Asylum Seeker protest on Kinsale Road. Mod warning in OP.

Daisy Dasi

Mod Warning

Keep it civil please, play the ball, not the man!


hi everyone as you all pretty much know about the media coverage on asylum seekers living in Direct Provision since the summer resulting in several protests in Direct Provision Centres all over the country.

It all seems to have sparked off with comments from Aodhan O'Riordain saying he was going to stake his job on changing the system and wouldn't stand over it. But on Wednesday in the Seanad he had a totally different stance saying he knows direct provision isn't perfect but has accommodated 51,000 asylum seekers since it has been implemented (half the population of Cork! ) He also said not one asylum seeker was homeless throughout it's the years the centres are running. He said anyone in the system over 4 years has exhausted every avenue and are only in the state due to court injunctions in place on their deportations.... Why is everyone getting up in arms when the Direct Provision was set up for asylum seekers looking for refugee status but ends up housing people who fail their asylum applications and apply instead for subsidiary protection, leave to remain, humanitarian grounds etc...

Asylum seekers get their response regarding their asylum case within 3 to 6 months if not sooner.... so direct provision was only set up to accomodate people for this length of time and never envisaged housing people for up to 10 years. In 2005 a lot of asylum seekers were given amnesty under the Irish Born child scheme which had constant movement of asylum seekers out of the system but since that loophole has been closed the movement from centres stagnated.

Easter 2015 brings about changes which means asylum seekers can apply for all processes at once with only one appeal compared to 4 different processes with two appeals per process. This ensures asylum seekers will be fastracked but can you imagine the Irish deporting failed asylum seekers as they aren't deporting people even now?

tolerant from cork

Finally someone talking about it. Could write a book about asylum seekers, their frauds, scams etc. while honest taxpayers are left with no interest or help when they really need it.

Daisy Dasi

tolerant from cork wrote: »

Finally someone talking about it. Could write a book about asylum seekers, their frauds, scams etc. while honest taxpayers are left with no interest or help when they really need it.

Tolerant from Cork are you one of the "f them all out of the country" type or have you facts to back this up?

AlekSmart

tolerant from cork wrote: »

Finally someone talking about it. Could write a book about asylum seekers, their frauds, scams etc. while honest taxpayers are left with no interest or help when they really need it.

There will be somebody along presently with a Typewriter and some paper to facilitate your literary endeavours......just give it a few minutes ...

tolerant from cork

Daisy Dasi wrote: »

Tolerant from Cork are you one of the "f them all out of the country" type or have you facts to back this up?

I have the facts, don't worry. I know those places inside out. Just ask me constuctive questions and I'll be happy to answer them all best to my knowledge.

AlekSmart

Daisy Dasi wrote: »

Hi everyone,as you all pretty much know about the media coverage on asylum seekers living in Direct Provision since the summer,resulted in several protests in Direct Provision Centres all over the country.

It all seems to have sparked off with comments from Aodhan O'Riordain saying he was going to stake his job on changing the system and wouldn't stand over it. But on Wednesday in the Seanad he had a totally different stance saying he knows direct provision isn't perfect but has accommodated 51,000 asylum seekers since it has been implemented (half the population of Cork! ) He also said not one asylum seeker was homeless throughout it's the years the centres are running. He said anyone in the system over 4 years has exhausted every avenue and are only in the state due to court injunctions in place on their deportations.... Why is everyone getting up in arms when the Direct Provision was set up for asylum seekers looking for refugee status but ends up housing people who fail their asylum applications and apply instead for subsidiary protection, leave to remain, humanitarian grounds etc...

Asylum seekers get their response regarding their asylum case within 3 to 6 months if not sooner.... so direct provision was only set up to accomodate people for this length of time and never envisaged housing people for up to 10 years. In 2005 a lot of asylum seekers were given amnesty under the Irish Born child scheme which had constant movement of asylum seekers out of the system but since that loophole has been closed the movement from centres stagnated.

Easter 2015 brings about changes which means asylum seekers can apply for all processes at once with only one appeal compared to 4 different processes with two appeals per process. This ensures asylum seekers will be fastracked but can you imagine the Irish deporting failed asylum seekers as they aren't deporting people even now?

Some valid points for sure,however far too focused for those who tend to see ANY attempt to control or otherwise moderate numbers seeking Asylum or Refugee status in Ireland.

Many people fail to realise that significant numbers of these "unfortunates" which Ireland allegedly treats so inhumanely,have embarked upon lengthy and largely vexatious legal challenges to our systems,with significant assistance,encouragement and connivance from support agencies,charities and sectors involved in the "business".

It seems that,for many,it is a pre-requisite that Ireland,it's Laws,Traditions,People and Economy have to be portrayed as backward,oppressive and intolerant in order to make some obtuse point or other to the rest of the World ?

AlekSmart

tolerant from cork wrote: »

I have the facts, don't worry. I know those places inside out. Just ask me constuctive questions and I'll be happy to answer them all best to my knowledge.

To the best of your knowledge,are these protests in any way valid or are they orchestrated by outside influences ?

tolerant from cork

AlekSmart wrote: »

There will be somebody along presently with a Typewriter and some paper to facilitate your literary endeavours......just give it a few minutes ...

No need for that. Can type myself You go and write your own about do-gooders like yourself.

tolerant from cork

AlekSmart wrote: »

To the best of your knowledge,are these protests in any way valid or are they orchestrated by outside influences ?

They are influenced by all the do-gooders like NASC that are living in lulu-land. Honestly, their most recent demands are to completely and for all stop deportation process and give houses to all successful asylum seekers. Can this country afford it? If yes ... I'll join them myself.

AlekSmart

tolerant from cork wrote: »

No need for that. Can type myself You go and write your own about do-gooders like yourself.

A bit DW Griffitish surely...... ?

It's early yet.

AlekSmart

tolerant from cork wrote: »

No need for that. Can type myself You go and write your own about do-gooders like yourself.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/state-fears-alternative-to-direct-provision-will-attract-asylum-seekers-1.1932537

Perhaps you are confusing me with this good Senator....

.Senator Trevor Ó Clochartaigh said there was an impression that asylum seekers were often low-skilled individuals, when many were highly qualified lawyers, doctors or teachers who had sought asylum here to escape hostile conditions in their home countries.

Trevor playing to the tolerant gallery in the chamber....but the Supreme Court managed to rumble at least one of the better qualified examples...It's 16 pages,but it's a real pot-boiler for that

.http://www.courts.ie/supremecourt/sclibrary3.nsf/%28WebFiles%29/E3E3E53F573DC9C2802578CC0033B69A/$FILE/Ezeani%20%26%20Anor%20v%20MJLR.pdf

Oddly enough at least one other Politician appeared to have her reality spectacles on that day....

Senator Hildegarde Naughton (FG) said recent disquiet among asylum seekers and support organisations was understandable, given the length of time people were spending in the system.

But she said key facts needed to be considered, such as a 90 per cent refusal rate for asylum appeals over the past 10 years.

“I feel that sometimes the impression is given that we are discussing actual refugees when in the vast majority of cases what we are discussing are economic migrants or those applying for some other form of leave to remain,” she said.

“Additional to this is the fact that over 50 per cent of those in direct provision have judicial review proceedings pending or in train, having deportation orders pending or are applying for leave to remain for non-protection reasons.”

Daisy Dasi

AlekSmart wrote: »

A bit DW Griffitish surely...... ?

It's early yet.

I'm lost..... what does that mean??

AlekSmart

Daisy Dasi wrote: »

I'm lost..... what does that mean??

I mean,in this thread.....the pattern already well developed on these one's....;)

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057284004&page=24

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057284643&page=68

Have you contributed ?

Daisy Dasi

"Another resident, who came originally from Malawi four years ago, and who built stages in Dublin for large international music stars including Jay-Z, before seeking asylum last year, said direct provision is denying people their human rights."

Irish Examiner Tuesday 16th September..

What happened him that after being in the country for 3 years he suddenly remembered he is in fear of his life to return home?

We have to bear in mind these protesters are failed asylum seekers and haven't any legal basis to remain on the country..

Daisy Dasi

Have you contributed ?[/quote]

No, to be honest I haven't.... I live in County Cork and it's only since the Cork protests started and the local media here becoming saturated with it that the whole issue has piqued my interest.... I have looked into a lot on the subject in the last week....

tolerant from cork

Daisy Dasi wrote: »

"Another resident, who came originally from Malawi four years ago, and who built stages in Dublin for large international music stars including Jay-Z, before seeking asylum last year, said direct provision is denying people their human rights."

Irish Examiner Tuesday 16th September..

What happened him that after being in the country for 3 years he suddenly remembered he is in fear of his life to return home?

We have to bear in mind these protesters are failed asylum seekers and haven't any legal basis to remain on the country..

I know him ... Didn't know that about him though. Funny, after 3 years of work he claimed social saying that he couldn't afford a haircut.
This is a great country.

Black Swan

AlekSmart wrote: »

There will be somebody along presently with a Typewriter and some paper to facilitate your literary endeavours......just give it a few minutes ...

Daisy Dasi wrote: »

Tolerant from Cork are you one of the "f them all out of the country" type or have you facts to back this up?

tolerant from cork wrote: »

No need for that. Can type myself You go and write your own about do-gooders like yourself.

MOD REMINDER:
This is the Politics discussion forum. Please try to raise your standards for posting, and focus on the thread topic and not each other. Thanks.

enricoh

Whoever is orchestrating the media campaign on the centres residents is doing a great job.
No sticky questions from any interviewers in any reports I' ve heard helps too
I was wondering how it took years n years to reach a decision n it turns out most are rejected as bogus n are just doing appeal after appeal

AlekSmart

enricoh wrote: »

Whoever is orchestrating the media campaign on the centres residents is doing a great job.

No sticky questions from any interviewers in any reports I' ve heard helps too.

I was wondering how it took years n years to reach a decision n it turns out most are rejected as bogus n are just doing appeal after appeal

The reality of our much derided Asylum decision process is that it IS fulfilling its purpose in the majority of cases.

However,not alone are the failed applicants then afforded significant leeway to challenge it's findings on an apparently endless basis,but even when all of those avenues are exhausted,the failed ones can simply disappear.

The lack of "Sticky Questions" as you describe them,is I fear down to the ever present "Racism" card lying on the table,waiting for any such line of questioning to appear,when it will be quickly slapped down with a loud GOTCHA !!!! :eek:

What I have constantly challenged in several threads is the oft repeated cry that our Asylum System is fundamentally flawed,and failing large numbers of applicants...It is NOT.

However,the Asylum System and those administering it,is itself being failed by a lack of Political will to support and act upon it's own decisions.

Daisy Dasi

I cannot help feel, as Alek Smart has stated, the asylum process in Ireland works, it's the deportation process has failed.... Minister Aodhan O'Riordain has said anyone in the system for more than 4 years has exhausted every avenue available but have court injuctions in place on their removal from the State.


If people were deported swiftly then everything is clear cut and asylum seekers would know exactly where they stand. What exactly is the reason Ireland is slow to deport failed asylum seekers?

Is it the cost of hiring chartered flights complete with doctors, immigration officials, phycologists etc on board? Is it the lack of organisation on the Irish state to round up a plane load all at once to be more cost efficient? Is the Irish State just hoping these failed asylum seekers just simply move on? Or are they, as you say, afraid of the racist card being dealt?

It seems to get a deportation letter in this country is no big deal and obviously not taken seriously as they are so easily contested and rarely acted upon. Support groups such as Residents Against Racism and The Anti Deportation League have unrealistic goals in trying to get Ireland to abolish deportations.

Even one of the demands of the residents of the Kinsale Road Accommodation Centre was to grant them all status and revoke all deportations. Ireland has every right to protect its boundaries, and deportation is an end process of immigration in every country of the world.

When Ireland attempts to deport people from the state, the reaction from these anti deportation groups in unreasonable and unrealistic.

Ireland has a success rate of 8% of successful applications trying to claim asylum. Ireland is always scrutinised as to why it has such low rates of success.

The reason being: Ireland is not the first port of call for the majority of asylum seekers if not all as there are no direct flights from here to Africa or the war torn countries of the Middle East.

The genuine asylum seekers, claim and receive asylum at their first port of call... namely Amsterdam, France, United Kingdom or other countries accessable via boat such as Italy or Malta. The reason being: the genuine asylum seekers are just happy to land in a safe country and will apply without the risk of trying to enter another EU country without proper documentation.

If asylum seekers fail in these first ports of call, they move on and claim somewhere else. Ireland is often a back up plan and to be fair, is a pretty lenient country in how to process their applications, their right to appeal and also has very lenient deportation laws.

Ask any asylum seeker how or why did they come to Ireland and you will find a sudden bout of amnesia occurs.

Nodin

Daisy Dasi wrote: »

I cannot help feel, as Alek Smart has stated, the asylum process in Ireland works, it's the deportation process has failed.... Minister Aodhan O'Riordain has said anyone in the system for more than 4 years has exhausted every avenue available but have court injuctions in place on their removal from the State.


If people were deported swiftly then everything is clear cut and asylum seekers would know exactly where they stand. What exactly is the reason Ireland is slow to deport failed asylum seekers?

Is it the cost of hiring chartered flights complete with doctors, immigration officials, phycologists etc on board? Is it the lack of organisation on the Irish state to round up a plane load all at once to be more cost efficient? Is the Irish State just hoping these failed asylum seekers just simply move on? Or are they, as you say, afraid of the racist card being dealt?

It seems to get a deportation letter in this country is no big deal and obviously not taken seriously as they are so easily contested and rarely acted upon. Support groups such as Residents Against Racism and The Anti Deportation League have unrealistic goals in trying to get Ireland to abolish deportations.

Even one of the demands of the residents of the Kinsale Road Accommodation Centre was to grant them all status and revoke all deportations. Ireland has every right to protect its boundaries, and deportation is an end process of immigration in every country of the world.

When Ireland attempts to deport people from the state, the reaction from these anti deportation groups in unreasonable and unrealistic.

Ireland has a success rate of 8% of successful applications trying to claim asylum. Ireland is always scrutinised as to why it has such low rates of success.

The reason being: Ireland is not the first port of call for the majority of asylum seekers if not all as there are no direct flights from here to Africa or the war torn countries of the Middle East.

The genuine asylum seekers, claim and receive asylum at their first port of call... namely Amsterdam, France, United Kingdom or other countries accessable via boat such as Italy or Malta. The reason being: the genuine asylum seekers are just happy to land in a safe country and will apply without the risk of trying to enter another EU country without proper documentation.

If asylum seekers fail in these first ports of call, they move on and claim somewhere else. Ireland is often a back up plan and to be fair, is a pretty lenient country in how to process their applications, their right to appeal and also has very lenient deportation laws.

Ask any asylum seeker how or why did they come to Ireland and you will find a sudden bout of amnesia occurs.

That's irrelevant.

TrishMaz11

Not everyone in these provision are failed asylum. Some people are waiting for their interviews which is taking forever. People should be open minded treat people as you want to be treated cause tomorrow never promise anyone.

tolerant from cork

Nodin wrote: »

That's irrelevant.

Of course it is relevant. How couldn't it be?

tolerant from cork

TrishMaz11 wrote: »

Not everyone in these provision are failed asylum. Some people are waiting for their interviews which is taking forever. People should be open minded treat people as you want to be treated cause tomorrow never promise anyone.

Of course not everyone is failed asylum seeker, but most of them are. All of the honest and genuine ones are interviewed within a month from arrival and fully processed in 6 - 12 months. That's the 8% mentioned earlier. The rest stays in direct provision forever and produces child after child every 9 months to increase their chances of getting status on behalf of every child they applied for.

Daisy Dasi

Nodin wrote: »

That's irrelevant.

it's very relevant as Ireland is continually getting slated for its low success rates of asylum seekers. If they have failed in their first port of call, why should they succeed here?

Daisy Dasi

Ireland is also one of few countries which rehomes programme refugees. These programme refugees are taken directly from refugee camps in war torn countries such as Syria and given immediate refugee status on arriving in Ireland.

UNHCR website:


"90 programme refugees to make Ireland their new home

20 September 2013

Some 90 refugees are to be admitted for resettlement in Ireland as part of the Irish Resettlement programme operated in partnership with UNHCR. 

The arrivals this year will bring to 1,064 the number of refugees admitted to Ireland since 2000, when the programme was established.

31 vulnerable people are expected to arrive from Syria in the coming weeks, as are 29 refugees from DR Congo who are currently in a refugee camp in Tanzania. A family of four from Syria were resettled in July.

Ireland is one of a small number of states who take part in the UNHCR resettlement programme, which is coordinated in Ireland by the Office for the Promotion of Migrant Integration. The programme provides durable solutions for refugees who are living in perilous conditions or have specific needs that cannot be met in the country where they have sought protection.

In the past, groups resettled in Ireland include Hungarians in the 1950s, Vietnamese in the 1970s and Bosnians and Kosovars in the 1990s.

The need for resettlement is far greater than the number of resettlemetn places available. Of the 10.5 million refugees of concern to UNHCR around the world, only about 1 per cent are submitted by the agency for resettlement."





 

Daisy Dasi

The Journal 1st February 2014 -( I cannot post links as I am a new user)

"IRELAND WILL ACCEPT 90 Syrian refugees this year, the government has told the United Nation’s refugee agency.

Most will be resettled from host countries in the Middle East and North African region. According to the Department of Justice, they could possibly come from over-populated camps in Lebanon and Jordan.

“This number will include provision for up to four medical cases whose medical needs can only be met through resettlement,” a statement to TheJournal.ie revealed. ”The UNHCR has begun the process of identifying medical cases for consideration by the Irish authorities.”

During 2013, 35 Syrian refugees came to Ireland from Syrian UNHCR refugee camps.

That number included one medical case, in which a family of four of Iraqi/Palestinian origin arrived in July. They have been resettled in Cork.

Eight Afghan refugee families and two single Afghan men arrived in Ireland on 7 November 2013 from Damascus, Syria. The entire group of 31 people is currently living in a reception centre while participating in a language and orientation programme.

The 31 Afghan refugees was admitted under an EU funded Preparatory Action for Emergency Resettlement.

Separately, there were 38 applications for asylum from those claiming to be from Syria in 2013. So far this year, there have been five such applications from Syrians.

In 2012, fewer than 10 Syrians had applied for refugee status in Ireland."

And again here is another example of Ireland introducing programme refugees into the country.I for one whole heartily agree with programme refugees who are living in awful cramped, dirty conditions in refugee camps without clean water and very limited food supplies. I would prefer if the Irish government could fill the direct provision centres with programme refugees while they find suitable accommodation in Ireland and deport any failed asylum seekers who are clogging up the system and draining the State of funds that could be used on getting programme refugees out of these dire conditions.

Lucy and Harry

beggars cant be choosers.they should be glad we take them in and feed them etc.What do we get from their birth countries.Sweet F all.I would get a lorry and send the protesters to the North Pole.Santa can look after them we cant afford them.Why dont they go to England why come here we are in recession.

"IRELAND WILL ACCEPT 90 Syrian refugees this year, the government has told the United Nation’s refugee agency.

Hope they are Christians that are being beheaded and told to convert or die and not Isis or Al Nusra loving rebels.People need to be questioned before being let in.

Daisy Dasi

tolerant from cork wrote: »

They are influenced by all the do-gooders like NASC that are living in lulu-land. Honestly, their most recent demands are to completely and for all stop deportation process and give houses to all successful asylum seekers. Can this country afford it? If yes ... I'll join them myself.

Don't you mean unsuccessful asylum seekers as successful asylum seekers are declared refugees and can access social welfare benefits such as rent allowance schemes?

AlekSmart

Daisy Dasi wrote: »

Ireland is also one of few countries which rehomes programme refugees. These programme refugees are taken directly from refugee camps in war torn countries such as Syria and given immediate refugee status on arriving in Ireland.

UNHCR website:


"90 programme refugees to make Ireland their new home

20 September 2013

Some 90 refugees are to be admitted for resettlement in Ireland as part of the Irish Resettlement programme operated in partnership with UNHCR. 

The arrivals this year will bring to 1,064 the number of refugees admitted to Ireland since 2000, when the programme was established.

31 vulnerable people are expected to arrive from Syria in the coming weeks, as are 29 refugees from DR Congo who are currently in a refugee camp in Tanzania. A family of four from Syria were resettled in July.

Ireland is one of a small number of states who take part in the UNHCR resettlement programme, which is coordinated in Ireland by the Office for the Promotion of Migrant Integration. The programme provides durable solutions for refugees who are living in perilous conditions or have specific needs that cannot be met in the country where they have sought protection.


In the past, groups resettled in Ireland include Hungarians in the 1950s, Vietnamese in the 1970s and Bosnians and Kosovars in the 1990s.

The need for resettlement is far greater than the number of resettlemetn places available. Of the 10.5 million refugees of concern to UNHCR around the world, only about 1 per cent are submitted by the agency for resettlement."

 

As you are learning,the debate on "relevance" can be extended to the length of a piece of string.

However when posters point out the actual success of Irelands past efforts at resettling genuinely needy displaced persons,they are almost casually brushed aside,with derisory comments and assertions implying a "racist" intent.

Irelands success rate in the past is down to the realistic numbers we accepted and the well planned and executed programmes put in place to facilitate those accepted into it.

I have known,worked and socialized with people who benefited from past Resettlement programmes and they remain hugely positive about it,particularly when compared to our country's situation both geographically and financially.

The artifical,virtually commercial,rates of arrival which existed for the early years of the 21st Century presented Ireland with huge challenges,some of which continue to restrict our ability to deal with today's situation.

To my mind,Ireland needs to focus on what it has done exceedingly well in the past,focus on HOW it managed that and get back to it asap.

Adopting the welcoming stance towards allcomers,without robustly sifting through their numbers,and physically removing those non-compliant may be good for Irelands self-image on the Liberal stage,but who'll pay for this largesse ?

Daisy Dasi

Lucy and Harry wrote: »

beggars cant be choosers.they should be glad we take them in and feed them etc.What do we get from their birth countries.Sweet F all.I would get a lorry and send the protesters to the North Pole.Santa can look after them we cant afford them.Why dont they go to England why come here we are in recession.[/quote

A lot of the people in the centres 9 years came just as they closed the loophole for the Irish Born Child scheme which gave parents of children born before 2005 an automatic entitlement to remain in the country. The amount of asylum seekers who came to Ireland prior to 2005 was extremely high such as over 11,500 applicants in 2002 compared to just over 4000 in 2005 and just 946 new applicants in 2013.

Surely there couldn't be such a huge drop off in numbers so quickly but the only reasonable explanation is that many people came to Ireland pre 2005 in the guise of asylum seekers to claim under the Irish Born Child scheme. Everyone probably remembers the heavily pregnant asylum seekers arriving in their droves.

Now Ireland is in recession, it doesn't appeal so much to economic migrants but in relation to your post... the people who are in the system 9 years are here pre-recession days...