Cork GAA Discussion Thread

thinkstoomuch1

well done to midelton cbs Wednesday and the three in a row is on, but ard scoil are huge task in the semi final.
Sean o leary Hayes who i mentioned before imo has huge potential as future cork full back, Liam gosnell and kiltian oke and Arthur nanago are excellent hurlers.
Two years ago when midelton won the under fourteen munster I gave a post where I mentioned oke and nango as I said there strong running was a joy to behold and they created and scored goals in that under fourteen game.
Tim Collins again doing great coaching with midelton.
The harty cup is next week and midelton must get out of the group.
The talent is there, it just needs good coaching and unlike last year play lads in their best positions, not midfield or forwards at corner back.

hopefully the glen will win but now cork have a new management pat horgan needs to step up from play and score in big finals.
He has under performed in two county finals and all bar one game at club this year for the glen from play, cork hurling not just the glen needs him to deliver to-morrow as he doesn't perform in a cork county final imo it doesn't bode well for inter county championship.
There is no excuses for them like the last two finals where they had just one week preparation, they had two weeks and they know there opponents inside out.
I firmly believe they were not that bad last year in were tired minds and bodies and the jubilee old glen team in the pre match build up wasn't ideal but this year they played challenges matches in waterford and kk so preparation has been ideal.

If they start well and don't allow sars take a lead and with the last quarter they are in the game I think they can win.
Sars have the nous how to win cork finals so it will be close but the glen winning could start a city revival especially among the rockies who won again tonight and are in another county under twenty one final v duhallow.
The glen I'm expecting big games.

Another player in the lime light is Cian mccarthy and while I don't doubt he's very good club hurler and ace free taker primarily there's now talk he's great option for cork next year.
Too many times the word great is handed out like sweets at a party.

People think he should get a cork recall.
Based on what exactly??
He's got 2-52 and is cork top scorer so far in the club scene.
But when you delve behind the numbers he's got only 2-9 from play in six matches and actually before last week win again eirns own which sars were always going to win up to then only got something like eight points from play.
Imo scoring huge totals put him in lime light but like horgan of cork most of there scores are from frees and Cork hurling is so soft referring wise that any foul is given horgan and mccarthy get huge scores from frees or placed ball but once outside the comfort zone of cork club hurling they struggle from play against top teams.
Some of the referee in cork is poor and not the individual are to blame more the protocol is blow on everything.
Get a game where a good referee like Fergal horgan in munster allows more engagement and it's no wonder cork team struggle outside munster.

So in six games mccarthy got 2-9 so far from play yet he's deemed worthy of a Recall.If that's the case all things being equal surely wille Leahy Imkoilly who in just four games, yes two less than McCarthy actually got 15 points from play like mccarthy and is winning ball and scoring in every game at senior this year.
That's my point there's better then McCarthy in cork that deserve trial next year but of course mccarthy name is a bigger profile. Again not in any way am I questioning he's commitment to cork
Or he's effort at club, all my point is at intercounty imo he's not at the standard required.
Nothing more nothing less.
This is not also me singling him out either but when you see mentions of him getting recall to cork surely it's reasonable on the field of play to give reasonable debate and give the other side of the view.
After all gaa is well were told meant to be democratic.

Leahy has had an outstanding season and delivered from general play also winning ball.
Now give him the same coaching mccarthy got in cork and there's a chance He would be better.
People have a view ah it's harsh to critse mccarthy. But surely my point can be seen is not just as harsh to give mccarthy recall and take the place of Leahy when imo it's harsh on Leahy and others that never get a chance.
Fergal lordan the management called Leahy be looked at by cork.
He got few training games but that was it.
Hopefully the new management will highlight he's name amongst john Cronin also as worthy of games as all i read last year was no player not cork panel that should been there. Simply simply not true.
Alan dennehy charville should have been there in challenges also.

Fair enough people have there opinion but surely old cork games should be looked at to see mccarthy wasn't good enough.
Unbelievable, like cork club scene is poor but Cian mccarthy in he's comfort zone perform there yet he's way off senior inter county standard as proven time and time and time Again.
Mccarthy imo is outstanding from placed ball only and that alone doesn't merit place cork hurling team who aim is to get back to winning all ireland.
Harsh yes unfortunately so but compared to the Kilkenny this world it's so true. And the reason I mention kk is there the standard cork have to aspire to.. Only when we do can we stop referencing kk imo.

Again nothing personal against the player but soley purely field play not up cork standard.
The last few years he performed with sars and been club teams year yet for cork can't perform.
What exactly has changed to he's game to merit a Recall.
He doesn't score enough from play and bar a few balls in the air any good centre back will beat him as he lacks mobility.
Take two years ago when he was on the cork panel.
In 2013 he got 4-37 again he was outstanding for club and the second highest scorer from six games.
Again from play just 2-9 not exactly great reading from six games imo.
If he was a work horse centre forward like timmy mccarthy or cooper imo you justify it as he would be playing a specific role.
Even sars fans will say he can't do that type of role as he won't last a full game if so as in the summer he's no pace to do that.
As the statics showed he doesn't really do enough from play to justify him being a scoring forwards.
2-9 from play in six games may look good in cork but the truth is its not, Conor lehane got 2-7 from play in one game that year in the county final.
Pa Callaghan with no senior hurling for cork got more from play in less games this year and I'd guess Harnedy got more or similar to mccarthy from play in less games for imkoilly.

This year pa Callaghan has the biggest individual score in one match 2-9 v imkoilly but unlike mccarthy twice and horgan who have got scores of fourteen and thirteen points in games Callaghan actually got two five from play out of the two nine and not just placed balls.
In just two games he's got two ten from play.
In two games Callaghan got a total of 2-18 but he's conversion from play is outstanding and yet it shows himself and Harnedy and lehane when fit a country mile the best imo forwards in the cork club scene as from play they will score.
Callaghan has fair enough decided not to play for cork but he's performance imo show the standard that top scoring forwards in cork should be getting.
I would honestly think if you compared mccarthy and horgan scoring from actual play to ten county players from and outside it they would be poorly ranked. Never judge a book by its cover I would think but imo people looking at players with huge scores in games shouldn't just look at the numbers, more so break down the numbers.

When you correlate that to mccarthy score from play and horgan it's showing there imo simply not scoring enough from play.
Tj Reid, Callan, many more inter county player in tougher championship then cork are scoring more from play at club level consistently in games week in week out. A club Player wanting to perform for cork Or any county must do above what other club players do as club and inter county is a huge step up in standards.

Who should be dropped instead of Cian mccarthy is the other question also.
Harnedy no way, cadogan, cooper, lehane simply not.
Cooper has he weak spots to he's game but at least he can move and break tackles and win ball. Yes he doesn't have the scoring finese of mccarthy from placed ball but he's suited to a modern game that mccarthy isn't.
Cronin gets a lot of critsim from cork fans but he's imo much better from open play than McCarthy as again he's more mobile.

Again in cork games imo must be read at at face value for future management as all it takes is look old video cork and apart from Galway years ago in the gaelic ground and a sub in all ireland final when he played well he was consistently off inter county standards.In the all ireland final replay mccarthy didn't stand out and can't last a full game at intercounty so was called ashore.
Nothing imo has changed to he's game since then that I see how he make it now when he couldn't then.

Mccarthy all credit due has heart hunger and is tough and good in the air but unfortunately in the modern game he's well off the pace and pace and mobility is king.
I feel for him like I felt for Andrew sullivan in the football in both had huge courage and work rate And if more talented players were like them they would great but the type of game the football and hurling team imo needs to play isn't suited to them in the modern game.

Time and again in a fast game he's exposed mobility wise and while cork county club scene he looks good put him in to munster club even or league hurling he's way off the pace.
Kilmallock last year held him easily.
O loughlin who is not inter county Centre back held him to two points from play and imo won most ball and that was in extra time.
Two points from play in munster club hurling is not what I expect from player wanting cork recall.
Mccarthy needs to perform in games outside the comfort zone of the cork set up.
No doubt he's outstanding free taker and was brilliant in levelling that game but just cause you score frees imo is not enough to start.
We already imo have that problem with horgan who is outstanding from frees but for both club and county doesn't always do enough from play.

This is hurling not American football imo in you don't have the luxury of within a scoring zone to make a sub and bring on a scorer and then whip him off the next play.
Hurling at intercounty is a seventy minute games and it requires forwards to contribute from play not just dead ball.
Shefflin never actually trained frees with kk he trained frees on he's own.
In training he played games.
Cody give him no such luxury and no wonder why he's greatest ever hurler and he also sale cody made him the player he was.
You see unlike cork, kk are ruthless and no soft culture allowed to set in.
People wonder then why cork are so far off kk it's not even funny anymore.
Every year it's the same stuff at times, lads excelling at club level but numerous chances with cork yet get recalled.

Paul haughey again had an outstanding season for midelton, Brian corry in the past for ballymsrtle, mccarthy for the same club, yet every winter they get recalled for trials etc or challenge games or the league when it's still not realised there just good club players and some pundits decides write articles claiming they deserve recalls when there performance don't merit them imo.
Haughey for the last few years was called up by jbm and didn't make it yet jbm still repeated mistakes every winter.
Haughey should imo make the club team of the year but that doesn't mean another recall in January for cork.
Mick Dempsey said once in kk, you have draw the line with players in you give them chances but if it's not working you need something new.

We had it last year with cussen, good club season as no outstanding full backs Were in cork and pat Ryan a good manager said cussen got a raw deal with cork.
I'm sorry now but he got more chances than others under two different management teams with cork and didn't perform. But yes he looked great for sars, no doubt about that.

There's nothing wrong with that and should be applauded for there club service but my point is there not cork standard and for cork to win all ireland have to be realistic, calling up players that had numerous chances for cork on looking good in a poor championship is not the way forward.
There has to be a realistic assessment of players wanting to play for cork imo at senior in both codes.

I can never fathom the logic how ex players had numerous chances perform well in club get recalled despite numerous times failing at senior.
How can team move forward when they keep going to the past.
With years of senior training with cork you would expect mccarthy to lead like others ex county players at he's club but he's not added any new dimension to he's game for senior to compete with the kk.

No wonder most in cork think sars winning is not good for cork hurling and this view before even sunday saying mccarthy should be considered by cork shows sars like last year with will Kearney imo will get token jesture to senior set up as sars county champions if the they win again. Yes credit to sars if they win but it shows no fresh change in cork hurling still if they win.
Credit due that Paul leopld a fine young hurlers and this year minor Liam healy are getting game time but overall that sars team is pretty much the same as previous years.
Who ever wins sunday has to go to waterford in the Munster championship.
None of there teams left would be of huge concern bar Ballygunner possibly but I still ain't convinced by Denis Walsh management in big games.
On the other side, waterford team have no reason to hugely fear sars either.

Kearney is a fine club Player but no way was he good enough for cork.
Conor sullivan performed cork regularly and he should be recalled as should eirns own killan Murphy.Sullivan has proven himself to be fair with cork.
Cunningham of the glen deserves a call up over mccarthy and hopefully a glen win will earn him that.
Moylan also of the glen should get a few games.

Rather than go back to mccarthy cork should develop the likes of John Cronin, wille Leahy outstanding club season and while club season is poor in cork fact is he's young and should be given proper coaching with cork to see can he developed.
Mccarthy had he's chance with cork but didn't make it on the field. Surely Cronin etc deserve the same chances as him.
Surely at least Leahy Cronin, young Kevin o Neill, Sean Hayes are better to try and develop.
All had excellent seasons to be fair and some in different cork teams previously at different grades.

We had the absoultey nonense in the football of recalling players that failed under previous management yet get recalled to the football.
You should only recall a player from a previous set up if one is he's game has since further development or if he never got fair chance with other management teams.

George hook raised the question with Darren cave world cup inclusion in he's game what actually is different to years ago that merits him on the panel.
In at ulster he's not always performed in the big games.
The same concept with Cian mccarthy.
You watch he's style of play and it's exactly like it was few years ago when he was excellent in the cork set up yet in the big games for cork he's easily defended against.
I like mccarthy, and am huge fan he's drive etc and before two years ago said should got game time.
However he's had he's chances to be fair.

In Kilkenny no way would he be recalled. Yet in cork there's the old problem in a failure to judge the difference between inter county and club.
We had views last year saying George durrant was one to watch for cork.
He was from kerry so the hype went in to over drive.
A fine club Player and he will be always a fine fine player for club but like so many other fine club Player all over the country it doesn't mean there senior standard.

The problem with mccarthy is maher, the padraig Walsh, the up and coming Diarmuid Byrnes of limerick etc are all good in the air so they will cancel out mccarthy in the air and unfortunately have more pace and mobility to then cause mccarthy problems.
Mccarthy before would have been an option at full forward but now colm Spillane and if fit and Anthony Spillane are like sean Hayes potential future target full forwards as there mobile more than McCarthy.
The likes of Harnedy cooper, then hopefully in time Kevin o Neill and Leahy and Cronin are better options for cork at half forward imo.Hopefully with Wayne Sherlock involved, Shane o keoffe who is a fine ball winner will get game time with cork.
Cian I have no doubt if sars win today will be chief scorer but it's from general play he needs to also improve before he should get a cork recall.
Newcestown and valley, I don't mind who wins but would said to a poster when asked for predictions difrent competition i said newestown would take some team to beat them.
Fair play to them and you would feel for valley but only can be one winner.
Two very good hurlers Chris o leary of valley rovers ex Hamilton cbs captain and he's ex team mate luke meade on the other side imo are players should in time play with cork.

thinkstoomuch1

As for fionn Murray with out a doubt an outstanding talent and definitely a superb player with skills.
I felt poor coaching never fully developed he's game to eradicate the weak areas and develop he's strength so imo while he had natural talent he's inconsistent performance for cork would imo never make him a great great really really great player.
Joe brolly correctly questions Gooch as not been great as he's failed to perform in big games.
Murray didn't perform in munster final regularly that the Gooch did so imo Murray wasn't a great player.
Yes in 99 against limerick and mayo poor defences he was good but against the great defender's like meath mark reilly when he played almost all the second half he was absoultey cleaned out.
Fancy bicycle kicks are all well and good and may be some thinks it's great but not my cup of tea great players perform in all ireland finals.
Murray isn't great as imo it's discredit joe kavanagh and colm o Neill who I'd regards as great.
Kavanagh got two brilliant goals in two different all ireland final on beaten cork teams.
Colm o Neill in beaten cork team six years ago got goal few points and v Donegal in a semi final was brilliant but he got little ball.
Donnacha o connor and of course goulding stood up when the need was greatest for cork v down.
There great players.

A great talent Fionn Murray was yes he was but imo a talent that never reached the heights of great footballer in he could on he's day be great but was inconsistent imo.
He was coaching the barrs minor team and imo if developed in time and not rushed and run before he walks in coaching he has coaching potential to be good and possibly great.
Again you don't have to be a great player to be a great coach.
In some instances the average player makes a better coach as he was so limited himself as a player he fully understand the concepts and dynamic of what he didn't have so in coaching he brings that to improve other players skill set.

He's next step should be the senior or under twenty one role with the barrs.
Then if so consider him for cork jobs but not before time.
Coaching in itself is a process of learning yet some in cork think you can have elite jobs and learn as you go.
You can't as the big teams ruthlessly punish any mistakes in the big big games.
I keep saying it cork gaa needs a change of attuide at all levels.
Only and only when that happens will progress begin.
Go to kerry, Dublin, kk and the attuide from players to coaches to fans is ruthless pursuit in field of play for victory.
In cork though at times critsim purely performance related isn't welcomed at times. Cork with old habits fool no one but themselves.

As for the talk the ccb with sherlock and the rock involved forgive those in the strikes I wouldn't be convinced as it is Kingston bringing them in not the board, just like landers didn't get the minor or senior jobs but ring brought him in and ger Cunningham face won't fit with the ccb, couldn't even get interview in 2006 but only jbm wouldn't been brought back.
The board are like an elephant they never forget.

zetecescort

Sars 0-8 Glen 0-10 HT. great to see the Glen get stuck in and make a game of it so far

thinkstoomuch1

The glen have a great chance now and Moylan mcdonnell doolin and cunningjham are playing excellent but horgan again third county final has with talent he has in best hurler cork he's absoultey woeful and nothing from play and missed crucial frees and not showing for ball

He needs have second half good and Cork not just glen need him perform as if not that third county final he's not justified he's performance so doesn't augur well for championship
Dean Brosnan having fine game three play and horgan much better players but Brosnan immense credit showing hunger and drive
Glen need horgan to carry them home
A poor game truth be told.

Itssoeasy

1-15 to 0-11 to the glen. 50 mins gone.

ShamoBuc

ShamoBuc wrote: »

3 weeks on the trot left them very tired looking last year, shoe is on the other foot this year, glen to win 21/10 and glen to win by 1-3 points at 9/2 will have some of my money , I think they will give a very good account of themselves.

Glen win 2-17 v 1-13, deserved the win.

Andre 3000

Great weekend for Cork hurling. The Glen deserved winners and Horgan was sh*te for most of the game. Who would have thought they'd win with him being poor. Graham Callanan was incredible, what a servant to Glen hurling.

Special mention to Newcestown. What a club and what a team. Magic story for a place you'd miss if you blinked as you drove past it. They have some fantastic players.

thinkstoomuch1

Like I predicted glen would win and vindicated my views past year sars only beat glen as we're tried last year.
Sars deserve credit for what won in cork but only ever good team in poor championship as no where absoultey no where near Newtownshandrum or ex team and wouldn't tie there shoe laces in truth in munster and it's absolutely wonderful wonderful cork club scene that became stale and lethargic is now new energy with glen great great really really i mean really great victory


Sars are imo deep transition now and lot team old lot mileage but lots young talent coming through and when do I'll support them again but the glen are tonic to cork and should be boost city hurling and rockies next year as again through county under twenty final v duhallow

For all this utter utter nonense Cian mccarthy is good for cork my post was posted before the game I said mccarthy only good from frees
Today proved my point, Moylan deserves call up cork destroyed him and mccarthy just one point from play
When the game was over with four to go got a goal but done nothing when game was in melting point
But again some cork fail to realise standard required inter county

Callan great servant unlucky with cork was with Moylan man of the match.
Doolin great goal and with cunningjham noonan and Moylan deserve call up cork
Sars Kearney midfield was good and sullivan good are only two deserves play cork

One point though congratulations glen and I think may be bit early for munster and I hope don't rest on there laurels but might be year early but done city hurling and Cork power good with the win and imo saved us from this nonense we would hear sars would win munster when truth be told they would be blown out the gate by any top teams
Great win for glen but doesn't imo hide horgan absoultey woeful display of no leadership from play, no hunger one great points from play but he's done nothing after that
Yes from placed balls was great but that's not good enough, player must contribute from play
Brosnan, Callan, cunningjham, Moylan, doolin led mcdonnell also, yet all star senior hurling eight years cork the best hurler on field didn't perform
Yet no doubt cork media won't as do questions it and he will be lauded with praise.

I will put up post later of he's scoring from play cork this year and shows from play he's poor
Had post but held off hoping he'd performance today
There is no excuses imo as it's third final from play he was poor.
People in cork need to forget this hype and judge him on performance and imo has to be simply has be dropped from cork league as only way he'll improve as it not good for inter county next year
He isn't a patch on greatest great really really great forward like mulchay, sullivan, joe deane, Ben o connor, Fraggie, etc performed county finals
A poor game but result great for cork hurling.
When the glen city rivals even wanted the glen to win it shows how much cork needed the glen today
Great to see Shane kennfick great warrior come on for the sub
Great for city, Douglas, glen and probably Blackrock in a county final.
Well done to the Glen, absoultey destroyed sars in the second half.
Sars can't complain as last year they didn't want to hear about the glen being tired.
The wheel always turns a full circle in sport.
Standard wasn't great but I think it's improvement from last year and with glen winning it will continue to next year.

Orizio

Andre 3000 wrote: »

Great weekend for Cork hurling. The Glen deserved winners and Horgan was sh*te for most of the game. Who would have thought they'd win with him being poor. Graham Callanan was incredible, what a servant to Glen hurling.

Special mention to Newcestown. What a club and what a team. Magic story for a place you'd miss if you blinked as you drove past it. They have some fantastic players.

The Glen have won plenty of games with Horgan being fairly ****e. In fact the times I've seen them play best Hoggie might as well not have been on the pitch. Sounds like it was the same today.

Andre 3000

Orizio wrote: »

The Glen have won plenty of games with Horgan being fairly ****e. In fact the times I've seen them play best Hoggie might as well not have been on the pitch. Sounds like it was the same today.

Yes indeed but if you were to say Glen were to win with Horgan absolutely woeful for most of the game you'd be a brave brave man.

thinkstoomuch1

Andre 3000 wrote: »

Great weekend for Cork hurling. The Glen deserved winners and Horgan was sh*te for most of the game. Who would have thought they'd win with him being poor. Graham Callanan was incredible, what a servant to Glen hurling.

Special mention to Newcestown. What a club and what a team. Magic story for a place you'd miss if you blinked as you drove past it. They have some fantastic players.

Great post and fair play having the courage of conviction to actually call horgan display as appalling
I said this for over year but nobody listened
Wait just wait for papers to ignore he's performance so cover over it
County final biggest stage cork third final no absoultey no excuse
Has to be dropped from cork imo
Kk wouldn't have him on there panel

thinkstoomuch1

Orizio wrote: »

The Glen have won plenty of games with Horgan being fairly ****e. In fact the times I've seen them play best Hoggie might as well not have been on the pitch. Sounds like it was the same today.

He is living off reputation but was absoultey awful even glen fans said it
Showed no leadership.

SeaFields

Great win for the glen. I haven't seen my father as happy in a long long time!

Hurleratheart

keep going wrote: »

Sherlock and diarmuid o sullivan does it show the board has got over the strike.

Word on street is sherlock won't be involved

Hurleratheart

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Glen win 2-17 v 1-13, deserved the win.

Delited for Glen
Great for city hurling as said already
Heart grit passion
And Cork hurling needs plenty of it

Figsy32

Hurleratheart wrote: »

Word on street is sherlock won't be involved

Definitely won't be.

thinkstoomuch1

Hurleratheart wrote: »

Delited for Glen
Great for city hurling as said already
Heart grit passion
And Cork hurling needs plenty of it

Would agree with you
Great for city hurling
I would add though wasn't just heart and grit but tactics were involved and Kellher good manager and three county final winning one certainly much much much better than tomas mulchay yet mulchay was candidates cork job

An example of good game flow management was mccarthy was being out played at centre forward where again lack mobility was shown and pat Ryan correctly so put him full forward
The astute Kellher though counter acted this by not doing what cork would do put mcdonnell in full back where he's no good under high ball they put mcdonnell centre back where freedom suited him and Moylan following mccarthy full back
Moylan done well and late goal was when the game was over
That is a prime example of having tactics and nous to understand mcdonnell great player isn't good enough for mccarthy but Moylan was
That alone show why it not just heart and passion
Yes heart and passion had a role but no one colour made the rainbow but all seven did
Today heart passion but tactics played there part

The rubgy superb win by ireland was heart and passion but sublime tactics also
The hurling was similar imo

thinkstoomuch1

Figsy32 wrote: »

Definitely won't be.

Wallace hopefully would be or Kellher

thinkstoomuch1

Imo horgan needs to do way more scoring from play.
One fourteen from play in six championship games imo is not great from he's standards.
Seamus Harnedy would not be as naturally talented but as of now I'd have him before horgan every day of the week as Harnedy even on off days works hard and always still gets around two or three from play in poor days.
Only once this year in the club has horgan stepped up from play with a superb performance six from play against bride rovers I think.
Pa Callaghan a young under twenty one player with no senior experience in two games has from play in just two games got two ten, that's my point.
Callaghan is even on a ballyhea team where's he's the go forward player and he delivers.
The glen have mcdonnell at the back a cork senior who with a team that wins more posession yet horgan still isn't imo doing enough.
Tj Reid and Callan put huge scores up in there club games regularly. Two weeks agoReid got around 2-8 or so for the club.
Reid has won schools, leinster colleges, Fitzgibbon cup, under twenty one all ireland numerous club all ireland and seven senior all ireland with three all stars soon to be a fourth, numerous awards as a player yet weeks after winning an senior all ireland with kk you could see understand if he was off the pace or walking around with an inflated ego or lacking hunger as he's nothing to prove as he's every right to be but no he goes back to club and performs to a high standard.
Horgan isn't coming close to the other county marquee players around the county imo and he's won a less than others, and performance wise at club level in bar the odd game he hasn't done down the years or even this year regualrly scored a lot consistently from play.
He's not doing it consistently for cork either but imo until he performs for club consistently he won't do it for cork.
Shefflin was right this year he said horgan can make the ball talk.
No one doubts he's talent but imo he needs to not make the ball talk when the sun shines and he's on fire imo the great really great great players are the ones that usually start singing in the rain, I mean when the dark days of the pressure on in a game he needs to perform for both club and county consistently.
Lar Corbett and Callan were like horgan in they had huge skill but often didn't perform.
Good coaching and hard work made them consistently excellent. I hope horgan becomes like them as imo at the moment I see him as a great player on he's day but if I was picking a cork team of great great really really great forwards I wouldn't have him in the top ten.

Horgan needs to start doing this for club first in order to do it for cork.
The top individual scorer from play in one game this year in the county championship is Callaghan with 2- -9
.Horgan has in one game got 13 from play. However on further assement horgan eleven of those scores were free in that match while Callaghan v imkoilly got two five from play.

When midelton won the county two years ago Conor lehane absoultey blitzes the semi final and final got two ten and he's a young player.
In that year quarter final he got 1-13 but 1-4 was from play.
In the semi final he got 1-8 but three from play.
In the final he got 2-8 from play.
Yes 2-8 out of a total of 2-10 in a county final.
Horgan has been poor in he's three county finals. This isn't being harsh just being honest and no one looking at the stats and comparing to other players can say he has greatly under performed.
Simply not good enough if he wants to start next year for cork.
Cork hurling has to get as tony considine a ruthless attuide back.
Some players i feel in cork think there undroppable.




I think horgan after last year being held scoreless from play in the county final this year is due and I really hope he will have a big games was my pre match view. But again he didn't deliver.
Imo if he doesn't perform in the finals irrespective of winning or loosing he must give a performance, if he doesn't I wouldn't be starting him next year in the first few league games for cork.
The only way he'll improve is if coaches demand more of he's talents and if not performing like in kk you don't start
Imo far too many games he's been average only but no one questioned he's performance yet others with less talented but give absoultey everything to cork are critsed on performance regularly.

He played in the 2010 final they lost to Sarsfields and again ten points looked good but he missed crucial frees at crucial times and was held well by Barry from play who with respect isn't an inter county full back.
That's three finals imo he has not performed to what's expected and this final is huge for him.
From placed balls he'll score but the minimum requirements imo from him in the final should be at least four points from play in the final and also he needs to get the crucial frees when the game is close and the glen need a score he's needs to score as at times he's fine if he's team are leading but when there not he has missed crucial frees before.
He has talent but he needs to lead when he's team need him.

This may seem harsh on him but honestly it's not it just a realistic expectation that cork best talented hurler delivers in biggest stage in cork hurling. We hear people saying he's great etc but if so it's reasonable to expect him to perform at club level to a high standard.

Joe brolly last week and he has point to be fair to justify he's claims he claims Gooch kerry is the best talented player around but doesn't perform when the need is greatest.
But he's not as great as he's made out to be as he said in not one all ireland but at least five he's failed to perform in close game and said brogan, Murphy, canavan who done in successively in all ireland finals are great players something he said Gooch isn't
Brolly to be fair is raising reasonable questions

Imo the same concept with horgan.
A great free taker and the best talented hurler in cork by a distance and in talent evaluation up there with Tony sullivan ring Ben o connor , jbm etc.

This year horgan became cork second ever highest championship scorer over taking many including ben o connor and second to christy ring who has 304 points. But even if he over takes ring in time and it seems likely rings thirty three goals -205 is way more impressive as ring didn't just get soft scores.
Horgan total scores for cork in championship is around 12-227 but the majority is from frees.
Ben o connor got a load from frees yes but crucially from play he stood up and was counted from play in big games.
In two successive all ireland final he got a goal in each final in 2005 and 2006 more importantly when he's team in defeat v kk cried out for help he got a goal to give them a chance.
In most of he's club intermediate county final and then senior when they even lost he always more or less performed in when from play he always got a crucial score or else from a free he scored.

However imo horgan still doesn't come close to any of those I mentioned as all those on greatest games for both club and county in county final they performed and performed regularly
Horgan topped the overall scoring charts from cork over all ahead of other cork players i think but imo Harnedy is absolutely of greater value to the team as Harnedy will perform and work in every game.
Imo to compare ring and horgan as equal is incorrect as it's just numbers as horgan hasn't from play come close to ring.

Horgan needs to perform in the big final.Younger less talented players have had better county finals in the past than horgan.
He's nearly eight years or more a senior cork hurler played under age cork won all star, on he's day destroyed the best defenders around and ex captain of cork.
It's totally reasonable to expect him to perform in the county final in
I would love to see him do that as he talent deserves it, but that is three county final he now has only from frees made impact and indeed overall he's performance in the championship has been poor at club level.
Yes he'll probably make with mccarthy the cork club teams of the year as there the two highest scores in this year championship but imo only from dead balls, I would be reluctant to pick them as if so it really sends out a statement score from frees it's acceptable to win awards.
Anyone think I'm harsh just look at the stats they don't lie.
Excuses are made for him also like he's should be centre forward, he's double marked etc.
That's the nature of the game though, he's at full, he is around long enough to know how to get involved in the game as the great experience players don't need to be hand held, like irish leaders today they lead from the front.
People critse cahalane unfairly who with less talent always performed in big games for club and county and like wise pa Cronin who gives total effort yet horgan never in some cases gets question on performance.
The match report will cheery pick as usal with he's performance, but most fans will say today he was poor, two points is a dreadful return from play.
Downes today for na Piarsaigh got more from play and he's not regular inter county player for he's club Yet he gets a goal and five from play in what is a championship equal to cork standard if not better

The glen won't win in waterford unless he starts leading from the front.
Horgan will not become better until he realise more is expected and the only way you do this is by dropping him.

It makes sense

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Glen win 2-17 v 1-13, deserved the win.

Great to see the Glen win even though I am east cork breaks the mould and should bring on hurling in cork and show that hard work and desire can overcome, Glen learnt a lot from losing last year and showed that the team is bigger than one man well done

CORKDOUBLE

Well done to the Glen ....when the dust settles two questions as I was not at the games ....Any players stand out as regards intercounty ? and can the Glen give Cork hurling a lift and win at least a Munster ....I see today that Portumna and Ballyhale Shamrocks were both beaten.

thinkstoomuch1

CORKDOUBLE wrote: »

Well done to the Glen ....when the dust settles two questions as I was not at the games ....Any players stand out as regards intercounty ? and can the Glen give Cork hurling a lift and win at least a Munster ....I see today that Portumna and Ballyhale Shamrocks were both beaten.

Worry is the glen ist win in years may deflate the hunger a bit and may be a year too early however if tallow win it would be similar for them

Ballygunner would be dangerous and half back line has Walsh and mahony
They don't have any stand out inter county forward it seems but coughlan who imo i remain be convinced by he's inter county if they win he's at least game and tough and horgan would have to be up for it

That's the key if horgan perform the glen can be a force with cunningjham and dorris good forwards also
Brosnan had a fine game the ex county under twenty one and credit due stood up today

The glen also seem to be good at the back with mcdonnell and doolin and noonan and the outstanding ex cork player Callan
He's too old unfortunately for cork
The glen are well coached and if it's Ballygunner imo i don't rate Denis Walsh as anything great tactics wise as record with Catherines and Cork proved so they could win

The worry is will they settle for the county or drive on and it depends in horgan
Any club in munster or leinster needs inter county players to have big games

Cork wise imo noonan doolin, Moylan and Cunningham deserve a call up
Kearney at midfield never gives up and for cork always performed so like connor sullivan would imo be the only sars lads that should be on the panel
Luke meade three points from play and covered every blade of grass would be suited to a cork sweeper system and has real cork potential
Na Piarsaigh with a few inter county players look to be the favourite but the bridge at home will be tough
As for tipp thurles sars look good
They have inter county player that normally perform so it's vital in munster the glen two players from cork perform in these games

The glen looked fit and strong and credit to limerick dave moritay who is s and c with them
Cork have normally given so much to limerick hurling and football at club and inter county in hurling and football it is nice to see a limerick man involved in cork success

thinkstoomuch1

It makes sense wrote: »

Great to see the Glen win even though I am east cork breaks the mould and should bring on hurling in cork and show that hard work and desire can overcome, Glen learnt a lot from losing last year and showed that the team is bigger than one man well done

Who would you think from the glen should get games with cork
What do you make the new cork managment

thinkstoomuch1

Figsy32 wrote: »

Definitely won't be.

It's a pity as sherlock would be good.

shockframe

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

The glen looked fit and strong and credit to limerick dave moritay who is s and c with them
Cork have normally given so much to limerick hurling and football at club and inter county in hurling and football it is nice to see a limerick man involved in cork success

You of all people should know he's not the only Limerick man who has been successful in Cork club hurling recently.

Andre 3000

Anyone think Horgan needs to slim up? I was looking at him today and his legs are absolutely massive. The guy is obviously in great shape, but maybe he has too much muscle and bulk on him. He was never the quickest but due to his sheer size it's bound to hurt him. There were a few balls today that he was half a length away from that faster players like Dorris today woukd have got to. I don't think it'd be a big sacrifice to his game if he layed off the heavy weights and focused more on his speed, acceleration and agility. As said before the man is one of the most talented hurlers you'd ever see but I think it'd make a great difference to his game if he trimmed up a bit.

On a side note, I hope Luke Meade progresses more and more. Such a beautiful hurler to watch and the guy only sat his leaving in June. He's in Mary I doing teaching now which is a great college to have him in in terms of his hurling. He'll be up and down with the best young hurlers in the country on a daily basis. He's a brilliant hurler though. Very quick yet strong for his size and he has a natural cuteness about him that cannot be taught. Always one step ahead of his man and he's phenomenal at winning the ball back.

thinkstoomuch1

shockframe wrote: »

You of all people should know he's not the only Limerick man who has been successful in Cork club hurling recently.

Where did i say he was the only man from limerick involved in cork success
I said nice see limerick man involved
Was paying limerick a compliment, you of all people should realise it was a compliment
He's a fine s and c man I said.

shockframe

thinkstoomuch1 wrote: »

Where did i say he was the only man from limerick involved in cork success
I said nice see limerick man involved
Was paying limerick a compliment, you of all people should realise it was a compliment
He's a fine s and c man I said.

I know that but you made it sound like Limerick have got way more out of Cork than the other way round.

I've great time for o grady, allen and corbett but the likes of Moriarty,brudair, quilty,TJ even have won counties in Cork.

thinkstoomuch1

shockframe wrote: »

I know that but you made it sound like Limerick have got way more out of Cork than the other way round.

I've great time for o grady, allen and corbett but the likes of Moriarty,brudair, quilty,TJ even have won counties in Cork.

No i didn't but you perceived and assumed to assume wrongly
And you should know I praised quility many times and indeed clem smith doing great work with ballyhea and indeed Peter finn who doing good with charville and hopefully will win the county with them and imo will
And just to add there's a limerick connection when dripsey play charville also as dripsey full back kelliher played in limerick club scene and is a good hurlers

willietherock

Andre 3000 wrote: »

Anyone think Horgan needs to slim up? I was looking at him today and his legs are absolutely massive. The guy is obviously in great shape, but maybe he has too much muscle and bulk on him. He was never the quickest but due to his sheer size it's bound to hurt him. There were a few balls today that he was half a length away from that faster players like Dorris today woukd have got to. I don't think it'd be a big sacrifice to his game if he layed off the heavy weights and focused more on his speed, acceleration and agility. As said before the man is one of the most talented hurlers you'd ever see but I think it'd make a great difference to his game if he trimmed up a bit.

On a side note, I hope Luke Meade progresses more and more. Such a beautiful hurler to watch and the guy only sat his leaving in June. He's in Mary I doing teaching now which is a great college to have him in in terms of his hurling. He'll be up and down with the best young hurlers in the country on a daily basis. He's a brilliant hurler though. Very quick yet strong for his size and he has a natural cuteness about him that cannot be taught. Always one step ahead of his man and he's phenomenal at winning the ball back.

Hoggys getting way too much stick. He wasn't great yesterday but he did have 5~ wides from play, all narrowly wide. On another day he's man of the match if they go over. He was and never is anything but an inside forward but is playing in the position most effective for the team. It's a surprising outcome with him so quite that the Glen could still post a score to win easily. He could do with winning more possession but then again that was never his game and the Glen do play him in when they get the chance. A good result for Cork hurling. Seeing Sars farting around with a goalie playing as a sweeper and 40 yard backpasses is not the type of hurling Cork needs.