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**ALL THINGS IRISH WATER/WATER RELATED** Part 2 - MOD WARNING IN OP

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Comments

  • #362
    masculinist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭masculinist


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    The people don't want it. End of story. As a democrat and as a Republican [in the true sense of the word] that should be case closed. End of story. A message to TDs everywhere - If you dont' want to serve the people then resign your fancy offices and go join the dole queues. When the banks got bailed out , those same politicians were not slow to blame the people for the decision even though the job description of those same idiots was to make responsible decisions , those same idiots who even with the most overpaid consultants anywhere supposedly advising them couldnt brew a cup of tea , I wouldt even trust them to make me a cup of tea at the proper shade of milk and temperature that I like. They should listen to the people or resign.


  • #363
    Barely There
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    DamagedTrax wrote: »

    how is it acceptable to you that someone on a set charge can run their water all day and still pay less than someone who conserves with a meter?.

    It's not ideal admittedly, but your proposal would mean everyone can run their water all day and still pay the same charge - how is that better?

    DamagedTrax wrote: »

    transparent taxation that is directly passed on to the actual service would be preferable until they come up with a way to pay that's FAIR to everybody and not just one that suits the government because they already hung their bollox on it.

    So more taxes onto the PAYE workers of the State?


  • #364
    Barely There
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    masculinist wrote: »
    The people don't want it. End of story. As a democrat and as a Republican [in the true sense of the word] that should be case closed. End of story. A message to TDs everywhere - If you dont' want to serve the people then resign your fancy offices and go join the dole queues or get a real job.

    You don't speak for everyone buddy.


    As a democrat and as a Republican you should probably realise that without it having to be explained to you.


  • #365
    masculinist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭masculinist


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Barely There wrote: »
    You don't speak for everyone buddy.


    As a democrat and as a Republican you should probably realise that without it having to be explained to you.

    A few little Napoleon dictators shouldn't be allowed run the show for the rest of us . Normally you couldn't get Irish people to protest no matter what you did . But hundreds of thousands were protesting in the rain. This protest cuts across all sectional interests and across all divisions in Irish society. If you think thats insignificant you are deluded or dishonest or both.


  • #366
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,700 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    masculinist wrote: »
    The people don't want it.
    Barely There wrote: »
    You don't speak for everyone buddy.

    I would guarantee you that if IW's existence was put forward in a referendum in the morning, it would fail miserably.

    Regardless of the details that divide the majority of the people do NOT want "Irish Water".


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  • #367
    DamagedTrax
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,277 ✭✭✭DamagedTrax


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Barely There wrote: »
    It's not ideal admittedly, but your proposal would mean everyone can run their water all day and still pay the same charge - how is that better?

    until a fair sytem is in place then yes its the only fair way. and i'm talking as someone who 'cant' be metered. i know ill be getting it easier, so this isnt a money protest on my part.

    So more taxes onto the PAYE workers of the State?

    ive already suggested a 2 euro a week payment from social welfare recipients who arent in vunerable situations. a one off payment is asking too much of these people. fairness needs to include these people, they deserve as fair treatment as the rest of us.

    as far as tax dodgers? thats not something i can sort out.


  • #368
    Valetta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭Valetta


    moxin wrote: »
    My motor tax and VAT has paid for it already .

    Quite true.

    moxin wrote: »
    and continues to do so.

    This most definitely won't be the case if water charges are brought in.

    Your motor tax and VAt will be spent elswhere.

    You will only ever pay for water once.


  • #369
    Daith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,246 ✭✭✭Daith


    Barely There wrote: »
    I think people should pay for water based primarily on usage with appropriate protections for those vulnerable members of our society who are unable afford to.

    Usage based payments will encourage people to conserve water which is likely to become a scarcer and more expensive resource for society to provide as population levels increase in the future

    Right but are you against assessed charges which are not based on use?


  • #370
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Valetta wrote: »

    You will only ever pay for water once.

    Good to see we've got rid of one half of the the water-in-water-out charge......


  • #371
    Barely There
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    Tony EH wrote: »
    I would guarantee you that if IW's existence was put forward in a referendum in the morning, it would fail miserably.

    Regardless of the details that divide the majority of the people do NOT want "Irish Water".


    And despite the disappearance of IW the fundamental problem would still remain - how shall we fund our water infrastructure going forward?


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  • #372
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    So you think they just pepper sprayed women at the station for the craic and this riled up the crowd? What's sad is you've probably convinced yourself this is true.

    Wasn't it good thinking for the protesters to bring milk with them to neutralise the effects of the pepper spray!


  • #373
    mikom
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,391 ✭✭✭✭mikom


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Wasn't it good thinking for the protesters to bring milk with them to neutralise the effects of the pepper spray!

    Cheaper than water.


  • #374
    Barely There
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    Daith wrote: »
    Right but are you against assessed charges which are not based on use?

    I think it would be preferable if everyone was metered - if this was not feasible in the short to medium term, than an assessed charge would appear to be the only alternative option.

    I don't see any technical reason as to why metering can't eventually be introduced for the vast majority however.


  • #375
    Red Pepper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭Red Pepper


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    I think we could see the government collapse by April.
    The December 10th protest will really put pressure on but Christmas will take the sting out of it. More protests in Jan/Feb will increase the pressure again and even the Irish Independent bias will be all too transparent. I expect a few more scandals, division and evidence of ongoing corruption/cronyism between now and April too but it will be interesting to see what triggers the actual collapse.

    The only risk is that SF get overly involved in the IW protests and it loses it's momentum.

    The next General Election will be the most important and fascinating election since 1922.


  • #376
    Valetta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭Valetta


    mikom wrote: »
    Good to see we've got rid of one half of the the water-in-water-out charge......

    Touche.


  • #377
    masculinist
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,616 ✭✭✭masculinist


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    mikom wrote: »
    Good to see we've got rid of one half of the the water-in-water-out charge......

    We now need to get rid of the deadwood in Dail Eireann


  • #378
    Stargate
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,680 ✭✭✭Stargate


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    So you think they just pepper sprayed women at the station for the craic and this riled up the crowd? What's sad is you've probably convinced yourself this is true.

    What's sad is you've probably convinced yourself this is false. Not done for " the craic " as you say , but come on pepper spray ?
    I take it you were not there in person? No?


  • #379
    Tony EH
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,700 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Barely There wrote: »
    And despite the disappearance of IW the fundamental problem would still remain - how shall we fund our water infrastructure going forward?

    It's already been said.

    Raise taxes, ringfence them like the USC. Use that to fix the leaks, roll back on the taxes at a later stage.

    The actual day to running of our water infrastructure can be be covered from out tax take. It has been for years. It's the 40% leaks that's the salient issue and it's been neglect and a lack of political will that's let the system fall into such disrepair.

    "Irish Water" is not a solution to that. It's existence is not even about that. It's an outright lie, which is why people reject it.

    If a future govt. wants to bring in metering, then meter people on a fair price ONLY for what they use. None of this standing charge shite, or perk funds for a "soon-to-be-privatised" company.

    As was also said earlier, you'll find that the vast majority of people would have no problem with that approach.


  • #380
    gladrags
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,028 ✭✭✭gladrags


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    mikom wrote: »
    Bredan O'Connor has an upcoming piece on "How all the smart, ballsy guys are pointing out dissidents right now"....

    http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/the-smart-ballsy-guys-are-buying-up-property-right-now-26307728.html

    I remember reading the article in disbelief, when it was first published in the Sunday Sindo.It is regarded as a classic piece of clueless "journalism".

    I often wondered if any poor unfortunate took heed, given that the property markets were crashing all around. I see the Sindo is still at it today.

    The mantra in the Sindo appears to be, facts are secondary.

    Harris is is a counterfactualist, from his days with RTE,if you read most of his articles, you will notice he very rarely quotes sources, and when he does, he skewers.Off the top of his head, dangerous.

    In the early days of the water protests, the Sindo focused on the negative,they are only now aligning themselves with the protests, because they realise the mass support.

    They are cynically now trying to tag SF with any violence that raises its head.


  • #381
    donvito99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    Red Pepper wrote: »

    The next General Election will be the most important and fascinating election since 1922.

    The sense of importance with you people never ceases to amaze me.


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  • #382
    gladrags
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,028 ✭✭✭gladrags


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    PAC are to investigate allegations that senior cabinet politicians,are tax evaders.

    The allegations made by a senior civil servant, also claim that government departments, and senior politicians, did not act on the allegations, when informed.

    A dossier was sent to PAC, apparently with the bank details, of politicians, involved in the tax fraud.

    The Irish Times


  • #383
    Red Pepper
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,567 ✭✭✭Red Pepper


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    donvito99 wrote: »
    The sense of importance with you people never ceases to amaze me.

    you people?


  • #384
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    Stargate wrote: »
    What's sad is you've probably convinced yourself this is false. Not done for " the craic " as you say , but come on pepper spray ?
    I take it you were not there in person? No?

    If it wasn't done for the craic then why was it? Might it be because the crowd get riled up before the pepper spray and not after as the other poster suggested? Pepper spray is used when physical force is not enough and batons are too much. Seems to fit the situation shown int he videos. I guess you think they should have just let them keep smashing windows and hurling stuff at the station.

    I'd well believe that the violence was probably started by just a few people in the crowd but when the rest of the crowd then protect these people they become just as responsible.


  • #385
    Stargate
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,680 ✭✭✭Stargate


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    If it wasn't done for the craic then why was it? Might it be because the crowd get riled up before the pepper spray and not after as the other poster suggested? Pepper spray is used when physical force is not enough and batons are too much. Seems to fit the situation shown int he videos. I guess you think they should have just let them keep smashing windows and hurling stuff at the station.

    I'd well believe that the violence was probably started by just a few people in the crowd but when the rest of the crowd then protect these people they become just as responsible.

    False false false ....evidence please ?? I have not seen ONE report of ANY damage or any injury due to the protest outside that Garda station , Please can you provide a link? Thanks!

    You well believe you say , it's your opinion NOT fact , so please stick to what is proven and not hearsay.


  • #386
    donvito99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    Stargate wrote: »
    False false false ....evidence please ?? I have not seen ONE report of ANY damage or any injury due to the protest outside that Garda station , Please can you provide a link? Thanks!

    You well believe you say , it's your opinion NOT fact , so please stick to what is proven and not hearsay.

    Any suggestions of violence aside, it all comes back to the right of Gardaí to remove peaceful protesters by force if they suspect them of having committed a scheduled offence under, say, the Public Order Act.

    This is OFTEN forgotten at these protests, and is mistaken for 'brutality' or 'betraying the Rising leaders' or some such shoite.


  • #387
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    Stargate wrote: »
    False false false ....evidence please ?? I have not seen ONE report of ANY damage or any injury due to the protest outside that Garda station , Please can you provide a link? Thanks!

    You well believe you say , it's your opinion NOT fact , so please stick to what is proven and not hearsay.

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/water/water-protests-infiltrated-by-dissidents-as-meters-on-hold-30725389.html

    Sure. I tell you what, why don't you tell me what happened. Start with when the mob arrived at the station.


  • #388
    Stargate
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,680 ✭✭✭Stargate


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    Little CuChulainn wrote: »
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/water/water-protests-infiltrated-by-dissidents-as-meters-on-hold-30725389.html

    Sure. I tell you what, why don't you tell me what happened. Start with when the mob arrived at the station.

    A link to the Indo lol , owned by who ? Mr Water Meter Denis O'Brien Ha
    A Corkman and all , I have read many reports on what happened in Coolock . Not one arrest , not a single one, and all those " dissident republicans " present tut tut .

    The report is like IW , a makey uppy thing as they go along . It's such drivel you couldn't make it up ffs .


  • #389
    Little CuChulainn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,624 ✭✭✭Little CuChulainn


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    Stargate wrote: »
    A link to the Indo lol , owned by who ? Mr Water Meter Denis O'Brien Ha
    A Corkman and all , I have read many reports on what happened in Coolock . Not one arrest , not a single one, and all those " dissident republicans " present tut tut .

    The report is like IW , a makey uppy thing as they go along . It's such drivel you couldn't make it up ffs .

    So tell me what happened then.


  • #390
    skywalker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,707 ✭✭✭skywalker


    I do not want to pay for water in any way
    gladrags wrote: »
    PAC are to investigate allegations that senior cabinet politicians,are tax evaders.

    The allegations made by a senior civil servant, also claim that government departments, and senior politicians, did not act on the allegations, when informed.

    A dossier was sent to PAC, apparently with the bank details, of politicians, involved in the tax fraud.

    The Irish Times

    Isnt the timing of that interesting . . . Now who would want to fill up the front pages with this right now?


    Maybe Leinster house is as leaky as the water pipes.


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  • #391
    donvito99
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    I would like to see IW to cease trading and water to remain controlled by government/local auth
    Stargate wrote: »
    A link to the Indo lol , owned by who ? Mr Water Meter Denis O'Brien Ha

    I'd have put my house on you saying that, and the kitchen sink on you not answering the question.


This discussion has been closed.
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