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anti Islam rally

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    #812
    Grand Moff Tarkin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 862 ✭✭✭Grand Moff Tarkin


    nokia69 wrote: »
    I have, most of them were grand

    Oddly enough I found most of them are just waiting for a chance to scream racism first chance they got.


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    #813
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »
    Oddly enough I found most of them are just waiting for a chance to scream racism first chance they got.

    yeah some of them will do that

    but most of them were OK IMO


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    #814
    RobYourBuilder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭RobYourBuilder


    ireland.man wrote: »
    You're comparing an incredibly young, monolithic population of workers who were almost all given work permits to dozens of nationalities who came to Europe in a variety of ways in more stable numbers over a much longer period of time than the Irish who went to Oz in droves since 2007.

    Or perhaps we should be taking a leaf out of the Australians book? Not just us, but the whole of Europe.
    Anyway, no pressure for you if you're uncomfortable with the questions but will you be answering them?

    If you want to ask me off topic questions, take it to PM some other time.


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    #815
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    Have to say, when I still lived in Germany there where some Turks in my class. Great guys, still hear from the every now and then. Apart from them being excused from sports during Ramadan, never anything I would consider vastly different. They do have their own sense if style and identity, but after all they're from a very different place.
    What disturbed me even then, was the emergence of right wing, asshole, skinhead, sh*t for brains, knuckle dragging, criminal violent Scumbag neo Nazis. These people are cockroaches, scum and vermin.
    These people, mostly sub-intelligent and unable to get a job, would then protest about all sorts of foreigners coming in.
    Make no mistake: any kind of radical organisation, no matter their color or creed are nothing but violent criminals and scumbags that need to be wiped out. I don't care who they are, where they come from or what their arguments are.


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    #816
    ireland.man
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭ireland.man


    RobYourBuilder wrote: »
    Or perhaps we should be taking a leaf out of the Australians book? Not just us, but the whole of Europe.



    If you want to ask me off topic questions, take it to PM some other time.

    The fear of Islam is usually put down to defending what we consider to be European social values, including women's liberation and gay rights. The values a person holds while he attacks Islam is highly relevant- if I support Muslim immigration to Ireland, would you not be interested in knowing if I'm a Marxist, an Islamist, a liberal, etc?


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    #817
    ireland.man
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭ireland.man


    RobYourBuilder wrote: »
    Or perhaps we should be taking a leaf out of the Australians book? Not just us, but the whole of Europe.



    If you want to ask me off topic questions, take it to PM some other time.

    Ask any questions you want of me. Try to understand my politics and why we disagree. It's not because I'm 'pc' or brainwashed by cultural marxists, etc! I'm just surprised you're so reticent about your own value system.

    Nokia gave honest opinions about his values and his opinions seem actually very, very reasonable. I'm enjoying debating with him because you can tell he has serious consideration for his opinions and isn't trying to hide anything.


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    #818
    RobYourBuilder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭RobYourBuilder


    [QUOTE=ireland.man;93657036

    Apologies for asking too many questions but just so we can pin down what our values are so we can contrast and compare:
    • Do you think there's anything wrong with mixed race marriage in Ireland
    • Do you support gay adoption and marriage?
    • Do you support increased support and intake of Christian asylum seekers from places where they're being persecuted by Islamists like Nigeria?
    • Would you consider yourself a feminist, or support feminism?
    [/QUOTE]

    ● None of my business.

    ● Don't believe in marriage full stop. If the couple were the best candidates to care for the child, sure.

    ● No. They have another 50 plus African countries to choose from.

    ● Depends on the situation but generally no. I wouldn't consider myself a feminist.

    None of this has any relevance. But there we go.


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    #819
    ireland.man
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭ireland.man


    RobYourBuilder wrote: »
    ● None of my business.

    ● Don't believe in marriage full stop. If the couple were the best candidates to care for the child, sure.

    ● No. They have another 50 plus African countries to choose from.

    ● Depends on the situation but generally no. I wouldn't consider myself a feminist.

    None of this has any relevance. But there we go.

    Thanks for answering and I definitely do think those ideas are relevant to a debate about muslim immigration, racism, etc.

    I mean, your ideas tally well with the stance of the English Defence League which is of huge relevance (unless you disagree with them and are offended by that associated, in which case I apologise!).


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    #820
    Snake Plisken
    Registered Users Posts: 12,519 ✭✭✭✭Snake Plisken


    ireland.man wrote: »
    Thanks for answering and I definitely do think those ideas are relevant to a debate about muslim immigration, racism, etc.

    I mean, your ideas tally well with the stance of the English Defence League which is of huge relevance (unless you disagree with them and are offended by that associated, in which case I apologise!).
    And you sound like an Israel hating Sinn Fein type! I'd say I'm pretty close there right?


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    #821
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    nokia69 wrote: »
    what do you think about global warming

    It's happening and that, obviously, is bad.


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    #822
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Snake Plisken wrote: »
    And you sound like an Israel hating Sinn Finn type! I'd say I'm pretty close there right?


    Those Finnish nationalists are a dodgy lot, to be sure.


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    #823
    Grand Moff Tarkin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 862 ✭✭✭Grand Moff Tarkin


    nokia69 wrote: »
    yeah some of them will do that

    but most of them were OK IMO

    I worked with one sound chap from Librea(spell check please) who is one very happy young man considering all the hardships he has went through in life he is fully assimilated into local life and is waiting on his citizenship papers and to be honest he is more of a Irishman than most lads I know.

    I also had the misfortune to work with two lads who you would be afraid to even say hello to for fear of how they would react.


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    #824
    Donkey Oaty
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,533 ✭✭✭Donkey Oaty


    Grand Moff Tarkin wrote: »
    I worked with one sound chap from Librea(spell check please)

    If he's African, I'm guessing it's either Libya or Liberia.

    Or possibly the library.


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    #825
    BuilderPlumber
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭BuilderPlumber


    MRnotlob606 wrote: »
    The leader is a convicted drug dealer

    That's what ISIS, al Qaeda, etc. essential are. Drug dealers using terrorism hiding behind religion.


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    #826
    nokia69
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,050 ✭✭✭nokia69


    ireland.man wrote: »
    Thanks for answering and I definitely do think those ideas are relevant to a debate about muslim immigration, racism, etc.

    I mean, your ideas tally well with the stance of the English Defence League which is of huge relevance (unless you disagree with them and are offended by that associated, in which case I apologise!).

    I think you want to drop people into simple left or right labels, which we all do with most things, but I don't think this is a left/right issue

    I know life long labour party voters in the UK who agree with the EDL, and they admit that 10 or 15 years ago they would have just called the EDL racists, but living in the real world and seeing the effects of islam they can now see that multiculturalism has its limits

    the other night I was reading Gore Vidal's wiki page and I found the following quote
    A characteristic of our present chaos is the dramatic migration of tribes. They are on the move from east to west, from south to north. Liberal tradition requires that borders must always be open to those in search of safety, or even the pursuit of happiness. But now, with so many millions of people on the move, even the great-hearted are becoming edgy. Norway is large enough and empty enough to take in 40 to 50 million homeless Bengalis. If the Norwegians say that, all in all, they would rather not take them in, is this to be considered racism? I think not. It is simply self-preservation, the first law of species

    its hard to disagree with that IMO


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    #827
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,635 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    BuilderPlumber wrote: »
    That's what ISIS, al Qaeda, etc. essential are. Drug dealers using terrorism hiding behind religion.

    Ah, exactly like the IRA so.


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    #828
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »
    Ah, exactly like the IRA so.

    No.


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    #829
    RobYourBuilder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭RobYourBuilder


    ireland.man wrote: »
    The fear of Islam is usually put down to defending what we consider to be European social values, including women's liberation and gay rights. The values a person holds while he attacks Islam is highly relevant- if I support Muslim immigration to Ireland, would you not be interested in knowing if I'm a Marxist, an Islamist, a liberal, etc?

    Before we even touch on their beliefs, let's just look at their crazy unemployment rates across western and northern Europe. That's reason enough to "fear" muslim immigration. Then their crime rate and prison commitals. Again, levels well above the natives. That's before we touch on terrorism, anti western, women and homosexual attitudes and what not.

    Why would anyone support continued immigration from the Islamic world? Their numbers are only shooting up. Do you expect things to drastically improve or something?


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    #830
    Grand Moff Tarkin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 862 ✭✭✭Grand Moff Tarkin


    Donkey Oaty wrote: »
    If he's African, I'm guessing it's either Libya or Liberia.

    Or possibly the library.

    Liberia yes thank you.

    Nasty place and it would not be on a list of places to visit from the stories I have been told. At times we here in Ireland have no idea at all how lucky we really are.


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    #831
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    RobYourBuilder wrote: »
    Before we even touch on their beliefs, let's just look at their crazy unemployment rates across western and northern Europe. That's reason enough to "fear" muslim immigration. Then their crime rate and prison commitals. Again, levels well above the natives. That's before we touch on terrorism, anti western, women and homosexual attitudes and what not.

    Why would anyone support continued immigration from the Islamic world? Their numbers are only shooting up. Do you expect things to drastically improve or something?


    You obviously missed the part where the majority of German muslims are non-practicing.


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    #832
    RobYourBuilder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,541 ✭✭✭RobYourBuilder


    Yeah, you found one poll to back up your opinion. Well done.
    Most disturbing, some surveys find that the younger generation of Turkish Germans express surprising hostility toward Europe and the West. In one study, the sociologist Wilhelm Heitmeyer and his colleagues at the University of Bielefeld found that almost one-third of those polled agreed that Islam must become the state religion in every country.

    Even though they live in Europe, 56 percent declared that they should not adapt too much to Western ways, but should live by Islam. More than a third insisted that if it serves the Islamic community, they are ready to use violence against nonbelievers. Almost 40 percent said that Zionism, the European Union and the United States threaten Islam.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/14/opinion/14iht-edshore.html?_r=1
    Nearly every fourth non-German Muslim rejects integration, questions western values and tends to accept violence, according to a study commissioned by the German Interior Ministry and released late Thursday morning.

    http://m.thelocal.de/20120301/41079


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    #833
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    RobYourBuilder wrote: »
    Yeah, you found one poll to back up your opinion. Well done.
    ............

    And I see you've found some to fuel your continuing Kulturkampf. Gratz.


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    #834
    ireland.man
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭ireland.man


    Snake Plisken wrote: »
    And you sound like an Israel hating Sinn Fein type! I'd say I'm pretty close there right?

    You just suddenly appear to thank others who are doing the leg work in finding sources and writing up arguments, or you insult someone like this and then disappear again! Why don't you post an opinion instead of piggybacking on others on this thread?

    PS- I'm not a Sinn Fein but you're right about my pro-Palestinian opinions. It's amazing you can deduce from my anti-xenophobic opinions in here to conclude I'm pro-Palestinian!


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    #835
    Snake Plisken
    Registered Users Posts: 12,519 ✭✭✭✭Snake Plisken


    ireland.man wrote: »
    You just suddenly appear to thank others who are doing the leg work in finding sources and writing up arguments, or you insult someone like this and then disappear again! Why don't you post an opinion instead of piggybacking on others on this thread?

    PS- I'm not a Sinn Fein but you're right about my pro-Palestinian opinions. It's amazing you can deduce from my anti-xenophobic opinions in here to conclude I'm pro-Palestinian!

    Yeah well your pretty quick to pigeon hole a poster as being far right, by implying they are similar to the EDL! So I'll did the same with you! I'd also suspect if you replaced the word Muslim with Jew, you and the other pro-Islam SF Lefties would be all for keeping the Jews out of our country!

    As for my unpopular opinion, I think the religion of Islam and some of its followers, is a particularly restrictive religion, that is pushing further into Europe and dare anyone speak ill of it, and your classed as a racist or a bigot as has been aimed at me and others by some of your cronies on here, so I don't really post on these threads as, you get sneered at and you end up getting infractions from certain mods!
    I would also like to see more public debate on this, rather then arguing with keyboard warriors on forums like this.


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    #836
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Snake Plisken wrote: »
    Yeah well your pretty quick to pigeon hole a poster as being far right, by implying they are similar to the EDL! So I'll did the same with you! I'd also suspect if you replaced the word Muslim with Jew, you and the other pro-Islam SF Lefties would be all for keeping the Jews out of our country! .

    You'd suspect wrong.


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    #837
    ireland.man
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭ireland.man


    Snake Plisken wrote: »
    Yeah well your pretty quick to pigeon hole a poster as being far right, by implying they are similar to the EDL! So I'll did the same with you! I'd also suspect if you replaced the word Muslim with Jew, you and the other pro-Islam SF Lefties would be all for keeping the Jews out of our country!

    As for my unpopular opinion, I think the religion of Islam and some of its followers, is a particularly restrictive religion, that is pushing further into Europe and dare anyone speak ill of it, and your classed as a racist or a bigot as has been aimed at me and others by some of your cronies on here, so I don't really post on these threads as, you get sneered at and you end up getting infractions from certain mods!
    I would also like to see more public debate on this, rather then arguing with keyboard warriors on forums like this.

    EDL videos were posted here, Tommy Robinson was praised for some of his speeches, ideas very closely aligned with the EDL (even more extreme than UKIP) are promoted by a lot of the anti-Islam crowd here. Far-Right sources have been posted. Not one poster in the anti-Islam side has condemned the EDL or the far-right. So that's why I assumed most here are coming from that angle.

    You saying I or others here hate Jewish people. do you have a reason for saying that? You do know the posters who align themselves with the EDL and far-right extremists are part of an anti-Semitic movement, right? The EDL leaders are anti-Semitic. The EDL are anti-Irish in essence. The EDL are linked to Combat 18 and in turn loyalist paramilitaries.


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    #838
    Snake Plisken
    Registered Users Posts: 12,519 ✭✭✭✭Snake Plisken


    I have no interest in the EDL or even UKIP who now even want to keep Italians and Spanish out of the UK. So don't bother repeating those organizations when responding to posts.
    Also I have no time for HAMAS, which a lot of the SF supporters on here seem to have.
    I really just can't understand the rational behind a 21st century society bowing to a religion that is like something from medieval times with respect to women's rights, implementing Sharia law etc.
    Anyway that's my point of view which I'm allowed to express freely as should the German population and if 1 in 8 have similar feelings it doesn't mean they are racist Nazis.


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    #839
    ireland.man
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭ireland.man


    Here they are, the vanguard of Western civilisation! Defending our Judeo-Christian values against the Muslimic hordes:

    http://assets2.vice.com/images/galleries/meta/2013/03/05/94840-1413280772256.jpeg

    http://assets2.vice.com/images/galleries/meta/2013/03/05/94847-1413280770526.jpeg

    http://assets2.vice.com/images/galleries/meta/2014/10/14/176948-1414683812118.jpeg

    They had some time left over from defending the Enlightenment so they targeted the Irish community in Liverpool:

    http://www.newstalk.com/content/000/images/000008/8239_60_news_hub_multi_630x0.jpg


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    #840
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Snake Plisken wrote: »
    I have no interest in the EDL or even UKIP who now even want to keep Italians and Spanish out of the UK. So don't bother repeating those organizations when responding to posts.
    Also I have no time for HAMAS, which a lot of the SF supporters on here seem to have.
    I really just can't understand the rational behind a 21st century society bowing to a religion that is like something from medieval times with respect to women's rights, implementing Sharia law etc.
    Anyway that's my point of view which I'm allowed to express freely as should the German population and if 1 in 8 have similar feelings it doesn't mean they are racist Nazis.


    Could you give a few examples where that's happened?


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    #841
    ireland.man
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭ireland.man


    Snake Plisken wrote: »
    I have no interest in the EDL or even UKIP who now even want to keep Italians and Spanish out of the UK. So don't bother repeating those organizations when responding to posts.
    Also I have no time for HAMAS, which a lot of the SF supporters on here seem to have.
    I really just can't understand the rational behind a 21st century society bowing to a religion that is like something from medieval times with respect to women's rights, implementing Sharia law etc.
    Anyway that's my point of view which I'm allowed to express freely as should the German population and if 1 in 8 have similar feelings it doesn't mean they are racist Nazis.

    You can express any view but no-one will take you seriously, even those on your own side, if you utter blatant falsehoods and misdirection. You need to be more subtle! Move the goalposts slightly, when people aren't looking.

    For example, you say 'Hamas supporters', I'm betting there's not a single post you can link to showing anyone on this thread unequivocally stated support for Hamas, right?


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