Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Sinn Féin the most popular party in latest poll (mod warnings in OP)

Options
1…2021232526

Comments

  • Options
    #662
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    What's with all the bluster from people who defend Sinn Fein?

    Err.. never mind what Sinn Fein did or didn't do, look at Fine Gael and Fianna Fail!

    Why? Why look at Fine Gael and Fianna Fail? Why can't we look at Sinn Fein?

    But if you are going to go down the route of looking at Enda Kenny and Michael Martin... they haven't covered themselves in glory, but they have hardly had an "abysmal" record - mainly because neither was in power (or positions of power) when such abuses were taking place. Enda, of course, was guilty of fighting Louise O'Keefe, which should not be forgotten.
    There is not much that can be done to undo what happened in the past, except get justice for Mairia Cahill and make sure systems are in place to prevent it happening again.
    My children are currently in the education system, and I can tell you this government's record in protecting them is abysmal so far. Full stop.


  • Options
    #663
    Barely There
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    LOL at the hard-core Shinner supporters with their cries of 'prove this, or prove that' against poor Gerry.

    None of the mainstream political parties really want to prove anything against Gerry. He's a fantastic electoral asset for opponents of SF. He's been so for many a year and will hopefully continue in this role for many more.

    'Proof' is quite simply not required in the political sphere - Perception is King.

    The mainstream public do not believe Adams.
    Can they 'prove' he's lying? Probably not.
    Does it matter that they can't - Not in the least.:D


  • Options
    #664
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    This is why basic logic should be taught in schools.

    If I told a journalist that I was in Dublin all day on a particular date, and told a court of law that I was in Cork all day on that particular date, then I've either lied or committed perjury.

    You are frantically trying to argue that because it's unclear which statement was untrue, then I neither lied nor committed perjury, but apparently that's because logic is optional where SF are concerned.

    Exactly, that is the problem SF have on this issue.

    All they can do is throw random insults at whoever posts the evidence, they cannot bring themselves to explain it.


  • Options
    #665
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    There is not much that can be done to undo what happened in the past, except get justice for Mairia Cahill and make sure systems are in place to prevent it happening again.
    My children are currently in the education system, and I can tell you this government's record in protecting them is abysmal so far. Full stop.

    This Government is the first one to ensure that their teachers will be vetted. Vetting has been in place for new appointees for some time but this Government is extending it to existing employees.

    But I am not going down the whataboutery road any further.


  • Options
    #666
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Im not frantically trying to do anything bar get Godge to outline exactly what it is he is talking about - besides claiming someone is lying, but yet unable to pinpoint the lie. Basic logic is needed here indeed, and its lacking from some of the accusations.
    oscarBravo wrote: »
    This is why basic logic should be taught in schools.

    If I told a journalist that I was in Dublin all day on a particular date, and told a court of law that I was in Cork all day on that particular date, then I've either lied or committed perjury.

    You are frantically trying to argue that because it's unclear which statement was untrue, then I neither lied nor committed perjury, but apparently that's because logic is optional where SF are concerned.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #667
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    yay - more kangaroo courts. hang on, I thought you didnt like them yet here you are basically stating this instance calls for one.
    Barely There wrote: »
    LOL at the hard-core Shinner supporters with their cries of 'prove this, or prove that' against poor Gerry.

    None of the mainstream political parties really want to prove anything against Gerry. He's a fantastic electoral asset for opponents of SF. He's been so for many a year and will hopefully continue in this role for many more.

    'Proof' is quite simply not required in the political sphere - Perception is King.

    The mainstream public do not believe Adams.
    Can they 'prove' he's lying? Probably not.
    Does it matter that they can't - Not in the least.:D


  • Options
    #668
    Barely There
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,481 ✭✭✭Barely There


    maccored wrote: »
    yay - more kangaroo courts. hang on, I thought you didnt like them yet here you are basically stating this instance calls for one.

    I don't generally, but am willing to make an exception in the case of SF.

    They are enemies of our State and a danger to our democratic freedoms and extraordinary measures will sometimes be required to ensure their continued political irrelevance.


  • Options
    #669
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Barely There wrote: »
    I don't generally, but am willing to make an exception in the case of SF.

    I think that says it all really.

    They are enemies of our State and a danger to our democratic freedoms and extraordinary measures will sometimes be required to ensure their continued political irrelevance.

    They are a democratic political party in a democracy. Sorry if that petty democracy thing gets in your way.


  • Options
    #670
    gladrags
    Registered Users Posts: 6,028 ✭✭✭gladrags


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    If I told a journalist that I was in Dublin all day on a particular date, and told a court of law that I was in Cork all day on that particular date, then I've either lied or committed perjury.

    No

    That is dangerous in the extreme.

    In a court of law, their may be evidence to support why you said one thing to one journalist, and vice versa to another.

    This is why there aer courts to decide these issues, there are many types of evidence to consider, and underlying factors.

    This is true for any individual, and this is why the courts are in place.

    If it were left to you or me, or the media, or a political party, to make decisions based on bias, well then we would be back in the times of the Spanish inquisitions, or the Dark ages.

    Allegations are all we are dealing with here.


  • Options
    #671
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    maccored wrote: »
    Im not frantically trying to do anything bar get Godge to outline exactly what it is he is talking about - besides claiming someone is lying, but yet unable to pinpoint the lie. Basic logic is needed here indeed, and its lacking from some of the accusations.

    It is all in the links I provided.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #672
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    yes, links to various newspaper reports of people making accusations. great stuff. I wanted to know YOUR point though. YOU claim he lies on tv but not in court, yet you cant pinpoint what was said on either the TV or in court.
    Godge wrote: »
    It is all in the links I provided.


  • Options
    #673
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,795 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    gladrags wrote: »
    Allegations are all we are dealing with here.

    No; we're dealing with logic. In my example, can you explain how I neither lied to the journalist nor committed perjury?


  • Options
    #674
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Thats only half of it. Imagine if someone was to say you lied on one occasion but told the truth on a different one - but yet couldnt actually tell you when you were meant to have said either. That would be perfectly logical to you would it?
    oscarBravo wrote: »
    No; we're dealing with logic. In my example, can you explain how I neither lied to the journalist nor committed perjury?


  • Options
    #675
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Barely There wrote: »
    None of the mainstream political parties really want to prove anything against Gerry. He's a fantastic electoral asset for opponents of SF. He's been so for many a year and will hopefully continue in this role for many more.
    Which is why after all of Kenny's Dail privilege whining that Adams is currently the least popular party leader of Ireland's least popular party.
    Oh hang a minute...


  • Options
    #676
    Valetta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭Valetta


    maccored wrote: »
    I think that says it all really.




    They are a democratic political party in a democracy. Sorry if that petty democracy thing gets in your way.

    They didn't look very much like a Democratic Party yesterday.

    In fact, quite the opposite.


  • Options
    #677
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Barely There wrote: »
    I don't generally, but am willing to make an exception in the case of SF.
    "I usually use evidence and logic but when it comes to SF I feel I don't need to bother."
    Glad we've cleared that up.


  • Options
    #678
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    gladrags wrote: »
    No

    That is dangerous in the extreme.

    In a court of law, their may be evidence to support why you said one thing to one journalist, and vice versa to another.

    This is why there aer courts to decide these issues, there are many types of evidence to consider, and underlying factors.

    This is true for any individual, and this is why the courts are in place.

    If it were left to you or me, or the media, or a political party, to make decisions based on bias, well then we would be back in the times of the Spanish inquisitions, or the Dark ages.

    Allegations are all we are dealing with here.

    Ah yes, but that only works if there is other verifiable evidence. In Gerry's case, he told one story about when he knew about the abuse on TV and another in court. Given that it is Gerry's word against another as to which version is true, there is no possibility of a conivction for perjury as the reasonable doubt exists which is that he lied to the TV programme.

    You still don't seem to get it.

    A car is stolen one night on Ned's road. Ned tells the neighbours that he didn't sleep well that night and that he was up several times and saw two guys steal one of the cars on the road. The gardai arrest two guys. Ned gets scared and when called to court, says in court that he slept through the whole incident and saw nothing and his conversation with the neighbours was mistaken. Now, there is no way of proving perjury in that case because it is Ned's word against the neighbours. Did Ned tell a lie or did he perjure himself?

    Nobody knows the truth except Ned. Did he perjure himself in court? Was it bravado when talking to the neighbours? Nobody knows what is the truth but we can all conclude that at the very least Ned tells little white lies.

    Similarly, we know that Gerry Adams at the very least tells lies, and might well be a perjurer. We can't go further than that but we can go that far.


  • Options
    #679
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    by demanding answers to questions people all over the country want answered? How very undemocratic of them.
    Valetta wrote: »
    They didn't look very much like a Democratic Party yesterday.

    In fact, quite the opposite.


  • Options
    #680
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    maccored wrote: »
    by demanding answers to questions people all over the country want answered? How very undemocratic of them.

    They got their answer, all will be revealed next week.

    Then they ignored the democratic rules of the Dail in order to throw the toys out of the pram.


  • Options
    #681
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Valetta wrote: »
    They didn't look very much like a Democratic Party yesterday.

    In fact, quite the opposite.

    Who, The Labour Party or FG in not answering a question from the Opposition, mandated to ask those questions on behalf of those who elected them?


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #682
    Valetta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭Valetta


    maccored wrote: »
    by demanding answers to questions people all over the country want answered? How very undemocratic of them.

    No. By refusing to regognise the results of a valid vote.


  • Options
    #683
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    Godge wrote: »

    Similarly, we know that Gerry Adams at the very least tells lies, and might well be a perjurer. We can't go further than that but we can go that far.

    Every person in the world tells lies. If he's a perjurer then surely the courts would have had him on that by now? Then again, in your world Adams is the divil so ....


  • Options
    #684
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    .... voted by mainly people who are politically afraid of the party mcdonald is a member of. Joan should have just answered the question.
    Valetta wrote: »
    No. By refusing to regognise the results of a valid vote.


  • Options
    #685
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    'all will be revealed next week' isnt an answer. roll on next week mind you. lets see what the answer is.
    Godge wrote: »
    They got their answer, all will be revealed next week.

    Then they ignored the democratic rules of the Dail in order to throw the toys out of the pram.


  • Options
    #686
    Valetta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭Valetta


    maccored wrote: »
    .... voted by mainly people who are politically afraid of the party mcdonald is a member of. Joan should have just answered the question.

    Irrelevant to the point at hand.


  • Options
    #687
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,664 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    that joan should have answered the question that caused the sit-in? 'Irrelevant to the point at hand'? Hardly.
    Valetta wrote: »
    Irrelevant to the point at hand.


  • Options
    #688
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Valetta wrote: »
    No. By refusing to regognise the results of a valid vote.

    It's quite clear to anybody watching events in the Dail over the last number of weeks that the CC has questions to answer on his suitability for the post.
    Just like we the citizens are entitled to peaceful protest, so too are members of the Dail and I think MLD did the right thing and only thing open to her if she believes the gov are hiding something.


  • Options
    #689
    raymon
    Registered Users Posts: 2,774 ✭✭✭raymon


    maccored wrote: »
    that joan should have answered the question that caused the sit-in? 'Irrelevant to the point at hand'? Hardly.

    The incident was carefully choreographed to generate a populist story.

    Shame on Sinn Fein for denying others a chance to question the government.


  • Options
    #690
    Valetta
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭Valetta


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    It's quite clear to anybody watching events in the Dail over the last number of weeks that the CC has questions to answer on his suitability for the post.
    Just like we the citizens are entitled to peaceful protest, so too are members of the Dail and I think MLD did the right thing and only thing open to her if she believes the gov are hiding something.

    Still missing the point that what she did was quite undemocratic .


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #691
    Sierra Oscar
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 8,472 CMod ✭✭✭✭Sierra Oscar


    maccored wrote: »
    that joan should have answered the question that caused the sit-in? 'Irrelevant to the point at hand'? Hardly.

    She was suspended in line with the standing orders. I don't think she should have been suspended. However at the end of the day a majority of representatives in the Dáil, who were elected by the people of Ireland, voted to suspend her in line with the standing orders. Given those circumstances, trying to hold up the work of the Dáil in protest of the suspension is fundamentally anti-democratic.

    A number of options are open to SF to air their grievances about the Ceann Comhairle. One of them is to push a motion of no confidence, which I am sure might get some support amongst the opposition as a whole. But don't try and disrupt indefinitely the work of the parliament that has been elected by the people of Ireland.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement