comments under that article are worth a look too!

Just looking down this forum at the thread from the seller deliberating on whether to sell now at break even point or hold on until next year for profits. I wonder how a reversal in prices would affect supply? A lot of commentators say lower prices would constrict supply as people won't sell "below value" but if there are sellers holding out for the top of the market, when it becomes obvious that this top has passed there will likely be a rush to offload assets that are now falling in value.

Too many variables like this stuff make predicting the market impossible as far as I'm concerned.

quadrifoglio verde

The_Conductor wrote: »

From the same publication: New Property Crash in July 2015 will make jaws drop......

Who knows what will happen........ Excess supply in rural locations is being used again- and any sites in desireable areas- even where development can only happen at a loss- is happening (Look at Michael O'Flynns- Rokeby Park in Lucan- which is costing a total of 70 million to develop- but only likely to sell for 42-45 million (given its only 70 properties!))

Developers are not being advanced finance- other than by NAMA- which in itself speaks volumes.

2015- is wind down mode for the forthcoming general election- the politicians are unlikely to do anything- literally anything- at all- that might come back to haunt them.........

So- the market is winding down at the moment- and its only likely to accelerate in my opinion.........

I saw your post about this the other day on another thread and was going to reply pointing out the figures don't stack up but figured it was a mistake and was going to cost 40 million in total and not 40 to build.
What's he playing at though?

The_Conductor

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

I saw your post about this the other day on another thread and was going to reply pointing out the figures don't stack up but figured it was a mistake and was going to cost 40 million in total and not 40 to build.
What's he playing at though?

I'm guessing the original 30 million that was paid for the site- is written down to next to nothing by NAMA- and they are providing the finance to build the 70 homes (40 million)- on the understanding that their investment makes some sort of sense (well- it gets the sites off their books).

O'Flynn in turn- gets his 2% gross on the transaction- as guaranteed by NAMA- and cashflow to get Blackrock off his back (once his 2015 payments are made- apparently he has no further repayments due on his loans for several years- so he just needs to get any schemes he get- out the door in as prompt a manner as possible- and the Dublin based councils are behaving in their most helpful manners, ever........

Purchasers in turn- will be buying properties for a little over half what it cost to build them- so its a win-win for potential purchasers (presuming they have access to 600k of finance)..........

I think the big winners in all of this- would be Shannon Homes- the developers of Laraghcon- who got over 20 million from a previous owner of the site for access (sewage, water etc) which was not forthcoming by any other method......... The current inhabitants of Laraghcon may be on the hook for new expanded facilities there- well, their Management Company would be- its in their articles of association- whether anyone has bothered to read the small print or not, remains to be seen........ Given how the residents there were in breach of the planning for their development for a number of years- before they allowed the relief road open out onto the Clonee Road- I'm guessing they'll fight it tooth and nail.......

Of course- the loans used to pay the 20mil for the site- are also in NAMA....... NAMA will be thrilled to get this mess off their hands.......

I live in Lucan village by the way- on the bridge in one of the town houses where the old cinema used be- and I grew up in Laraghcon- as a kid- so I've been keeping tabs on that development in particular- as I've a personal interest in it........

MouseTail

murphaph wrote: »

Too many variables like this stuff make predicting the market impossible as far as I'm concerned.

True, but this is a thread for predictions, so....
Bullish, I think Dublin could see 10-12% increases, there may be interference in rental market, so hard to call, maybe 10% increases. Supply wont be fixed next year!
Smaller increases elsewhere.
Unemployment at 8% by year end, hopefully less, continued growth.

ShortyGotLow

I think Dublin houses will neither rise nor fall majorly over the next 12 months, apartments will probably drop some as I believe a lot of the boom-time built apartments are dreadful build quality and these revelations are only starting to come out now.

The_Conductor

I'll go with a 5% fall in Dublin property prices, and a 7-8% rise in non-Dublin property prices, with a broadly neutral overall picture. I'd also go with a massive uptick in the number of properties on offer- and a commensurate lengthening in sale times- which I imagine could head for the 10-12 week mark in the more vibrant markets (Dublin/Cork/Galway)- and much longer elsewhere.........

Wonder which of us will be most accurate?

handlemaster

The_Conductor wrote: »

I'll go with a 5% fall in Dublin property prices, and a 7-8% rise in non-Dublin property prices, with a broadly neutral overall picture. I'd also go with a massive uptick in the number of properties on offer- and a commensurate lengthening in sale times- which I imagine could head for the 10-12 week mark in the more vibrant markets (Dublin/Cork/Galway)- and much longer elsewhere.........

Wonder which of us will be most accurate?

Why a fall ? If anything more demand with miminal supply increase .

The_Conductor

handlemaster wrote: »

Why a fall ? If anything more demand with miminal supply increase .

Cash buyers are falling as a percentage of buyers, the yield isn't there for investors at current price levels, and finance is tighter for borrowers...... Supply may be limited- but finance is becoming even more limited.......

There are several developments coming onstream in the burbs (which I'd classify as places as far out as Navan)- supply is actually increasing- and developments on the market at the moment (think North Co. Dublin)- aren't generating the levels of interest that low supply would suggest.......

Its an interesting market- supply may not be the bottle neck- I'd suggest finance has replaced it as the no. 1 issue at this stage.........

Piriz

handlemaster wrote: »

Why a fall ? If anything more demand with miminal supply increase .

I would expect a fall of 10 - 20% in Dublin in 2015 due to the new CB lending rules, removal of CGT exemption and general affordability being stifled by taxes and charges seriously hampering demand and affordability..

jmayo

johnp001 wrote: »

Comments under that article are worth a look too!

Just looking down this forum at the thread from the seller deliberating on whether to sell now at break even point or hold on until next year for profits. I wonder how a reversal in prices would affect supply? A lot of commentators say lower prices would constrict supply as people won't sell "below value" but if there are sellers holding out for the top of the market, when it becomes obvious that this top has passed there will likely be a rush to offload assets that are now falling in value.

I thought this was the best one.
Obviously a construction worker hoping the good days are on their way back.

@MastaKink - The good news is for the 100,000 unemployed construction workers who need to see property prices rise 20-40% above construction cost to find stable work.

The nightmare scenario would be a spiral where rents continuing to rise because house prices are too low to see new houses built. Any rise in house prices in the €150,000 - €300,000 bracket is very good news for the economy in general but for unemployed construction workers in particular.

The best bit I think is highlighted.
How do these people think that shoving up the price of a normal family home is good news for the economy, an economy that is not the most robust, and would not exist but for the multinationals here for tax purposes.

The government will be loathe to do anything and thus I think the 20% CB deposit will actually be very loosely adhered to for most.
It is external factors that need to be considered on what happens this year.
For instance watch the Greek tragedy unfold and watch the stock market.

El_Dangeroso

The_Conductor wrote: »

Wonder which of us will be most accurate?

Murphy's law says every one of us will be wrong and something totally unexpected will happen, but it will be an interesting year for sure!

johnp001

jmayo wrote: »

How do these people think that shoving up the price of a normal family home is good news for the economy, an economy that is not the most robust, and would not exist but for the multinationals here for tax purposes.

Agree with that. House prices rising at rates that necessitate a further crash is good news for no-one.

I had only seen the first few comments that were up at the time of my post and I was struck by...

So, estate agents predict we will chose to pay 20% extra for house next year? And what else is new?

...

Spot on John.

In other news.

Snake Oil salesmen predict strong demand for snake oil in 2015 as availability dwindles.

johnp001

The_Conductor wrote: »

I'll go with a 5% fall in Dublin property prices, and a 7-8% rise in non-Dublin property prices, with a broadly neutral overall picture. I'd also go with a massive uptick in the number of properties on offer- and a commensurate lengthening in sale times- which I imagine could head for the 10-12 week mark in the more vibrant markets (Dublin/Cork/Galway)- and much longer elsewhere.........

Wonder which of us will be most accurate?

What would you predict would be the driver for rise in non-Dublin property prices happening at the same time as drops in Dublin prices?
As far as I have seen the main rises in non-dublin prices have been "halo effect" of proximity to Dublin for wicklow/kildare/meath and very slight rises in Cork. Most rural counties have oversupply due to lack of planning regulation during the boom and properties for sale below construction cost. Most counties are not showing any increases at all and some are still falling (e.g. Roscommon, Mayo, Cavan, Longford, Tipperary etc..) according to PPR data.

I agree that there is likely to be a marked increase in properties for sale if and when prices in Dublin start to fall as people who are holding off selling due to the fact that the price of their property is still rising want to take advantage of the top of the market to sell.

alias no.9

Full implementation of the CB lending rules should put a halt to any further house price inflation, if that hasn't happened already, things may even fall back a bit.
It may however exacerbate the rental crisis with low turnover of stock.

Mr. teddywinkles

jmayo wrote: »

I thought this was the best one.
Obviously a construction worker hoping the good days are on their way back.



The best bit I think is highlighted.
How do these people think that shoving up the price of a normal family home is good news for the economy, an economy that is not the most robust, and would not exist but for the multinationals here for tax purposes.

The government will be loathe to do anything and thus I think the 20% CB deposit will actually be very loosely adhered to for most.
It is external factors that need to be considered on what happens this year.
For instance watch the Greek tragedy unfold and watch the stock market.

Whoes going to buy all these highly priced properties?

The_Conductor

johnp001 wrote: »

What would you predict would be the driver for rise in non-Dublin property prices happening at the same time as drops in Dublin prices?
As far as I have seen the main rises in non-dublin prices have been "halo effect" of proximity to Dublin for wicklow/kildare/meath and very slight rises in Cork. Most rural counties have oversupply due to lack of planning regulation during the boom and properties for sale below construction cost. Most counties are not showing any increases at all and some are still falling (e.g. Roscommon, Mayo, Cavan, Longford, Tipperary etc..) according to PPR data.

I agree that there is likely to be a marked increase in properties for sale if and when prices in Dublin start to fall as people who are holding off selling due to the fact that the price of their property is still rising want to take advantage of the top of the market to sell.

To be honest with you- comparing the Dublin market (and its surrounding counties) with the rest of the country- in the same sentence, is akin to comparing property on Mars with property in West Dublin.......

Recent trends in the Dublin market- alongside the very small recent falls- feature a large development in North County Dublin that failed to elicit more than passing interest from potential purchasers. Investors and cashbuyers- who were at one point comprising up to 70% if the market- have shrunk to less than 35% (and this is cashbuyers alone- investors are by and large ignoring the market- or actively selling into it). The length of time for sales- is increasing by the day- from a low of less than 4 weeks- up towards 7.5 weeks, and growing....... Supply- while still low- has increased- and looks set to grow rapidly- as investors look to cash out. Investors meanwhile- are moving their money into office developments in the Dublin area- in lieu of the residential market.

Thats Dublin. Cork and Galway- are a little behind Dublin- displaying similar characteristics.

The rest of the country- will follow Dublin- but far behind Cork and Galway. I'd say Cork and Galway are 2-3 months behind Dublin- but the rest of the country- is more akin to 8-9 months (or more!).

The rental market- is wholly different to the sales market- and dwindling supply (with investors pulling properties and selling them in-lieu of letting them)- may see even more startling increases in rental demands.

At the moment rental yields do not support current valuations- and unless an equalisation occurs- whether through increased supply- or falls in prices- investors are not going to feature as the normal market force (where typically they accounted for in the region of 30% of the market- with first time buyers another 40% and the remainder being people trading up or down).

The reason I see increases continuing outside of Dublin- is solely because those markets are lagging well behind the Dublin markets- not because of inherent strenght (or indeed value) in them- which to be honest I don't believe there to be.

Pay rises- which most companies are reported to be considering this year (and this is from Ibec)- will barely better the rate of inflation- so they are not going to be a driver either way.

Whatever way you look at it- Ireland is still in dire straits- and consumers are intent on paying down debt. This is known as a virtuous circle of debt- and the ECB fear that on an Eurozone basis- it could well be the reason that the entire continent is getting dragged under.

Finally- a useful yardstick of how Ireland will perform- as in, Ireland Inc.- would be to take a good look at our two dominant trading partners- The UK and The US. Both are experiencing growth- nothing spectacular- but a damn sight better than on the continent. This alone- is what is dragging us to the fore in the Eurozone- and is why we have an unnatural rosy tint to our economic performance. As soon as there is a peep from either of trouble- we are up the swanny......

I'd echo the comments from Ibec this morning- until such time as personal taxation is addressed here in Ireland- it is increasingly impossible to compensate workers- as the tax take is simply too high- and it is impossible to compensate workers on a monetary basis.

Mr. teddywinkles

The_Conductor wrote: »

To be honest with you- comparing the Dublin market (and its surrounding counties) with the rest of the country- in the same sentence, is akin to comparing property on Mars with property in West Dublin.......

Recent trends in the Dublin market- alongside the very small recent falls- feature a large development in North County Dublin that failed to elicit more than passing interest from potential purchasers. Investors and cashbuyers- who were at one point comprising up to 70% if the market- have shrunk to less than 35% (and this is cashbuyers alone- investors are by and large ignoring the market- or actively selling into it). The length of time for sales- is increasing by the day- from a low of less than 4 weeks- up towards 7.5 weeks, and growing....... Supply- while still low- has increased- and looks set to grow rapidly- as investors look to cash out. Investors meanwhile- are moving their money into office developments in the Dublin area- in lieu of the residential market.

Thats Dublin. Cork and Galway- are a little behind Dublin- displaying similar characteristics.

The rest of the country- will follow Dublin- but far behind Cork and Galway. I'd say Cork and Galway are 2-3 months behind Dublin- but the rest of the country- is more akin to 8-9 months (or more!).

The rental market- is wholly different to the sales market- and dwindling supply (with investors pulling properties and selling them in-lieu of letting them)- may see even more startling increases in rental demands.

At the moment rental yields do not support current valuations- and unless an equalisation occurs- whether through increased supply- or falls in prices- investors are not going to feature as the normal market force (where typically they accounted for in the region of 30% of the market- with first time buyers another 40% and the remainder being people trading up or down).

The reason I see increases continuing outside of Dublin- is solely because those markets are lagging well behind the Dublin markets- not because of inherent strenght (or indeed value) in them- which to be honest I don't believe there to be.

Pay rises- which most companies are reported to be considering this year (and this is from Ibec)- will barely better the rate of inflation- so they are not going to be a driver either way.

Whatever way you look at it- Ireland is still in dire straits- and consumers are intent on paying down debt. This is known as a virtuous circle of debt- and the ECB fear that on an Eurozone basis- it could well be the reason that the entire continent is getting dragged under.

Finally- a useful yardstick of how Ireland will perform- as in, Ireland Inc.- would be to take a good look at our two dominant trading partners- The UK and The US. Both are experiencing growth- nothing spectacular- but a damn sight better than on the continent. This alone- is what is dragging us to the fore in the Eurozone- and is why we have an unnatural rosy tint to our economic performance. As soon as there is a peep from either of trouble- we are up the swanny......

I'D ECHO THE COMMENTS FROM IBEC THIS MORNING- UNTIL SUCH TIME AS PERSONAL TAXATION IS ADDRESSED HERE IN IRELAND- IT IS INCREASINGLY IMPOSSIBLE TO COMPENSATE WORKERS- AS THE TAX TAKE IS SIMPLY TOO HIGH- AND IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO COMPENSATE WORKERS ON A MONETARY BASIS.

I thought I was alone on that view

yankinlk

tldr. market will increase this year from pentup demand. plenty of people have wanted to move for a very long time, and as the market has finally restarted this will finally be allowed to happen. expect 4 more years of property increases.

The_Conductor

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

I thought I was alone on that view

I have a gross marginal rate of tax of over 60%- and two young children whose childcare bill alone eats up most of my net pay (not that I regret them for a moment)- so I'm with you on this. Our taxation system here has to be one of the most regressive on the planet. There is something seriously wrong- when you'd be significantly better off on social welfare- than in gainful employment.........

The_Conductor

yankinlk wrote: »

tldr. market will increase this year from pentup demand. plenty of people have wanted to move for a very long time, and as the market has finally restarted this will finally be allowed to happen. expect 4 more years of property increases.

The fact of the matter is though- the pent-up demand is incredibly local in nature. People want to live in specific locations (think Dublin city centre, South Dublin- and Cork and Galway). New developments on the outskirts of Dublin- are proving nigh impossible to sell- people just aren't interested. There was a very high profile flop in the last few months in North County Dublin- and that was phase 1 of a development that was supposed to be 2000 houses over 5-6 phases over the next 4 years.

Pent-up-demand- yes. However, its for a very small range of high demand areas. Elsewhere- people have a 'meh' approach- who is going to pay top dollar for somewhere which has a 90 minute commute each way? It was seen as the new norm during the boom- but not anymore- its not.