Swimming for Tri Beginners

tunney

Kurt Godel wrote: »

We need to work on your pool assertiveness hate slow lane hogs myself, those who feel duty bound to keep you at their slow pace are the worst! Mid-lane passing is a great way to practice sprint pacing, and it's many the swimmer who only learned to tumble turn as a way to break up the wall chatting group!

I've been punched, slapped, kicked and much more due to my approach to lane hogs. By disrespecting others in the lane, lane hogs lose the right to respect. So I swim over them. Doesn't affect my stress levels and good OW experience, but it at least makes sure that we all have a stressful swim.

griffin100

I had an aul wan tell me last week that I couldn't get into 'her' lane as she was there first.....this was in a 50m pool with 2m wide lanes :eek:

The only thing worse than a lane hogger is a lane hogger who stinks. Seriously, have a fcukin shower before you get in the pool, don't cover yourself in perfume first, never rub deepheat on your legs before you get in and please please please do not eat garlic before swimming. Rant over.......

tunney

griffin100 wrote: »

I had an aul wan tell me last week that I couldn't get into 'her' lane as she was there first.....this was in a 50m pool with 2m wide lanes :eek:

The only thing worse than a lane hogger is a lane hogger who stinks. Seriously, have a fcukin shower before you get in the pool, don't cover yourself in perfume first, never rub deepheat on your legs before you get in and please please please do not eat garlic before swimming. Rant over.......

Or a big hairy gash and an ill fitting swim suit. And a big wide breast stroke kick................

sconhome

tunney wrote: »

Or a big hairy gash and an ill fitting swim suit. And a big wide breast stroke kick................

You have a way with words........it's frightening!

career move

Wk 21 Day 1
200m warm up
4*50 as 25 fist, 25 sw, 15s
10*50 as 25 BE3, 25 BE5, 15s (steady controlled pace)
10*25 as 15MAX, 10 easy (MAX is full on sprint)
3*100 moderate pace
In on 2:23, 2:23, 2:23
3*100 steady pace
In on 2:16, 2:16, 2:16
3*100 fast pace (enter fastest time in the 100mTT table)
In on 2:16, 2:15, 2:14
250m choice


Messed up the 100's a bit. The 'moderate pace' was confusing for me and I think I should have gone a bit slower because 'steady' pace was too fast and then on the first 'fast' one I was trying to go too fast and I forgot Tunney's golden rule Swim Strong. I wasn't catching the water right and I was doing short useless strokes. Then I started hyperventilating and the pool roof and the water both started to spin. Held it together just about to finish the ref but I was wrecked. My legs were like jelly. Had to take a little walk out to the lockers before I could continue. Did a better job on the last two but it was tough and I should have been a bit faster I think. Oh well good lesson to learn. Again



100m Time Trial|Nov '14|Dec|Jan|Feb|March|April|May|June'15
ainsyjnr|1:47|1:38||||||
strummer_ie|2:10|||||||
career move|2:49|2:38|2:32|2:19|2:14|||
Rainbow Kirby|1:57*|1:53||||||
ToTriOrNot |2:09|||||||
bart86 |1:51|1.48|2:00|||||
iwillhtfu |###|1:36|1:42
andstillrickyvilla |2:38|2:23|2:19|2:07|2:04|||
steroo ||||1:52||||

Steroo

I've been dipping in & out of the sessions here... due to Tri Club sessions twice a week & limited time on lunch I pick one's that suit me & try to vary it.
Currently on week 15.

I will be starting longer sessions at lunchtime soon.

Did the 100 TT at the end of my session today.. expected more but did a decent run this morning & the legs were tired!

Again thanks Kurt & guests for time & effort.

100m Time Trial|Nov '14|Dec|Jan|Feb|March|April|May|June'15
ainsyjnr|1:47|1:38||||||
strummer_ie|2:10|||||||
career move|2:49|2:38|2:32|2:19|2:14|||
Rainbow Kirby|1:57*|1:53||||||
ToTriOrNot |2:09|||||||
bart86 |1:51|1.48|2:00|||||
iwillhtfu |###|1:36|1:42
andstillrickyvilla |2:38|2:23|2:19|2:07|2:04|||
steroo ||||1:52|1:50|||

and still ricky villa

Signed up for DCT2015 Olympic. Will arrive fitter, faster and better prepared than last year.
No tutting on the bank as I set off on my leisurely swim this time hopefully

ToTriOrNot

Steroo wrote: »

I've been dipping in & out of the sessions here... due to Tri Club sessions twice a week & limited time on lunch I pick one's that suit me & try to vary it.
Currently on week 15.

I will be starting longer sessions at lunchtime soon.

Did the 100 TT at the end of my session today.. expected more but did a decent run this morning & the legs were tired!

Again thanks Kurt & guests for time & effort.

100m Time Trial|Nov '14|Dec|Jan|Feb|March|April|May|June'15
ainsyjnr|1:47|1:38||||||
strummer_ie|2:10|||||||
career move|2:49|2:38|2:32|2:19|2:14|||
Rainbow Kirby|1:57*|1:53||||||
ToTriOrNot |2:09|||||1:59||
bart86 |1:51|1.48|2:00|||||
iwillhtfu |###|1:36|1:42
andstillrickyvilla |2:38|2:23|2:19|2:07|2:04|||
steroo ||||1:52|1:50|||

Have been dipping in and out of the threat. As I had started one on one with a coach , I decided to follow her instructions..but this thread has been a great help. I am now swimming 3 sometimes 4 times a week, and it shows that the time in the water is needed to improve. Thanks to all involved for putting such a great resource out there. I have recommended this to any of my friends trying to improve their swimming.

Kurt Godel

Steroo wrote: »

Did the 100 TT at the end of my session today.. expected more but did a decent run this morning & the legs were tired!

I scratch my head about your swimming Steroo... you are getting quicker, and can do a (relatively fast for this table) 1:50 for 100m, yet have ongoing breathing issues. Very hard to diagnose online, but from what you mention about tired legs above... I wonder if you might be kicking too hard in general? Or kicking incorrectly? Energy required to get propulsion from the legs will lead to gasping for air very quickly.

What are your swim times like with a pull bouy?
How is your bilateral breathing when you swim steady pace, with a very light flutter kick?

Steroo

Kurt Godel wrote: »

I scratch my head about your swimming Steroo... you are getting quicker, and can do a (relatively fast for this table) 1:50 for 100m, yet have ongoing breathing issues. Very hard to diagnose online, but from what you mention about tired legs above... I wonder if you might be kicking too hard in general? Or kicking incorrectly? Energy required to get propulsion from the legs will lead to gasping for air very quickly.

What are your swim times like with a pull bouy?
How is your bilateral breathing when you swim steady pace, with a very light flutter kick?

I've a hole on one side of my head from scratching it for the same reason! We did 100m sprints this morning with Tri club & I was hitting 1:50 consistently... but I knew I was losing composure & a 200 was out of the question. Breathing is the ongoing issue. So I need to either do the swim analysis (base2race) or get a coach to pin point the issue.

Pull Buoy i've never timed... but somedays I definitely swim much easier but other days I feel my legs dragging & feel awkward. I think my pull buoy is small compared to the big wedge ones I see others with, but maybe this is irrelevant.

My Bilateral breathing is okay for about 50-100m but starts to feel like I'm not getting enough air quick enough... I keep working on it trying to figure it out but no joy.

Yesterday I did a 300m in 7 mins & non stop which was good for me, but it was all breathing to one side.

But the Swimforamile coach told me on a kicking drill I was too rigid & told me to relax & try a bicycle kick/cycle motion a bit more... and I started moving twice as fast... so this made me think my Front Crawl kick might have a similar issue. Siiiigggghhhh

Kurt Godel

Steroo wrote: »

Pull Buoy i've never timed... but somedays I definitely swim much easier but other days I feel my legs dragging & feel awkward. I think my pull buoy is small compared to the big wedge ones I see others with, but maybe this is irrelevant.

Size is important- if your legs are dropping the pb isn't doing its job, so try a bigger one. The whole idea is to take legs out of the equation, so you can focus on other elements of the swim, and this very much includes breathing. Get a bigger pb (think AKW has Big Bouys?) and see how you get on.

From the sounds of things you are going into oxygen debt at an early stage. Lots of possible reasons for this, but lets rule out the legs as an issue and see what happens. The good thing is you will overcome this breathing issue, and your times will be magical once you do.

career move

Day 2
200m warm up
50m breathe every 3
50m breathe every 4
50m breathe every 5
50m breathe every 6
50m breathe every 7
50m breathe every 8
50m breathe every 9
50m breathe every 8
50m breathe every 7
50m breathe every 6
50m breathe every 5
50m breathe every 4
50m breathe every 3
(20 seconds rest between each)
All of these should be done at a slow controlled pace. Exhale slowly and constantly. Try and keep a streamlined position. Take on air in a controlled manner- you should not be gasping. Relax and you will do better.
5*200m pb, breathe every 3, 20 seconds rest between each.
200 backstroke

This went well. I'm much more confident about breathing since that hypoxic session a few weeks ago and I have a much better body position when I don't have to breathe

Day 3
200 warm up
4*50 as 25MAX, 25 easy, 20s
4*25 steady, 15s rest. Count the number of strokes you take for each 25, and get an average. All 36 strokes
6 x 50 drills (torpedo, one arm extension, elbow pause, side kick, puppy paddle, shoulder tap)
6*400, alternate sw and pb, 15s
(these should be done steady pace. Focus on slightly overreaching- try and reach a little further than usual with hand entry. Make the most of your catch and pull with thumb-to-thigh exit. The goal is to take one or two less strokes for each 25 than your test average)
400 sw: 9:35 I counted a couple of lengths and they were 35 strokes but I stopped counting because I've so much else to think about .... am I rotating enough, am I lifting my arm high enough, is my elbow higher than my wrist, are my fingers pointed right, am I lifting my head too high when I breathe, is my arm shaped like it's around a ball when it's in the water, am I pulling back properly ....... my watch tells me I was averaging 34 spl
400 pb: Did 450 but the 400 was in 8:26 30spl
400 sw: 9:38 38 spl
400 pb: 8:26 30 spl
400 sw: 9:29 36 spl 14 sec PB
400 pb: 8:24 30 spl
50m k with pb (cause my arms were tired!)
200 backstroke

ainsyjnr

Hi guys, I've been away a while as my shoulder was having issues. Turns out I was coming over with too high an elbow an impinging the rotator cuff. I was doing a coached session and on the first length the coach pointed it out and I have been swimming pain free for a couple of weeks now...

I have been looking in on the thread but just repeating what I was doing in November/December to try and get back to where I was as I have missed almost 3 months of any quality with this issue.

In the last 2 weeks I have swam 1 mile with a pb and I did a 1000m TT on Thursday in 23:17. I did a 100m TT after it and managed 1:56 so I think I have lost some speed.

I am probably only going to manage two sessions a week for a while now so I will try and pick up some of the sessions from the last few months and try and bring myself on a bit. The focus now is probably going to be on maintaining what I have and getting some open water practice come May.

Thanks for sticking with it Kurt and congratulations to everybody on here for showing some great improvements. I definitely needed this and I will no doubt be referring to it next autumn when I focus on my swimming once again.

Bart86

Session #3 - Pacing and Endurance by Dory Dory

400 warm up > Backstroke
2 x (3 x 200 w/15-30 sec rest...then 1 x 400) - 2 minute rest between sets
200 cool down

First set I went a bit slower, I did´t wanted to burn myself at the beginning.
The 3 x 200 w/15-30 sec rest...then 1 x 400 was steady pace but now, I think I could push myself a litter more as I finished the session tired but not wrecked as usually


Week 17- Its all about the Pace

Day 1
100m sw easy
100m pb easy
50m k
100m steady*, 15s rest
200m steady, 15s rest
300m steady, 15s rest
400m steady, 15s rest
300m steady, 15s rest
200m steady, 15s rest
100m steady, 15s rest
400m choice swim down
* Same pace for all distances.

I did my 100TT rather than 50kick, and I am happy! 1.40m. I haven´t run or cycled for few weeks (some issues with my calf ), so my legs were fresh and it helped me..

Kept form throughout the session, the last ´200m steady, 15s rest´I started having shoulder pain, thought.

400m choice swim was 300 Backstroke and 100 catch up drill.

100m Time Trial|Nov '14|Dec|Jan|Feb|March|April|May|June'15
ainsyjnr|1:47|1:38||||||
strummer_ie|2:10|||||||
career move|2:49|2:38|2:32|2:19|2:14|||
Rainbow Kirby|1:57*|1:53||||||
ToTriOrNot |2:09|||||1.59||
bart86 |1:51|1.48|2:00||1.40|||
iwillhtfu |###|1:36|1:42
andstillrickyvilla |2:38|2:23|2:19|2:07|2:04|||
steroo ||||1:52|1:50|||

Kurt Godel

Day 1
200 easy
4*50 k alternate board/no board
4*50 fingertip
4*50 pb
4*50 pb & fist
4*50 fist
100m MAX
2*100 fingertip
2*100 pb
2*100 pb & fist
2*100 fist
200m MAX
200 swim down
(10/15s rest after each drill; 45s rest after each MAX)

Day 2
200 easy
4*50 drill choice
5*400 swim hard for first 10 strokes each length, easy for the remainder of length (50m pool swim hard first 20 strokes)
200m choice

Day 3
200 easy
4*50 alternate fingertip/fist
400 swim
600 pb
800 swim
600 pb
400 swim
200 easy
Steady pace throughout- good stroke, solid exit, never out of breath. This is a 3k+ set but well within peoples abilities. Make sure you take on fluids between sets, and rest 30/45s between each.

ainsyjnr

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Day 1
200 easy
4*50 k alternate board/no board
4*50 fingertip
4*50 pb
4*50 pb & fist
4*50 fist
100m MAX
2*100 fingertip
2*100 pb
2*100 pb & fist
2*100 fist
200m MAX
200 swim down
(10/15s rest after each drill; 45s rest after each MAX)
.

Decided to get back on the horse and jump straight in again...

Did this up to the 2*100 fist before I ran out of time, I only managed 1*50.

This is the first time I have done the fist drill and forgive me if this has been said before but I like the way it was making me use all the muscles down the side to get an effective pull. I also felt that I made sure I reached further which seemed to streamline me better. There were times when I 'lost it' and the stroke really fell to pieces but went I had a good rhythm going I didn't feel any slower than usual. Actually only 6 seconds slower with pb/fist over 100m compared to normal pb.

My 100 max was in 1:46 so not too far off where I was so overall I am pleased but make a mental note I need an extra 10-15 mins to make sure I get everything done.

Kurt, if I only do one more session this week which would you recommend? And would you always say pick session 2 over 3 for example?

Thanks.

Kurt Godel

ainsyjnr wrote: »

Kurt, if I only do one more session this week which would you recommend? And would you always say pick session 2 over 3 for example?

Thanks.

Its been mentioned before, no harm in hammering the point home...
3 weekly sessions to maintain/improve, 4+ sessions to improve. I think 2 sessions a week are less than optimal.

However, needs must sometimes, so in general (this applies to most weeks) the order of importance is:

Drills > short sets > distance sets. Hope that helps!

Ranjo

Did my first tri last year in a very bad choice wetsuit. Had no idea what I was doing tbh so have remedied that with a newly arrived wetty.

Would like suggestions on where I could practice/train in it in Dublin south area. Was thinking of Dún Laoghaire or Bray but have never really seen others down there in a wetsuit.

and still ricky villa

Ranjo wrote: »

Did my first tri last year in a very bad choice wetsuit. Had no idea what I was doing tbh so have remedied that with a newly arrived wetty.

Would like suggestions on where I could practice/train in it in Dublin south area. Was thinking of Dún Laoghaire or Bray but have never really seen others down there in a wetsuit.

I recommend Seapoint. Level seabed, fairly calm, buoys to aim for, shelters, toilets and arctic shower. Friendly people there year round too and no randy seals

Steroo

Kurt Godel wrote: »

I wonder if you might be kicking too hard in general? Or kicking incorrectly? ?

I think you were on the Money Kurt... I eased off the effort with the kicks yesterday & this morning (previously I felt I was sinking if I did this) and everything felt more relaxed, easier to breath & endure.

Thanks

rainbow kirby

Did the Day 1 session from this week yesterday evening - good session, fist drill with pull buoy felt absolutely awful though!

Redial

Kurt – I’ve been a voyeur of this forum for a few years but just wanted to drop a note to thank you for this thread. I'm on week 12 and have certainly seen improvements over the few weeks. Much appreciated!

Kurt Godel

Steroo wrote: »

I think you were on the Money Kurt... I eased off the effort with the kicks yesterday & this morning (previously I felt I was sinking if I did this) and everything felt more relaxed, easier to breath & endure.

Thanks

I know you posted previously about breathing every two and how easier you found it... its important to learn bilateral and be at ease with it, however you end up breathing in a race. If you train while only breathing on one side, you'll end up with injuries from asymmetric swimming. Progress in swimming isn't linear (like it is in running, for instance). You sometimes have to slow down and master a new skill, before getting quicker. You'd be better off spending the next month swimming slower than usual, not caring about your times at all, but focussing on getting the bilateral correct. Keep a light flutter kick, or else use the pb if you find the legs sinking, and you'll soon be breathing with ease.

Once you do, you'll make huge progress- and thats what we're all about here

and still ricky villa

tunney wrote: »

4x50 as 25 archer, 25 easy + 15s

archer = Archer drill is a body position/recovery drill for freestyle. Think "bow and arrow" when you think "archer." Like an archer stretching his bowstring to fire an arrow, the swimmer kicks with one arm outstretched (palm down). The other arm is held in partial recovery position. We use three different positions: archer 1, archer 2, and archer 3. Archer 1 is with the elbow high and hand trailing the elbow. Archer 2 is with the elbow at its highest point and hand even with the shoulder. Archer 3 is with the elbow high and in front of the shoulder with the hand poised to enter the water far in front of the shoulder.

Quick question tunney. I'm going to launch into these tomorrow and just want to know if the Archer drill is 3 seperate, deliberate movements?
Best way I can think to describe is, should your recovery be position 1, hold briefly, position 2, hold briefly, position 3, hold briefly, catch, pull, repeat?
Or should I concentrate on holding each position seperately for a length?

Bart86

Kurt Godel wrote: »

Week 18
Day 2
200 easy
4*50 k
4*50 sw
4*50 fingertip
4*50 pb
4*50 sw
4*50 fist
4*50 pb
4*50 sw
4*50 armpit tap
4*50 pb
4*50 sw
200 swim down choice
15 sec rest after each drill, all done at comfortable pace.

Day 3
200 easy
4*50 k
400 off 9:40 (or whatever your slow pace is)
1 min rest
400 off 9:20 (a little faster than slow pace)
1 min rest
400 off 9:00 (this pace should feel "steady")
1 min rest
400 off 8:40 (this pace should feel "fast")
1 min rest
200 easy choice
Pacingpacingpacingpacingpacing during the 400's... do not go out too fast.

Good luck!

Day 2
Doing the armpit tap drill, I had to stop at the wall to rest for few seconds, I really felt a high elbow, though.

Day 3

400 off 9:40 (or whatever your slow pace is) > Done in 9:40
400 off 9:20 (a little faster than slow pace) Done in 9:17
400 off 9:00 (this pace should feel "steady") > Done in 9:13
400 off 8:40 (this pace should feel "fast"): > done in 8:25

I pushed a bit on the last 400m as the previous one (steady) should have swum faster..
It´s not easy to keep pace!

ainsyjnr

Day 2
200 easy
4*50 drill choice
5*400 swim hard for first 10 strokes each length, easy for the remainder of length (50m pool swim hard first 20 strokes)
200m choice

Did this last night, my longest session in a while. I found the 400's really tough as after the hard strokes my stroke went to pot as I tried to recover my breathing and rest my muscles for the next hard 10. I really had to focus on the basics of my stroke to swim slow.

I am not sure what your intention for the set was Kurt, is it strength or experience of hard/easy/hard because that's what happens in races or something else?

Basically I had 2000m out of my comfort zone but I am certain it has helped in some way.

Kurt Godel

Its a tough set, no doubt! From your post it looks like you did it perfectly. Swimming in a pool is great, but your pacing and breathing and turnover will feel very different in Open Water, where there may be scrums, or tides, or waves, to deal with. The swimmer who can work hard, get on legs, sight, move off the legs to a better course, work hard to get on faster legs, work hard in the gaps between swells, recover while sighting... will be out of the water having swum a shorter course. The ability to swim out fast, and then to recover fast, counts for a lot in OW conditions.

I can see at least three things you wrote that tick the right boxes for the set, but the one that stands out for me is this: "I really had to focus on the basics of my stroke to swim slow". Perfect thing to take from that session.

Kurt Godel

Day 1 Open Water Practice day
200 warm up
600m Sighting practise as:
Pick a stationary object down the other end of the pool- an exit, a chair, a particular window, etc. Swim 25 (or 50 in a LC pool) and immediately find that object when you come up for air every second breath. Then swim back down the pool "Tarzan", front crawl keeping your head out of the water. This is tough!
Summary: One length sighting, one length Tarzan, alternate for 600m.
2 min rest
600m straight swim up and down- but you cannot touch the wall at any time (so turn without touching)
2 min rest
6*100 swim steady pace, 15s rest between each
400 choice warm down

Day 2
200 warm up
200 drills (choice)
2*50 fist, 15s rest
100 MAX
2*50 fist, 15s rest
200 MAX
2*50 fist, 15s rest
100 MAX
2*50 fist, 15s rest
200 MAX
400 choice warm down

Day 3
200 warm up
200 drills (choice)
200 swim, 15s rest
300 pb, 15s rest
400 swim, 15s rest
500 pb, 15s rest
400 swim, 15s rest
300 pb, 15s rest
200 swim, 15s rest
(all the above steady pace)
400 choice warm down

Kurt Godel

It's the time of year when thoughts turn to wetsuits and OW... and no doubt an awful lot of people will look at wetsuit prices and go for the cheapest online deal- not a good idea! Here's a very good piece of advice from the Q&A thread:

68 lost souls wrote: »

What advice would you give to newbies buying wetsuits?
Make sure it fits, buying online might seem cheaper but its a false economy if you have to buy twice. Also don't necessarily buy the most expensive as it might not suit your ability. Wetsuit design varies from brand to brand and across the different levels and buoyancy is one part that differs greatly.

Some wetsuits target more buoyant hips or legs to improve swim position but if you are a strong kicker the extra buoyancy can detract from this and also is not needed as you probably have good positioning anyway.

Get the right suit for you which means, if you can, test them out. Even if you can't get to a shop that allows this then see if your club mates will lend you one to test (just don't pee in someone else's suit).

Lastly, a wetsuit is different getting out of when its dry than when its wet so to practice your transitions make sure to do it wet. This probably means get more OW practice in and try remove your suit like you would in transition and learn to take it off quickly without tearing it.

Base2Race in Dublin have an endless pool, they will let you try on the suit and swim with it before purchasing. They'll also show you the correct way to put on your wetsuit- 10 minutes spent putting the suit on correctly is 10 minutes off your race time...

rainbow kirby

Need to replace mine (BlueSeventy Sprint women's size large) - lost around 8kg since the start of last tri season and mine is way looser than it should be now!