IW/Anything Water Related-Warning in OP

shinzon

keithclancy wrote: »

Although if we left it the way you want it
At least this way I (and other cross border workers) pay something for it.

Where have I ever said I want it left the way it is, oh thats right never ill repeat again a progressive tax system is based on your ability to pay, everyone pays something depending on there means the further up the scale you go the more you pay, it protects the vulnerable yet still allows them to contribute and stops them sliding further into poverty

Shin

Daith

shinzon wrote: »

Where have I ever said I want it left the way it is, oh thats right never ill repeat again a progressive tax system is based on your ability to pay, everyone pays something depending on there means the further up the scale you go the more you pay, it protects the vulnerable yet still allows them to contribute and stops them sliding further into poverty

Shin

If they're not paying tax how are they contributing? Unless you mean that by buying a can of coke they're contributing?

Basing something on tax doesn't equate a fair system.

ROCKMAN

TheChizler wrote: »

Where's that figure coming from? Roughly speaking a four person family might approach that €800 if they weren't particularly good at conserving water and there was no subsidy (€850,000,000 cost for domestic water/4.7 M population *4 person family = €723, roughly), but why would it go so far above that? Granted there's a small economy of scale that will be lost if people start conserving water, but the cost should drop overall, is it still costs less to process less water.

Don't forget the plan is to borrow off balance sheet ,Which will be figures in the billions if we are to believe what the government says is required to fix the system ,
So when these loans and the interest is passed on to the customers. God only knows what sizes of bills we could be talking about.

keithclancy

shinzon wrote: »

Where have I ever said I want it left the way it is, oh thats right never ill repeat again a progressive tax system is based on your ability to pay, everyone pays something depending on there means the further up the scale you go the more you pay, it protects the vulnerable yet still allows them to contribute and stops them sliding further into poverty

Shin

But I pay no Tax in Ireland, so I would be gainfully employed and getting free water ?

How is that fair ?

*btw I have been on the dole before, saying its good for your mental health is interesting ... please go on ..

TheChizler

shinzon wrote: »

As with everything the price rises once the cap is lifted and it will be lifted IW will going to the cer as often as legally possible and saying Sir Please can we have some more which will be duly granted as always

Don't be fooled by the whole water will be at affordable prices guff, the minute the eyes off the ball up and up it will go, I think everyones so busy defending the indefensible no ones actually sat down and thought of the number that they say I cant pay this charge, which no one has still answered me btw

Shin

But do you have any evidence for this? There were were many calls for evidence a few pages back to prove a negative essentially, that people wouldn't continue to pay twice for the same thing from income tax, it would be nice if you could respond with evidence for your claim.

The CER need very compelling reasons to allow rates to be raised, fuel crises, poor oil production etc. They can't duly grant every request.

shinzon

Daith wrote: »

If they're not paying tax how are they contributing? Unless you mean that by buying a can of coke they're contributing?

Basing something on tax doesn't equate a fair system.

And basing something that pushes people further into poverty isnt either btw, so lets break it down slowly as you don't seem to understand it very well

Person gets dole or low paid worker gets his wages, person pays his contribution by oh look you thats money could swear its money have to look again yup definitely money to the charges where it doesn't impact his other bills or his basic quality of life you know food clothing that sort of thing and as you go up the social divide you pay more

Get it now ?

Shin

Tony EH

TheChizler wrote: »

The CER need very compelling reasons to allow rates to be raised, fuel crises, poor oil production etc. They can't duly grant every request.

HA HA.

You're new here aren't you.

:pac:

Daith

shinzon wrote: »

Person gets dole or low paid worker gets his wages, person pays his contribution by oh look you thats money could swear its money have to look again yup definitely money to the charges where it doesn't impact his other bills or his basic quality of life you know food clothing that sort of thing and as you go up the social divide you pay more

Get it now ?

Shin

Yes they don't want to pay water bills. I'm not sure why water is treated lesser than other bills or isn't a basic quality of life? What other bills would you need to pay before water?

shinzon wrote: »

everyone pays something depending on there means

You did say they would still be contributing based on your fairy tale scheme but they don't seem to be contributing in your example here?

keithclancy

shinzon wrote: »

And basing something that pushes people further into poverty isnt either btw, so lets break it down slowly as you don't seem to understand it very well

Person gets dole or low paid worker gets his wages, person pays his contribution by oh look you thats money could swear its money have to look again yup definitely money to the charges where it doesn't impact his other bills or his basic quality of life you know food clothing that sort of thing and as you go up the social divide you pay more

Get it now ?

Shin

So person on Dole on Public Water system pays nothing
Person on Dole paying for their own Water Scheme gets that taken out of their dole money
Irish Tax payer on Public Water scheme pays for water in PAYE
Irish Tax payer on group water scheme pays twice for their own water and for everyone elses water on the public water scheme.
People who pay into a tax system outside of Ireland (there's lots of them) pay nothing

Please explain to me how that is a fair and adequate system.

shinzon

TheChizler wrote: »

The CER need very compelling reasons to allow rates to be raised, fuel crises, poor oil production etc. They can't duly grant every request.

Gas and electricity prices are always rising and are always granted, if IW is to be classed as a utility now they can just use the same reasoning they do and the price will rise. No matter what happens IW is a for profit company and prices will rise regardless of any aspirational notions that it wont.

Its a revenue generating entity its sole purpose is to make money to invest in infrastructure (supposedly) so in years to come prices will have to rise to offset the cost

Shin

shinzon

keithclancy wrote: »

So person on Dole on Public Water system pays nothing
Person on Dole paying for their own Water Scheme gets that taken out of their dole money
Irish Tax payer on Public Water scheme pays for water in PAYE
Irish Tax payer on group water scheme pays twice for their own water and for everyone elses water on the public water scheme.
People who pay into a tax system outside of Ireland (there's lots of them) pay nothing

Please explain to me how that is a fair an adequate system.

Are you blind or something re-read my post, everyone pays I never said anywhere on my post that no one on the dole pays nothing, nor have I even mentioned group water schemes.

Read my posts and be a bit more informed before posting in future

Shin

Daith

shinzon wrote: »

Are you blind or something re-read my post, everyone pays I never said anywhere on my post that no one on the dole pays nothing,

You did say that. They only pay if they if it doesn't impact them. What a life!

shinzon wrote: »

Person gets dole or low paid worker gets his wages, person pays his contribution by oh look you thats money could swear its money have to look again yup definitely money to the charges where it doesn't impact his other bills or his basic quality of life you know food clothing that sort of thing

falan

falan wrote:

I doubt at any point she thought she was going to die. besides she probably had loads of room to kick back and relax. It wasn't the terrorism described by some mainstream media and believed by some idiots.

sorry this was my reply to little chucullains question. There is no proof of some of the other claims of theft and assaults.

keithclancy

shinzon wrote: »

Are you blind or something re-read my post, everyone pays I never said anywhere on my post that no one on the dole pays nothing, nor have I even mentioned group water schemes.

Read my posts and be a bit more informed before posting in future

Shin

Well if that is the case, then please sum up what system you would put in place that would be fair and equitable for all using the service to contribute to the service equally.

Going Forward

Barely There wrote: »

Any shortfall in water funding caused by an abolition of direct charging for water will be made up by an increase in income tax.

If you are for the abolition of water charges, you are also for an equivalent increase in income tax.

Them's the facts.

The only people who benefit from the abolition of water charges are those who don't now, and have no intention of ever working.

There's a few of them in this thread I'd wager.

There's another alternative, scrap the proposed tax CUTS hinted at (in advance of the next election) and don't reinstate any SW Christmas bonuses.

shinzon

Daith wrote: »

You did say that. They only pay if they if it doesn't impact them. What a life!

Stop twisting what I said to your own agenda, they still contribute something so long as it doesn't impact other bills or quality of life, is not the same as they pay feck all they still pay and well you 2 know thats exactly what I meant

Shin

Daith

shinzon wrote: »

Stop twisting what I said to your own agenda, they still contribute something so long as it doesn't impact other bills or quality of life, is not the same as they pay pay feck all they still pay and well you 2 know thats exactly what I meant

Shin

I'm not twisting your words. If they feel IW impacts them they don't pay. That's exactly what your saying.

Also if IW doesn't exist and people who don't pay income tax want to pay for water, how do they do it? Who decides how much they should pay? Do they just pick a number?

shinzon

keithclancy wrote: »

Well if that is the case, then please sum up what system you would put in place that would be fair and equitable for all using the service to contribute to the service equally.

Eh im sorry thats what I have been doing the last 2 or 3 pages im not summing it up again go read the posts

Shin

Daith

shinzon wrote: »

Eh im sorry thats what I have been doing the last 2 or 3 pages im not summing it up again go read the posts

Shin

People will pay if they feel like it apparently sums up your system.

shinzon

Daith wrote: »

I'm not twisting your words. If they feel IW impacts them they don't pay. That's exactly what your saying.

Also if IW doesn't exist and people who don't pay income tax want to pay for water, how do they do it?

Seriously I have no idea what your on about, under progressive taxation everyone pays under ability to pay its as simple as that you can twist it into whatever imaginary thought you think I was making

but ill say it again everyone pays

Shin

shinzon

Daith wrote: »

People will pay if they feel like it apparently sums up your system.

Again not even close I like that you have a one track mind though jump on a thing to twist it to whatever you want it to be when it isn't even in the ballpark of what I was saying

but go ahead keep digging that hole

Shin

Daith

shinzon wrote: »

Seriously I have no idea what your on about, under progressive taxation everyone pays under ability to pay its as simple as that you can twist it into whatever imaginary thought you think I was making

but ill say it again everyone pays

Shin

If they don't pay income tax how do they pay? How much are they charged? Who they pay it to? How is it collected?

shinzon wrote: »

they still contribute something so long as it doesn't impact other bills or quality of life

Isn't the same as everyone pays. No need to twist your words.

gladrags

Barely There wrote: »

Ahh - it's the 'why can't someone else pay for it' argument so beloved of the Shinners and the other Looney Left Parties

No

There is already a group of 12 Eu countries,set up earlier this year,with the purpose to levy the banks,as reparation for the financial crash,and damage done.

Noonan decllined to join and levy the Irish banks.

Given the widespread effects on this country,a levy makes sense.

They were bailed out by the taxpayer.

You seem bereft of any alternitaves,other than taxing ordinary people.

It is as if you enjoy it.

Valetta

gladrags wrote: »

No

There is already a group of 12 Eu countries,set up earlier this year,with the purpose to levy the banks,as reparation for the financial crash,and damage done.

Noonan decllined to join and levy the Irish banks.

Given the widespread effects on this country,a levy makes sense.

They were bailed out by the taxpayer.

You seem bereft of any alternitaves,other than taxing ordinary people.

It is as if you enjoy it.

http://www.independent.ie/business/budget/banks-face-450m-levy-over-next-three-years-29662920.html

shinzon

Daith wrote: »

If they don't pay income tax how do they pay? How much are they charged? Who they pay it to? How is it collected?
.

money is stopped from the dole payment recycled back through the system
to IW as for charges etc etc who knows, because nobody has had the balls to actually implement it in practice except maybe in the form of the USC

People were asking for alternatives to the water charges in this thread I gave one that would work, it would have to be implemented and charges set by the government of the day.

Shin

shinzon

Daith wrote: »

Isn't the same as everyone pays. No need to twist your words.

Fine see what ye want to see if it makes you even a little happy in your life you damn well know thats not what I meant but go ahead knock yourself out

Shin

gladrags

Valetta wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/business/budget/banks-face-450m-levy-over-next-three-years-29662920.html

I am aware of this levy.

It covers all banks,national and international, 450m every three years,it is a drop in the ocean.

The banks can recoup the losses.

I am reffering to the Financial Transaction tax.

"The implementation of a Europe-wide Financial Transaction Tax would generate massive revenue, which could be spent on progressive policies such as social, global and environmental projects against climate change and would therefore benefit everyone. Hence, even an extremely low tax rate of 0.05% would generate considerable and urgently needed extra revenue of up to € 250 billion per year. Especially during the current financial crisis a bigger financial scope could be sued to fight against poverty and unemployment in Europe.

Who has to pay?

Citizens should not have to foot the bill when the failures of the financial institutions lead to economic and financial crises. The Financial Transaction Tax would ensure that the speculators who caused the crisis will finally contribute their share."

Tinkersbell

Barely There wrote: »

The only people who benefit from the abolition of water charges are those who don't now, and have no intention of ever working.

There's a few of them in this thread I'd wager.

There's a lot of pro water taxer's able to spend all day during the working week telling others to pay up ok....

Tinkersbell

omega666 wrote: »

Where do you think the people who don't work get the money to pay for all the above. You guessed it. The PAYE worker.

Are all you pre water tax lads of the opinion that PAYE workers pay for everything?
Seriously?

Tinkersbell

Tell you what, reading the last few pages of this it's obvious it's descended into a greater farce than it was already.

The pro taxers will be having a pop at the 'unmarried mothers' getting their 'mickey money' next....

What a joke.