Sexy street harassment

andrew

Comfortable Couch wrote: »

"It makes women uncomfortable", I didn't realise women had one hive mind.

This thread has ample evidence that it does make women uncomfortable, including many comment from women who have literally said that it does, which far outweigh any positive view of catcalling.

But lets take your argument that women aren't a hive mind at it's strongest. That would mean that some, maybe even more than 50%, like being catcalled. Even then you shouldn't catcall. Why? because some don't like it. If there's a reasonable chance that you might make someone uncomfortable by doing something you don't have to do, then you shouldn't do it.

People shouldn't do it but it shouldn't be illegal. That's reality.

I'm not, and nobody has said, it should be illegal. I'm saying people shouldn't do it.

eviltwin

Last_Minute wrote: »

Are there any women in this thread who might not see themselves as pretty or good looking in this thread who would actually like to recieve comments from guys such as the ones in the video?

I'd consider myself very average looking and I'm older so I never get compliments but if I was subjected to something like this I'd feel very intimidated and uncomfortable.

KERSPLAT!

MOD

Comfortable Couch banned, rereg.

Billy86

RoboRat wrote: »

Disagree, so if you see an overweight person you are entitled to say 'hey fatty, do some exercise' or 'hey gonzo, get a nosejob' to somebody with a big nose.

I have had my fair share of dealings with ignorant women in pubs/ clubs... saying hello and being told to fcuk off. I have an issue with that as I think a pub/club is an acceptable place to try and meet somebody and you don't know their relationship status so a simple 'sorry, I'm with somebody' would suffice but I think that every women has the right to be able to walk down the street without having to listen to what a bloke thinks of them.

I don't think that a bloke saying Hi or hello is harassment but anything about a woman's appearance is, be it good or bad.

Personally I think most places are perfectly "acceptable" to meet people in, but much of Ireland seems to have a bit of a weird hangup that drink must be involved which I'm not a fan of. A girl I was seeing for a while in Australia for example I just met in the park one afternoon and got chatting to. Over here a lot of people just shut down in that sense which really is odd to me, but there we go. But I guess that's a different matter for a different thread...

Meangadh

FunLover18 wrote: »

I don't understand how people can be so defensive about their right to 'compliment' a complete stranger. I never do it and I never would because I have no idea how they would take it or what they might read into which is fair enough.

This is exactly my point of not understanding people who even go to the bother of commenting on the women as they go past. You don't know them. It's weird. I know to get to know people someone has to break the ice, but a random comment as they walk past doesn't really cut it in my book.

Generic Dreadhead

Do we need one of these ridiculous forced "what happens will shock you" videos every ****ing day?
Yesterdays was a guy pretending to be homeless asking a homeless guy for food.
Tomorrows will be something else.

This whole thing is the definition of:
Storm in a Teacup

Lets all get rabble roused cause someone contrived to film something on the street

BrokenHero

Sam Kade wrote: »

What's so great about this woman that she attracts attention? She's plain enough in my view.

Just shows what a sweet shop the western world is for average looking women.

I see nothing wrong with the 'Hello' and 'Hi' stuff. Women are constantly saying they would like guys to approach them in everyday life and not when drunk in clubs and so there they are doing it.

As for the sleazy comments, well there are sleazy guys in the world, so I guess you have to take the good with the bad. I think they're just dickheads tbh and most likely wouldn't be much good to any women that did respond to their comments. No idea how donating to a feminist group is gonna stop sleazy guys from being sleazy though.

I'll tell you one thing though. I know a driver for Devine's (he's been with them for a long time) and from what I hear, women have no problem saying sleazy stuff to famous rich guys when they're in town and out and about in Dublin trying to shop or get something to eat during the day. They make all sorts of sexual suggestions to them by all accounts, slip phone numbers into their shirt pockets and many are not at all shy about letting their hotel and room numbers be known.

With my own eyes I've seen Russell Brand get cat called, have his arse pinched on a road just off Grafton St, by what must have been five or six different groups of women as he walked towards the Westbury and yes, I know he's famous and so that's "different" but is it really all that different? I mean, the fact that women will behave this same way when they deem a man worthy of it means that it's not a behavior exclusive to males. Girls with scream and holler after famous boys, and women will throw themselves at famous men. So it's all just really a case of what each sex feels it is is that makes someone worthy of them behaving in this manner. With men, it appears to be just someone that they want to shag but with women it appears that there is more to it than just that. Fantasy of being with someone rich and famous?

In any case, quit male-slut shaming.

magma69

So greeting someone 'good morning' sexual harassment? I'd feel like a proper cnut if someone said that to me and I just ignored them tbh. Obviously some of what was said was harassment too.

kiffer

I saw someone comment yesterday that 100 comments in 10 hours is only one comment every six minutes.
...
It takes me half an hour to walk from the luas to my home. On the way home the only people (unless I run into friends) who talk to me in the street are Chuggers... maybe one or two a day. Chuggers are immensely annoying.
Imagine running into a Chugger every 6 minutes.
In my 30 minute walk home that would be five chuggers.
And I don't mean the people standing with buckets shaking them I mean the "stand in your way, attempt to get eye contact, walk a few feet alongside you even after you've said no" chuggers.

That sounds awful.
For the chuggers and the men in the street passing comments the situation is in many ways similar.
Saying something to get a flicker of attention from a passer by is a zero cost action.
Otherwise literally no one would talk to them.
One guy could say "Damn, you're sexy" to a thousand women, annoying the crap out of half of them, irritating another 495 of them... but if five of them find him attractive enough to go "oh you..." and one of them sleeps with him it's been a success (for him).

shuffles88

Gone Drinking wrote: »

I dunno, one of the ones on video was "Hey Beautiful, have a good day", would that fall under harassment?

Its intimidating, even if they mean no harm. I went to New York this summer alone, on my first evening I went for a walk and I'd estimate at least 6 men made comments like this to me. The thing I noticed was it was usually a group of 2 or 3 men that made these comments so you can understand how a simple remark like that can feel unwelcome when you are alone.

andrew

BrokenHero wrote: »

I know he's famous and so that's "different" but is it really all that different? I mean, the fact that women will behave this same way when they deem a man worthy of it means that it's not a behavior exclusive to males. Girls with scream and holler after famous boys, and women will throw themselves at famous men. So it's all just really a case of what each sex feels it is is that makes someone worthy of them behaving in this manner. With men, it appears to be just someone that they want to shag but with women it appears that there is more to it than just that. Fantasy of being with someone rich and famous?

Well it's very different because:

1. People like Russel Brand are the exception not the rule - men rarely get harassed. In contrast, most women have experienced some form of harassment.
2. When men do get harassed, that's also a bad thing that shouldn't happen.
3. Women harassing men is less bad, because men don't have to worry that a given woman might threaten him or hurt him, given most men are significantly stronger than any given woman (any exception you could give to this will invariably be an exception which proves this rule)

In any case, quit male-slut shaming.

This isn't male slut shaming. It's shaming people for harassing others, not for being a slut.

OldNotWIse

Trade Execution wrote: »

Is saying hello to a woman harassment?

I have a really funny reply that I can't type because I'll get killed!

*dies inside*

andrew

Trade Execution wrote: »

Is saying hello to a woman harassment?

That depends entirely on the context. Concieveably, there are situations in which it could reasonably be construed as harassment, e.g. walking down a street, alone, at night while a dude stares at you and mutters 'hello.' That'd be pretty creepy, no? Or Walking past a group of lads, who have continued to chat amongst themselves while numerous other people walk by. But you walk by and they all stop talking, turn to look at you, and one of them says 'hello'. Also a bit weird, no?

Tiddlypeeps

BrokenHero wrote: »

I mean, the fact that women will behave this same way when they deem a man worthy of it means that it's not a behavior exclusive to males.

It's not behaviour exclusive to males. The conversation in this thread so far has been framed in a way that pains a scenario of men catcalling women, but I don't think at any point people were saying this is acceptable behaviour for women but not men. Deliberately forcing another person into an obviously uncomfortable situation for no reason other than your own amusement makes you an asshole no matter what gender you are.

I've been part of a few hen parties and the way some women feel it's acceptable to act towards men just because it's a hen party is disgusting. Some men are into it and play along for the craic, but most are very obviously uncomfortable and try to ignore or try to get away as quick as they can.

IamtheWalrus

Billy86 wrote: »

They must have finished work very early that day if the construction site was still open by the time they had finished drinking.

A lot of construction is done at night when businesses are closed.

biko

Trade Execution wrote: »

Can someone define harassment?

It's like when someone is asked to leave, then showed the door but they just keep popping up yknow?

smoking_kills

andrew wrote: »

That depends entirely on the context. Concieveably, there are situations in which it could reasonably be construed as harassment, e.g. walking down a street, alone, at night while a dude stares at you and mutters 'hello.' That'd be pretty creepy, no? Or Walking past a group of lads, who have continued to chat amongst themselves while numerous other people walk by. But you walk by and they all stop talking, turn to look at you, and one of them says 'hello'. Also a bit weird, no?

Trade Execution wrote: »

Is saying hello to a woman harassment?

Yes, and looking at them is Stare Rape......eyes down and try not to walk into a lamp post.

RoboRat

Billy86 wrote: »

Personally I think most places are perfectly "acceptable" to meet people in, but much of Ireland seems to have a bit of a weird hangup that drink must be involved which I'm not a fan of. A girl I was seeing for a while in Australia for example I just met in the park one afternoon and got chatting to. Over here a lot of people just shut down in that sense which really is odd to me, but there we go. But I guess that's a different matter for a different thread...

I agree and you're spot on that we have a hangup that drink must be involved but to say hello to somebody in a park/bus/train/whereever and strike up a conversation is one thing, to say Daummn you're fine or ask a woman outright for her phone number is another thing... and walking beside her for 5 mins is just damn stalkerish.

bear1

I'm curious, have any men here ever had this sort of attention from women? Or is it predominantly a male thing to do?

RoboRat

I've been part of a few hen parties and the way some women feel it's acceptable to act towards men just because it's a hen party is disgusting. Some men are into it and play along for the craic, but most are very obviously uncomfortable and try to ignore or try to get away as quick as they can.

This is very true, been out a few times and if I done to a woman what was done to me, I would be up for sexual assault.

I'm curious, have any men here ever had this sort of attention from women? Or is it predominantly a male thing to do?

A few instances with hen nights and a few when I have been out cycling. Got my ass pinched many times in pubs, hopefully by women but regardless of gender, it shouldn't happen.

kiffer

andrew wrote: »

Well it's very different because:

1. People like Russel Brand are the exception not the rule - men rarely get harassed. In contrast, most women have experienced some form of harassment.
2. When men do get harassed, that's also a bad thing that shouldn't happen.
3. Women harassing men is less bad, because men don't have to worry that a given woman might threaten him or hurt him, given most men are significantly stronger than any given woman (any exception you could give to this will invariably be an exception which proves this rule)

This isn't male slut shaming. It's shaming people for harassing others, not for being a slut.

1. Yes.
2. Yes.
3. ... The knife is a great leveler. The strength levels of men and women are closer than people think. Much like videos of cats chasing off bears I wouldn't put as much stock in the size/wieght/strength differences. Having been kicked in the crotch and punched in the face by a number of Irish women over the years I can say that what they lack in upperbody strength they make up for in a willingness to harm.
I remember one night one of the girls decided that she thought it would be hallarious to bite the face of one of the lads... using her teeth she opened up a a gash across his cheek just under his eye, she also used her nails a lot. I still have a scar from the time we played basket ball and she decided that stripping the ball meant grabbing my wrist with one hand and raking my forearm with her other hand's nails, then picking the ball up afterwards. After 18 years or so it's faded a bit but it's still visible.
I've no doubt that these women are exceptions to the rule as well... but the idea that these actions are less serious because men are, in general, tall and stronger is just weird.

Irish Stones

Gone Drinking wrote: »

I dunno, one of the ones on video was "Hey Beautiful, have a good day", would that fall under harassment?

Basically this is how I stopped a girl on the street and then she became my wife

razorblunt

bear1 wrote: »

I'm curious, have any men here ever had this sort of attention from women? Or is it predominantly a male thing to do?

Yeap, tons of stares.

Me fly was open.

Irish Stones

bear1 wrote: »

I'm curious, have any men here ever had this sort of attention from women? Or is it predominantly a male thing to do?

Yes, I had!
And it was absolutely embarassing...

Donnielighto

Is it ok to comment on a particular item of clothing? I love funky clothes and have asked on a few occasions where stuff was bought other times I would have just said something like great hat etc, thats hardly an issue is it?

bear1

Irish Stones wrote: »

Yes, I had!
And it was absolutely embarassing...

What happened?

RoboRat

Women harassing men is less bad, because men don't have to worry that a given woman might threaten him or hurt him, given most men are significantly stronger than any given woman (any exception you could give to this will invariably be an exception which proves this rule)

A lot of women are a lot more inclined to strike a man in public because they know, should he strike her back, there will be a lot of people there to intervene - I have seen this first hand on many occasion when I worked the door.

I have also had a drink thrown over me when I told a woman on a hen night to piss off grabbing my ass and subsequently got thrown out of the pub because she said that I was harassing her.

Its not all about size, there are other social issues to contend with.

magma69

andrew wrote: »

That depends entirely on the context. Concieveably, there are situations in which it could reasonably be construed as harassment, e.g. walking down a street, alone, at night while a dude stares at you and mutters 'hello.' That'd be pretty creepy, no? Or Walking past a group of lads, who have continued to chat amongst themselves while numerous other people walk by. But you walk by and they all stop talking, turn to look at you, and one of them says 'hello'. Also a bit weird, no?

First example most certainly isn't harassment. A lot of people say hello or give a smile when passing others at night. It's happened to me loads of times from both women and men. I suppose as a way of showing you're not a threat.

Sounds if you had your way, men and women could not communicate at all with each other unless they know each other. This alienation and paranoia of each other is terrible for society. One of the few positive things about this country is the warmth and friendliness people. In New York nobody makes eye contact with each other. It's horrible.

If someone, man or woman, is uncomfortable with someone saying hello to them, then I'd suggest them getting some therapy because that isn't a normal reaction.

SVJKarate

darced wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

This is why some men see nothing wrong with making comments! To be so lacking in empathy as to fail to see why making these comments would make a woman uncomfortable is one thing, but to be so stupid as to think a woman should be 'happy to get the compliments' because you don't think she's hot is frightening!

The comments in the video were for the most part not compliments. "Hey, D-A-M-N!!" is not a compliment; it is a public declaration of arousal. Any woman should be quite concerned to hear such a thing unless she is actually looking for it, which on the street is almost never.

She was walking with determination at a pace which clearly signalled an intent to go somewhere, which should have been a clear indicator that she did not want to interact with strangers on the way. Had she been hanging around a park smiling sociably at strangers it's fair to say she may have been open to receiving chat-up lines.

Paying a compliment is only considered genuine if it is specific, courteous and spoken in a friendly tone. If a woman is standing in a checkout queue and another woman smiles to her and says "Oh I love your shoes" it's a non-threatening compliment. A man loudly saying "Hot DAMN!" as he stares at her breasts / face / legs / hips is not going to seem like a compliment.

As others have said though, this video is imbalanced and made purely for the purpose of being shocking. Yes, the behaviour of the men in the video is brutish, and in some cases worryingly creepy, but on any given day a woman will most likely also receive courteous, genuine, caring and empathetic attention from men who hold doors open, offer their umbrellas, offer them discounted prices on shop goods or freebies with their coffee etc. I'm not suggesting that this makes it okay for others to cat-call, what I'm saying is that among the population of men there are as many (probably more) decent & caring men as there are idiots.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

RoboRat wrote: »

A lot of women are a lot more inclined to strike a man in public because they know, should he strike her back, there will be a lot of people there to intervene - I have seen this first hand on many occasion when I worked the door.

I have also had a drink thrown over me when I told a woman on a hen night to piss off grabbing my ass and subsequently got thrown out of the pub because she said that I was harassing her.

Its not all about size, there are other social issues to contend with.

Not sure if it's just an Irish thing because of the whole respect your elders being pretty big here, but middle-aged women definitely exploit the power dynamic between them and young boys. I'm sure we've all seen some woman getting way too far into the personal space of a fellah thirty years younger than her and making suggestive comments. Any eejit can see the poor lad is very uncomfortable but she knows he's not going to tell his auntie's friend or whatever to fúck off, and she can just pass it off as "teasing".