Woman killed, 7 injured in garda chase outside Kildare

The Muppet

Barely There wrote: »

You really should have stopped there.

Perhaps but i'm not a sheep, An innocent woman died last night , the questions I rasied and others need to be answered.

Curly Judge

Iranoutofideas wrote: »

Said on Newstalk the occupants of the Polo are travellers.

I think they said they were a gang of travelling burglars.
Whether that is a gang of burglars who travel or a gang of travellers who burgle is not clear at this stage.
The bit about them crashing through the toll barrier at Portlaoise seems to have been what alerted the Gardi in the first place.

PrettyBoy

All 5 suspects discharged from hospital, no arrests made yet.

The Muppet

TheNog wrote: »

No it is reported they were possibly involved involved in a number of burglaries in the north Tipperary area

http://www.independent.ie/news/innocent-woman-killed-and-seven-injured-after-garda-chase-ends-in-tragedy-innocent-woman-30689186.html

Even still if a pursuit occurred even from an unpaid toll it would mean something more serious is behind the reason why they were failing to stop. Sometimes pursuits start with no obvious reason known to Gardai at the time of pursuing.

I accept that but we've all seen such maneuvers on TV and it always for serious crime the safety of other road users is always of primary concern to the police carrying out the stop.

The media reports a boxing in maneourve which could mean either an attempt to box in the Polo to stop it involving 2-4 Garda patrol cars or it could simply mean one patrol car was trying to keep the Polo on the motorway because pursuits generally are safer on the motorway as opposed to high speeds on country roads. At this time we simply do not know.

Guess we'll have to wait on the outcome of the investigation so.

whiskeyman

PrettyBoy wrote: »

All 5 suspects discharged from hospital, no arrests made yet.

link??

Indo said this morning:

The five males remain in hospital today with serious injuries, but they are not believed to be life-threatening.

The_Captain

FionnK86 wrote: »

I have a feeling the criminals involved in this one, were not scumbag youths from a disadvantage background. I believe they probably had a comfortable upbringing funded by their relation to thieves, you know them type of people.

The kind of people who have a knack for travelling

Laois6556

Of course it's the scumbags fault that the woman died but the gardaí have to answer questions if they tried a manouvre that put an innocent persons life at risk.

TheNog

The Muppet wrote: »

I accept that but we've all seen such maneuvers on TV and it always for serious crime the safety of other road users is always of primary concern to the police carrying out the stop.
.

The same happens in this country too. When pursuits get too dangerous they are called off. The pursuing Gardai don't want people getting hurt. The Garda driver of the patrol car has actually a lot more to lose than anyone else involved if someone is injured or killed

ChippingSodbury

bucketybuck wrote: »

A lot of armchair refereeing here towards the guards when we don't have the faintest idea what actually happened.

If a police car is right beside the fleeing suspect car then you know what, actually no I don't want them to stop and let the scumbags get away in case an accident happens. I do want them to try and force the other car off the road. I do feel for the innocent woman who got caught up in this but thats just hindsight ...

I'd say that is cold comfort to the family of the poor lady who was killed. "Catch the baddies at all costs". Would you feel the same way if it was your brother/ sister etc. killed as a result of a pursuit? I know I'd rather have my loved ones still around and the odd baddie escape (to be captured another day...)

Having said that, I sincerely hope the gardai followed their pursuit protocols to the letter and all blame is placed with the polo occupants. They've got a tough job and 99% of them do it extremely well for little thanks from the public.

RoboRat

I hope to fcuk that the driver of the polo is charged with murder, probably will only get 'dangerous driving' and a slap on the wrist but he should be tried for murder.

toxicity234

very sad news. poor Lady. Rip.

As for the garda. Some here say don't chase them.
These are the same people that would say if the garda had stop chasing them and this happen. that the garda should be chasing them.

The people in the polo are to blame. Not the Lady. Not the Garda. There scum and should be treated as scum.

pc7

toxicity234 wrote: »

The people in the polo are to blame. Not the Lady. Not the Garda. There scum and should be treated as scum.

Totally agree, but I have absolutely no belief in justice in our system here, I'd wager some of those involved already have previous form. They will get light (if any jail time), it'll all be poor them, bad home, alcohol, drugs and other excuses. I'm sick of it, innocent people suffering. The people terrorized by their home being burgled but these shi*s and that poor girl losing her life and her family will never EVER get over this and these F**kers will get off scot free.
RIP

kupus

Im so sorry for this and condolences to the poor girls family. I dont blame the garda, this is squarely on the shoulders of the scum that were driving the polo and the judges and lawyers and other associated hangers on that are coining it in with free legal aid.

I wonder when names are given how many convictions the polo occupants will have between them.
The law and justice of ireland is a joke and its the ordinary people that are the punchline.
Unfortunately for the girls family they have to pay the cost of this joke.

Iranoutofideas

I just can't understand why the Gardai are so under resourced in this country and the likes of the HSE and Irish Water get money thrown at them no questions asked. The same goes for the prison service. We need more and we need to jail people who are a danger to society not people who refuse or can't pay a fine

ChippingSodbury

toxicity234 wrote: »

very sad news. poor Lady. Rip.

As for the garda. Some here say don't chase them.
These are the same people that would say if the garda had stop chasing them and this happen. that the garda should be chasing them.

The people in the polo are to blame. Not the Lady. Not the Garda. There scum and should be treated as scum.

Sometimes, there is no easy/ correct solution: you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Nobody knows whether or not the Polo would have crashed into someone else. All I'm hoping is that the gardai made the correct choices in this case and continue to do so in the future. If that means sometimes letting a car get away, so be it.

Egginacup

RoboRat wrote: »

I hope to fcuk that the driver of the polo is charged with murder, probably will only get 'dangerous driving' and a slap on the wrist but he should be tried for murder.

How could he POSSIBLY be charged with murder?

obriendj

Egginacup wrote: »

How could he POSSIBLY be charged with murder?

Because he killed someone...

But more likely death by dangerous driving. Which I believe is 10 years.

Egginacup

Iranoutofideas wrote: »

I just can't understand why the Gardai are so under resourced in this country and the likes of the HSE and Irish Water get money thrown at them no questions asked. The same goes for the prison service. We need more and we need to jail people who are a danger to society not people who refuse or can't pay a fine

Has it not dawned on you yet?
The rich who run countries want more money. That more money that they want is your taxes. Instead of your taxes going to things that benefit YOU they want theat money to go to THEM. That means cutting the services that your taxes should provide but then pocketing the difference when your taxes aren't lowered.
They've come up with a crafty way of doing it too. They bankrupt countries and then tell people that the belt needs to be tightened. Lots of people actually fall for this trick and are so convinced of it that they yell at people who complain about it.

Only little people pay taxes - Leona Helmsley

kupus

Iranoutofideas wrote: »

I just can't understand why the Gardai are so under resourced in this country and the likes of the HSE and Irish Water get money thrown at them no questions asked. The same goes for the prison service. We need more and we need to jail people who are a danger to society not people who refuse or can't pay a fine

THere is a revolving door system of dealing with scum, how many times have we read that cops did their job only for the judge to let the offender off on his 50th conviction.

Cops must be pi55ed off that they are doing their jobs only for a pr1ck in his nightgown to let offender off.

HOw would a lot of you feel if you were doing your jobs and your manager came along and completely disregarded all the previous work you have done for that project, and told you to start again.

Im not a cop shill and I have no problem laying into them if I think cops are not doing their jobs, but the reality is they are but they are not backed up in many cases by their judges.
One case recently where a garda couple in mayo or sligo got the sh1te beat out of them and the offenders walked away.

I know many of you talk about supermax prisons in usa and how they are privately run and wish nothing like this happens in Ireland.
But the revolving door system is free legal aid and has paid for many lawyers and judges in these recessionary times.

Justice in ireland is an industry and like any industry you follow where the money from so if its trying to get your client off his 51st conviction so he can make even more convictions you will do so.

This is called repeat business and its the bread and butter of any business.

Cyber Ghost

So the traveler folk are still in hospital?

No doubt well have their women outside screaming about what lovely lads they are and that the guards should shot for putting them in hospital

Curly Judge

ChippingSodbury wrote: »

Sometimes, there is no easy/ correct solution: you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. Nobody knows whether or not the Polo would have crashed into someone else. All I'm hoping is that the gardai made the correct choices in this case and continue to do so in the future. If that means sometimes letting a car get away, so be it.

I think the bastards should be chased to the gates of hell!

jezko

Egginacup wrote: »

How could he POSSIBLY be charged with murder?

"death by dangerous driving" ?

They were not just Driving dangerously!

They used this Car as a Weapon, used it to evade capture without any thought to the chasing Cops and every other road user along that motorway .... They had a choice to stop, they didn't and have used this car to Kill someone, Nothing else but Murder.

To the Victim RIP.

To the Killers you should Burn for this.

harry Bailey esq

Did I read correctly that the occupants of the polo where aged between 13 and 33?That don't sit right,no matter which way you look it.The guards have been quite public about ongoing operations against organised burglary gangs using the main roads out of Dublin,and have indeed had some success in that regard,but I've lost count how many fatalities I remember from police pursuits in this country.Baldonnel is about a 5min chopper ride away,the air support unit should have been scrambled,the boys in pursuit would have pulled back,and and let other units further ahead block the off ramps or deploy those stinger things.They were on a motorway,so they had these scumbags contained to a certain extent,with some coordination from the air this tragedy might have been avoided.God love the poor woman and her family,and hopefully a swift recovery for the two cops

harry Bailey esq

Cyber Ghost wrote: »

traveler folk

I was trying to imply this in my post above,but mention travellers around here....well we all know how that usually turns out.

ChippingSodbury

Curly Judge wrote: »

I think the bastards should be chased to the gates of hell!

And kill any innocent people who happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time along the way?

Nice one...

RoboRat

How could he POSSIBLY be charged with murder?

Murder: the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another.

Unlawful: yes
Killing: yes
Premeditated: debatable but if you drive into somebody at a high speed using your car as a weapon then IMO, thats premeditated.

Will they get charged for it, no. My point was that they should get charged for it.

sweetie

harry Bailey esq wrote: »

Did I read correctly that the occupants of the polo where aged between 13 and 33?That don't sit right,no matter which way you look it.The guards have been quite public about ongoing operations against organised burglary gangs using the main roads out of Dublin,and have indeed had some success in that regard,but I've lost count how many fatalities I remember from police pursuits in this country.Baldonnel is about a 5min chopper ride away,the air support unit should have been scrambled,the boys in pursuit would have pulled back,and and let other units further ahead block the off ramps or deploy those stinger things.They were on a motorway,so they had these scumbags contained to a certain extent,with some coordination from the air this tragedy might have been avoided.God love the poor woman and her family,and hopefully a swift recovery for the two cops

Recent burglaries in my parent hometown had some lads as young as 13/14.
Suppose you could call them apprentices.

Such a tragedy for that poor woman's family, RIP.

Makes me think why can't there be a system of preventing access or even alerting people when trying to join the motorway during situations like these.

Idbatterim

astronomical sums for the welfare budget, bank bailout, public and civil servants pay, perks and pensions, but not for a properly funded guarda siochana and prisons! Its one area Id be happy to pay more tax for!

Put the judges into the rough areas as part of their studies for a year, instead of behind closed gates in D.4 and 6 etc!

get a few high powered armoured cars and simply smash them off the road... a car or two in front and behind to stop other traffic... 5 lads in a polo, officers from 3 counties involved in the chase, 5 people in what I am assuming was a 1 litre polo!

Barely There

The Muppet wrote: »

Perhaps but i'm not a sheep, An innocent woman died last night , the questions I rasied and others need to be answered.

Of course you're not a sheep.
You're a very special and unique little snowflake who's able to come up with loads of 'theories' based on practically no information what-so-ever.

bucketybuck

harry Bailey esq wrote: »

Did I read correctly that the occupants of the polo where aged between 13 and 33?That don't sit right,no matter which way you look it.The guards have been quite public about ongoing operations against organised burglary gangs using the main roads out of Dublin,and have indeed had some success in that regard,but I've lost count how many fatalities I remember from police pursuits in this country.Baldonnel is about a 5min chopper ride away,the air support unit should have been scrambled,the boys in pursuit would have pulled back,and and let other units further ahead block the off ramps or deploy those stinger things.They were on a motorway,so they had these scumbags contained to a certain extent,with some coordination from the air this tragedy might have been avoided.God love the poor woman and her family,and hopefully a swift recovery for the two cops

Bullshit post.

You know absolutely nothing about this specific incident. You have no idea if it was feasible to scramble air support, if other cars should have blocked every road in a 50 mile radius with stingers or whether the scumbags were contained or not contained. You know nothing about it so I would suggest you stop pontificating about what you would have done.