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Chain Saw Chat

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭Reindeer


    It runs surprisingly well with just a muffler mod, and it gets better every day. They are very choked up from the factory with one tiny outlet.

    I was considering porting it, but she ran so well today, and her throttle response has gotten better. It is a touch thirstier, but it is commensurate with the power. I don't find it needing much more refueling. I do notice it has much more go.

    It's noisy. But not all that bad. I don't really do tree surgery, so it doesn't bother me or any residents. I am more on the forestry and logging side.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,967 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    I see the term porting a lot. Could someone explain it please.... Ladybird version, words of three syllables or less please. :D

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,655 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tokyo


    greysides wrote: »
    I see the term porting a lot. Could someone explain it please.... Ladybird version, words of three syllables or less please. :D


    widening and smoothing the intake and exhaust port to increase airflow into the engine, and allow exhaust gasses to escape quicker. Reducing restrictions on airflow basically. Makes for a more powerful engine. I used to do it on diesel engines a while back.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭Reindeer


    mike_ie wrote: »
    widening and smoothing the intake and exhaust port to increase airflow into the engine, and allow exhaust gasses to escape quicker. Reducing restrictions on airflow basically. Makes for a more powerful engine. I used to do it on diesel engines a while back.

    It's more than that if you know what you're doing. The only smoothing that needs be done is with the exhaust port. Unlike with a 4 stroke, it doesn't matter as much if there is shear on the intake side or turbulence as the compression on a 2 stroke is far more dynamic than a 4 stroke, and it's perfectly fine for the oil to precipitate out of the mixture into the chassis.

    What you are looking to do on a chainsaw is create a demand for more intake, increase the ability to move the charge from the chassis through the transfers, increase the transfer efficiency, improve the squish velocity if possible(generally by increasing compression or reshaping the combustion chamber), and create better exhaust timing and flow. The timing is just as important as the flow - in fact, they are one in the same. If need be, you adjust the ignition timing. If you want to push it further, there are options on some saws to upgrade to a larger carburetor or a larger venturi model.

    To achieve more efficiency, you reshape ports and add or decrease timing. Thus - porting. It's really mostly borrowed from the 2 stroke motorbike racing crowd.


  • Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,655 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tokyo


    Reindeer wrote: »
    It's more than that if you know what you're doing.

    For sure. I was going for the simplified version :D


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭Reindeer


    Here's an example. A bud of mine needed his Husky 365 top end repaired. I had an open port 365 cylinder laying around I told him he could have. Stock, this cylinder will not give the same response or power as a closed port "365 Special" one would. So, I went ahead and ported it for him.

    To give you an idea of what is done visually,
    Here is an image of a factory stock cylinder:

    http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu193/Roanoker494/365/100_3443.jpg~original

    Here it is on the first pass after I rough matched the lower transfers to the chassis for increased flow, and added more intake and exhaust timing and width.

    http://m6.i.pbase.com/g9/22/22/2/155290626.udL2O8MX.jpg

    http://m0.i.pbase.com/g9/22/22/2/155290630.lEnR3jEz.jpg

    The result:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCth2B4z03w


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,967 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    Thanks both of you.

    Not surprised Mike answered, they've been doing similar things to Defender engines for as long as they've been made. :)

    Sounds like the basic engineering and principles are the same, close to the idea of a turbo.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭Reindeer


    greysides wrote: »
    Thanks both of you.

    Not surprised Mike answered, they've been doing similar things to Defender engines for as long as they've been made. :)

    Sounds like the basic engineering and principles are the same, close to the idea of a turbo.

    This vid gives you an idea how the motors work, and a hint at how important the timing can be:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuCUmQ9FxMU

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKQprWAHFTk


  • Registered Users Posts: 57 ✭✭Aya xxv


    Hi might be a silly q but is it cheaper to buy a reel of chain and make your own I'm running 2 stihls a181c for limbing, a 390 for felling most stuff and recently got a husqvarna 395 Xp a36" for monster stuff. But mainly have a 20" bar very willing but eats chains constant sharpening normally bring 5 or 6 chains with me for the day and sort them out in the evening. Tedious


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,183 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    Had 4 big Dales to knock today. All going well till I let the chain touch one of the wedges..............


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭Reindeer


    I need a new pair of trousers. Anyone got any suggestions for a retailer in the Clonmel/Waterford area or on line for some PPE?

    Obliged


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,668 ✭✭✭kay 9


    Reindeer wrote: »
    I need a new pair of trousers. Anyone got any suggestions for a retailer in the Clonmel/Waterford area or on line for some PPE?

    http://www.frjonesandson.co.uk/products-page/ppe-safety-and-workwear/ or https://honeybros.com/Category/PPE_and_Clothing


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭Reindeer


    Ported:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vv9wuWKiXM

    Didn't have to mod it much to get that result, too. I think the key to power is removing the baffle and using the right amount of timing. Unfortunately, that is also the key to dB's.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 8,967 Mod ✭✭✭✭greysides


    OK. NOw, I get the whole chain saw thing. I mean, once a man has a motorbike, a fast car, a Defender and a power boat........... what do you get the petrol-head who has everything for Christmas?


    (says the man who drives around with a 3.0 litre engine where a 1.8 previously worked ok............)

    Joking aside, it's nice to have enough horses to do a job in comfort and not feel like you're flogging the engine.

    The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress. Joseph Joubert

    The ultimate purpose of debate is not to produce consensus. It's to promote critical thinking.

    Adam Grant



  • Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,655 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tokyo


    Reindeer wrote: »
    Ported:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vv9wuWKiXM

    Didn't have to mod it much to get that result, too. I think the key to power is removing the baffle and using the right amount of timing. Unfortunately, that is also the key to dB's.


    Nice job - seems to be getting through that timber like butter. As for the dB's.. that's what ear defenders are for :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭Reindeer


    greysides wrote: »
    OK. NOw, I get the whole chain saw thing. I mean, once a man has a motorbike, a fast car, a Defender and a power boat........... what do you get the petrol-head who has everything for Christmas?


    (says the man who drives around with a 3.0 litre engine where a 1.8 previously worked ok............)

    Joking aside, it's nice to have enough horses to do a job in comfort and not feel like you're flogging the engine.

    Well, let's be honest, ya probably don't want a toy like this in the hands of a first time user... ;)

    I'm not wearing PPE trousers, btw, because my last pair were recently destroyed by that monster 044. Awaiting a new pair here shortly.
    Until then, I'm avoiding the 044.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,183 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    Reindeer wrote: »
    Well, let's be honest, ya probably don't want a toy like this in the hands of a first time user... ;)

    I'm not wearing PPE trousers, btw, because my last pair were recently destroyed by that monster 044. Awaiting a new pair here shortly.
    Until then, I'm avoiding the 044.

    Hi Reindeer, is your 044 a US import? You don't see many with a half wrap and outside dogs?

    Whoever had mine before me, put the handle bolts in the wrong way round, and they have nibbled two little holes into the bottom of the oil tank.:mad:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭Reindeer


    Yeah, she's from a bud of mine in Tennessee. He ports saws for living, and is obviously quite good at it. It's from his personal stable. He put it up for sale, along with nearly a dozen others, when he wanted to get some christmas money. It's a bit more saw than I care for, as far as porting goes, but I couldn't turn it down at the price he asked.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,668 ✭✭✭kay 9


    Reindeer wrote: »
    Yeah, she's from a bud of mine in Tennessee. He ports saws for living, and is obviously quite good at it. It's from his personal stable. He put it up for sale, along with nearly a dozen others, when he wanted to get some christmas money. It's a bit more saw than I care for, as far as porting goes, but I couldn't turn it down at the price he asked.
    Mastermind by any chance? :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭Reindeer


    kay 9 wrote: »
    Mastermind by any chance? :D

    But, of course.

    :")


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,668 ✭✭✭kay 9


    Great country bud for portin' saws lol. Between mastermind and snellerized, I'd have one from either. It's only a matter of time until they find more rpms from the new 661 too if they ain't already :d


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,079 ✭✭✭Reindeer


    OK, I edited the times together:

    http://youtu.be/KJJPskXoE8Q

    I honestly do not see a need to port one unless you happen to want to run a long bar on it, or are cutting railroad ties all day long.
    Granted, to get those times you have to remove the baffle, which is not an easy thing to do, and it creates a world of noise. But if you work forestry instead of estates, it may be worth it. If anyone wants the muffler mod here in Ireland, just let me know. It takes 3 hours starts to finish because it is fiddly work, and the metal is hard on burrs, but I think I can do it for a reasonable fee. Just PM me if ya like. The exhaust is a very easy thing to remove and reinstall yourself. The exhaust gasket on the MS261 even has tabs to keep it in place when you are reassembling the muffler.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭ford2600


    Seriously
    as someone who measures noise professionally, if your able to notice a big increase in noise the energy hitting your ear is enormously higher.
    With combined hearing/faceguards/helmets the protection is often not what it should be.

    When using saw for day, I use properly fitted plugs(get second hand around back of your head a straighten ear canal while inserting plug with other hand) and muffs(I don't put too much faith in muffs as they move a bit and the faceguard can interfere with fit). If using a ported saw I would recommend this for certain.

    @ Reindeer nice work with saw btw like a hot knife through butter


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,797 ✭✭✭Kevin McCloud


    Looking for some parts, converting the tool less tensioner on a stihl 361 to the normal side tensioner and nuts.
    If some one has a saw scrapped with a side cover, tensioner kit and stud. Im most sure other models share the same pieces.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,668 ✭✭✭kay 9


    Looking for some parts, converting the tool less tensioner on a stihl 361 to the normal side tensioner and nuts.
    If some one has a saw scrapped with a side cover, tensioner kit and stud. Im most sure other models share the same pieces.

    I didn't think the 361 came with tool less tensioner as it's a pro saw. You sure it's a 361 mate? Not being a dick


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,797 ✭✭✭Kevin McCloud


    kay 9 wrote: »
    I didn't think the 361 came with tool less tensioner as it's a pro saw. You sure it's a 361 mate? Not being a dick

    Appreciate your concern, i did think it was out of the norm but the stihl 260 had it which is a pro saw too. I havent paid for the item yet, won it on ebay so nothing lost yet :)


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,797 ✭✭✭Kevin McCloud


    Been on the google there and it seems that they do exist alright. The yanks seem to like it.

    http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/stihl-quick-chain-adjuster.57152/


  • Registered Users Posts: 89 ✭✭pilgrim pat


    dose wrangler star on youtube have his bar in upside down ?


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,797 ✭✭✭Kevin McCloud


    dose wrangler star on youtube have his bar in upside down ?

    He does, it cuts faster.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,311 ✭✭✭BreadnBuddha


    He does, it cuts faster.

    :)

    Pat, or anyone else who wonders, flip the bar when you swap or properly sharpen the chain so it wears both sides of the bar rather than just wearing the bottom. Doesn't matter which way up the writing is unless it's one of those 'special edition' Stihl two speed bars, but they're very rare. Like a left handed hammer rare if you know what I mean! ;)

    Remember to dress the burrs on the edge of the bar too with a flat file.


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