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Asylum Seeker protest on Kinsale Road. Mod warning in OP.

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    #182
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    tolerant from cork wrote: »
    Every single approach to implement any of the rules (i.e. no smoking in the rooms) is always met with abuse accusations and a racist card pulled out.

    No doubt you've evidence for these 'wild' accusations, eh?


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    #183
    Daisy Dasi
    Registered Users Posts: 47 ✭Daisy Dasi


    Pixie Elf wrote: »
    its an improvement for sure.... not everyone is in them yet...bit of a stretch to call them apartments...

    the situation remains that even if families are slowly being transfered to interconnected rooms they may have already been in one room for the past 5/6/7 years..........

    the key issue is the length of time people have been in the system

    Wonder how much these renovations cost? Sounds extensive...


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    #184
    tolerant from cork
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭tolerant from cork


    alastair wrote: »
    No doubt you've evidence for these 'wild' accusations, eh?

    Yes I do


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    #185
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    Pixie Elf wrote: »
    I have personally been shouted and asked to leave on a number of occasions... the most recent is when i was asking parents to get their children involved in a project... that was management...

    Prior to that there is one security guard in particular that took a dislike to me visiting the centre and everytime i attended would be like a hawk, one foot into the canteen (visitors not allowed inside) to wave at someone and call them out and he would be on me....

    Intimacy between parents is briefly dicussed in unesco report - parenting in direct provision (not allowed to post links)

    Earlier in the thread you brought up a conversation between you and a 4 year old resident.....
    I dont share this conversation to try and change others opinions but to give an insight into the lives of the children living in the centres now....
    Pixie Elf: #84 She was born in Ireland and knows no other life than that of direct provision. I am supporting because I want her to have the stability of a home where her parents are allowed to be role models and choose her nutritional intake.

    Assuming both parents are in DP,how long have they been in DP,and at what stage in the process are they now ?

    You see,I'm leaning towards this child being used as a lever to further dislodge the blocks from the Asylum System wall,in the hope of a collapse.

    I was originally of the impression that you were a resident of a DP centre.

    However,it now appears you are not,but instead an activist who supports the protesting elements of the DP residents.

    Thus when I read your remarks regarding an individual Security Guard who incurred your wrath for actually doing his job,I feel compelled to review other elements of your posts in this added light.

    You are obviously up to speed on the various rules & regulations surrounding the operation of this DP centre,yet you feel that Security Staff should "Blind Eye" your transgressing of those rules.

    If however,residents were to experience harassment or have their property stolen,would I be correct in thinking you would be equally demanding that security be tightened up ?

    So,what we have is a significant package of complaints,or at least the reissuance of complaints already in the public domain,by a person NOT directly involved,but who deems themselves of sufficient importance to criticise Security Staff for their diligence.

    To some observers it could entirely be possible that you could be seen to be inflaming the situation or otherwise inciting DP residents to protest.

    What is your personal attitude towards those DP residents who choose NOT to participate in such protests?

    You have very clearly and honestly declared your bias in this thread topic,but I also feel that you hold considerable bias against anything the State may implement in regard to Asylum Seekers or Refugee Provision.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #186
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Gatling wrote: »
    A 7 year old draft document for submission on house rules and proceedures ,
    By an independent and well-regarded body with expertise in the area? Yes.
    Gatling wrote: »
    As i stated earlier hundreds of asylum cases through the courts and yet not one mention of the accusation/s
    You're certain of this?
    Gatling wrote: »
    No leaked press stories
    It's not exactly front page news material, is it?
    Gatling wrote: »
    No human rights groups screaming about this
    Other than the ones raising it as a concern?


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    #187
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    tolerant from cork wrote: »
    Yes I do

    Let's see it then.


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    #188
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    alastair wrote: »
    By an independent and well-regarded body with expertise in the area? Yes.


    You're certain of this? Yes i am


    It's not exactly front page news material, is it?( why wouldn't it be )


    Other than the ones raising it as a concern?
    havent heard other than the usual DP is bad
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #189
    Daisy Dasi
    Registered Users Posts: 47 ✭Daisy Dasi


    tolerant from cork wrote: »
    Room checks are explained in the rule book. Every room has to be checked once a week for maintenance purposes. In a regular hotel it's done when guests move out but here obviously it couldn't be done that way.

    I guess random room checks are warranted with long term stays in rooms? What if some rooms had electrical problems? I guess its better to do maintenance checks than the whole place burned down! If I was a manager and it's stated in RIAs rule books that weekly room checked were required, I would rather be accused of doing my job than not....

    Imagine if a fire broke out then residents would be quick to say "management never checked our rooms and we could have burned to death!" Guess it's a case of you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.
    I guess if it is in the RIA rule books, this issue needs to be raises WITH RIA... not ordinary workers fufilling duties...


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    #190
    tolerant from cork
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭tolerant from cork


    alastair wrote: »
    Let's see it then.

    You didn't ask the person accusing the staff for any evidence but you request it from me. I must be special.

    Still ... sorry can't do it here, as it contains personal details of some people. At the same time don't worry appropriate bodies were notified.


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    #191
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Gatling wrote: »
    havent heard other than the usual DP is bad

    Given that you claim to know the specifics of every asylum seeker's testimony in court over the years, I have to admit doubts about the veracity of your insights.


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    #192
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,595 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Daisy Dasi wrote: »
    IAnother lady who rang Red Fm from the Kinsale Road (Cecilia was the name she used) told a very shocked Neil Prenderville she was fleeing an abusive husband.... Is there something wrong with this pucture? The system (as in all systems) is open to abuse... as previously stated I would far prefer tax payers money to go directly to rescuing programme refugees from refugee camps from war zones...

    To some people here fleeing an abusive husband is more than enough reason to be granted asylum in a far away country. We're open for business for all the troubles and ills of the world.


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    #193
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    tolerant from cork wrote: »
    You didn't ask the person accusing the staff for any evidence but you request it from me. I must be special.
    You are - you've proven yourself dishonest in this thread.
    tolerant from cork wrote: »
    Still ... sorry can't do it here, as it contains personal details of some people.
    That's handy.
    tolerant from cork wrote: »
    SAt the same time don't worry appropriate bodies were notified.
    I wasn't worried. It didn't seem a particularly convincing claim.


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    #194
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    walshb wrote: »
    To some people here fleeing an abusive husband is more than enough reason to be granted asylum in a far away country. We're open for business for all the troubles and ills of the world.

    Sorry. Who was granted asylum for that reason?


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    #195
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,595 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Pixie Elf wrote: »
    residents have to sign everyday to show they are in attendance....

    they are not allowed to spend the night outside the centre - some do stay out sometimes at risk of this information being passed to reception and integration agency

    I also know that at times security burst into rooms as early as 11pm and mark residents absent if they are not there.....

    And are these rules somehow unfair?


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    #196
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,595 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    alastair wrote: »
    Sorry. Who was granted asylum for that reason?

    Nobody I know.


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    #197
    reprise
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,372 ✭✭✭reprise


    alastair wrote: »
    I didn't notice anything about dumped prams in the report, so once you can produce an NGO researched report that makes such claims, I'll grant you that it's on a par. Until then...

    Is that your definition of a professionally researched report? Did you actually read it? I must have missed the bit that explained how it was compiled and where the information was obtained. You see anything there yourself?
    alastair wrote: »
    Asylum seeker issues tend not to be big news stories, until dramatic **** hits the fan. The truth is that few care a whole lot about their situation.

    The truth is there is a massive amount of money being spent on asylum seekers. In real life, this is as much loving as you get. It would be a real bonus if there was a little gratitude in return or if it was going to more people that really needed it.

    Oddly, you seem to have missed the last few months where there has been massive publicity on the issue of direct provision and asylum seekers.

    I don't recall anything as sustained since dear Pamela Izevbekhai and her groupies almost wiped out all goodwill for asylum seekers in 2011. God knows if a security guard had burst into her room unannounced - I bet she would still be here and very well rewarded by the State for any inconvenience.


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    #198
    Daisy Dasi
    Registered Users Posts: 47 ✭Daisy Dasi


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    Earlier in the thread you brought up a conversation between you and a 4 year old resident.....


    Assuming both parents are in DP,how long have they been in DP,and at what stage in the process are they now ?

    You see,I'm leaning towards this child being used as a lever to further dislodge the blocks from the Asylum System wall,in the hope of a collapse.

    I was originally of the impression that you were a resident of a DP centre.

    However,it now appears you are not,but instead an activist who supports the protesting elements of the DP residents.

    Thus when I read your remarks regarding an individual Security Guard who incurred your wrath for actually doing his job,I feel compelled to review other elements of your posts in this added light.

    You are obviously up to speed on the various rules & regulations surrounding the operation of this DP centre,yet you feel that Security Staff should "Blind Eye" your transgressing of those rules.

    If however,residents were to experience harassment or have their property stolen,would I be correct in thinking you would be equally demanding that security be tightened up ?

    So,what we have is a significant package of complaints,or at least the reissuance of complaints already in the public domain,by a person NOT directly involved,but who deems themselves of sufficient importance to criticise Security Staff for their diligence.

    To some observers it could entirely be possible that you could be seen to be inflaming the situation or otherwise inciting DP residents to protest.

    What is your personal attitude towards those DP residents who choose NOT to participate in such protests?

    You have very clearly and honestly declared your bias in this thread topic,but I also feel that you hold considerable bias against anything the State may implement in regard to Asylum Seekers or Refugee Provision.

    You raise very valid points... I read earlier somewhere online that victims of human trafficking are also placed in these centres and their traffickers or 'pimps' try to gain access to these centres... I guess security has to be vigilent in this respect as trafficked people are a vunerable set of people.

    Also, as in any facility with children, I guess you can't allow any Joe Soap free reign of the place... lenient security in these centres would actually be a scandal.

    If I was on the run from a terrorist group or wanted in my own country I would take comfort in these vigilent security guards.

    There's another factor at play here... I might not want it disclosed to the general public that I am an asylum seeker and don't wish to bump into randomers coming into my centre. I guess the right to anomimity could be important to some residents. Pixie Elf has already said that outsiders are not allowed in the canteen and she got reprimanded for going there... maybe some residents like this level of privacy?


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    #199
    tolerant from cork
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭tolerant from cork


    alastair wrote: »
    You are - you've proven yourself dishonest in this thread.


    That's handy.


    I wasn't worried. It didn't seem a particularly convincing claim.

    Again. Please point me to the post in which I said a lie.
    And yes it is handy. Unauthorised people shouldn't be viewing reports about others.


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    #200
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    walshb wrote: »
    Nobody I know.

    Right so.


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    #201
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,595 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Pixie Elf wrote: »

    i meant that just because your not in bed by 11 doesnt mean you arent coming home........

    It may mean just that. How are security and management meant to run a centre with this mentality?


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    #202
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    alastair wrote: »
    Given that you claim to know the specifics of every asylum seeker's testimony in court over the years, I have to admit doubts about the veracity of your insights.

    Seriously im all for debate but leave the ignorance and pettyness
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #203
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    tolerant from cork wrote: »
    Again. Please point me to the post in which I said a lie.
    And yes it is handy. Unauthorised people shouldn't be viewing reports about others.

    You tried to defame a poster with false aspersions. That's dishonest.

    And so far I'm just seeing unsupported accusations without any evidence. The other poster's claims are at least substantiated by concerns from experts in the field. I know which I place greater weight in.


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    #204
    Daisy Dasi
    Registered Users Posts: 47 ✭Daisy Dasi


    alastair wrote: »
    Sorry. Who was granted asylum for that reason?

    Read Walshb's post above....


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    #205
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    alastair wrote: »
    Sorry. Who was granted asylum for that reason?

    It has to be pointed out that walshb was referring to a Radio Phone-In contribution described here.....
    Originally Posted by Daisy Dasi:
    Another lady who rang Red Fm from the Kinsale Road (Cecilia was the name she used) told a very shocked Neil Prenderville she was fleeing an abusive husband.... Is there something wrong with this picture? The system (as in all systems) is open to abuse... as previously stated I would far prefer tax payers money to go directly to rescuing programme refugees from refugee camps from war zones...

    Whether Red Fm were able to verify "Cecilia's" credentials is debatable,however until proven otherwise we must take the Lady was at face value.


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #206
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    AlekSmart wrote: »
    It has to be pointed out that walshb was referring to a Radio Phone-In contribution described here.....



    Whether Red Fm were able to verify "Cecilia's" credentials is debatable,however until proven otherwise we must take the Lady was at face value.

    And why would someone granted asylum be still resident in a direct provision centre? Taken at face value, of course.


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    #207
    walshb
    Registered Users Posts: 54,595 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    alastair wrote: »
    Why did you post it up then?

    Read it again. Closely. I never said anyone got given asylum because their husband was abusive. You asked a question. I answered it. End of.


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    #208
    Daisy Dasi
    Registered Users Posts: 47 ✭Daisy Dasi


    alastair wrote: »
    Right so.

    *it was a reference to an interview between Neil Prenderville, Red Fm and a resident of the Kinsale Road Ac Centre. Neil asked her her grounds for claiming asylum and she said she was fleeing an abusive husband....


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    #209
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    reprise wrote: »
    Is that your definition of a professionally researched report? Did you actually read it? I must have missed the bit that explained how it was compiled and where the information was obtained. You see anything there yourself?
    You've some concerns about it's authoritativeness?

    reprise wrote: »
    The truth is there is a massive amount of money being spent on asylum seekers. In real life, this is as much loving as you get.
    It must be a cold old world you experience.
    reprise wrote: »
    It would be a real bonus if there was a little gratitude in return or if it was going to more people that really needed it.
    Ah, it's gratitude you crave?
    reprise wrote: »
    Oddly, you seem to have missed the last few months where there has been massive publicity on the issue of direct provision and asylum seekers.
    You must have missed the bit about the **** hitting the fan.


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    #210
    tolerant from cork
    Registered Users Posts: 49 ✭tolerant from cork


    alastair wrote: »
    You tried to defame a poster with false aspersions. That's dishonest.

    And so far I'm just seeing unsupported accusations without any evidence. The other poster's claims are at least substantiated by concerns from experts in the field. I know which I place greater weight in.

    Yes I will givout to anyone and about anyone accusing someone with untrue stories. That is not being dishonest. I didn't accuse anyone. And again you are not an appointed body or organisation to see any evidence containing personal details. Therefore you won't see it as it would be against regulations.


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    #211
    alastair
    Registered Users Posts: 19,307 ✭✭✭✭alastair


    Daisy Dasi wrote: »
    *it was a reference to an interview between Neil Prenderville, Red Fm and a resident of the Kinsale Road Ac Centre. Neil asked her her grounds for claiming asylum and she said she was fleeing an abusive husband....

    So - essentially no-one advocating asylum on the basis of domestic abuse, or any evidence of successful asylum application on that basis. Right so.


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