IW/Anything Water Related-Warning in OP

gladrags

Could not happen here...

"When Water Becomes A Vehicle For Profit

In recent years “privatization” has become an economic theology in Latin America, driven by a set of commandments written by the U.S., and the U.S.-dominated lenders, the World Bank and International Monetary Fund. The commandments are simple. Thou shalt sell your public enterprises to private corporations and investors, almost always from abroad. Thou shalt allow those new owners to do what they will with prices, wages and products. In exchange, supposedly, those businesses will receive a fresh transfusion of foreign capital (and the IMF and World Bank won’t cut off your international loans). Bolivia’s most recent governments have been very obedient to these foreign commandments, selling off everything from the national airline to the electricity system.

But then there was water. Last year the Bolivian government sold off Cochabamba’s public water system to a pool of British-led investors who promised to pour millions of new dollars into expansion and improvement. Last month the owners raised up their new signs (“Aguas de Tunari”) on all their facilities and also raised up something else: water prices, in many cases by more than double. Our own water bill, for example, leapt from $12 per month in December to nearly $30 in January. Similar increases hit almost everyone we know.

By U.S. standards that may not be much, but for the many Bolivian families who often earn as little as $100 per month, these increases were catastrophic. Cochabambinos, who had paid scant attention to the deal when it was being worked out behind closed doors, were sent into shock and into action.

In mid-January a four-day “paro civico” (general strike) over the water price hikes left the city at a total standstill – no cars, no buses, no air flights or bus transport in or out of the city. It was the kind of action that can only happen with broad popular support and it culminated in a mass march to the city’s central plaza as thousands of angry water users, urban and rural, gathered and chanted just outside the windows of the government offices where protest leaders and officials were negotiating. Some of those in the talks were reportedly worried that the crowd might break down the door if they didn’t emerge with some acceptable agreement. In the end what they agreed to was time, to talk more."

From Democracy Centre.

BoatMad

Red Pepper wrote: »

BoatMad, I found this response very insightful and I have been mulling over it.I think for the most part you are right.

However I do think things are changing as time goes by. Slowly but surely. For one thing, our young people seem to be less consumed by our colonial past and our "civil war" politics and even our famine victim complex. Our young people are full of confidence and well informed and well able to communicate. They look to the future instead of the past. It was great to see all the young people and children at the peaceful protests nationwide. I dont remember any parents out protesting about anything in the 70s and 80s when I was growing up (unless they were on strike). The lesson to the young people is not to put up with perceived injustices and cronyism and that the government will climb down in the face of people power.

I don't know if you are saying we cant or wont change our selfish ways or general outlook or whether it's better the devil you know in terms of FG and Labour but I think the next generation will create a fairer society.
I actually think we first need to get beyond the 2016 celebrations. I am not sentimental or nationalistic and I am not so sure we have achieved much in the past 100 years especially given the amount of hurt and pain that the Roman church inflicted on our people but we certainly have scope for a new beginning. I hope history will show that these protest marches sparked that new beginning.

Thank you for your analysis, we can only hope as the next generation pull away from the past , that things will slowly improve

Pocoyo

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/td-under-scrutiny-as-10-people-face-arrest-over-role-in-violent-protests-30771604.html

Ah i see the government is trying to start a riot Paul Murphy TD may be arrested also.

BoatMad

Red Pepper wrote: »

Yeah they can spend it on the 2000 people they don't need or bonuses for retired CoCo managers.

Fine Gael’s Fergus O’Dowd, who helped set up Irish Water, claimed yesterday it is carrying 2,000 staff that are simply not needed.
The former minister added: “I think it’s time for heads to roll at Irish Water.
“They have failed utterly in their mission. Their mission has not been accomplished. It’s a nightmare situation.
.
.
And he believes there may be up to 2,000 staff at the new company with little or no work to do – a major factor that will drive up costs.”

Why do we need to keep repeating this shít to some of you people??

I don't theres a person here that support IW ( the company , in its current form) thats somewhat different to water charges

BoatMad

Pocoyo wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/td-under-scrutiny-as-10-people-face-arrest-over-role-in-violent-protests-30771604.html

Ah i see the government is trying to start a riot Paul Murphy TD may be arrested also.

with this teeth and that smile, shuuuuuuuder, I hope so

BoatMad

TheChizler wrote: »

I suppose there's never been such a mass amalgamation of services and commencement of direct payment for services that had previously been free (by free I mean essentially an open, unlimited supply).

I'm no legal expert, or even novice so correct me if I'm wrong, but I imagine they could have let it be left to contract law, which essentially says if you make use of a service being offered in exchange for payment, you have to pay for it. The complication is that nobody's making a new connection, it's already a service they're using, so maybe they needed to make special legislation to simplify matters.

You can read both water service acts, I don't think there was any legislation necessary to charge for water per say.

Pocoyo

The Irish establishment has reacted hysterically to popular opposition to the water charges. In an almost comical performance, the media has focused laser-like on Joan Burton’s feelings while trapped in her car and on the protests’ alleged ‘violence’. But it has turned a blind eye to the violence of austerity across the country.

We’re not supposed to talk about it because it lends direct support to the protests, but the background to the recent events is that since 2009, austerity has attacked communities, families and individuals throughout the country, and the poor and vulnerable have paid the heaviest price.

Here is a short list:

-There are now 1,230,000 people suffering from deprivation, or 27% of the population—up from 12% in 2007.
-Between 2009 and 2014, health spending was cut by a mind-boggling 27%. On top of that, we know that privatised, for-profit health care systems result in more people who die, worse care, and more money wasted, but the government is doing nothing apart from cutting even more.
-Communities have been faced with a string of cuts over 2008-2014, including:
-Violence against women programme: -38.2%
-Women’s organisations: -48.7%
-Projects for youth: -44.1%
-Community development: -43.6%
-Voluntary social housing: -50.0%
-Drugs programmes: -37.0%
-Family Support Agency: -32.5%

-The number of people sleeping rough in Dublin is at its highest since records began, having tripled in five years. There are 700 homeless children living in emergency accommodation; the number of homeless families in this situation has more than doubled in the past year.

We could go on, but the point is that it should come as no surprise that people are out in the streets trying to force politicians to back off. It would be surprising if it didn’t happen.

But we were told that the protests signaled that we in Ireland were ‘heading to an ISIS situation’, in reference to the violent fundamentalist Islamic State group in Iraq and Syria. In a ‘sinister twist’, a ‘sinister fringe’ has ‘infiltrated’ and ‘hijacked’ the protests (Tom Brady, Niall O’Connor and Fionnan Sheahan, Irish Independent). The protesters are responsible for the ‘creeping anarchy’ threatening the peace by engaging in ‘rampant law-breaking and thuggery’ (Stephen O’Byrnes, Irish Times).

TD Paul Murphy has been a special target, described as a ‘ridiculous’ and ‘immature’ posh kid who is ‘privately educated’ and ‘unapologetic about the ugly antics of protesters’. The Irish Independent pictured Murphy on the front page of its Weekend Review with a big communist logo in the background. Clearly, he must be friends with Stalin, no? (Kim Bielenberg, Fionnan Sheahan, Irish Independent).

The fears of Joan Burton when trapped in her ministerial car have received an incredible degree of attention. If that passion for details was applied to the hardships of ordinary people living under austerity, there would be no secrets left about how bad austerity is as an economic strategy.We have been told that Burton was ‘abused’ and that her ‘necklace was broken’. She said ‘I was frightened’.

But if the media was serious about discussing feelings of fear and abuse, it would investigate those of the hundreds of thousands of people throughout the country suffering from deprivation, or who fear losing their jobs, or fear not to make ends meet because they lost their jobs, or fear to end up on the street because they can’t make ends meet, or fear they can’t provide for their kids because they can’t keep up anymore. Or look at those who fear death from cancer because waiting times are too long because the health care system is privatised and wasteful. Or those who fear they will have to emigrate because there are no jobs available in Ireland.

But the media cares about the interests of those in power, so it won’t talk about that. The focus is on the two hours Joan Burton spent in her car.

There has also been much talk about the ‘intimidation’ and ‘violence’ associated with the protests. There have been endless assertions that: Throwing a water balloon is violent; throwing an egg is violent; tapping on a car is violent; shaking a car is violent; intending to shake a car is violent; a megaphone is very suspicious.

The media likes to narrow it down to those questions only because it diverts attention from what really matters. It ensures that we don’t ask the questions that should be asked:

Is suicide or depression due to austerity-induced unemployment violence against the unemployed? Is lack of access to a rape crisis centre closed by cutbacks a form of violence and intimidation against victims? Is being forced into homelessness humiliation and intimidation? Is someone forced to die of cancer because of waiting lines a victim of violence? Is enforced deprivation intimidation?

The media and the establishment may reflect on those matters. Everybody else knows the answers.

123balltv

Pocoyo wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/td-under-scrutiny-as-10-people-face-arrest-over-role-in-violent-protests-30771604.html

Ah i see the government is trying to start a riot Paul Murphy TD may be arrested also.

Paul is in Tallaght tonight plenty of Guards there
it's all hype nothing will happen to him.

BoatMad

Here is a short list:

-There are now 1,230,000 people suffering from deprivation, or 27% of the population—up from 12% in 2007.
-Between 2009 and 2014, health spending was cut by a mind-boggling 27%. On top of that, we know that privatised, for-profit health care systems result in more people who die, worse care, and more money wasted, but the government is doing nothing apart from cutting even more.
-Communities have been faced with a string of cuts over 2008-2014, including:
-Violence against women programme: -38.2%
-Women’s organisations: -48.7%
-Projects for youth: -44.1%
-Community development: -43.6%
-Voluntary social housing: -50.0%
-Drugs programmes: -37.0%
-Family Support Agency: -32.5%

I fully accept what you put there

I would ask given we are running a budget deficit of 7.2% or close to 9billon in 2013 ( source fin facts) and an accumulated deficit of 93% of GDP, how do you expect the Gov to re-fund these services even with the current increased tax load on people.

whitelight

fair play to you,an excellent post.

Spanish Eyes

listermint wrote: »

You mean,




Like the Whip system...

The Whip System applies to members of a party in the Dail. That's probably about 120 members or so, apart from indos.

Big difference number wise compared to the Facebook addicts.

Facebook is running our lives now. I feckin hate it. Seems to me it's wannabes looking for twenty minutes of fame every day.

Ugh.It's for zombies. With no minds of their own. TBH.

But each to their own and all that. I am just never going to be part of it. And anyway, who needs it? Any kind of rubbish news on there is regurgitated left right and centre on boards like this, so there's no need to be a member to find out what the latest shyte is.

listermint

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

The Whip System applies to members of a party in the Dail. That's probably about 120 members or so, apart from indos.

Big difference number wise compared to the Facebook addicts.

Facebook is running our lives now. I feckin hate it. Seems to me it's wannabes looking for twenty minutes of fame every day.

Ugh.It's for zombies. With no minds of their own. TBH.

But each to their own and all that. I am just never going to be part of it. And anyway, who needs it? Any kind of rubbish news on there is regurgitated left right and centre on boards like this, so there's no need to be a member to find out what the latest shyte is.

If you can't take Facebook for what it is. Then there's no point being near it. If you are looking to it as an informative relative news source with relevant opinion points well.....

listermint

BoatMad wrote: »

I fully accept what you put there

I would ask given we are running a budget deficit of 7.2% or close to 9billon in 2013 ( source fin facts) and an accumulated deficit of 93% of GDP, how do you expect the Gov to re-fund these services even with the current increased tax load on people.

I put it to you how in the hell charging extra for the water we currently pay for and the potential to privatise said infrastructure with all the facets of potential privatisation will address your accumulated deficit? I think even you realise that it can't and won't. Why is this charade continuing

Should we just carry on as normal and sell everything off?

Is that your proposal for pro charges?

Banjo String

listermint wrote: »

If you can't take Facebook for what it is. Then there's no point being near it. If you are looking to it as an informative relative news source with relevant opinion points well.....

/hits "like" and "share".

Red Pepper

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/ceo-of-ervia-to-donate-value-of-shares-in-water-meter-company-to-charity-652357.html

It has been confirmed that the head of Irish Water's parent company is to donate a six-figure sum to a homelessness charity.

Enda Kenny said the CEO of Ervia will donate all the proceeds he gets from selling his shares in a company installing water meters.

Mike McNicholas holds almost €1m worth of shares in NTR, which owns a meter installation company, and of which he is the former Chief Executive.
But he has agreed to sell those shares - and give the proceeds to Focus Ireland.

In the Dáil this afternoon the Taoiseach said he was happy with the steps Mr McNicholas is taking to separate himself from the company.

Enda, do you have any idea how bad this looks despite the feeble attempt to camouflage it with a charity donation? Jesus wept.

falan

Banjo String wrote: »

Anyone any updates on how Enda was received in Limerick this evening?

I'm guessing there would have been a welcoming committee formed to greet him?

I was there last night. Over 300 sinister fringists and ISIS terrorists gathered for a peaceful protest at short notice. When we got there some of the FG lickarses and councillors and TD's were still arriving by car. One very well dressed woman mouthed a load of abuse at me and another guy and we just looked at her and gave a bare shrug of the shoulders.
I was then stood on the road out the front of the hotel with around a hundred others and another 200 plus blocking the exits of the carpark.I have to say it was the best craic ever. The atmoshere was amazing and even the guards who were many were laughing at our chants that were made up on the spot.

As the TD's and councillors came out in twos and threes they were quite rightly jeered.One councillor came out and faced us and made the motion of conducting an orchestra. He then walked down through the other 200 protesters and said to a ten year old girl that her mouth wasn't big enough and to try harder. This upset people and he had to be escorted out by around 30 Gards surrounding his car...
I have to say it was a hundred percent peaceful protest from our side as is our right. It was the people attending the meeting doing the antagonising.The guards were great, it was blatant arrogance from some of these people.
Enda gave us the slip by causing a decoy and leaving in a riot van.
The support we got from passing lorries,buses and cars was deafening at times.
These protests are here to stay until Irish water and Enda are gone.

bajer101

Pocoyo wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/td-under-scrutiny-as-10-people-face-arrest-over-role-in-violent-protests-30771604.html

Ah i see the government is trying to start a riot Paul Murphy TD may be arrested also.

Paul Williams article, so it's therefore completely suspect imo. While I don't particularly like Paul Murphy, using a photo of him that makes him look creppy is gutter journalism.

Tinkersbell

Red Pepper wrote: »

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/ceo-of-ervia-to-donate-value-of-shares-in-water-meter-company-to-charity-652357.html



Enda, do you have any idea how bad this looks despite the feeble attempt to camouflage it with a charity donation? Jesus wept.

Shatter did something similar in an attempt to shift the spotlight when he was sacked.

https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CEEQFjAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.newstalk.ie%2FAlan-Shatter-to-donate-70000-severance-payment-to-charity&ei=zuB0VJftAuy07gbEyIG4BA&usg=AFQjCNFLwVS7aX61SFYJy6bFZpb-mWV8cA&bvm=bv.80185997,d.ZGU


Kenny's paws are all over this....

Tinkersbell

bajer101 wrote: »

Paul Williams article, so it's therefore completely suspect imo. While I don't particularly like Paul Murphy, using a photo of him that makes him look creppy is gutter journalism.

Williams is part of the establishment.

Seen the picture of him with the 'new' commissioner earlier on facebook. The 'call for a revolution in Ireland' page.
His book launch and they're quite cosy together.

The same williams who had penalty points wiped from his license.

My name is URL

Tinkersbell wrote: »

Williams is part of the establishment.

Seen the picture of him with the 'new' commissioner earlier on facebook. The 'call for a revolution in Ireland' page.
His book launch and they're quite cosy together.

The same williams who had penalty points wiped from his license.

Here's the pic.

http://i.imgur.com/PQgn4wH.jpg

Cozy is an understatement when it comes to describing the relationship certain journalists have with state agencies.

Tinkersbell

My name is URL wrote: »

Here's the pic.

http://i.imgur.com/PQgn4wH.jpg

Cozy is an understatement when it comes to describing the relationship certain journalists have with state agencies.

That's the one ok.
Do you reckon she's one of his many Garda 'sources'?....

Spanish Eyes

listermint wrote: »

If you can't take Facebook for what it is. Then there's no point being near it. If you are looking to it as an informative relative news source with relevant opinion points well.....

Eh...I think that was exactly my point!

LuckyLloyd

Chucky the tree wrote: »

You really think someone has been so badly off that they haven't been able to save €70 in 5 years? Please, let's have a bit of reality here. People giving up health insurance who tells me that they don't want to pay potentially €1,000 for it. Not that they have been so broke that they can't afford €70 in the last 5 years.

I wish you'd get out of a Dentist visit for €70 once all work was done. The arrogance you've displayed with your posting on this tangent is absolutely breathtaking. Step outside your own shoes sir. Some people are struggling and, yes, dentistry is beyond them. Awful stuff.

FullblownRose

BoatMad wrote: »

I fully accept what you put there

I would ask given we are running a budget deficit of 7.2% or close to 9billon in 2013 ( source fin facts) and an accumulated deficit of 93% of GDP, how do you expect the Gov to re-fund these services even with the current increased tax load on people.

I would put it to you that to take IW alone as an example with approx. 2,000 unneccessary employees, there's plenty of room for money saving if the country's budget was managed properly.

falan

gandalf wrote: »

I see you ignored what hawkelady said. The €70 probably isn't a problem but all it will do is identify that you will have to spend a additional €xxx on getting the issue fixed.

When things are tight you prioritise your family ahead of yourself. I know this because this is exactly what I have done. I know I need to go to see the dentist, I know it is going to cost a substantial amount of cash but I don't have those funds available especially when I am financially recovering from being unemployed for 16 months and am trying to pay off debts accrued because of that break in my earning cycle.

Same here, ive needed treatment for the last 3 years but all i could afford was to do a quarter of the work and then had to put it by the wayside as i have more important bills to pay. I have a disease in the jaw bone. My teeth are starting to loosen and will eventually fall out within 5 years according to my dentist at my last clean a year and a half ago. The treatment will slow down the disease but will never stop it. I will then have to have them professionally cleaned every 3 months for the rest of my life.
I've worked in the same job for 10 years on crap money and im being made redundant in a few weeks so i'll use about 3 grand of my redundancy money to fix the problem. I'll use a few grand to clear my debts and then i have a few grand left facing no job. There is nothing in my town so i'll have to travel to find work
I never qualified for anything like a medical card, rent allowance, nothing.

Chucky the tree

Chucky the tree wrote: »

It seems totally unrealistic based on our social welfare scheme and also based on previous stories like this. I find it impossible to believe that in 5 years someone can't scrap together €70 for a dentist check-up. It's bull**** to be honest.

Try living on Social Welfare. Try a CE Scheme for €208 a week - and pay your food, heating, ESB, phone bill, petrol, car tax, Property tax, bin charges, TV Licence. Thats before you buy clothes, go to the dentist, get a haircut. That's before you buy a Christmas present. Last time I had a holiday was 4 years ago. God forbid there is an emergency like something breaks in the house or in the car.

I worked in banking. Now I work on a CE Scheme - ironically in the area of social welfare, giving financial advice! For 208 euro a week. I feel exploited and used. CE Schemes and Jobsbridge are a way of massaging the unemployment figures - thats it. I want a proper paid job to pay all my bills and so I can sleep at night. There are thousands like me. So get a grip and thank your lucky stars you dont have these worries before you write such stupid generalisations.

SaveOurLyric

My name is URL wrote: »

Cozy is an understatement when it comes to describing the relationship certain journalists have with state agencies.

Or is journalists being 'cozy' with state agencies just the lazy way of explaining away journalism that doesnt conform to your own views.

Little CuChulainn

Pocoyo wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/td-under-scrutiny-as-10-people-face-arrest-over-role-in-violent-protests-30771604.html

Ah i see the government is trying to start a riot Paul Murphy TD may be arrested also.

You don't think politicians should be arrested for breaking the law?

Red Pepper

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

You don't think politicians should be arrested for breaking the law?

Oh yeah!! Like Bertie-No-Bank-Account for instance..

Pocoyo

Red Pepper wrote: »

Oh yeah!! Like Bertie-No-Bank-Account for instance..