X-Men Apocalypse

Nervous Wreck

BMMachine wrote: »

no, im not. Im saying that people enjoyed it because they enjoyed it because people are different. You know what I like? Alien 3. Yeah, its crap, but I enjoyed it. There was no brain washing about it or anything.
And Im not saying it was successful because of hype (though it always helps), it was successful because people enjoyed it. Learn the difference between quality and enjoyment and be comfortable with that and you wont get so humpty when someone calls something you like bad.
And yeah, I can imagine people ignoring points in order to protect themselves and their own tastes, standards and opinions - its actually one of the core reasons why we get washed over with so many crap films that do well. Think adam sandler is a success by accident? You think the people that watch his films care about standards and quality? They do - their own. Deadpool was above average at best. Thats a harsh reality for some people because they are so invested in the character and film and they can't take it if something they think is 'glorious' is actually just mediocre

So, yeah, just gonna refer you to this:

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

getting weirdly judgemental doesnt make your point any stronger; it just makes people more likely to ignore your points completely.

I'm out of this one.

BMMachine

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

So, yeah, just gonna refer you to this:



I'm out of this one.

as I said, protecting yourself. Still doesn't stop reality

Sad Professor

BMMachine, in this forum a film's quality is a matter of personal perspective. So sorry, but you don't get to arbitrate on whether a film is good or bad and tell other users they are wrong. Read the charter please, specifically the bit about making generalised judgments on users for having a different opinion to you.

This is the second in-thread warning, so lets drop this please and get back to discussing the film. If anyone has any questions or problems with what I just posted, PM please, thanks.

Ben Gadot

Nervous Wreck wrote: »

I reckon that's Sony insisting on her being front and centre cos JLaw is, for some reason, a box office draw. She's a crap actor and Mystique has no business being anything but a side-villain but they cast her before her fame exploded so they're making use of her contract. What's weird is she wants out, yet they still have her as the focus right at the end... You'd think they'd have killed her or had her move on...

Lawrence being a "crap actress" is not the problem. The studio had a choice to make: placate her or drop her. Unfortunately they made the wrong decision.

Lawrence was a strong part of the previous two films, so for me she's fine in the role (never mind the accolades she's accumulated over the years to demonstrate her ability as an actress), she was just put in an utterly ridiculous position in this film.

And if that was a position she demanded then it was up to Singer and Fox to tell her to sling her hook.

brianregan09

For me the problem with Mystique leading the X-Men is simple in the comics she's rarely if ever on the good side , She's a cold blooded manipulative assassin which is how she was portrayed in the 1st set of X Movies and nothing more than that, even in the Brother Hood Magneto has no respect for her at all

Now bear with me for a second but lets say....a lackey from one of the Avengers Movies leads the avenger ...someone like say Crossbones (the guy who was in the start of civil war with the riot gear ) This would be **** on from a height by the fans no matter who the **** the actor is this is the problem with people who didn't make the source materiel making the films about them , and yeah sure you have to change certain things because what works on paper might not work on screen , But what Fox do is pick and choose between characters they have available to them and throw them here there and everywhere with little respect to the alliances and enemies built up in the books ...that's just my take on it

How many deaths was Magneto directly responsible for?

oxygen

McLoughlin wrote: »

A trilogy in each decade with a different cast would have been a better option I think First Class didn't do well on some level and a decision was made to bring back the old cast in a team up movie.

Fox need to wipe the slate clean and start fresh and really rest some characters

A clip removed from the film can be seen in this tv spot

Absolutely this would have made easy more sense. I liked DoFP and thought mixing the two cast was very clever. A 70 yea old magneto in X1(00s) makers chronological sense, but a 40 year old magneto in XAoA(80s) does not. Even when quicksilver was saying he saw magneto on tv 10 years ago... they both look exactly the same even prof X references it in the movie "Moire hasn't aged a day" all the rebooted cast movies should have stuck to the 60s, clothes looked cooler then anyway

Goldstein

Not sure this was the best movie to be inserting a gag about how crap The Last Stand was. Glasshouses and all that...

God it's been a while since a bad guy, let alone an iconic one, was represented so terribly and dully with such a nothing story. Afterwards I was just thinking: That was it? THAT was Apocalypse? They were given the greatest bad guy in the franchise and THAT'S the best they came up with?

That, bar another very enjoyable Quicksilver scene, was shît.

Yes. They get an actor with as much range as Oscar Isaacs and they put him in makeup. And that's the problem: with Mystique and Nightcrawler you can at least imagine that they're the creatures, but with Isaacs all you could see was the makeup. Then they have the 4 horsemen, which, apart from Magneto, was given absolutely nothing to do. What else did Olivia Munn do apart from frown or look good in a swimsuit? She barely had any dialogue! In a series that is known for having rich and complex female characters it felt like a misstep! And I'm almost certain that Apocalypse was wearing platform shoes.

And the new versions.. the only one they got right was Nightcrawler. The younger incarnations of Cyclops, Storm, and Jean Grey are awful.

The worst crime ?

The f*cking branding on f*cking Cyclops' f*cking glasses, so that wherever it showed them, which it did, a lot, that's all I could see, like an air siren screaming, "Product Placement. Product Placement".

pixelburp

Well it was a bit of a lumpen mess in the end really; not a total disaster by any stretch, but it was so scattershot and lacking that bit of polish or thought in the writing department that the whole thing felt very underwhelming rather than ostensibly terrible; not half as good as this could have been & there was an intelligent, tightly-focused film buried somewhere within all the clutter. Ultimately, the film's chief crime was simply to be boring, if I'm honest: pacing that was stop-start throughout and could never truly get itself going. And after the thrill of Civil War's narrow finale within the confines of a single building, it was quite the comedown that Apocalypse reverted the genre back to current fashion, with a fairly laughable level of CGI destruction by way of a finale. I wonder if after the success of Days of Future Past's epic scope and juggling of a huge cast of characters, the studio felt they could repeat the trick; it certainly smelt of enlarging the scope just for the sake of bigger spectacle.

The studio's 'name' driven script also further undermined the whole enterprise, shoving Mystique to the front of the films focus, purely due to the fluke that they hired what turned out to be the biggest actress in Hollywood. It was almost as obnoxious as the studio-mandated

Wolverine cameo

, a token nod to continuity in a film drowning in goofs that even the most casual of X-Men fans would have been scratching their heads over.

You know what I find odd? Magneto is responsible for the deaths of possible millions of people, given the destruction was worldwide and given that we saw multiple buildings collapse in New York. Sure, he was all about the death of people, if previous movies are anything to go by, but even then the character is shown to have a moral compass and a conscience, especially in the Fassbender portrayal and which leaks through in the McKellen one, all of which was completely lacking in the end. And it wasn't anything to do with mindcontrol, because Apocalypse just didn't.

What are they going to do in future movies? Will they do a Iron Man-esque moral shift (which, to be fair, Marvel have handled extremely well between Iron Man and Civil War) or will they just continue with Fassbender more or less ignoring his essential genocide against the world?

Brief_Lives

Sure, they're only Homo Sapiens.....

constitutionus

brianregan09 wrote: »

For me the problem with Mystique leading the X-Men is simple in the comics she's rarely if ever on the good side , She's a cold blooded manipulative assassin which is how she was portrayed in the 1st set of X Movies and nothing more than that, even in the Brother Hood Magneto has no respect for her at all

Now bear with me for a second but lets say....a lackey from one of the Avengers Movies leads the avenger ...someone like say Crossbones (the guy who was in the start of civil war with the riot gear ) This would be **** on from a height by the fans no matter who the **** the actor is this is the problem with people who didn't make the source materiel making the films about them , and yeah sure you have to change certain things because what works on paper might not work on screen , But what Fox do is pick and choose between characters they have available to them and throw them here there and everywhere with little respect to the alliances and enemies built up in the books ...that's just my take on it

exactly.

look at angel becoming archangel. in the comics it mattered because warren was a founding member of the team whom scott jean bobby and hank loved. when his wings got mutilated and he lost them the lad tried to commit suicide before ending up with apocalypse and getting turned into his "death" horseman.

theres fuking NONE of that pathos in this, and thanks to the way the characters have been handled over 6 films now no bloody chance of it happening for any of the existing cast. so what we get is one of the coolest reinterpretations of a character to come along in years in the x universe essentially be reduced to a drunken cage fighter with a grudge cause he's no film universe history with ANY of what the fans know is his team mates.

When you contrast that with the MCU where the characters relationships are respected you see just how shambolic the handling of the x franchise at fox has been.

theres simply little to no respect for the characters in these films outside xavier and magneto. its not as bad as the casual contempt micheal bay has for the transformers characters, but its getting too bloody close to that now for comfort.

i think the franchise needs to be take away from singer and given to vaughn. the more i look at it the more "first class" seem to be the only real complete X film theyve managed

EDIT.

outside deadpool of course , but as was mentioned by others fox didn't give fuk one about that and are probably STILL in shock its done so well.

How does Quicksilver find out about Magneto being his father? I can't remember it being mentioned in DoFP.

constitutionus

oh it was mentioned in DOFP, but only in passing by quicksliver himself with his "my mom knew a guy that could move metal" line.

No wonder I had forgotten about it.

TBH this movie could have been much better. What they should have done is gone the Star Wars route and had a different voice for the character. Imagine the Mountain being the body and someone like Laurence Fishbourne being the voice. Or at least someone else with a suitably booming voice as Apocalypse.

Foxtrol

constitutionus wrote: »

exactly.

look at angel becoming archangel. in the comics it mattered because warren was a founding member of the team whom scott jean bobby and hank loved. when his wings got mutilated and he lost them the lad tried to commit suicide before ending up with apocalypse and getting turned into his "death" horseman.

theres fuking NONE of that pathos in this, and thanks to the way the characters have been handled over 6 films now no bloody chance of it happening for any of the existing cast. so what we get is one of the coolest reinterpretations of a character to come along in years in the x universe essentially be reduced to a drunken cage fighter with a grudge cause he's no film universe history with ANY of what the fans know is his team mates.

When you contrast that with the MCU where the characters relationships are respected you see just how shambolic the handling of the x franchise at fox has been.

theres simply little to no respect for the characters in these films outside xavier and magneto. its not as bad as the casual contempt micheal bay has for the transformers characters, but its getting too bloody close to that now for comfort.

i think the franchise needs to be take away from singer and given to vaughn. the more i look at it the more "first class" seem to be the only real complete X film theyve managed

EDIT.

outside deadpool of course , but as was mentioned by others fox didn't give fuk one about that and are probably STILL in shock its done so well.

They could have so easily done something similar with Angel if they'd bothered to do any planning for the trilogy. They even state how only

2

of the original team are left,

with the only death of that group that had any sort of meaning being Havoc, with the deaths banshee and female angel not even happening on screen

.

All they needed to do was sub him in for Banshee's role in First Class (learning to fly and aerial support), see him get hurt on the beach, name drop him disappearing because he couldn't fly during DOFP, and then come back to him in this movie in a scene when he was at his lowest point and Apocalypse appears.

It takes no extra time and knowing him from before would add to both

Havoc's death, the shock/panic outside the mansion after that Angel was with the bad guys, and his own (presumed) death at the hands of the new crop of x-men in the final battle.

There's so many examples of how it appears they just start from scratch after each movie. If there wasn't a teaser for Apocalypse after DOFP there's no sign that there was one thing planned.

BMMachine

there was a lot they could have done with this film which they didnt do and a lot they did which they didn't need, hence its a mess. Its the 3rd of the new trilogy too and absolutely nothing happens

Hercule Poirot

Apocalypse does absolutely nothing apart from stomp around giving speeches and demanding the world - even in the final "showdown" (and I use the term very loosely) he doesn't actually do anything apart from the Harry Potter rip-off CGI.

The only x-man to die (Havok) does so through his own stupidity - "Hmmm, the Professor is being carried away from us, how do we get him back? Let's unleash an explosion in that general direction". But of course this had to happen because only then could Jean see that Scott had actual feelings and was not a complete Ferris Bueller rip-off. And there's nothing like tears to make a woman decide how much she would like to bone a man

The more I think about it the more pathetic the film becomes.

FunLover18

More of a general question; can Mystique replicate other mutants powers as well?

I rewatched the first X-Men and she when she becomes Wolverine she has his claws? Is it just physical attributes she can replicate?

AFAIR Mystique can only replicate what they look like. So maybe this also means all of their physical qualities, but not their mutant powers. Wolverine has the bone claws as well, so she'd have that, but not his invulnerability?

Mickeroo

She'd be able to replicate claws visually but not adamantium, they wouldn't be useful in a fight I would think.

FunLover18

Mickeroo wrote:

She'd be able to replicate claws visually but not adamantium, they wouldn't be useful in a fight I would think.

That makes sense, Wolverine hacked them off fairly handy

Hellrun

Watching this was a long and painful experience, my missus loved it though. Each to their own.

Ben Gadot

Was just thinking that Id watch a film based on Apocalypse, his original horsemen and the revolt against him. That opening scene was probably one of the best of the film with horsemen that were actually intriguing.

Sure they can pull some time travel sh1t to add some popular X-Men to sweeten the deal. :pac:

jcsoulinger

Seen this last night, Im not a comic book fan so how it relates doesn't interest me. My first reaction was that it was really good but thinking about it a bit more there were times when it was a bit too cheesey, it also has some continuity issues like when a group of them are captured and put in a cell that prevents them from using their powers, why isn't Mystique blue?.

Still much better than Age of Ultron or Bat v Super imo, 7/10

Kirby

As somebody who enjoyed x1,2,3, First class and Days of future past......I found this really quite poor and is easily the weakest of the six movies. X3 did a lot wrong but it has some redeeming qualities that I just struggled to find in this one.

It was a mess. The plot barely made sense, most of the cast were wasted and it was difficult to understand the motivation of many of the characters. DoFP is a much, much, much better movie.

And as for Jlaw throwing a strop, I'm sorry sweetheart but this is what you signed up for. Sitting in the make up chair for half the day must be awful but you are being paid millions to do it and far loftier actors than you have done it for a lot less money. Tbh I echo the sentiments that a few have said in here. The studio should have put their foot down.

oxygen

FunLover18 wrote: »

That makes sense, Wolverine hacked them off fairly handy

I remember winching watching that scene in X1, thinking didn't he just cut off her biological appendages, similar to fingers

oxygen

I would just about trust Singer to take the helms of the next movie. X1, X2 and DoFP were great (albeit DoFP had the great gimmick of two fully established movie cast) but man, AoA was such a let down.

I think the next one should go full 90s, use the story "X-cutioner's Song" basically the release of a mutant killing virus by a maniac who turns out to be Cables clone. Humans should be suitably racist by now, after the destruction caused by Magneto.

things I'd like to see

-Cable (after being established in the next Deadpool movie)
- Bishop and blink from DoFP,
- Strife and Sinister(he will be established in the next wolverine movie, and AoA post credit scene)
- Xavier and Taggart aged 20 years
- Storm
- A Cyclops and Gene romance
- A Gambit and Rogue romance
- Rogue with full flight and strength powers
- No Magneto
- No Mystique

Riddle101

Saw it today and honestly I enjoyed it. I actually went into that movie with lower expectations due to the reviews on this thread, but I left feeling a lot happier with it.

Somethings about the movies i'd like to address
People say that Jennifer Lawrence was kind've showcased all over the movie, and that it was more Jennifer Lawrence and the X-Men but in my opinion I think her role in the movie was ok. Everyone in that movie had their moments and scenes, and her level of exposure in the movie wasn't too bad.

I feel that William Striker is underused in the X-Men prequels. For someone who is supposed to be one of the X-Men's biggest antagonists, his role in these movies seems kind've mundane. I feel like they're just adding him in for the sake of making a connection between the sequels and the originals, and also because they wanted the Hugh Jackman cameo.