IW/Anything Water Related-Warning in OP

AboutaWeekAgo

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Both really. Yes the diversion of general tax revenue to water services will stop so you will not be paying that way.
And yes, we will be paying double. Which is good news since it will bring the payment up to the correct level for a good sustainable service rather than the underfunded infrastructure the current system was only half funding. What you will pay over the next ten years is also paying for what you didnt pay over the last 30 years.

Paying double is good news?? I don't have a penny left to me name at the end of the week for food let alone any extra to pay double taxes.

Also, I haven't been alive for 30 years, I'm a bit away from that yet thankfully so I don't think all of those back payments I apparently owe apply

masculinist

BoatMad wrote: »

There is a current budget deficit, THAT means , you don't pay enough motor tax, income tax, fire tax or whatever


I mean where have you been in the least 5 years

No. It means those who caused the biggest problems don't pay enough tax [ or with prison time, in fact they have been rewarded with pensions, quango jobs , promotions and things which would turn the stomach of anyone with morals] while those who worked their asses off pay it all.

I mean where have you been in the last 5 years

dubrov

Streetwalker wrote:

So it's okay if they don't pay tax then?

Of course not but we live in the real world.

SaveOurLyric

BoatMad wrote: »

They dont actually make billions of profit in ireland , they play a legal transfer pricing game.

The country actually loosing billions in tax is the USA, not us.

This is the thing. You are a winner on the 1% tax thing Gringo. Dont complain about it. Just hang on to it for a long as possible.

BoatMad

dav3 wrote: »

Oh dear, you're not so naive as to think all this extra revenue will be put into infrastructure repairs are you?

If you take the tax spend as a whole, a huge percentage is consumed by SW and Health. The next biggest percentage is public sector wages.

I don't see your leftie friends, suggesting massive wage cuts in the public sector, or closing hospitals, simply so you can not pay for your water.

Banjo String

BoatMad wrote: »

There is a current budget deficit, THAT means , you don't pay enough motor tax, income tax, fire tax or whatever


I mean where have you been in the least 5 years

Or it might mean were paying more than enough, but it is being, and has been misspent and squandered by this and previous govts for years now.

Streetwalker

MouseTail wrote: »

It was.

It is right now. 400 people turned up tonight in Sligo on a wet cold windy night to show their disgust at the establishment. They should be worried because people have had enough.

SaveOurLyric

AboutaWeekAgo wrote: »

Paying double is good news?? I don't have a penny left to me name at the end of the week for food let alone any extra to pay double taxes.

Also, I haven't been alive for 30 years, I'm a bit away from that yet thankfully so I don't think all of those back payments I apparently owe apply

Not you personally. But the country. As a taxpayer, that unfortunately means you gotta pay the bills for the past - non one else will.

donvito99

Banjo String wrote: »

What does it say in the constitution about not paying Irish Water?

If you re read my reply and understand what I was referring to you'd agree with me that the Government of the day and the state has the right to levy taxes and punish those proportionately for failing to do so.

EDIT: Would also agree that Varadkar's performance was good. More of him please, less of Burton and Kenny. They're weak.

Streetwalker

BoatMad wrote: »

yes , uptil about Thursday

The sly governments tactics are making the anger worse . You really haven't a clue have you.

Streetwalker

donvito99 wrote: »

If you re read my reply and understand what I was referring to you'd agree with me that the Government of the day and the state has the right to levy taxes and punish those proportionately for failing to do so.

It's a tax now is it? Thought it was a charge?

Streetwalker

dubrov wrote: »

Of course not but we live in the real world.

And in my world I pay already for water so f uc k them

SaveOurLyric

Banjo String wrote: »

Or it might mean were paying more than enough, but it is being, and has been misspent and squandered by this and previous govts for years now.

A government representing you. Misspending it on you. And squandering it on you. So only yourself to blame now that its tme to pay the bill.

donvito99

Banjo String wrote: »

Or it might mean were paying more than enough, but it is being, and has been misspent and squandered by this and previous govts for years now.

So you want cuts? yeah, cause cuts to the Department of Cronyism will deliver €billions in savings.

Gringo180

BoatMad wrote: »

They dont actually make billions of profit in ireland , they play a legal transfer pricing game.

The country actually loosing billions in tax is the USA, not us.

What about Google only paying 27 million in taxes on 17 billion in revenue?

I don't care if they create jobs, its just not fair to protect multi billion pound corporations like this country does, especially when the working class are getting hit with charge after charge.

gandalf

BoatMad wrote: »

You don't get it do you, the fact is you ar'nt already paying for it, the infrastructure is collapsing.

No I do get it. We are paying for it. The people who have been tasked with running it have not done their jobs. Now some of those very same people are the upper management of Irish Water and the people who will be carrying out these repairs are the same workers who couldn't do the jobs for the councils.

I don't have faith in them to carry out this work with the current setup of IW..

yes, but the monies here are not the problem,( they are small in comparison) the narrow tax base is.

Yes that is an issue. A bigger issue is the whole cost to run the PS. This has not been addressed at all. That is where this Government should have dedicated all their resources. Sort out the cost of running the Government, it benifits by lowering the cost of living, the cost to business and then you can look at widening the tax base and therefore ensure that there is a better tax stream for the country as a whole.

Introduce another tax without any real reform is just continuing on the same old bollix that got us in this mess in the first place.

To be honest so what, its not like the semi states don't charge the arse of us anyway, I couldn't care less. At least a private company wouldn't be shackled with the nonsense that is all these CC workers

If we had a choice I would agree with you 100%. However giving a Private company a complete and utter monopoly over a resource like water would be a recipe for disaster. Couple this with very weak any consumer regulators and we will be paying a hell of a lot more for our water in future if IW was owned privately.

Yes, but there will always be some waste, its a complicated task to balance.

Yes but there is no balance at all. No meaningful work has occured on the wastage in the delivery of PS. Now we have a situation where another "HSE" has been created to suck up more of our resources. I disagree with this totally.

Again you don't get it, there is a budget deficit, the taxes collected DO NOT pay for the system the country is running. one way or the other , if you want those systems , you will have to pay for it

The is no free lunch, which you seem to ignore.

I think we are closer on our opinions that you think. I just feel it is time to tackle the costs in running the PS aggressively before we try and pile more taxes onto the squeezed classes. The day of the job for life is over, it is time to push this mantra into the PS.

I agree totally with consumption based taxes. Motor tax should be collected at source by adding a cost to the price of fuel. You could then remove the cost of having a fully populated staff dedicated in it's collection, no more IT systems to refresh, no more software to update and purchase, no more office space to rent.

Tinkersbell

Red Pepper wrote: »

He's probably the best and most honest politician Fine Gael have. He will be a future leader of FG.

The FG machine will knock the honesty out of him soon enough.
Party first everything else second.
Don't question Dear Leader Kenny.

SaveOurLyric

donvito99 wrote: »

EDIT: Would also agree that Varadkar's performance was good. More of him please, less of Burton and Kenny. They're weak.

Agree. Alan Kelly has impressed my also though. I wasnt really aware of him until he got this gig, but doing very well after having to walk out onto a sticky wicket.

The_Valeyard

The country is a tinderbox waiting to explode. 5 years of pent up anger and rage.

Both sides need to be careful before that match is lit.

Banjo String

donvito99 wrote: »

If you re read my reply and understand what I was referring to you'd agree with me that the Government of the day and the state has the right to levy taxes and punish those proportionately for failing to do so.

EDIT: Would also agree that Varadkar's performance was good. More of him please, less of Burton and Kenny. They're weak.

I did read it, several times. Still looks to me though that you're Implying that the government have some right to penalise him for refusing to pay a bill from Irish Water, and they have legislation enshrined in the Constitution in reference to it.

Streetwalker wrote: »

If they want to pay that's their right. It's my right to not pay.

donvito99 wrote: »

And conversely it's the governments right to penalise you not doing so. Says so right there in the Constitution.

omega man

Streetwalker wrote: »

So it's okay if they don't pay tax then?

I never said that. They do pay tax though but yes probably not their fair share. The alternative would see them set up elsewhere and thousands of irish people would lose quality jobs.

donvito99

The_Valeyard wrote: »

The country is a tinderbox waiting to explode. 5 years of pent up anger and rage.

Both sides need to be careful before that match is lit.

The country is about as flammable as a damp rag. You flatter yourself and your movement.

BoatMad

masculinist wrote: »

No. It means those who caused the biggest problems don't pay enough tax [ or with prison time, in fact they have been rewarded with pensions, quango jobs , promotions and things which would turn the stomach of anyone with morals] while those who worked their asses off pay it all.

I mean where have you been in the last 5 years

The tax the rich nonsense, is all very well. Its used constantly by the left to somehow make the figures work.

however

(a) The moderately rich, seem to be in some peoples eyes , those with combined incomes of over 100,000. That is two married A post teachers, etc etc. These people already pay very high levels of tax.

(b) If you take the revenue figures, the percentage of taxpayers earning over that is actually quite small. Hence even if you took every red cent off them, you can't generate enough revenue.

(c) If you are taking about fat pensions and quangos, fundamentally you are taking about public servants or semi-state servants, all of whom have high salaries in comparison with other European states, big protected pensions, unlike most private sector workers, etc etc. Yes we could save millions and millions by tackling sector and semi-state excesses. But I see no Leftie on that message.


Much as you might like to break the few people that you seem to hate, either they will leave the state and take their money with then ( like O;brien or Bono) or ultimately theres simply not enough money from them to solve the problem

This is always why governments turn to the vast majority of middle classes to tax , this is why pay-unrelated tax is so popular like LPT etc, IT generates tax revenue like no other.


Leave the so -called vengeance stuff for the movies. It solves nothing, jailing patrick neary isn't going to solve the current budget deficit.

yipeeeee

Do people really think Joan and enda are enjoying knowing their hated.

Their making tough decisions to get this country back running.

I believe people actually think they wake up trying to think of ways to not get themselves voted back in the next election.

They know this has basically ended their stay of been in government, so why are they persisting?

masculinist

omega man wrote: »

They do pay tax though but yes probably not their fair share. The alternative would see them set up elsewhere and thousands of irish people would lose quality jobs.

Theres still loads of shyte going on which can be cut out without costing one FDI job .Irish Water is just the most recent example of where the taxpayers money is being squandered with bonuses for sitting on your arse and a few pensions in case its too hard to survive on just one. Poor dears. The price of caviar must have rocketed since the Russian sanctions.
The government and Dinnys Nom Domicile Bailed out Media corp has brainwashed people into believing that its either the backs of ordinary PAYE workers or else its the backs of the FDI corporations. That is nonsense. We can have that debate once we cut out the shyte, corruption and pure robbery endemic in the system. Kenny was elected for no more quangos - Liebour was elected for no water tax. Moan face and Kenny better suck it up. Its time to leave Leinster House as failures.

The_Valeyard

donvito99 wrote: »

The country is about as flammable as a damp rag. You flatter yourself and your movement.

My movement? Do tell me how I am involved or leading a movement. Your post is about as accurate as Irish Waters General knowledge.

SaveOurLyric

The_Valeyard wrote: »

The country is a tinderbox waiting to explode. 5 years of pent up anger and rage.

Both sides need to be careful before that match is lit.

Ahhhh, the ever present dream of the revolutionary. But it never does explode does it ? Maybe its not a tinderbox at all....

donvito99

yipeeeee wrote: »

So people really think Joan and end a are enjoying knowing their hated.

Their making tough decisions to get this country back running.

I believe people actually think they wake up trying to think of ways to not get themselves voted back in the next election.

They know this has basically ended their stay of been in government.

There are people like me who appreciate the job they've done in turning the place around in 4 years to a point where we can start chipping away at the debt at the same time as incrementally increasing spending on public services.

They won't be in government (but I'll be reelecting them as is), but they'll leave SF/FF to do a lot more than if the reverse had happened (imagine Ireland today had we taken the extreme route in 2010 and defaulted - no one else's done it, for a reason), I fear they'll squander it and show their true colours, at least we've seen FG/Lab's.

Tony EH

BoatMad wrote: »

I want IW disbanded, but I understand a large proportion of the fees actually went to the IT companies in designing and installing the new computerised billing systems.

It should be mentioned that Bord Gais, which won the contract to manage IW, did so mainly on the basis that its IT systems had the spare capacity and complexity to handle the billing systems. Funnily once they won the contract, the same said IT systems suddenly were not up to the job and millions hence was spent ( in a hurry ) ,

That's only the first step in the Irish Water wasteathon.

My name is URL

yipeeeee wrote: »

I believe people actually think they wake up trying to think of ways to not get themselves voted back in the next election.

lol. Do you honestly believe either of them intend or even want to be reelected?

They know this has basically ended their stay of been in government, so why are they persisting?

They want their full pensions, and nobody else in either party want to take the helm in such choppy waters.