Irish Open 2015 at Royal County Down

Mantis Toboggan

stockdam wrote: »

Try playing off the back sticks at RCD in a wind like today. The ball striking of those guys is way beyond a good amateur.

I know, sorry should have put in a smiley face!

Aidric

Pdoghue wrote: »

I completely disagreed with McHenry on RTE when he said afterwards that the big names would only come to the
Irish Open in the future if it was scheduled for a warmer time of the year.

He has a point but he should know that you simply cannot rely on the weather in Ireland, no matter the time of the year. The tournament date has been moved around many times at this stage.

This year was particularly miserable though so I can understand why he said what he did. Most of the pros along with commentators looked and sounded like they wanted to be anywhere else. Those conditions were winter like. Pro or Amateur, nobody wants to play in those conditions, especially on a course as difficult as Royal County Down.

Pretty forgettable tournament imo topped off with a player ranked 303 in the world rankings winning it.

FWVT

A completely numbskull comment by McHenry. Golf is an outdoor sport, so is at the mercy of the weather. You cannot reschedule an event from the end of May just because we got some April-like weather. A lot of days in April were actually a lot warmer, but that's the luck of the draw. Look at the havoc at this week's Bryon Nelson in Dallas. Should they move that now too because they got 19 inches of rain in May? No.

I remember a few years back Tiger Woods' father complained about the Open being played in Scotland in July. It was too cold and wet. So when do you expect to be able to play it? Or only play it is the south of England? Pansies

First Up

FWVT wrote: »

A completely numbskull comment by McHenry. Golf is an outdoor sport, so is at the mercy of the weather. You cannot reschedule an event from the end of May just because we got some April-like weather. A lot of days in April were actually a lot warmer, but that's the luck of the draw. Look at the havoc at this week's Bryon Nelson in Dallas. Should they move that now too because they got 19 inches of rain in May? No.

I remember a few years back Tiger Woods' father complained about the Open being played in Scotland in July. It was too cold and wet. So when do you expect to be able to play it? Or only play it is the south of England? Pansies

If you are looking at it simply as a European Tour event - that's fine, but then don't be surprised or disappointed if the winner is a journeyman. If you hope to attract "international" top names, especially Americans, you have to recognise that these may be pansies but they are pansies with other options. The only "professional" reason for them to come is as preparation for the Open Championship and that only applies if the Irish Open is on a links. Rory used his personal pulling power to attract a few (and promised a bit in return) but that is not a sustainable basis.

OK, so they got wet and delayed in Texas but they were better paid for it and they weren't wearing handwarmers and making fools of themselves in 40 mph cross winds.

slave1

Okay, don't think anyone has any negative comments on RCD so that can be put to one side (blind shots and all)...

Strong wind = bad#1, gusting at 35/40mph+ borderline unplayable at times, holding greens and putting etc
Pelting rain = bad#2, just ****e to play in
Cold = bad#3, feel lost

#1+#2+#3 = zero enjoyment, you can take #1, maybe with elements of #2 also but when you throw in #3 for the 4 days then there is no pleasure and appeal of tournament is lost as a pro as mentioned by Lowry et al yesterday in interviews and comments

slave1

As an aside it's rare a mid European Tour event has great ranking points than the usual US event and this week the Irish open had 48 points to the winner versus 46 for the US equivalent

Pdoghue

As I alluded to above, the modern pros just aren't used to playing in these conditions, so when they do, it's not surprising they have a bit of a moan.

20 or 30 years ago there were far more European Tour events played in the UK and Ireland. The Irish Open was second only to the PGA at Wentworth in terms of prestigious tournaments in Europe outside The Open. And there are far less European Tour events actually played in Europe than then.

As regards pansies with other options, for the last 2 weeks, the PGA and Irish Open had more world ranking points than the corresponding tournaments on the PGA tour.

Ideally you'd have the Irish Open just before the Open in the Scottish Open slot. Not sure if that is feasible.

Of course no one wants to play in those conditions, but you expect the pros to rise to the challenge - that's why I liked Gmacs comments last night.

As for the handwarmers, ffs..

First Up

slave1 wrote: »

As an aside it's rare a mid European Tour event has great ranking points than the usual US event and this week the Irish open had 48 points to the winner versus 46 for the US equivalent

Three times the prize money in Texas - and Fedex Cup points.

First Up

Pdoghue wrote: »

As I alluded to above, the modern pros just aren't used to playing in these conditions, so when they do, it's not surprising they have a bit of a moan.

20 or 30 years ago there were far more European Tour events played in the UK and Ireland. The Irish Open was second only to the PGA at Wentworth in terms of prestigious tournaments in Europe outside The Open. And there are far less European Tour events actually played in Europe than then.

As regards pansies with other options, for the last 2 weeks, the PGA and Irish Open had more world ranking points than the corresponding tournaments on the PGA tour.

Ideally you'd have the Irish Open just before the Open in the Scottish Open slot. Not sure if that is feasible.

Of course no one wants to play in those conditions, but you expect the pros to rise to the challenge - that's why I liked Gmacs comments last night.

As for the handwarmers, ffs..

20 or 30 years ago the Irish Open was being held on courses like Woodbrook. Golf has changed quite a bit since.

FFS all you like but if players feel the need for handwarmers, they are telling you something that the organisers need to hear.

Mantis Toboggan

First Up wrote: »

Three times the prize money in Texas - and Fedex Cup points.

Really? Wow some difference! What's wrong with the European tour?

Old diesel

Aidric wrote: »

He has a point but he should know that you simply cannot rely on the weather in Ireland, no matter the time of the year. The tournament date has been moved around many times at this stage.

This year was particularly miserable though so I can understand why he said what he did. Most of the pros along with commentators looked and sounded like they wanted to be anywhere else. Those conditions were winter like. Pro or Amateur, nobody wants to play in those conditions, especially on a course as difficult as Royal County Down.

Pretty forgettable tournament imo topped off with a player ranked 303 in the world rankings winning it.

I think a player at 303 in the world winning it is fantastic - and remember - Harrington won the Honda from a position of 297 in the world.

Pdoghue

First Up wrote: »

20 or 30 years ago the Irish Open was being held on courses like Woodbrook. Golf has changed quite a bit since.

FFS all you like but if players feel the need for handwarmers, they are telling you something that the organisers need to hear.

The Irish Open in the modern era was only held in Woodbrook once, 40 years ago in 1975.

20 or 30 years ago, you had the top players in the world winning it regularly: Seve, Langer, Faldo, Woosie, Ollie, Monty. In the 70s and 80s it was held at Portmarnock and Royal Dublin, before being moved to parkland tracks.

In fairness, the organisers can't be held responsible for the weather.

First Up

Pdoghue wrote: »

The Irish Open in the modern era was only held in Woodbrook once, 40 years ago in 1975.

20 or 30 years ago, you had the top players in the world winning it regularly: Seve, Langer, Faldo, Woosie, Ollie, Monty. In the 70s and 80s it was held at Portmarnock and Royal Dublin, before being moved to parkland tracks.

In fairness, the organisers can't be held responsible for the weather.

You are missing the point. 20 or 30 years ago, you had the top players entering it. Now you don't, except for McIlroy and those he personally persuaded. If you want the top players back, you need to make it as attractive as possible for them and that includes the conditions. Of course you can't control the weather but you can control the date.

And by the way, it was played at Woodbrook every year between 1967 and 1975

Mantis Toboggan

Don't think moving the event will make any difference weather wise. May/June are often the best months each year. Statistically April is the driest month each year. We'll have to roof some of these courses.

MikeSD

The simple fact is, most of the top European players play the majority of their golf in America now. The only time that we can definitely expect to see them play in Europe is at Wentworth, the Scottish Open (week before The British Open), and at their respective national opens such as Garcia playing in the Spanish Open etc. The only reason we got so many big names this year was simply because McIlroy is now capable of drawing the top names to whatever he is involved in. We'll only ever get big names consistently at the Irish Open if it is played in the week prior to The British Open. I'd say that could be very difficult to dislodge from Scotland though.

FixdePitchmark

What sort of comments were made lads and by who ?

I'd be into my extreme links conditions.

But not sure it makes for great viewing for the average viewer. Or even a golf fan.

You could see how they just couldn't putt and most fans love watching low scores.

It was just a case of very bad luck.

Will be interesting how things go next.

The call for a links course for years was answered.

But . Could be a case of be careful what you wish for.

stockdam

Put enough prize money up and the big names will come. That won't happen though.

First Up

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

What sort of comments were made lads and by who ?

I'd be into my extreme links conditions.

But not sure it makes for great viewing for the average viewer. Or even a golf fan.

You could see how they just couldn't putt and most fans love watching low scores.

It was just a case of very bad luck.

Will be interesting how things go next.

The call for a links course for years was answered.

But . Could be a case of be careful what you wish for.

I think real golf fans enjoy watching how good players cope with the challenge and I have no objection to seeing how top pros deal with the unpredictability and mental challenge of links - or a bit of wind (essential on links). I much prefer that to the typical US event where they win with 22 under and drive it 350 on manicured fairways, which is why the Open Championship is my favourite event by some distance.

But you can still have those challenges without hailstones and handwarmers in what is supposed to be summer.

FixdePitchmark

stockdam wrote: »

Put enough prize money up and the big names will come. That won't happen though.

Yes. Prize money improved.

But still too low.

As others have said . The Rory approach a great start . Perhaps a few more years of that Needed.

First Up

stockdam wrote: »

Put enough prize money up and the big names will come. That won't happen though.

That is the point. Without a big prize fund you need other reasons. A lot of golfers enjoy the Irish experience - think of the publicity we got over the years from the likes of Watson, O'Meara, Payne Stewart and more. But rewarding them by punishing and embarrassing them in crap weather doesn't help.

OffalyMedic

https://plus.google.com/photos/117683858622464645102/albums/6155338239630721585?authkey=COnNkeCa3sOrTQ

Some of my photos from RCD at the weekend! Loved every minute of it and cant wait for next year already.

just about warmed up now

FWVT

These big names were moaning while they knew full well that had they been playing the Byron Nelson this week they would have been up to their oxters in mud, with long delays, teeing off a muddy fairway on a long par-4 reduced to a 104-yrd par 3, and lifting and dropping on every shot. That is not late-May US PGA tour week-in-week-out weather, and neither was this week's in Co. Down. Had it been played any other week there would have been no complaints.

Whatever happened to these guys loving golf for the tradition and natural challenge? The US guys are spoilt every week playing under blue skies and calm winds. As I said, pansies.

FixdePitchmark

But what is a "real golf fan".

We maybe have to accept a successful event will not just target these "real.....".

I've been to amateur elite events.

And so called real golf fans are few and far between.

First Up

FWVT wrote: »

These big names were moaning while they knew full well that had they been playing the Byron Nelson this week they would have been up to their oxters in mud, with long delays, teeing off a muddy fairway on a long par-4 reduced to a 104-yrd par 3, and lifting and dropping on every shot. That is not late-May US PGA tour week-in-week-out weather, and neither was this week's in Co. Down. Had it been played any other week there would have been no complaints.

Whatever happened to these guys loving golf for the tradition and natural challenge? The US guys are spoilt every week playing under blue skies and calm winds. As I said, pansies.

Slag them all you want but without them you don't get the ranking points, the international coverage, the sponsors, or the prize money so the vicious circle continues. We have a unique opportunity while McIroy is in his pomp to attract players who would not otherwise come. Lets make the most of it. RCD can be made plenty tough in late June or July.

Pdoghue

FWVT wrote: »

Whatever happened to these guys loving golf for the tradition and natural challenge? The US guys are spoilt every week playing under blue skies and calm winds. As I said, pansies.

Spot on.

As has been said above, if the prize money is high enough, the players will flock, regardless of the weather.

But the big sponsors just aren't there in mainland Europe it seems.

FWVT

And when you think of it, playing in the US tour (albeit more difficult to get onto) is a lot easier and cheaper for a struggling golfer as travelling around to tournaments involves only internal flights, whereas the "European" tour has so many events in Asia, South Africa and Australia. Not easy for a journeyman golfer trying to make a wage, and when you do win someone in the US still earns at least 3-4 times more for the same week's work and a lot less cost.

bustercherry

yawnnnn.....

They played it one of the best links in the world and still people are giving out :roll eyes:

What next then? Will we play it on indoor simulators as it seems people can't make up their minds... No parkland, no links now it seems but I thought we were supposed to be showcasing Ireland?

As for the idiotic comments about them being pansies for wearing gloves; it was fcuking baltic. I play golf (ski/cycle/etc... as well) all through the winter and had the full winter wardrobe on me but still have never been as cold on a golf course.

stockdam

The guys who played all 4 rounds were only guaranteed €5,500 which isn't a lot after expenses. In fact it wouldn't cover first class flights etc. Not many people would travel for that sort of money if they had an alternative. Granted that the top 6 or so got a good purse.

The entrance fees were quite low and under 16s were free so that may have to go up to get more revenue to fund the higher prize money.

I was happy that I got good value for my £25.

mickmackey1

The only consolation is - today's conditions are much worse

dvemail

Can we not look at the positives of the week?
48 world ranking points to the winner compared to 26 last year. Increased prize fund from €2m to €2.5m.
Sure Rory pulled a lot of strings to bring the top players, but bar some of the bigger tournaments worldwide, all top pro's need some "convincing" to play certain events. The Middle East throw money at players, Ireland can't afford to do that.

The Golf Channel brought over their own cameras to broadcast the event to America. This basically never happens except for the Open. We now have a title sponsor in Dubai Duty Free, they should help give some stability, and with the increased TV Coverage more sponsors will arrive next year.

The European Tour have been open to the idea of doing a links swing, but they couldn't justify putting a struggling Irish Open into a prime summer slot a week or two before the Open. Now with more corporate backers on board it may become a reality over the next few years.