The Flash

Spon Farmer

I’m going to see THE FLASH this morning and so spoilers are fine as I won’t look for a response until tomorrow night.

In the various histories and reboots of DC comics has Nora being murdered and his father blamed always been Barry’s backstory?

Or did that come later as a result of a CRISIS reboot?

And who is/are the murderer/murderers in the various timelines?

Has Barry ever gone back in time who identify the killer without interfering or does he never time travel again after FLASHPOINT ?

Spon Farmer

Saw it this morning and loved it.

Funny and a lot of fun and a few heartbreaking moments. A pity that we probably won’t get anymore but I do hope that Gunn brings Barry into the DCU soon and that it is this kind of fun.

Keaton is great as always and Sasha Calle did great but wasn’t in it nearly enough.

Since Gunn is making Blue Beetle a part of his timeline I hope he brings her back too.

The action is great and VFX were very good except when Barry is in the SpeedForce looking at people in different moments of time and in the faces rescue scene at the start - they look like they from a video game.

It is very strange that they left the faces looking so unreal.

Big Gerry

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120719999#Comment_120719999

Does Keaton have much screen time in the film ?

Hes the only reason I would want to go and see it.

Penn

Heard online that the director has said the CGI looks like that on purpose because it's supposed to be how Barry sees it due to the speed he's moving at.

Drumpot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120723600#Comment_120723600

There was a ropey CGI part of the movie that you could explain away.

But there were other parts when it felt more just poor CGI then intentional. The CGI of flash in BvS where superman goes rogue and is fighting the JL was far better then for example the opening scene of this with the babies so I don’t think they can explain it all away like that.

Penn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120723633#Comment_120723633

Yeah I was kinda guessing the same, but haven't seen the film yet so can't fully comment. I saw spoiler clips of a certain part of the movie, and good god it looks horrible.

Agent Coulson

Saw it yesterday and it's grand that's about for me.

Sasha Calle was very good as Supergirl

Michael Keaton was fantastic as always just a pity Batgirl was canned and his scenes in Aquaman 2 have been axed.

Some nice cameos and easter eggs.

Spon Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120723475#Comment_120723475

I don’t know how to answer as to how much screen time - I thought it was a lot but you might not.

However he is fantastic and If he is the only reason, I would say it is worth it.

Spon Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120723600#Comment_120723600

I find that hard to believe - why is the SpeedForce showing people like they in a video games? How does going fast cause that?

The baby just look like a doll. The dog looked real and the nurse looked real.

Spon Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120724274#Comment_120724274

I didn’t know he was the Batman in that batgirl movie (I didn’t even know Batman would be it it) but they said it was so bad that they aren’t releasing it so it must be awful.

And I didn’t know he was going to be in AQUAMAN 2.

Spoiler Warning

Was it intended that he would replace Affleck in the “Snyderverse” films? Was THE FLASH originally meant to end with Keaton getting out of Bruce Wayne’s car not Clooney?

Spon Farmer

It would be great if Keaton was Batman in a DARK KNIGHT RETURNS adaptation.

Gunn’s Batman movie is going to involve Damien as Robin so Batman will be long established. Would Keaton be the wrong age to play Bruce Wayne in the DCU ?

Drumpot

Jesus fking Christ, RTE movie review poscast actually spoils one of the big surprises at the end. WTF is wrong with reviewers ? Don’t give away bits of movies that might be nice shocks to people viewing the movie, how hard is that?

Fysh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725582#Comment_120725582

The Batgirl film being dropped from release is widely speculated as being financial engineering at the behest of David Zaslav, the CEO of the new company that WB is part of after a recent merger. It's not so much "this film is terrible" as "if we vault this, we can write down the production costs as losses against our tax burden", as I understand it.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725941#Comment_120725941

That's basically it. Warners canned it to write it off for tax reasons - meaning IIRC, it can never actually be released now? After then, you had this retrospective campaign by the outrage industry online to try and smear the film, that it looked a bit shït anyway so no great loss.

gmisk

Saw today it was decent, as usual with these things far far too long and far too much (at times bad) CGI. But Ezra Miller is fine as a lead (if you can ignore his errr let's say strange personal life). Can see it making decent money it's a crowd pleaser and some good humour. But it isn't even the best superhero film out ATM (the new spiderman is on another level). 6/10

Spoiler Warning

The family stuff was well done I thought. Nice to finally see Nic Cage as superman (the CGI on that wasn't great...) Same goes for the whole multiverse running about arena tbh. Christopher Reeves ah memories.

One of the highlights was Keaton..the George Clooney cameo was fun too. It really did show how dull and meh Affleck has been as batman, hopefully that is the end of him.

Other cameos of Reeves (good CGI) and Slater (not so good CGI) fine.

Oh and nice surprise to see a Derry girl in a DC film ha.

The White Wolf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725834#Comment_120725834

That seems about right, as if you seeve through Rotten Tomatoes it's full of amateur critics that don't know how to properly review a film without spoilers. These are the people that decide whether a film is "good" or "bad".

Even Bradshaw in the Guardian casually gives away the entire plot of these films in his reviews. It's almost as if this is their way of showing utter contempt.

Agent Coulson

Rotten Tomatoes really has just become Rotten.

banie01

Honest opinion folks?

If you are a middle aged dad who has hated and been immensely disappointed by every DC adaptation post Nolan's Trilogy apart from The Batman?

Is this film worth a watch? Or should I just keep the crisis on infinite earth hopes for a decent adaptation pinned on the animated version on the works?

When I saw I hated the post Nolan stuff I mean it, the Batman v Superman movie broke me. It mangled and crushed my love of Batman and left me screaming Martha at inopportune moments...

All they really needed to do was a shot for shot remake of Batman:The dark knight returns...

I mean that worked for Michael Mann with LA Takedown/Heat 😁

Anyway, Is it worth a visit to my local cinema?

gmisk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727489#Comment_120727489

It's a lot lighter than Batman v superman.

Overall it is pretty meh.

If you want to see a better superhero film go and see the new spider verse one.

steve_r

Coming from someone who didn't think the previous DC movies were great, but didn't hate them as much as others:

I enjoyed this, felt it sped along (appropriately enough). Miller is very good in the role (again ignoring the baggage he brings).

Spoiler Warning

The Keaton Batman films were a huge part of my childhood, so it was a huge deal to see him back on screen in a substantial role. I found myself wondering how I would have found that film if I hadn't had that attachment to the Keaton films. I think I would have enjoyed it - I think they took a lot of the details that made the character iconic, the suit, the batmobile, the cave, the quips and as a whole I felt it really worked.

Both Keaton and Affleck were great in their interactions with Miller. There's a similarity there with what Marvel did with Iron Man and Spider-man, but I think it worked well here with the two characters bonding over the shared experience of the death of a parent.

Sasha Calle very good as Supergirl - not given a huge amount of screen time but impressive when she was there.

The cameos got a lot of attention, but in the main, they are just fan service. The final one at the end caught me off guard and could be very interesting in the future if they go in that direction. They didn't really show us the lay of the land after the dust has settled so I'd say they are looking to figure that out.

Across the Spider-verse is very good, and deals with a similar topic, however, I think this runs it close. Given that Spider-verse is only Part 1 it's not exactly comparing like with like.

santana75

Twas very hit and miss. There was some really great parts and some not so great. The actress playing supergirl was excellent as was michael keaton but the story itself was strangely hollow. I never bought into the whole family dynamic there was just no chemistry there and so it was a bit flat. Someone likes Chicago though, not one but two songs including 25 or 6 to 4 which I've never heard being used in a movie

Spon Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725834#Comment_120725834

That is why I don’t watch trailers or clips and I’ve never bothered with reviews - although I have lately watched a couple of Mark Kermode’s reviews out of curiosity (after I had watched a film, not before) as I have seen him talk about cinema and the industry.

I gave up on his FLASH review though - five minutes in, maybe longer, and he was stammering through explaining the basic plot.

Spon Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727489#Comment_120727489

I didn’t hate the other Snyderverse movies so I can’t advise you on whether it is worth it but I am curious as to what being a middle aged dad has to do with it.

Spon Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120728595#Comment_120728595

It did not feel like 2 and a half hours.

Brief_Lives

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727489#Comment_120727489

I'm probably the same age as you... 44?

I loved "The Man of Steel" and the 4 hour version of "The Justice League" hated Batman Vs Superman.

The Flash is a goodd movie, if you liked the above 2 I mentioned.

ps The 4 hour Justice league movie is amazing...

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120729063#Comment_120729063

Who do you think I'd have to endure the film with if I didn't bring my kid?

If it's bad he has to listen me continue bitching about the travesty that the original releases of DC movies have been.

If it's actually good? I have to listen to him crow about the exception that was worth the 3hrs of my time.

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120729569#Comment_120729569

The Snyder cut was decent but it really does expose the problem with trying to compress so much story into the original release running time. The studio needs to carry the can on that one for hoping that snippets of fan service would be enough whilst butchering the plot.

Spon Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120729909#Comment_120729909

How are people supposed to know you mean bringing your son? You could have meant going on your own and arranging for someone to babysit? Any number of other things. Etc.

If your son likes the movies why would you bitch about them to him? Just find someone to take him.

Or whatever.

Anyway I asked because I thought it relevant to be being able to give you an answer.

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120730026#Comment_120730026

Christ you're a barrel of piss scented sunshine aren't you?

Even disregarding the explanation you have worked so hard to find issue with?

It may well be that I am referring to "generic middle aged dad" one who is generally a bit tired and given my prior dislike of Snyderverse and DC, asking folk of a similar bent, if the movie is worth my time.

As for my son, he's an adult, we still do things together on occasion and guess what? It may shock you a little, but we bitch and complain to each other. Me about the Snyderverse and him about having a grumpy middle aged Dad, it's the little things ya know 👍😉

Spon Farmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120730045#Comment_120730045

You the one with hate for the movies and in your own words “bitch” to your kid who likes the movies.

How am I the pessimist?

And there no hard work to take an issue with anything - I asked a question, you answered. There is no issue because I don’t know you.

And how is anyone supposed to know what age your kid is?

You are bizarre.

Let that be the end of it.

Spon Farmer

Has Nora’s murderer always been a mystery in the comics?

Slydice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120727489#Comment_120727489

My feeling from the films you leaned positively towards in that post and the films you leaned in the other direction... I'd say this film falls in the other direction.

A shot for shot of The Dark Knight Returns! Yes, want! Give! Happy to have it as a two parter as well. Might even feel right too. In front of them though, they either go a short-route and do it as a disconnected once-off that might just leave a bunch of audience out and so might lose money or they take a long route a build it from scratch as a pivot point in a long ended multi-film story. Either way, both feel like the money folks would say no to the immediate loss of money or the risk of taking the gamble on the long term vision.

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120730348#Comment_120730348

Thanks for taking the time to lay out your thinking.

Your critique aligns very much with my own and even if it's an echo-chamber effect,I appreciate it. (And all the other replies too).

Fully agree with your take on the studio choices. Butchering the story, continuity and broader tie in aspects of a movie and hoping that a nod to fan service can pull a majority along? Seems to be the corner that WB have painted themselves I to again and again.

I may give it a skip in the cinema but I'll no doubt still watch it when it hits the streamers.

Foxtrol

It was fine, which is probably a good rating for the DCEU. Like most of their movies, the biggest issue with this movie is that it isnt earned at all so it doesnt work or have the impact like it could/should. Just throw a bunch of characters together without developing them.

Can't be certain whether it is because of Miller's offscreen issues or not but I found Barry incredibly unlikeable until the last quarter of the movie, which I can't see as being their goal. It was as if someone was trying to show a quirky character but their only source was watching other teen and superhero movies/shows and presumed doing quirky things = likeability.

I normally go easy on CGI but this in many, many parts was absolutely diabolical. I've no problem with the odd effect, scene, green screens, or stuff like characters looking weightless but this movie just looked horrible. Them coming out afterwards with excuse that it is supposed to look weird would be fine if it was a one off thing but you can't have the core driver of the storyline and most of their 'surprises' look like PS2 level quality. Either do it in a way that is passable quality or don't take on this kind of movie.

Their approach to the multiverse is what they had to do for the movie but to me made no sense. The ending also made

Spoiler Warning

the thing pointless. Barry's 'sacrifice' to make things right is completely negated by him deciding seconds later to still change things a different way which we are beaten of the head with earlier in the movie would change the past and the future. He didn't learn anything, he is just as selfish as ever - he just wanted an ending where he got his way without the whole world ending.

Biggest concern coming out of that is the praise Gunn gave to it and how he is lining up the director to take on Batman. This is the same director who made the choice to have the big set piece of the movie have

Spoiler Warning

Batman fight in a big nothingness of the desert in the middle of the day

The White Wolf

Spoiler Warning

The fake cameos didn't bother me but apparently Teddy Sears had no idea his image was used. That's kind of fucked up alright. Why go to that effort of using an Arrow verse actor and not even ask him to do a quick appearance?

Agent Coulson

Looks like Black Adam out performed it

$55m opening 3 days

Projecting a $64m opening 4 days.

They expected at least $70m in the opening 3 days.

Black Adam did $67 in its opening 3 days.

Might need The Rock to do the numbers on it to show that it really is a success.

IncognitoMan

I was worried during the opening set piece that we were in for another Thor Love and Thunder but thankfully it does settle down after.

It's good, I did like it but we are very firmly in the zone of DC movies are just made in a very similar way to Marvel movies now.

It's better than a lot of the more recent Marvel offerings it has to be said but it is very much of the same style now.

Some genuinely funny moments. Some nice call backs and Easter eggs. Some dodgy CGI, some better.

I really dislike the way they have Flash run when we are seeing him run but it is what it is.

Some will love the last 20 minutes and some will hate it.

It's a 7/10 kinda movie. Good fun overall but unlikely I'll revisit.

dublinman1990

Andy Muschetti has said that there was about 4 hours of footage of this movie available in post-production.

https://movieweb.com/the-flash-four-hour-cut/

WB had told him to cut down 90 minutes of footage on the cutting room floor.

However he did say that while he was cutting the footage before it went out in cinemas. He said he was happy with the version that went out to them but also wants fans to eventually see the 4 hour cut of the movie.

Now I would be very interested to see what happens in this 4 hour cut of the movie. We could see an another trend of campaigns under the guise of #ReleaseTheMuschettiCut being frequently put up on social media to get this 4 hour cut of the movie released either on home video or in cinemas sometime in the future.

It is like the Release The Snyder Cut all over again.

IncognitoMan

"It is like the Release The Snyder Cut all over again."

It won't be though. Release the Snyder cut was so massive because the butchered version of JL we got was so obviously so far away from what a Snyder film would be that it made everyone want to see what he had.

The Ultimate Cut of Batman vs Superman showed us already that Snyder had a better cut of a film waiting to go as well. Plus JL started out with the idea it would be a 2 parter.

Basically there was enough there to warrant a campaign to see it.

I'm not saying we don't get a longer version released on WB streaming service down the line but it definitely will not carry the same weight.

I'd imagine much of what was left on the floor wouldn't be a massive departure from what we seen released.

Whereas, Joss JL and Snyder JL are completely different movies.

Spon Farmer

I don’t see how THE FLASH resets the timeline for the DCU, like Gunn said it would.

Spoiler Warning

Unless Clooney is going to be Batman and Ezra Miller is going to carry on as Barry but I can’t see either happening. I wonder if they asked Clooney to shave?

And is Jason Momoa staying on as Aquaman? With Cavill ans Gadot out, I would much prefer the roles be recast. Bring Momoa back as Lobo later.

Mitch Connor

Spoiler Warning

I was hoping that Clooney would be Bruce Wayne going forward and that the new 'batman' movies would actually be Batman Beyond.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120732929#Comment_120732929

Think it was Gunn trying to build hype but his out that he wasn't lying is that they in cannon introduced

Spoiler Warning

that there are a never ending number of multiverses that can span different time periods. Opens the door for DCU to be reset in a new multiverse

AMKC

Just seen it. It was on average film. Nothing special about it and very predictable too. There was a nice few laughs in it do so better than Fast X but not as good as GOTG 3.

Ii was a 5 out of 10 film and too much badly done cgi too although there were some cool slow mo moments in it.

Spon Farmer

Temura Morrison scene was priceless especially when Barry mentions his wife being a queen and he looks at her sleeping on the armchair.

Did he tell Barry “**** off” before hanging up? I was laughing and missed what he said.

PTH2009

Spoiler Warning

So is Ben Afflicks Batman gone back to his home planet getting lost along the way and George Clooney is the new Bruce Wayne/Batman ?

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120750557#Comment_120750557

Presume the

Spoiler Warning

universe Barry ends back up in will not be seen again anytime soon after Aquaman 2 credits roll. From the options filmed they seem to have gone for the most out there one because there is zero ramifications.

The very questionable multiverse logic has left them massive wiggle room now to include any actor they want in Gunn's DCU

PTH2009

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120756155#Comment_120756155

It's mad were in a 'battle of Multiverse theory's' between the MCU and DCEU

silverharp

this has lost the studio a couple of hundred mil.

https://twitter.com/ERCboxoffice/status/1672622967686320130

Drumpot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120759754#Comment_120759754

Sometimes box office just doesn’t add up. This is like an Oscar winning movie next to morbius.

pixelburp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120756493#Comment_120756493

It's mad the multiverse has become so prominent in pop culture in the first place; a relatively niche trope of Sci-Fi for a long while, now it's (everything) everywhere (all at once).

Beyond the MCU and DC universe you got the Spider-Verse and the aforementioned Daniels movie. I'm sure I've forgotten other instances.