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LC Off Topic Thread (2015/16)

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    #182
    randylonghorn
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 29,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    DublinArnie wrote: »
    From the Insititute of Education website:

    "The 4th year academic programme helps committed students to establish a solid foundation in key subjects such as Maths and Irish before going on to tackle the fuller syllabus in 5th and 6th Year. For students who need to build their academic confidence prior to entering the Senior Cycle, the programme provides a year to reinforce the basics, developing valuable study skills and helping them to select the appropriate subjects for the Leaving Certificate."

    "Subjects such as Irish, Maths and one foreign language are ‘Requirement Subjects’ for entry into most Irish 3rd level colleges. If a student starts a requirement subject in 4th year, they may wish to consider sitting the Leaving Certificate exam in it at the end of their 5th year, as they will have completed 2 years of a senior cycle at this point."

    They're able to start study at 4th year, and into 5th so they can do the exam at the end of 5th year? That gives them an advantage for 6th year because they have less subjects to worry about.

    http://www.instituteofeducation.ie/4th-year-secondary-school/

    Why are they able to give their students a "head start"?
    Because they're not a school, they don't get public funding, they're a private business which you pay (roughly) €7k a year to attend.
    DublinArnie wrote: »
    ... then I'd be much more fair for the people who go public schools and AREN'T ALLOWED 'ACADEMIC TY'.

    :mad:
    I think you're seeing why schools who stick to the rules and offer a TY which isn't a 3rd LC year in disguise get peeved with those who try to get away with it.

    DES really doesn't have much control over the IoE or suchlike because they don't fund them (obviously). The only consolation I suppose is that most people who go to the IoE don't choose to do 4th year ... at another 7 grand! ... so the numbers involved are tiny relatively speaking.

    Any more than Consonata, I wouldn't be a big fan of the grinds factory model.


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    #183
    DublinArnie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭DublinArnie


    randylonghorn wrote: »
    Because they're not a school, they don't get public funding, they're a private business which you pay (roughly) €7k a year to attend.

    I think you're seeing why schools who stick to the rules and offer a TY which isn't a 3rd LC year in disguise get peeved with those who try to get away with it.

    DES really doesn't have much control over the IoE or suchlike because they don't fund them (obviously). The only consolation I suppose is that most people who go to the IoE don't choose to do 4th year ... at another 7 grand! ... so the numbers involved are tiny relatively speaking.

    Any more than Consonata, I wouldn't be a big fan of the grinds factory model.

    I understand what you mean, but some families are well off to pay the 7K for an awesome TY experience. Even if an odd 100 students do TY and get an advantage with doing some LC exams in 5th year etc, that means these 100 (if they do well to get desired courses) will knock off a 100 people from other Public schools who didn't get an advantage for the course places and maybe knock their grade down a bit with the bell curve.

    It sucks that not much can be done about it, but the DES control the leaving cert. I believe a separate 'competition for places' should be implemented for private funded schools.


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    #184
    FifaPlaya
    Registered Users Posts: 406 ✭✭FifaPlaya


    Consonata wrote: »
    Because they are a privately funded points factory, Who sadly can't teach any skills that dont begin with "Wrote" and end in "Learning". There are more important things than getting a "head start" for the Leaving Cert. You could be doing a Musical, volunteering in your community or abroad, doing any number of projects that develop your personality and study skills. Schools like the institute can't see anything beyond the Leaving Cert.

    Im goin there and i would have to disagree with you on some points

    I dont seem to get why every1 seems to hate the ioe so much?


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    #185
    randylonghorn
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 29,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    DublinArnie wrote: »
    I understand what you mean, but some families are well off to pay the 7K for an awesome TY experience. Even if an odd 100 students do TY and get an advantage with doing some LC exams in 5th year etc, that means these 100 (if they do well to get desired courses) will knock off a 100 people from other Public schools who didn't get an advantage for the course places and maybe knock their grade down a bit with the bell curve.
    Probably a lot fewer than a few years ago! :pac: ... but you're right in principle, and believe me I'm on your side in this argument!
    DublinArnie wrote: »
    It sucks that not much can be done about it, but the DES control the leaving cert. I believe a separate 'competition for places' should be implemented for private funded schools.
    I'm no lawyer, but I suspect any hint of such a move would elicit a barrage of writs and DES facing a case in the High Court on the grounds of discrimination or some such grounds. It certainly sounds like the type of move a good lawyer would be well able to find a way to challenge ... and win.


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    #186
    FifaPlaya
    Registered Users Posts: 406 ✭✭FifaPlaya


    I dont seem to get why every1 hates the ioe?


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    #187
    DublinArnie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭DublinArnie


    FifaPlaya wrote: »
    I dont seem to get why every1 hates the ioe?

    Because it's a PAY-TO-DO-GOOD system. They have the teachers and resources, and once you are willing to put some study and listen to their instructions - you will do good.

    How do you think people who don't have the money and are stuck in a public school with a mediocre reputation for good leaving cert results feel? Not ALL public schools will have awesome teachers, and a great learning environment, but with loads of money, you can basically buy that.

    That's my reason, but the teachers are awesome (from experience.) :).


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    #188
    Consonata
    Registered Users Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭Consonata


    FifaPlaya wrote:
    Im goin there and i would have to disagree with you on some points

    What's your disagreement?


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    #189
    FifaPlaya
    Registered Users Posts: 406 ✭✭FifaPlaya


    DublinArnie wrote: »
    Because it's a PAY-TO-DO-GOOD system. They have the teachers and resources, and once you are willing to put some study and listen to their instructions - you will do good.

    How do you think people who don't have the money and are stuck in a public school with a mediocre reputation for good leaving cert results feel? Not ALL public schools will have awesome teachers, and a great learning environment, but with loads of money, you can basically buy that.

    That's my reason, but the teachers are awesome (from experience.) :).

    Just cuz you pay to get in doesnt mean ur guaranteed ur marks and u must put the effort to get the result. They kick out student who dont perform or are lazy to make space for hard working students.

    I agree that not all public schools are good and not all are bad. I personally was in a horrible school so i would understand. I got into institute (reluctantly) as i was getting misguided at my old school and no spaces in others and my parents by no means are rich. They work overtime just to pay the fees and i only went there xuz there was no spaces in other local schools.


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    #190
    randylonghorn
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 29,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    FifaPlaya wrote: »
    I dont seem to get why every1 hates the ioe?
    You said that already! :p:D

    Hate is too strong a word, I think.

    From my POV ...

    - it's not a school, it's a points factory. It's not about broad education, it's about maximising LC points. Mind you, the points race (and indeed the existence of the IoE and similar) has pushed even public schools in that direction, but the IoE and its ilk are the extreme examples.

    - it's elitist, in that if you can't afford €7,000 a year, you don't go there. That's not to say that everyone that goes there is very rich; many parents scrimp and save to send their children there. But certainly, it's out of the reach of most.

    - it doesn't have to conform to DES or state policy

    - it reinforces the model that everything will be handed to you on a plate (in detailed notes etc.) and provided you work hard and learn everything off, you will do well. And you probably will ... in LC. When you hit third level, and you are being asked to think for yourself, not so much.

    That's just for a start, I'm too tired to get into this in more depth.


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    #191
    Consonata
    Registered Users Posts: 1,298 ✭✭✭Consonata


    DublinArnie wrote:
    I understand what you mean, but some families are well off to pay the 7K for an awesome TY experience.

    Is it really an awesome experience though? you aren't going on any trips or doing any projects. You are just taking a year longer to complete the Leaving Cert course than is needed. There is a lot more important things to learn in life than 2 or 3 filiocht, and vectors and Seamus Heaney literature. I'm not saying they are unimportant. there is a time and a place. But there are things we should do while we're our age, like making a fool of ourselves onstage, debating, going to a foreign country.These develop us in more ways than you can ever do by staring at a textbook for 3 years
    randylonghorn wrote:
    That's just for a start, I'm too tired to get into this in more depth.


    *bro fist*


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    #192
    randylonghorn
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 29,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    Consonata wrote: »
    *bro fist*
    Lol!

    Just to be clear Fifa, we're not ganging up on you.

    I don't have much time for the IoE or similar, but I have no problem with anyone who goes there, and looking at your comments earlier and now re: your previous experience, I can see why you felt the need to change school, certainly. Hopefully you will find the IoE a good choice; for you, maybe it will be! :)


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    #193
    DublinArnie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭DublinArnie


    FifaPlaya wrote: »
    Just cuz you pay to get in doesnt mean ur guaranteed ur marks and u must put the effort to get the result. They kick out student who dont perform or are lazy to make space for hard working students.

    I agree that not all public schools are good and not all are bad. I personally was in a horrible school so i would understand. I got into institute (reluctantly) as i was getting misguided at my old school and no spaces in others and my parents by no means are rich. They work overtime just to pay the fees and i only went there xuz there was no spaces in other local schools.

    Fair enough, but what about the LC studying in 4th year? The DES said only two years Allocated for the leaving cert, yet, the IoE says they will give you a head start and study some subjects in TY.

    That's against the entire purpose of the leaving cert - to examine you on a two year course. NOT THREE!


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    #194
    FifaPlaya
    Registered Users Posts: 406 ✭✭FifaPlaya


    You can learn loads of skills there
    like they have study module every week for study tips
    You need transport to reach there and attend all classes and pay attention which requires concentration effort and maturity
    classes are like lectures so it prepares you for uni
    basically you are picking up educational skills here


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    #195
    DublinArnie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭DublinArnie


    Right, people go to it for their own reasons.I have a best mate who is starting this year anyway, so enough bashing and expressing very hard to swallow opinions about the private school.

    It's a good school, and helps people achieve their dreams - that's all that matters realistically.

    Thanks for the fierce debate, night.


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    #196
    FifaPlaya
    Registered Users Posts: 406 ✭✭FifaPlaya


    DublinArnie wrote: »
    Fair enough, but what about the LC studying in 4th year? The DES said only two years Allocated for the leaving cert, yet, the IoE says they will give you a head start and study some subjects in TY.

    That's against the entire purpose of the leaving cert - to examine you on a two year course. NOT THREE!

    I skipped 4th year so i cant answer that
    DublinArnie wrote: »
    Right, people go to it for their own reasons.I have a best mate who is starting this year anyway, so enough bashing and expressing very hard to swallow opinions about the private school.

    It's a good school, and helps people achieve their dreams - that's all that matters realistically.

    Thanks for the fierce debate, night.

    Night to you too


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    #197
    randylonghorn
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 29,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    DublinArnie wrote: »
    ... yet, the IoE says they will give you a head start and study some subjects in TY.
    Just to be clear, they don't actually claim to offer Transition Year. They offer a 3 year LC option all right, though as I say, I believe the numbers who do 4th year are tiny.


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    #198
    AlanS181824
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭AlanS181824


    I remember so many of you from the Junior Cert and TY forum...

    Hard to believe we're gonna be seniors!

    I'm back on the 26th so not too long now :(

    Currently getting my tablet and eBooks sorted.


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    #199
    FifaPlaya
    Registered Users Posts: 406 ✭✭FifaPlaya


    randylonghorn wrote: »
    Lol!

    Just to be clear Fifa, we're not ganging up on you.

    I don't have much time for the IoE or similar, but I have no problem with anyone who goes there, and looking at your comments earlier and now re: your previous experience, I can see why you felt the need to change school, certainly. Hopefully you will find the IoE a good choice; for you, maybe it will be! :)

    Constructive Criticism is not bad thing and its alright as long as i expressed my opinion


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    #200
    randylonghorn
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 29,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    FifaPlaya wrote: »
    Constructive Criticism is not bad thing and its alright as long as i expressed my opinion
    Absolutely, lad, just being clear that we were criticising the place and the concept behind it, not the students. ;)


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    #201
    FifaPlaya
    Registered Users Posts: 406 ✭✭FifaPlaya


    randylonghorn wrote: »
    Absolutely, lad, just being clear that we were criticising the place and the concept behind it, not the students. ;)

    I understand and also agree with some points all ye's made


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    #202
    FifaPlaya
    Registered Users Posts: 406 ✭✭FifaPlaya


    Good night!


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    #203
    AlanS181824
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,575 ✭✭✭AlanS181824


    FifaPlaya wrote: »
    Good night!

    G'night :)


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    #204
    randylonghorn
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 29,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    G'nite lad. ;)


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    #205
    EoghanIRL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,080 ✭✭✭EoghanIRL


    I skipped Ty even though all my friends did it . I admit I was young doing my lc this year having just turned 17. I got on ok in my leaving cert . This is just for people on the fence or who aren't certain about going straight into 5th year .
    Being a year younger isn't a disadvantage . I hope to be a fully qualified dentist by 22. Skipping Ty turned out to be one of the best decisions of my life . I quickly made new friends too.
    Just my 50 cents .


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    #206
    DarraghFitz98
    Closed Accounts Posts: 68 ✭✭DarraghFitz98


    Hi everyone,

    I'm Darragh from Carlow :)

    Starting 5th year in 9 days :o

    Have to say the fact I'm at this stage in school is more daunting than study but anyway..

    I'm doing
    HL Irish,English,Geography,History,Business,German and Biology.
    OL Maths

    Just need to get off to a good start and I should be fine :)

    Good luck to all of you!


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    #207
    CookieCat97
    Registered Users Posts: 149 ✭✭CookieCat97


    kb98 wrote: »
    Haha yeah same, we literally did nothing all year... :( what subjects are you doing?

    Doing all higher level: English, Irish, Maths, French, Chemistry, Biology, Business. :)
    Unsure whether to take subjects out of school or not because I feel like I've enough on my plate as it is! But if I were to do something outside of school it would either be music (because I've always been good at the piano,I'm planning on doing my grade 8 exam in November) or Ag. Science because my school only offers it as an extra after school class (I think this subject would be ok because my natural strengths are in the science subjects and I live on a farm and both my parents are farmers which would help with the agricultural side as well! :)


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    #208
    pvakelly
    Registered Users Posts: 136 ✭✭pvakelly


    CookieCat97 wrote: »
    Doing all higher level: English, Irish, Maths, French, Chemistry, Biology, Business. :)
    Unsure whether to take subjects out of school or not because I feel like I've enough on my plate as it is! But if I were to do something outside of school it would either be music (because I've always been good at the piano,I'm planning on doing my grade 8 exam in November) or Ag. Science because my school only offers it as an extra after school class (I think this subject would be ok because my natural strengths are in the science subjects and I live on a farm and both my parents are farmers which would help with the agricultural side as well! :)

    Haha, I'm doing the exact same subjects as you, plus I'm definitely taking Ag Science!


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    #209
    DublinArnie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,823 ✭✭✭DublinArnie


    Piano is awesome, wish I knew how to play!

    I'm doing:
    Maths
    English
    Irish
    Geography
    Biology
    Physchem
    Italian

    Hopefully all higher level besides irish, might pick up applied maths down the line.


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    #210
    pvakelly
    Registered Users Posts: 136 ✭✭pvakelly


    Physchem seems quite interesting, you're lucky you can take it. I literally don't know anyone whose school offers it!


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    #211
    EoghanIRL
    Registered Users Posts: 4,080 ✭✭✭EoghanIRL


    pvakelly wrote: »
    Physchem seems quite interesting, you're lucky you can take it. I literally don't know anyone whose school offers it!

    That's because it's only for schools who lack the resources to offer both subjects individually.


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