When did the Simpsons stop being good?

Kermit.de.frog

I can't put my finger on it but watched one of the "newer" ones (as in last 10 years) and it was so bad compared to the older ones it's actually sad to see.

Where and when did it all go wrong because it strikes me that a lot of damage has been done to the cartoon's actual legacy (which it has) because maybe they should have stopped more than 10 years a go but I guess money got in the way.

When did it all go wrong?

salamanca22

season 8

AlanS181824

About 1995.

Bipolar Joe

I used to read the comics when I was younger. There was always rumours of a movie, so people would write in asking about at least four or five times a year. These were the only letters Groening would reply to directly, saying that if a movie was ever made, that would be it, no more Simpsons, like it'll be a last hooray. Movie happens, Simpsons continues, and everyone tries to keep Futurama, which has a massive fanbase, alive. I honestly don't think anyone involved in The Simpsons cares about it, any more.

GerB40

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I can't put my finger on it but watched one of the "newer" ones (as in last 10 years) and it was so bad compared to the older ones it's actually sad to see.

Where and when did it all go wrong because it strikes me that a lot of damage has been done to the cartoon's actual legacy because maybe they should have stopped more than 10 years a go but I guess money got in the way.

When did it all go wrong?

The Simpsons was the best cartoon for years, there's some episode I can nearly quote off by heart. Frank Grimes (or Grimey as he liked to be called) is in my opinion the best episode of any cartoon ever. But The Simpsons was making so much money and they got greedy. The new episodes are unwatchable and the shíte they produce these days are causing serious damage to the legacy of greatness they once we're.

It's a shame they didn't stop when they were on top of their game. Sure people would've been pissed off at the time but if they could see the utter tripe The Simpsons have become they would change their minds.

Fawlty towers lasted 2 or 3 seasons and John Cleese said "If they made another series and it dropped in quality it would ruin the good work they put into their previous work.

Same with The Office (the original).

Same with Extras

Same with Fr Ted

Only Fool's and Horses doesn't count because it's the greatest sitcom of all time.

Looking at that made me realise that it seems to be a difference between UK and US.

UK comedies (not including shít like Miranda and Mrs Brown's boys) seem to prefer quality over quantity, US comedies are the polar opposite.

So to answer your question, I don't know exactly where it went wrong, but I think I know why it went wrong. Money/Greed and controversially, US comedy more often than not is just not as funny..

DainBramage

Once I see its the newer looking animation I flick over

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

It's impossible to pick an exact moment, although many have tried- the episodes with Armin Tanzarian or Jay Leno are two of the ones people have pointed to. I think it was a slippery slope, they gradually became less consistently funny until they just weren't funny at all.

Kermit.de.frog

Put it this way, when I was starting secondary school the question would be "did you see the Simpsons last night?" - somehow I doubt that question is asked today.

I agree about Fawlty Towers - the reason it is so popular is because it was genuinely good and funny and probably some of it's popularity is that they stopped when they knew they could go no further with it.

Did the Simpsons change any producers or staff before it went really unfunny and mostly irritating? Anyone know?

Kermit.de.frog

GerB40 wrote: »

UK comedies (not including shít like Miranda and Mrs Brown's boys) seem to prefer quality over quantity, US comedies are the polar opposite.

Father Ted and Mrs Brown Boys can hardly be described as "UK comedies" since they are essentially Irish directed, Irish produced and Irish cast. Just sayin.

shruikan2553

Around the point when they had a different celebrity each week with some story revolved around them. I saw a few episodes and it has improved a bit.

mdwexford

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Father Ted and Mrs Brown Boys can hardly be described as "UK comedies" since they are essentially Irish directed, Irish produced and Irish cast. Just sayin.

MBB shouldn't even be described as a tv show tbh.

Super-Rush

Seasons 1 to 13 were fantastic. All the great quotes and episodes were from that period, particularly the Conan O'Brien years. Since then its relied way too much on celebrities. A lot of the fans moved on to South Park and then Family Guy.

Its still great to re watch those older episodes. I'm curreny halfway through season 4 for the millionth time.

Mackman

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Put it this way, when I was starting secondary school the question would be "did you see the Simpsons last night?" - somehow I doubt that question is asked today.

My wife is a teacher and she says all the kids love the new episodes. I think they changed what "it" is, now what's "it" is weird and scary.

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Did the Simpsons change any producers or staff before it went really unfunny and mostly irritating? Anyone know?

I always associated it with Brad Bird leaving in 1998. He was there from the start as an executive producer and left to join Pixar where he wrote the Incredibles and has been involved in pretty much all their movies since.

valoren

When Skinner was actually Armin Tamzarian.

It was the jump the shark moment for the show.

valoren

Season 4 is arguably the greatest season of television ever. Every episode is a classic, even the clip show.

Surprisingly, some of the recent episodes have really funny bits in them.

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

WesternZulu

The old ones seemed to have some sort of realism about them as to what the average American family had to endure and the episodes had a very endearing quality to them.

The new ones seem to favour 'wacky' humour that's not based on any form of realism of the day to day life of a typical American family.

Homer used to be this lovable character who you might call dim, but not an idiot, who tried his best to do what was right for his family.
In the newer episodes he's selfish and outright stupid and in no ways likable at all!

Franticfrank

Without a shadow of a doubt, it was when Phil Hartman died. Without Lionel Hutz and Troy McClure is went on a quick downward spiral.

"Apu, Mrs. Simpson claims that she *forgot* that bottle of... delicious... bourbon. Brownest of the brown liquors... so tempting.
[holds the bottle to his ear]

What's that? You want me to drink you? But I'm in the middle of a trial!"
[puts it down]

So the last episode with Lionel Hutz in my opinion, where he was an estate agent. Bad enough as that was, everything afterwards was a whole lot worse.

cloud493

The newer episodes aren't terrible, I find. Not the standard of say, 'Last Exit To Springfield' but still good.

iDave

I'd say around 98. It wasn't awful at that stage but the slippery slope began.

Dirty Dingus McGee

Season 8 was the last season you could make an argument it was getting better.

Season 9 was the first time it showed signs that the show wasn't improving but season 9 was top class overall and had some all time classic episodes like Bart Star,Simpson Tide and The Joy of Sect.

From season 10 onwards it went downhill alot and I think I stopped watching regularly after a couple of episodes of Season 18 which was 2006/2007 and I have seen only 1 epsiode of the simpsons since then (the episoide that was a parody of 24, it may have been the 400th episode).

The first 9 seasons were pure genius and I think the show peaked in the Mirkin and Wesinstein-Oakley years (seasons 5 - 8) were the show combined down to earth humour with loads of outlandish humour.The first 4 seasons are quite realistic.

EoghanIRL

mdwexford wrote: »

MBB shouldn't even be described as a tv show tbh.

Yes this .
Mbb is just so terrible . Worse than most stuff aired on rte and that's saying something .

Dirty Dingus McGee

Mackman wrote: »

My wife is a teacher and she says all the kids love the new episodes. I think they changed what "it" is, now what's "it" is weird and scary.




I always associated it with Brad Bird leaving in 1998. He was there from the start as an executive producer and left to join Pixar where he wrote the Incredibles and has been involved in pretty much all their movies since.

I don't think so as Brad Bird wasn't involved in the writing of the show.It was the writing that declined and lead to the shows demise.

mikemac1

Seasons 3-10 are some of the greatest TV ever made

Season 11 is where is went downhill

whisky_galore

GerB40 wrote: »

Only Fool's and Horses doesn't count because it's the greatest sitcom of all time.
..

When Del and Rodney got married and actually got rich, it went to pot. Flogging a dead horse if you will.

Think like anything.... you should get off the stage while they're still shouting for more.

newport2

GerB40 wrote: »

It's a shame they didn't stop when they were on top of their game. Sure people would've been pissed off at the time but if they could see the utter tripe The Simpsons have become they would change their minds.

Fawlty towers lasted 2 or 3 seasons and John Cleese said "If they made another series and it dropped in quality it would ruin the good work they put into their previous work.

Same with The Office (the original).

Same with Extras

Same with Fr Ted

Only Fool's and Horses doesn't count because it's the greatest sitcom of all time.

Looking at that made me realise that it seems to be a difference between UK and US.

UK comedies (not including shít like Miranda and Mrs Brown's boys) seem to prefer quality over quantity, US comedies are the polar opposite.

So to answer your question, I don't know exactly where it went wrong, but I think I know why it went wrong. Money/Greed and controversially, US comedy more often than not is just not as funny..

I think that's more a sign of the times that US vs UK to be honest. All the UK examples you give are relatively old (excluding maybe Extras). Or perhaps it's down to people like Cleese or Gervais caring about their work more than money? These days though, pretty much anything that is making money will be bled until it's dry.

gutenberg

My dad maintains that after a certain point, they should have allowed the characters to age, as a lot of the problems with the newer episodes is that they're just not credible as stories- all the episodes with Lisa's boyfriends etc.: she's 8! If they had allowed them to age they could have introduced new scenarios and story arcs. I know it would have changed the nature of it as the early seasons didn't have a narrative arc as such, but it could have addressed the decline?

cloud493

Only fools and horses doesn't count since theres only 3 episodes after the 'they get rich' episode. Doesn't tarnish the glory of the rest.

Oafley Jones

Before a lot of boards posters were probaby born at this stage. I mean **** it. It had a unbelievable few years and then they just beat it to death. It's so long that I'm wondering when the first of these threads existed. The slide was underway when boards.ie came online. It's that long. Can't we just let it be.

And the reason I'm posting here... If you enjoyed those glory years, you need to check out john Swartzwelders Frank burly detective novels. If your posting here you should know what he did on the Simpsons and those books have that same humour that's been long lost on the show.

valoren

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Before a lot of boards posters were probaby born at this stage. I mean **** it. It had a unbelievable few years and then they just beat it to death. It's so long that I'm wondering when the first of these threads existed. The slide was underway when boards.ie came online. It's that long. Can't we just let it be.

And the reason I'm posting here... If you enjoyed those glory years, you need to check out john Swartzwelders Frank burly detective novels. If your posting here you should know what he did on the Simpsons and those books have that same humour that's been long lost on the show.

Thanks for the recommendation. Will definitely check those out.

MagicIRL

I've found that the show seems to be getting more... "modern" when it comes to the episodes and what they deal with. What made The Simpson's great was the often off-the-wall scenarios and brilliant writing.

Remember when Homer finds his estranged brother, only to waste his fortune on a hideous car and bankrupt the company? Brilliant.

Or what about Frank 'Grimey' Grimes and his untimely death? What about the man, the myth, the legend; Hank Scorpio?

Oafley Jones

valoren wrote: »

Thanks for the recommendation. Will definitely check those out.

Here's the introduction of Dead Men Scare Me Stupid....

Well, they found Amelia Earhart. That’s the good news. Unfortunately, they found her in the trunk of my car. Boy, was my face red. I had a lot of explaining to do there. And after I had explained everything, they didn’t believe me! You probably won’t believe me either, come to think of it. Sometimes I wonder why I bother. It all began a few months ago. I was in the middle of a murder investigation.

“SOMEONE IN THIS STADIUM IS THE KILLER…Killer…killer,” I announced over the PA system. A mighty roar of surprise and anger went up. Everyone thought they were here for a free ball game. But there would be no double header today. Babe Ruth Jr. wasn’t here, despite what the posters promised. And they wouldn’t be seeing a race around the bases between a man and a tidal wave. Nor would the National Anthem be sung by an owl.

It was all a ruse to get them into the ballpark so I could ask them a few questions about a little murder I was working on. I’d gotten the idea for this ruse from a detective novel. I’ve always been an avid reader of detective novels. They’re full of useful tips that can help a detective like me – I mean one of my quality - do his job. I’ve always needed all the help I can get doing my job, because finding criminals is hard.


It's basically early era Homer as a detective and it's great.

cloud493

Matt Groening has spoken negatively principal and the pauper, if anyone cares to listen to the DVD commentary for the episode. Its an interesting listen.

THall04

"That 90's Show".......WORST-EPISODE-EVER!
The Simpsons had been going downhill for a few years before this piece of sh1te was broadcast , but this was the final nail in the coffin.

Earthhorse

There's a really good post over on reddit (used to be in r/simpsons, I think) that examines when the quality started to decline and why. There are multiple factors and it is around Season 8 or 9 that things start to go downhill. I like the approach he takes in the post where he kind of says it's remarkable we got that many good seasons; it's rare for a show to keep the quality going for so long.

Earthhorse

Oafley Jones wrote: »

And the reason I'm posting here... If you enjoyed those glory years, you need to check out john Swartzwelders Frank burly detective novels. If your posting here you should know what he did on the Simpsons and those books have that same humour that's been long lost on the show.

I read the first one, The Time Machine Did It, and have to say it was pretty lacklustre.

whisky_galore

cloud493 wrote: »

Only fools and horses doesn't count since theres only 3 episodes after the 'they get rich' episode. Doesn't tarnish the glory of the rest.

Better to go out with a bang than a whimper.

cloud493

whisky_galore wrote: »

Better to go out with a bang than a whimper.

I prefer to think those 3 episodes just don't exist.

Hibbeler

A mate of mine that was on the dole made it his mission a few months ago to watch every single Simpsons episode in order starting from the very beginning. Took him a couple of weeks but he did it.

He reckoned that it was around season 12/13 that the quality started to slide but that in the most recent couple of seasons the quality has picked up. I've watched the two most recent seasons myself and would agree.

Beano

whenever it was that Conan O'Brien stopped writing for them.

GerB40

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

It's impossible to pick an exact moment, although many have tried- the episodes with Armin Tanzarian or Jay Leno are two of the ones people have pointed to. I think it was a slippery slope, they gradually became less consistently funny until they just weren't funny at all.

In the brilliant 'behind the scenes' episode they actually called that plotline ludicrous. They knew it was shyte and in good ol' Simpsons fashion they weren't afraid to take the piss.

I was watchin a brutal episode once with a few on the lads and I remarked that it's like they got rid of all the good writers and got cheaper (and shítter) writers. Just an off the cuff remark. Turns out that's exactly what they did...

C14N

I've been ploughing through old episodes of the Simpsons for a while now and I'm up to season 11. A lot of people say that The Principal and the Pauper was the day the Simpsons died but I strongly disagree because season 9 was for the most part still very strong.

The drop in quality was a gradual thing, it wasn't like someone flicked a switch and it suddenly became what it is today, but I do think the quality did start decreasing around season 10 or 11. Thing is, at this point, it was still a good show, just not at its peak anymore. It does seem like it's just been steadily going downhill since then.

I kind of have an hypothesis that at any time from about season 20 forward, you can enjoy the first half of the series so by season 22 you can easily watch 11, by season 24 you can enjoy 12 and so on because the increasing crappiness of each subsequent season makes the older "bad" ones look relatively good.

GerB40

EoghanIRL wrote: »

Yes this .
Mbb is just so terrible . Worse than most stuff aired on rte and that's saying something .

Yet the Brits love it.. Our neighbours are an odd oul bunch sometimes.

Ricky Hatton loves D'unbelievables though so they at least some of them have a bit of class

Dr. Lollington

I remember watching the first ever episode with my sister and we were so excited we almost hugged the TV (Homer woulda been proud!). I absolutely loved it for years but it started to slip for me around the time of the Bono episode.

I find it unwatchable now and every character is almost a caricature of their former selves.
What was once the funniest TV show of all time (in my opinion), is now the most irritating.

I was never a fan of 'Friends' but must admit that the early episodes had some very funny moments and Chandelier in particular was really witty and lovable. Nowadays, that show makes my skin crawl.

Phoebe was always annoying but in the newer episodes it's like they turned up the annoying dial. They changed all of the characters completely. Chandelier is no longer funny and just fawns like a sap over Monica. She, incidentally, is the most annoying TV character of all time.

Just me here folks, I know what I'm talking about, I'm a Doctor of LoL's

Dr. Lollington

I remember watching the first ever episode with my sister and we were so excited we almost hugged the TV (Homer woulda been proud!). I absolutely loved it for years but it started to slip for me around the time of the Bono episode.

I find it unwatchable now and every character is almost a caricature of their former selves.
What was once the funniest TV show of all time (in my opinion), is now the most irritating.

I was never a fan of 'Friends' but must admit that the early episodes had some very funny moments and Chandelier in particular was really witty and lovable. Nowadays, that show makes my skin crawl.

Phoebe was always annoying but in the newer episodes it's like they turned up the annoying dial. They changed all of the characters completely. Chandelier is no longer funny and just fawns like a sap over Monica. She, incidentally, is the most annoying TV character of all time.

Trust me here folks, I know what I'm talking about, I'm a Doctor of LoL's

Generic Dreadhead

Between season 8 and 10. 8 was the last time it was at it's best, it started slipping over the course of 9 and 10. By 11 it was pretty poor. By 16 they had killed it

whisky_galore

GerB40 wrote: »

Yet the Brits love it.. Our neighbours are an odd oul bunch sometimes.

Ricky Hatton loves D'unbelievables though so they at least some of them have a bit of class

MBB is saucy seaside postcard / tabloid humour that many British and Irish seem to like, hence the ratings.
Like Marmite, you either love it or hate it.

Duggy747

That moment when the intro starts and you realise it's one of the good old episodes

Last one I saw I think was the Lady Ga Ga episode, sweet Jesus how the show falling. Homer has been turned into this thoroughly unlikeable asshole, Moe is just all about suicide, Flander's has had his love for God dialed up to a million, Lenny & Carl are just a gay joke now, etc.

Should've been brought round back and shot in the head years ago.

AndonHandon

Did the main writers move to Futurama? That is a show that has far more wit than the Simpsons.

Dots1982

The Simpsons and the wire stand out as the best TV shows I've ever seen. There are a couple of others I really like; Peep show, Generation Kill, True Detective, Extras, Cracker, middle era Love/Hate....Jeez after that I'm kind of struggling.

I thought the Simpsons was good up until the series where the first ep has Homer become a trucker. Since then I think I may have seen one or two funny episodes. The drop off has been incredible and makes you paranoid about every other show that you enjoy that it will eventually go cr*p.

Have to say though I think the Simpsons goes very unappreciated and people tend to focus on the later cr*p series rather than the absolute brilliance of the many early seasons.