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Insane private school fees.

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12357…12

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    #122
    Missyelliot2
    Registered Users Posts: 1,472 ✭✭✭Missyelliot2


    Tarzana wrote: »
    You do need to delve deeper into the socioeconomic reasons for that too though. It's not just about money. Are children from some areas and backgrounds likely to get more parental support than others? This is something that needs to be looked at and examined. And parents need to be encouraged to get more involved.

    Completely agree with you. It's definitely not just about money. Having lived in the UK and my children were in the UK system - I feel so grateful to have moved home. Whatever faults are within our education system, it's so much more compassionate than the system in the UK. (ie just turned 4? Off you go to school!)

    I do understand that the Eton/Harrow brigade will ALWAYS go to certain secondary and boarding schools/hang out with people of similar means and really not upset the equilibrium - and it's what's expected of them. The fact that the children buy into this expectation is possibly a case of "but this is the way it's always been...."

    However, there is a middle of the road group, to which I think Tarzana refers - and they are the parents (am one), who want an education for my kids that's as good as I can afford. I want them to do their best-that's all-and I do take an active part in their education, so they have parental support.
    I teach in a DEIS school and there are the brightest and best sparks in my class - I would love for more help for their parents in pointing the children in the right direction. There is lots of help for primary schools, but when children get to secondary - they can become lost in the system.


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    #123
    Swan Curry
    Registered Users Posts: 1,805 ✭✭✭Swan Curry


    If state funding was pulled from private schools and they were forced to go fully independent,what would stop the few that would survive from headhunting the best teachers around Ireland?I'm not the biggest fan of private schools myself,but I think keeping most of them dependent on the state is certainly better than allowing a small number of them to exist and end up like Eton and Harrow.


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    #124
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,378 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    How much state funding do they get? More or less per student in the state system?


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    #125
    Rums
    Registered Users Posts: 9 ✭Rums


    cloud493 wrote: »
    I was just watching one of the re-runs of harrow a very british school on sky 1, and they happened to mention the annual school fees are £30,000 a year :eek:
    Thats insanity,
    I don't think I'd send my kid there, even if I could afford it. I mean the school looks good for sure, but they don't seem particularly friendly, they exist, as they themselves state, in a bubble of privilege and are isolated from the regular community, cant be good for them once they're done with the school, and... I just wouldn't. Its insane. Even if the facilities are that good.

    How about you guys?

    UK fees for private schools are much higher then Ireland in or around twice as much.
    The top prices for private schools in Ireland are around 20,000 to 30,000 euro and that is boarding so you are paying for things on top of education.
    Private schools do tend to exist inside a kind of a bubble of privilege isolated from regular community.... however rather then detrimental once they leave it is quite the opposite, the old adage ''it's not what you know but who you know'' rings true.

    Most of the friends your children make will be from affluent families.
    Each child receiving a very high level of education meaning their prospects in future will be greater.
    As they were in a ''bubble'' that was ''isolated'' they will likely look out for each other and other alumni/alumnae of their schools so much so that in many cases dropping the name of certain private schools on a CV can almost guarantee employment.

    In the case of private boarding schools the effect is even greater as your child essentially will have lived with these people for 6 years and there are 1 maybe 2 boarding schools in the country where dropping their name on a CV will guarantee employment and in fact more weight will be attached to that name then even prestigious third level institutions such as Trinity.

    Is this a good thing? well it is for your child but there is something morally dubious about it.
    Is it illegal? no.
    Can you get your child in the private boarding schools that come to mind? No even if you have the money, unless your child is not born yet as the most prestigious ones have waiting lists of over a decade unless you have/had relatives that went there.


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    #126
    ProfessorPlum
    Registered Users Posts: 1,803 ✭✭✭ProfessorPlum


    Rums wrote: »
    in fact more weight will be attached to that name then even prestigious third level institutions such as Trinity.
    .

    I presume you mean Trinity College Oxford?


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    #127
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    Mr.S wrote: »
    Most of this is all bull****.

    Name me the schools that you can "drop" on a CV to get a job, are you messing? Come on..

    In fairness I think they are talking about Eton and Harrow.


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    #128
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    I don't have anything against people who go there or people who send their kids there. If anything parents are to be admired for spending money on their kids education. What I cannot accept is a system that favours the income of the family you were born into over intelligence. I cannot accept anything that gives an inaccurate representation of the academically gifted.

    Our system favours those who get the most point regardless of how much your family earn.


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    #129
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,911 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Deleted User wrote: »
    How much state funding do they get? More or less per student in the state system?

    There was a report last year on this that said every child in private education costs the state half of what a child in public education does.


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    #130
    Icemancometh
    Registered Users Posts: 860 ✭✭✭Icemancometh


    VinLieger wrote: »
    There was a report last year on this that said every child in private education costs the state half of what a child in public education does.

    I'm sure it is a money saver for the state, but I still have a problem with state subsidised privilege.


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    #131
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,588 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    Our system favours those who get the most point regardless of how much your family earn.
    True, but it's not exactly a level playing field when it comes to getting those points.

    That's the point he's making.


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    #132
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    Our system favours those who get the most point regardless of how much your family earn.

    So the school you go to has no effect on the points or teaching you receive? It's statements like this that make the private school argument hard to accept.


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    #133
    Frank Lee Midere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    SaveOurLyric wrote: »
    Nevertheless, they do.

    Source?


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    #134
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    The leaving cert is a test to determine who gets a place in college. You cannot have a reliable test of ability if you offer some students an unearned advantage over others.


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    #135
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    osarusan wrote: »
    True, but it's not exactly a level playing field when it comes to getting those points.

    That's the point he's making.
    steddyeddy wrote: »
    So the school you go to has no effect on the points or teaching you receive? It's statements like this that make the private school argument hard to accept.

    There is nothing stopping a person from getting 600 points no matter what school they go to. You dont just pay a few thousand euro and they automatically add 200 points. In the end they all do the same exam.

    I went to a public school with people who got 600 points and people who were lucking to do their JC. The exam doesnt care how much you paid. You would generally have more people who want to do well in the LC and go to university in a private school helping to put up the average.

    You still need to do the work in a private school, any benefits gained from it arent just from handing over money. It may be better facilities, lower student to teacher ratios but the factors aren't just hand money over and get better results unless you are handing the money to the people correcting your exams.


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    #136
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    There is nothing stopping a person from getting 600 points no matter what school they go to. You dont just pay a few thousand euro and they automatically add 200 points. In the end they all do the same exam.

    I went to a public school with people who got 600 points and people who were lucking to do their JC. The exam doesnt care how much you paid. You would generally have more people who want to do well in the LC and go to university in a private school helping to put up the average.

    You still need to do the work in a private school, any benefits gained from it arent just from handing over money. It may be better facilities, lower student to teacher ratios but the factors aren't just hand money over and get better results unless you are handing the money to the people correcting your exams.

    No money does not equal results but money is being used to make to give a better chance to some students.

    Guess what happened when Finland got rid of fee paying schools?


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    #137
    animaal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 815 ✭✭✭animaal


    Icemancometh wrote: »
    I'm sure it is a money saver for the state, but I still have a problem with state subsidised privilege.

    There are plenty of ways in which people accept the services provided by the state, but add to them using private funds. I don't see a problem with this.

    Are you ok with people accepting the state contributary pension, but also having a private pension? Or people being able to call the Gardai after a burglary, even though they have a monitored alarm system? Or people who own a car being able to buy tickets on the (state-subsidised) public transport system?

    The state is supposed to be more than a big mechanism for the transfer of wealth to those who have less. It's also supposed to provide services to its citizens.


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    #138
    SaveOurLyric
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭SaveOurLyric


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    Our system favours those who get the most point regardless of how much your family earn.

    How much your family earns strongly influences how many points you aill get. Therefore, the system favours those with richer families.


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    #139
    SaveOurLyric
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭SaveOurLyric


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    Our system favours those who get the most point regardless of how much your family earn.

    How much your family earns strongly influences how many points you will get. Therefore, the system favours those with richer families.


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    #140
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,911 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    SaveOurLyric wrote: »
    How much your family earns strongly influences how many points you aill get. Therefore, the system favours those with richer families.

    That's a fallacy, yes children who's families have more money may get more points but it's not just because they have more money


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    #141
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    No money does not equal results but money is being used to make to give a better chance to some students.

    Guess what happened when Finland got rid of fee paying schools?

    Should I not encourage any children I have to do well and go to university? Should I not help them with their homework? Some children dont have that and it gives my children a better chance than them just because they happen to come out of my girlfriend/wife.

    I have no idea what happened in Finland, when we have an education system the same as Finland's Im sure the same results would be found here.


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    #142
    Shakespeare's Sister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    Your backgound (not income, that's way too simplistic) will determine in fairness how likely you are to progress to third level.


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    #143
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,588 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »
    Your backgound (not income, that's way too simplistic) will determine in fairness how likely you are to progress to third level.
    It would be simplistic if people were arguing that money to pay for a good school was the only factor, but nobody is.


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    #144
    Shakespeare's Sister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    osarusan wrote: »
    It would be simplistic if people were arguing that money to pay for a good school was the only factor, but nobody is.
    Nobody apart from the person who said just a few posts ago: "How much your family earns strongly influences how many points you will get. Therefore, the system favours those with richer families."


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    #145
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    The school you go to influences how well you do in the leaving cert.


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    #146
    SaveOurLyric
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭SaveOurLyric


    Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »
    Nobody apart from the person who said just a few posts ago: "How much your family earns strongly influences how many points you will get. Therefore, the system favours those with richer families."

    No I didnt. I said points correlate to family income. Not whether the family has the money to pay for a private school.


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    #147
    cloud493
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,835 ✭✭✭✭cloud493


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    The school you go to influences how well you do in the leaving cert.

    Not necessarily.


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    #148
    Shakespeare's Sister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,412 ✭✭✭Shakespeare's Sister


    The school I went to definitely influenced my leaving cert. There was very much an ethos of "Don't be ambitious, that's for swots".
    It was a deceptive school though, because it had excellent facilities - I liked the look of it and really wanted to go there.
    I went from being one of the top of the class in primary school to being the same at the start of secondary school, but then sliding and sliding and sliding. I feel awful looking back now - must have been so disappointing for my parents.
    Although I still got 430 points which was enough for arts, which I probably would have done anyway. However if I had studied harder I might have got the points for the higher points arts courses like psychology or language based arts degrees.


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    #149
    steddyeddy
    Registered Users Posts: 27,564 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    cloud493 wrote: »
    Not necessarily.

    If that's the case why do people pay to send kids to private schools?


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    #150
    SaveOurLyric
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭SaveOurLyric


    cloud493 wrote: »
    Not necessarily.

    Yes necessarily. Amongst other factors though.


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    #151
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,911 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    SaveOurLyric wrote: »
    No I didnt. I said points correlate to family income. Not whether the family has the money to pay for a private school.

    That is some seriously fallacious reasoning. Again simply becuase rich kids do better does not mean they do better cus they are rich.


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