Insane private school fees.

steddyeddy

In fairness money doesn't directly translate to success. The school has a large influence on success imho. There is no link between having rich parents and being intelligence.

SaveOurLyric

VinLieger wrote: »

That is some seriously fallacious reasoning. Again simply becuase rich kids do better does not mean they do better cus they are rich.

Why not ?

cloud493

steddyeddy wrote: »

If that's the case why do people pay to send kids to private schools?

For contacts, as other people have stated, among other facilities. Or maybe their child just cant be facilitated at normal schools.

osarusan

Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »

Nobody apart from the person who said just a few posts ago: "How much your family earns strongly influences how many points you will get. Therefore, the system favours those with richer families."

again, that's not saying it's the only factor. Nobody is saying that.

But to say that going to to good school can't have any influence your leaving cert points is silly. Of course a good school can have that influence.

And people want to send their kids to good schools. If they're private schools, some will be happy to pay for that, whereas others won't have the money.

ProfessorPlum

steddyeddy wrote: »

The school you go to influences how well you do in the leaving cert.

Yes that is a factor. Providing they actually go to school. A child who is supported at home to actually go to school, work hard and achieve the best they can be is by far the greatest influence on how well kids do.

VinLieger

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Why not ?

Because there are so many other factors mainly as someone else previously said your background and how you are raised

gubbie

cloud493 wrote: »

I was just watching one of the re-runs of harrow a very british school on sky 1, and they happened to mention the annual school fees are £30,000 a year :eek:
Thats insanity,
I don't think I'd send my kid there, even if I could afford it. I mean the school looks good for sure, but they don't seem particularly friendly, they exist, as they themselves state, in a bubble of privilege and are isolated from the regular community, cant be good for them once they're done with the school, and... I just wouldn't. Its insane. Even if the facilities are that good.

How about you guys?

I've not been to Harrow, but I went to another, Radley with fees of £33,000 a year, as a teacher supervising a trip. Now I went to a private school, my brothers went to private boarding schools in Ireland, but I saw things in that school that just blew my mind away.

What I was disgusted about was their class snobbery and built in sexism. I felt a bit sorry for our lads, whose parents don't make close to £33,000. They seemed so out of place.

Their school uniform was trousers, shirt, cape... cape! As my house mate once said "I used to think that having a blazer as part of your school uniform was posh..."

To be fair, the food was incredible though!

evolving_doors

The op's point is equivalent to giving out about the price of Kobi beef in India, and inferring it has some bearing on the beef industry here...

There are NO private schools in ireland which are exclusively funded by private means. Except for 'grind schools' like The Institue etc... which don't offer a complete secondary education (1st yr to 6th).

Shakespeare's Sister

gubbie wrote: »

I've not been to Harrow, but I went to another, Radley with fees of £33,000 a year, as a teacher supervising a trip. Now I went to a private school, my brothers went to private boarding schools in Ireland, but I saw things in that school that just blew my mind away.

What I was disgusted about was their class snobbery and built in sexism. I felt a bit sorry for our lads, whose parents don't make close to £33,000. They seemed so out of place.

Their school uniform was trousers, shirt, cape... cape! As my house mate once said "I used to think that having a blazer as part of your school uniform was posh..."

To be fair, the food was incredible though!

Lol at the cape bit.

steddyeddy

AndonHandon wrote: »

+1

The parents also pay tax but have made a decision to supplement their tax with fees.

OK great but what did the student do to earn the place in a fee paying school? Why should the tax a person's parents pay potentially give that child an extra advantage over someone else in what's supposed to be a standardised test?

ZeroThreat

I went to a large human cattle ranch, also known as a CBS boys school on the Long Mile Road...

gubbie

Shakespeare's Sister wrote: »

Lol at the cape bit.

Actual capes!

If I can afford it, I'll send my kids private, but I won't send them to boarding school. Kids need to grow up with their brothers and sisters and family.

The reason parents send their kids to private schools is often the same reason they send them to Gaelscoils - they see them as having a better "quality" of student. Parents aren't going to pay for a school unless they value education, just like people aren't going to make their kids go off and learn things through Irish unless they value education. So the schools are full of kids whose parents value education, instead of in a public school (such as the one I thought in) where about 20% of the parents didn't. So you get behavioural problems.

shruikan2553

steddyeddy wrote: »

OK great but what did the student do to earn the place in a fee paying school? Why should the tax a person's parents pay potentially give that child an extra advantage over someone else in what's supposed to be a standardised test?

The same thing any other child does to earn a place in any school.

twinytwo

shruikan2553 wrote: »

There is nothing stopping a person from getting 600 points no matter what school they go to. You dont just pay a few thousand euro and they automatically add 200 points. In the end they all do the same exam.

I went to a public school with people who got 600 points and people who were lucking to do their JC. The exam doesnt care how much you paid. You would generally have more people who want to do well in the LC and go to university in a private school helping to put up the average.

You still need to do the work in a private school, any benefits gained from it arent just from handing over money. It may be better facilities, lower student to teacher ratios but the factors aren't just hand money over and get better results unless you are handing the money to the people correcting your exams.

Actually it can make a massive difference... i was lucky enough to do my leaving in a private school after having spent 4 years in a state school.

The problem is with state schools is that you cant get rid of useless teachers or throw out problem students who have no interest in being there but have no problem wrecking it for everyone else.

Yes the private school cost a nice chunk of money, but I got access to some of the best teachers in the country. The entire mind set is different, from everyone wants to be there to the teachers going the extra mile. It is something I will forever be gratefull for.

Icemancometh

Icemancometh wrote: »

I'm sure it is a money saver for the state, but I still have a problem with state subsidised privilege.

Parents pay more tax that regular folk and shouldn't get any of it back like regular folk?

Gyalist

gubbie wrote: »

Actual capes!

The most distinctive that I've seen is that worn by the students at Christ's Hospital in Sussex.

steddyeddy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Parents pay more tax that regular folk and shouldn't get any of it back like regular folk?

Not if it goes towards a conferring an unearned educational advantage to one child over another. How about we make entry to the best schools dependent on a scholarship (I.E) actual merit. People have to learn that education should be rewarded by yourself alone and not what your parents make.

steddyeddy

How many private schools offer scholarships? I know Belvedere offer scholarships and they should be proud to do so. They give people an equal chance to do well.

steddyeddy

Mr.S wrote: »

Plenty of students in very expensive private schools who have no interest in being there and are disruptive...

The mind set does not change just because your parents are paying for you to be there...

True about the teachers, but that's not to say that teachers in public schools are bad? They all go through the same training after all...

I

Just to clarify you think there I no educational (or minimal) educational advantage in fee paying schools?

VinLieger

steddyeddy wrote: »

Not if it goes towards a conferring an unearned educational advantage to one child over another. How about we make entry to the best schools dependent on a scholarship (I.E) actual merit. People have to learn that education should be rewarded by yourself alone and not what your parents make.

I disagree because in my opinion whatever failings the leaving cert does have it is uniquely suited to being fair across the board in that if you simply do the work you will do well.

In this case it is much more up to the environment you are raised in and the attitude to education of your parents than the school you go to.

cloud493

steddyeddy wrote: »

How many private schools offer scholarships? I know Belvedere offer scholarships and they should be proud to do so. They give people an equal chance to do well.

I think most of them do. Harrow did an entire TV program on its scholarships for the less well off.

ProfessorPlum

steddyeddy wrote: »

How many private schools offer scholarships? I know Belvedere offer scholarships and they should be proud to do so. They give people an equal chance to do well.

Most of them do. You should object strongly on the grounds that it is 'buying an educational advantage'.

steddyeddy

VinLieger wrote: »

I disagree because in my opinion whatever failings the leaving cert does have it is uniquely suited to being fair across the board in that if you simply do the work you will do well.

In this case it is much more up to the environment you are raised in and the attitude to education of your parents than the school you go to.

You cannot expect me to believe that student teacher ratios, teachers and subjects offered do not make a difference.

steddyeddy

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

Most of them do. You should object strongly on the grounds that it is 'buying an educational advantage'.

I won a scholarship to do a masters and one which paid some uni fees in my third year. It was earned because i worked hard and was good at what I do. It's a far cry from rewarding me because of what my parents could afford.

steddyeddy

It's amazing that the people who are in support of private schools think they make relatively little difference to education.

ProfessorPlum

steddyeddy wrote: »

You cannot expect me to believe that student teacher ratios, teachers and subjects offered do not make a difference.

DEIS schools tend to have more favourable student teacher ratios than private schools, and private schools tend to offer a smaller range often of more tradition subjects (anyone for Latin and Greek?)

Hint: it's about more than money.

steddyeddy

Tarzana wrote: »

You do need to delve deeper into the socioeconomic reasons for that too though. It's not just about money. Are children from some areas and backgrounds likely to get more parental support than others? This is something that needs to be looked at and examined. And parents need to be encouraged to get more involved.

I agree parental support is of utmost importance but school plays a large part in it too. Children need to be inspired to love learning. My parents didn't go to college but I met a great physicist who inspired me to study science. Educators make a huge difference to education.

steddyeddy

ProfessorPlum wrote: »

DEIS schools tend to have more favourable student teacher ratios than private schools, and private schools tend to offer a smaller range often of more tradition subjects (anyone for Latin and Greek?)

Hint: it's about more than money.

Actually some schools don't offer the option to do higher level in some subjects or the same range of modern languages.

You don't seem to understand my argument. Hint it's not money=leaving cert points. It's that the school makes a huge difference to how a person is educated.

As for DEIS schools a large number of students from DEIS school are entering third level education and doing brilliantly. So they are benefiting from increased teacher student ratio. They can't however get rid of sub par teachers with the same efficiency that private schools do.

steddyeddy

Mr.S wrote: »

Fully depends on the student.

So a student that wants to learn will have an educational advantage?

ProfessorPlum

steddyeddy wrote: »

I won a scholarship to do a masters and one which paid some uni fees in my third year. It was earned because i worked hard and was good at what I do. It's a far cry from rewarding me because of what my parents could afford.

Do you think your success at secondary and third level had anything to do with your upbringing and support from home where you where taught the importance of education? Or should I assume that your parents 'bought' you your leaving cert and college entry.