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Minimum wage increased to 11.50

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    #182
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    candytog wrote: »
    Anyway I'm leaving this argument now, I'm self employed I have to get back to work :p

    Have you looked into getting free labor from jobbridge by any chance? :p


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    #183
    TINA1984
    Closed Accounts Posts: 372 ✭✭TINA1984


    Spot the lah-lahtarian


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    #184
    Laois6556
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Laois6556


    Celly Smunt wrote: »
    And an enormous sense of entitlement that hasn't been shook off.

    Yes, we need to shake of the sense of entitlement employers feel they have to free labour.


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    #185
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    Laois6556 wrote: »
    Yes, we need to shake of the sense of entitlement employers feel they have to free labour.

    Sure.


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    #186
    Clandestine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Clandestine


    "Free labour"? I don't like Job bridge one bit but remember that no one is forcing those people to join it.


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    #187
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    Clandestine wrote: »
    "Free labour"? I don't like Job bridge one bit but remember that no one is forcing those people to join it.

    Apparently its jobbridge or working in a North Indian sweatshop in this thread...


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    #188
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    Celly Smunt wrote: »
    Over the short run yes,but when inflation overtakes the growth in wages, jobs are lost due to costs.
    Eh, no - that logic makes zero sense, you're just magicking 'costs' out of nowhere, and are assuming that the economy stays unchanging over the long run.

    Pretty blatant scaremongering, peppered with just enough jargon/obfuscation, to try and prevent people challenging it as nonsense.


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    #189
    candytog
    Registered Users Posts: 144 ✭✭candytog


    Celly Smunt wrote: »
    Stop being dramatic and clutching at straws,typical left over reaction.

    Actually no I'll reply to this.

    You cannot see past your ideals. You don't see that employers are hiring interns over and over again to do work and save money. They will not employ a permanent person until they have to. This is the reality.

    I have seen time and time again jobs that were previously advertised with a salary replaced with internships.

    This is harmful to the economy.


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    #190
    Laois6556
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Laois6556


    Celly Smunt wrote: »
    Sure.

    Glad we're finally agreed. :D


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    #191
    candytog
    Registered Users Posts: 144 ✭✭candytog


    Clandestine wrote: »
    "Free labour"? I don't like Job bridge one bit but remember that no one is forcing those people to join it.

    It's one of three choices: take up an internship, further your education, or have your dole cut.


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    #192
    Laois6556
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Laois6556


    Clandestine wrote: »
    "Free labour"? I don't like Job bridge one bit but remember that no one is forcing those people to join it.

    People feel they have no choice, they can't get paid work so this is a better alternative to emigration. Some people don't want to be on the dole doing nothing don't you know?


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    #193
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    KomradeBishop wrote: »
    Eh, no - that logic makes zero sense, you're just magicking 'costs' out of nowhere, and are assuming that the economy stays unchanging over the long run.

    Pretty blatant scaremongering, peppered with just enough jargon/obfuscation, to try and prevent people challenging it as nonsense.
    Wages up,materials up,utilities up,logistics up.The only costs that aren't effected to a great degree are long run costs.


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    #194
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Any greyhound workers in here
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #195
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    Laois6556 wrote: »
    People feel they have no choice, they can't get paid work so this is a better alternative to emigration...
    Ya and even emigration is a nonsense solution: The entire planet doesn't have enough job vacancies, to employ all of the unemployed worldwide - there still aren't enough jobs.

    These discussions always make heavy use of the Fallacy of Composition.


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    #196
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    Laois6556 wrote: »
    People feel they have no choice, they can't get paid work so this is a better alternative to emigration. Some people don't want to be on the dole doing nothing don't you know?

    What about free and paid third level education?


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    #197
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    Celly Smunt wrote: »
    Varies from industry to industry,I'd imagine in an employment market like today about 2 years.

    The government should pay people for 2 years until they get enough experience to work in a shop?

    There's another person on boards you would get along great with.


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    #198
    candytog
    Registered Users Posts: 144 ✭✭candytog


    Celly Smunt wrote: »
    Have you looked into getting free labor from jobbridge by any chance? :p

    Oh yea I have them doing all my ****e work, sure why wouldn't I it's free labour :p


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    #199
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    The government should pay people for 2 years until they get enough experience to work in a shop?

    There's another person on boards you would get along great with.

    Not at all,re read.


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    #200
    KomradeBishop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,981 ✭✭✭KomradeBishop


    Celly Smunt wrote: »
    Wages up,materials up,utilities up,logistics up.The only costs that aren't effected to a great degree are long run costs.
    Even an economically illiterate person (which is a step up beyond some of the economic intelligence on display here) can tell, that increasing the minimum wage, won't increase materials/utilities/logistics economy-wide, by the same percentage.

    It's an idiotic level of argument, where an infinitesimally small increase in any economic variable, is portrayed as if it will have a gigantic effect on every other variable in the economy.

    Pure scaremongering nonsense.


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    #201
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    KomradeBishop wrote: »
    Even an economically illiterate person (which is a step up beyond some of the economic intelligence on display here) can tell, that increasing the minimum wage, won't increase materials/utilities/logistics economy-wide, by the same percentage.

    Pure scaremongering nonsense.

    Jesus,are You actually saying that an increase in labour won't have a knock onto variable costs?


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    #202
    shruikan2553
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,113 ✭✭✭shruikan2553


    Celly Smunt wrote: »
    Not at all,re read.

    I'm guessing you have decided that only some industries should have their labour costs covered. How do we decide which these are? Should I earn half as much I did with less experience and qualifications?

    What industry requires 2 years experience?


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    #203
    Laois6556
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Laois6556


    Celly Smunt wrote: »
    What about free and paid third level education?

    Some people have already spent years in third level education. Young people can apply for grants and so forth but there's no gaurantee that they'll get them especially if they're living at home with their parents. They'd probably be living at home with their parents because they can't get paid employment. There's a lack of paid employment in part due to jobsbridge. It's a vicious circle.


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    #204
    Clandestine
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,466 ✭✭✭Clandestine


    Here's a short example of one reason the minimum wage is bad:

    -A company hires people, each employee brings in money for the company
    -One employee, a cleaner, generates 8 euro an hour for the company. He is paid 7 euro an hour.
    -A new minimum wage law is passed, which means all employees now earn 9 euro an hour
    -The employee is now generating a loss for the company, so he is made redundant.
    -He then is forced to sign on for unemployment benefits because he has no other marketable skills and can't find work elsewhere.


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    #205
    con___manx1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,474 ✭✭✭con___manx1


    candytog wrote: »
    You can call their work an internship and their salary an allowance all you like but the fact of the matter is people are working 40 hours a week for 150 euro.

    im pretty sure jobbridge pay an extra 50 on top of the dole so its 238 euro a week.


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    #206
    Celly Smunt
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,464 ✭✭✭Celly Smunt


    shruikan2553 wrote: »
    I'm guessing you have decided that only some industries should have their labour costs covered. How do we decide which these are? Should I earn half as much I did with less experience and qualifications?

    What industry requires 2 years experience?

    Lets keep it graduate so.The average graduate role requires an average of about 2 years experience from skimming through a few sites there. I don't know where the rest of your stuff came from


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    #207
    Laois6556
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Laois6556


    con___manx1 wrote: »
    im pretty sure jobbridge pay an extra 50 on top of the dole so its 238 euro a week.

    You get different rates depending on your age group.


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    #208
    sock puppet
    Registered Users Posts: 4,586 ✭✭✭sock puppet


    Clandestine wrote: »
    Here's a short example of one reason the minimum wage is bad:

    -A company hires people, each employee brings in money for the company
    -One employee, a cleaner, generates 8 euro an hour for the company. He is paid 7 euro an hour.
    -A new minimum wage law is passed, which means all employees now earn 9 euro an hour
    -The employee is now generating a loss for the company, so he is made redundant.
    -He then is forced to sign on for unemployment benefits because he has no other marketable skills and can't find work elsewhere.

    Any evidence?


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    #209
    LETHAL LADY
    Registered Users Posts: 3,145 ✭✭✭LETHAL LADY


    con___manx1 wrote: »
    im pretty sure jobbridge pay an extra 50 on top of the dole so its 238 euro a week.

    It is paid on top of your dole entitlement. So if you are entitled to €50 dole you will earn €100 on jobbridge.


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    #210
    Palinpropism
    Registered Users Posts: 32 ✭Palinpropism


    The only "debate" that is happening over increasing minimum wage is on the comments section of the irish times. They post the first article as an opinion piece on minimum wage and the debate rages on the comments section and then they post another declaring there is "debate" ongoing about the minimum wage?! This is cynical click-based journalism imo...its all about how much commenting, sharing, liking you get regardless of there being any substance to the piece.


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    #211
    jay-me
    Registered Users Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭jay-me


    Clandestine wrote: »
    Here's a short example of one reason the minimum wage is bad:

    -A company hires people, each employee brings in money for the company
    -One employee, a cleaner, generates 8 euro an hour for the company. He is paid 7 euro an hour.
    -A new minimum wage law is passed, which means all employees now earn 9 euro an hour
    -The employee is now generating a loss for the company, so he is made redundant.
    -He then is forced to sign on for unemployment benefits because he has no other marketable skills and can't find work elsewhere.

    You are missing a blatant variable in all of this.. Joe bloggs who got an increase in pay can now afford to get his windows cleaned by someone else instead of doing it himself which in turn generates more profit for the cleaning company.


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