When did the Simpsons stop being good?

Thargor

DainBramage wrote: »

Once I see its the newer looking animation I flick over

Same, I actually hate Homer these days, he's just a dislikeable character now, thankfully with the difference in animation and overall style its possible to keep them separate in your head and still love the old homer as one of the best fictional characters ever written.

Generic Dreadhead

The Strawman Argument wrote: »

Anyways, here's my breakdown:

Pffft typical Strawman argument

Dots1982

Cormac... wrote: »

You're wrong there. Cause if you're asking what is your favourite show and people answer The Simpsons, thats encompassing all of it. Are you expecting the answer "The Simpsons back when it was good"? Cause if so, it's not anyones favourite show now (it might have been 15 years ago), people will more likely answer with something that they think hasn't quiet go ten crap yet like South Park or Game of Thrones or whatever. It not being anyones favourite show currently is no ones fault but the writers and directors of the company. It still doesn't mean the earlier series were not great. If they stopped at season 11. It would be peoples favourite show currently.

I think what you're saying is slightly differentl; If someone asks you your favourite tv show you're expected to say something current like GoT/Homeland. If you're asked what is your favourite tv show of all time then the question is different and you're allowed to say things that were good and ended or are no longer good. My favourite all time tv shows are the wire and the simpsons back when it was good.

eviltimeban

Just been looking them up, Season 9 was still a fine season - "The City of New York vs. Homer Simpson", "Lisa's Sax", "The Joy of Sect", "The Last Temptation of Krust", "Lisa the Simpson", "The Trouble with Trillions", "Trash of the Titans" - all fine episodes. A couple of duffers in there, but nothing too bad.

Looking through the list of Season 10, the only decent episodes were "When You Dish Upon a Star", "Maximum Homerdrive", "They Saved Lisa's Brain" and "Monty Can't Buy Me Love".

I don't mind the newer episodes myself but I think if you see Ian Maxtone-Graham as an Executive Producer, and you used to be a big fan of the early seasons, you're not going to like that episode much.

GerB40

Dots1982 wrote: »

The Simpsons and the wire stand out as the best TV shows I've ever seen. There are a couple of others I really like; Peep show, Generation Kill, True Detective, Extras, Cracker, middle era Love/Hate....Jeez after that I'm kind of struggling.

I thought the Simpsons was good up until the series where the first ep has Homer become a trucker. Since then I think I may have seen one or two funny episodes. The drop off has been incredible and makes you paranoid about every other show that you enjoy that it will eventually go cr*p.

Have to say though I think the Simpsons goes very unappreciated and people tend to focus on the later cr*p series rather than the absolute brilliance of the many early seasons.

I wouldn't worry about The Simpsons rise and fall affecting other shows. I can imagine the phrase "Let's not do a Simpsons on it" will be used in future.

And about people focusing on the shít Simpsons, they should do what I do. Look at The Simpsons as a before and after. The before i.e the good ones are some of the funniest, smartest, satirical pieces of television ever.

The after i.e the shíte ones are nothing. No redeeming factors at all and should be avoided. Just nothing..

Edit: Good call on The Wire and Extras by the way..

LuckyLloyd

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

It's impossible to pick an exact moment, although many have tried- the episodes with Armin Tanzarian or Jay Leno are two of the ones people have pointed to. I think it was a slippery slope, they gradually became less consistently funny until they just weren't funny at all.

The Garbage Commissioner episode where the town is moved at the end is a clear dividing line for me. Huge difference in quality before and after that imo.

Thargor

jacksie66 wrote: »

I did laugh my ass off at the carwash bit in the family guy crossover..

Because it was pretty clear it was Family Guys writers in the driving seat there.

Welsh Megaman

valoren wrote: »

When Skinner was actually Armin Tamzarian.

It was the jump the shark moment for the show.

Keep looking shocked...and move slowly towards the cake.

ancapailldorcha

There were a few cracks in seasons 7-8 but after season 9 was where things got daft and not in a good way. The movie was surprisingly good though nowhere near the early seasons' genius.

There's much better comedy about nowadays than the latest Groening slop. I've no idea why people still tune in to be honest.

rawn

The problem with the new episodes for me is that they're all over the place. The plot goes about 5 different zany directions before reaching a conclusion that is irrelevant to the premise.

rawn

Also, I agree with the poster that suggested they should age the characters. Maybe about 4 years. I'd watch that

gormdubhgorm

I think about 15 years ago then the stories seemed to get more abstract and zany.

The genuine subtle humour does not seem to be there anymore it seems to be anything goes now to fill up the half hour.

LuckyLloyd

Earthhorse wrote: »

There's a really good post over on reddit (used to be in r/simpsons, I think) that examines when the quality started to decline and why. There are multiple factors and it is around Season 8 or 9 that things start to go downhill. I like the approach he takes in the post where he kind of says it's remarkable we got that many good seasons; it's rare for a show to keep the quality going for so long.

I think it's the fact that the peak quality period (Seasons 5 - 9) is some of the best comic / satire writing in human history. Societal comment layered within a rich tapestry of political / movie / pop culture references - it worked on a variety of levels from 'Homer fell over' to 'that's a cutting one line dismantlement of the Republican party stance on immigration'. Almost every minute of every show in that period is hilarious. And then some moments are unbelievably warm and touching - like the song for Lisa's birthday, etc.

ancapailldorcha

rawn wrote: »

The problem with the new episodes for me is that they're all over the place. The plot goes about 5 different zany directions before reaching a conclusion that is irrelevant to the premise.

I didn't think there was a premise beyond "Tonight, Homer meets [insert current celebrity's name here]..."

rawn wrote: »

Also, I agree with the poster that suggested they should age the characters. Maybe about 4 years. I'd watch that

Nah, it's dead and there's better uses for your time such as Only Fools and Horses repeats.

C14N

Duggy747 wrote: »

Homer has been turned into this thoroughly unlikeable asshole, Moe is just all about suicide, Flander's has had his love for God dialed up to a million, Lenny & Carl are just a gay joke now, etc.

Maybe you already knew this but the term "Flanderisation" was named after the way that Flanders became a caricature of his former self. While he started out just being Homer's annoyingly perfect neighbour who has everything really good (loving family, nicer house, lots of friends) and being a good Christian was just incidental, they ended up just turning him into a punching bag for the American Christian right wing.

AndonHandon wrote: »

Did the main writers move to Futurama? That is a show that has far more wit than the Simpsons.

Some of them did and that was a show that never really dropped off imo. It was less bound by the need to stay current and pull in big viewers and the cancellation did them some favours since it gave time to recoup.

Honestly I don't know why Matt Groening keeps the show going at this point. He's already worth around half a billion and from what I know about him, he doesn't exactly seem like the kind of guy who lives like he has that kind of money. He could easily go and create another show too and it would still be successful, almost certainly more so than the Simpsons which reaches lower and lower numbers for viewership each year.

The Backwards Man

The death of Phil Hartman for me too.

'Hearsay and conjecture are kinds of evidence'

Turtyturd

Am currently watching through each season with the kids when I get some free time.

We are on Season 7 and the quality is still there but you can see it moving into the ridiculous stories and 'whacky' jokes that make the current episodes closer to Family Guy than The Simpsons.

There are so many great episodes across the early seasons with clip shows being the only real let downs.

My memory of it dying when I was younger was the all singing all dancing episode. I'll see if it still holds true.

Green Giant

Seasons 5-9 were television at its peak. Almost all of my Simpsons 'quotables' fall into this time frame. Season 4 was when it really took off before peaking in 5 with the Cape Feare episode

10 was the beginning of the slump, which had really taken hold around about series 14

UCDCritic

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I can't put my finger on it but watched one of the "newer" ones (as in last 10 years) and it was so bad compared to the older ones it's actually sad to see.

Where and when did it all go wrong because it strikes me that a lot of damage has been done to the cartoon's actual legacy (which it has) because maybe they should have stopped more than 10 years a go but I guess money got in the way.

When did it all go wrong?

It all went wrong when the original crew of writers walked out because they wanted a fairer share of the massive amount of money the show makes and, I don't know who exactly, Mat whoever, refused to share

The voice actors did get a massive pay rise, suppose they couldn't change them.

It's sort of similar with what happened with 'Friends' (Was that a sentence?)

The cast wanted a massive pay rise to reflect the amount of money the show was earning, and they got it. A million dollars an episode

Earthhorse

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I think it's the fact that the peak quality period (Seasons 5 - 9) is some of the best comic / satire writing in human history. Societal comment layered within a rich tapestry of political / movie / pop culture references - it worked on a variety of levels from 'Homer fell over' to 'that's a cutting one line dismantlement of the Republican party stance on immigration'. Almost every minute of every show in that period is hilarious. And then some moments are unbelievably warm and touching - like the song for Lisa's birthday, etc.

I don't disagree with any of that but the post I'm talking about analysed the rise and fall of the show.

Some people are saying that it started when Conan left, or Greg Daniels, or when Phil Hartman died but this guy kind of brought everything together. He includes things like the voice actor of Lunch Lady Doris passing. Those early shows were in part great because there was no editorial oversight from Fox (there still isn't as far as I know) so you had this huge pool of talent that were unleashed on issues they couldn't really talk about before; religion in particular. The Simpsons broke a lot of sacred cows and the truth is by the time Season 9 rolled around they really had said all they could say.

People say there aren't talented writers on the show but key contributors like John Swartzwelder and George Meyer stuck around for the show's decline. It's just a lot more complex than people like to make out.

Son Of A Vidic

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

When did the Simpsons stop being good?

Stopped? I never realised it was ever cool.

Captain Chaos

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Stopped? I never realised it was ever cool.

It was thee show of the early -mid '90s. Do the Bart Man playing in discos and all.

Earthhorse

Oscartheboxer wrote: »

This is nonsense, the old "they said all they could say" argument. The writing was so good in the golden period such that they could make anything funny. Everything was richer, it had soul, it had wit and the humour was original.

I agree with your assessment of the earlier years. But plenty of The Simpsons writers (like Greg Daniels) went on to be funny in other shows precisely because they had said all they could say with those characters. There's only so much you can do with the one set of tools.

Duggy747

C14N wrote: »

Maybe you already knew this but the term "Flanderisation" was named after the way that Flanders became a caricature of his former self.

Actually didn't know that, the more you know........:pac:

It does make sense though considering how he's now treated for just taking the piss out of the Christians and doesn't have anything else to offer to the show.

He's fallen a long way from the episode where he opened the left-hand store.

paddylonglegs

Season 9 was the end IMO.

Any Simpsons fan needs to watch the box sets with commentary on. It was released around 2005 and the writers, producers (groening, al jean, Conan OBrien) all comment. It's obvious that the shows they are commenting on are way better than what they're producing now, but they still defend the new stuff by saying it's a new market that they are televising too.

It's too little too late to try bring back Conan OBrien now, but would be great

deadybai

The episode where the went to Brazil was the first really really terrible episode. I remember watching and thinking 'wtf was that?' I still enjoy season 8 to that episode but season 3-4 5-8 were terrific

_Kaiser_

I think I stopped watching around Season 9/10 - just after the New York and Scorpio episodes (both classics!)

After that it became too polished and about "celeb" guest appearances and increasingly nonsensical plots.

Haven't watched an episode in years

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

Dots1982 wrote: »

When you speak to people about their favourite tv shows it rarely gets a mention. Had it been cancelled when it was good, it would have being totally different and would be mentioned as the greatest tv show at all time. This approach doesn't really make sense as the cr*pness of the later series shouldn't in theory detract from the excellence of the earlier stuff but it seems to do, therefore I would say it is underappreciated.

Couldn't agree more. A lot of people forget how funny it was in it's peak because they just think of the awful new episodes.

UCDCritic wrote: »

The voice actors did get a massive pay rise, suppose they couldn't change them.

Apparently they changed the Spanish cast a few years back.

Corvus Maximus wrote: »

Stopped? I never realised it was ever cool.

See above.

LuckyLloyd

Earthhorse wrote: »

I don't disagree with any of that but the post I'm talking about analysed the rise and fall of the show.

Some people are saying that it started when Conan left, or Greg Daniels, or when Phil Hartman died but this guy kind of brought everything together. He includes things like the voice actor of Lunch Lady Doris passing. Those early shows were in part great because there was no editorial oversight from Fox (there still isn't as far as I know) so you had this huge pool of talent that were unleashed on issues they couldn't really talk about before; religion in particular. The Simpsons broke a lot of sacred cows and the truth is by the time Season 9 rolled around they really had said all they could say.

People say there aren't talented writers on the show but key contributors like John Swartzwelder and George Meyer stuck around for the show's decline. It's just a lot more complex than people like to make out.

Just went back through episode lists again. Really you have brilliant episodes in Season 2 and 9, so you're talking about an eight year period (1990- 1998) where they were producing unbelievable content consistently.

I agree with you in your core point by the way - to produce that much unreal output over such a long timescale is a miracle, and it's impossible to tie the rise or decline to the involvement of any one individual.