Vladamir Putin a clear and present danger to peace in Europe.

Elmer Blooker

AbusesToilets wrote: »

You don't consider gas to be a resource?

Here is a story from Bloomberg that references Ukraine's consideration of blocking gas delivery through it's territory.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-11/ukraine-says-sanctions-may-force-eu-to-buy-gas-at-russian-border.html

But not all gas supplies to Europe have to go through Ukraine.
(not sure when the Nord and South streams will be completed?)

AbusesToilets

That is true, this certainly has the potential to shake up the energy market long term. Could be the impetus for the European nations to take more aggressive steps to cut their dependance on goreign gas. Which would be a good thing, irrespective of political stance.

WakeUp

neither of those pipelines have the potential to shake up the energy markets. not sure how anyone could figure that with regard to European dependency on Russian gas. it doesn't make any sense. gas will always be cheaper than lng especially Russian gas. the Nord stream has a capacity of 55 billion cubic meters and the south stream isn't even finished yet. it's been held up for political reasons at the behest of the EU over third party rights. meaning other countries other than Russia can transport gas through the pipeline. the EU also isn't happy as it cuts Ukraine out of the picture. to break European dependency on Russian energy in the short/ medium term will take an effort of monumental proportions. isn't going to happen.

weisses

People in Siberia (separatists) are having a rally but of course this is very much censored by the Kremlin who wants nothing of this unless it happens in another country of course

comongethappy

weisses wrote: »

People in Siberia (separatists) are having a rally but of course this is very much censored by the Kremlin who wants nothing of this unless it happens in another country of course

They aren't having a rally.

Though a rally would have been small it was blocked by the Kremlin.

Elmer Blooker

weisses wrote: »

People in Siberia (separatists) are having a rally but of course this is very much censored by the Kremlin who wants nothing of this unless it happens in another country of course

"separatists" - Russians want to break away from .................. Russia? (which is a federation anyway)
From what I've heard many Siberians are unhappy that the wealth of Siberia is mostly benefiting European Russia which is a justifiable grievance and I wouldn't blame them for being angry.
Are they looking for full independence? Apparently this is nothing new.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siberian_regionalism
Has John McCain been over there?

InTheTrees

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

From what I've heard many Siberians are unhappy that the wealth of Siberia is mostly benefiting European Russia which is a justifiable grievance and I wouldn't blame them for being angry.

Given that putin think its its okay to fcuk with close neighbours, I think the USA should start financing the Siberian Seperatists.

Siberia should be an independent country if that's what they want, right?

:pac:

Busted Flat.

InTheTrees wrote: »

Given that putin think its its okay to fcuk with close neighbours, I think the USA should start financing the Siberian Seperatists.

Siberia should be an independent country if that's what they want, right?

:pac:

I think the US/EU have fúckéd up their quota of countries for many years, they are in repair mode now, and will be in that position for a very long time, due to their illegal actions.

AbusesToilets

Busted Flat. wrote: »

I think the US/EU have fúckéd up their quota of countries for many years, they are in repair mode now, and will be in that position for a very long time, due to their illegal actions.

Nonsense

sparksfly

Busted Flat. wrote: »

I think the US/EU have fúckéd up their quota of countries for many years, they are in repair mode now, and will be in that position for a very long time, due to their illegal actions.

Exactly, especially the US whose rotten influence has corrupted and destabilized and caused more death and misery in more countries than any other nation. Putin would not be in the same ballpark.

AbusesToilets

sparksfly wrote: »

Exactly, especially the US whose rotten influence has corrupted and destabilized and caused more death and misery in more countries than any other nation. Putin would not be in the same ballpark.

More death and misery than any other nation, really? I think you should look up the tables for attributable deaths to heads of state/ national governments.You will find them dominated by Communist leaders/ countries, Mao's china and Stalin's USSR to the forefront.

InTheTrees

sparksfly wrote: »

especially the US whose rotten influence has corrupted and destabilized and caused more death and misery in more countries than any other nation.

o
k
a
y
....

Do you have anything to back that up? Vietnam perhaps? Something anyway? Korea? Supporting dictators in south america? Right wing death squads?

Have you got any detail at all or are you just making it up because you heard something like that once somewhere?

DarkyHughes

Putin is as much danger to Europe as Malta is to the USA.

AbusesToilets

DarkyHughes wrote: »

Putin is as much danger to Europe as Malta is to the USA.

Damn, didn't realise Malta had started invading other countries by sending in covert forces to incite and support insurrectionists.

DarkyHughes

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Damn, didn't realise Malta had started invading other countries by sending in covert forces to incite and support insurrectionists.

How do you think they got their independence from Italy?

AbusesToilets

Swoosh

mulbot

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Damn, didn't realise Malta had started invading other countries by sending in covert forces to incite and support insurrectionists.

No,That would be the US!!!!

Devostator

I've been to Russia, & other places. Have you been to Libya lately, or Iraq? Wanting is one thing; liking what you get is thing different.

The Corinthian

DarkyHughes wrote: »

How do you think they got their independence from Italy?

Maybe you should read a history book? Malta has been under the rule of Greeks, Phoenicians, Romans, Vandals (briefly), Byzantines (Greeks who think they're Roman), Islam, Sicily, Knights of St John, France (briefly) and Britain, but never Italy.

Devostator

The Corinthian wrote: »

Maybe you should read a history book? Malta has been under the rule of Greeks, Phoenicians, Romans, Vandals (briefly), Byzantines (Greeks who think they're Roman), Islam, Sicily, Knights of St John, France (briefly) and Britain, but never Italy.

I didn't know too)))

sparksfly

InTheTrees wrote: »

o
k
a
y
....

Do you have anything to back that up? Vietnam perhaps? Something anyway? Korea? Supporting dictators in south america? Right wing death squads?

Have you got any detail at all or are you just making it up because you heard something like that once somewhere?

Ok, lets pick a few-

Gaddafi
Islam Karimov, (Uzbekistan)
Marcos
Mubarak
POL POT
Manuel Noriega
Saddam
MOHAMED SUHARTO (Indonesia )
Pinochet

All nice guys, friends of the good ol US

Lets examine one just one more in a little more detail for the crack-

Idriss Deby, Chad

According to the US State Department-

“The United States enjoys cordial relations with the Deby government. Chad has proved a valuable partner in the global war on terror”

Amnesty International's 2010 report on Chad.

Civilians and humanitarian workers were killed and abducted; women and girls were victims of rape and other violence; and children were used as soldiers. The authorities failed to take adequate action to protect civilians from attacks by bandits and armed groups. Suspected political opponents were unlawfully arrested, arbitrarily detained and tortured or otherwise ill-treated. Harassment and intimidation of journalists and human rights defenders continued. Demolition of houses and other structures continued throughout 2009, leaving thousands of people homeless.

Only joking, I'm making it all up.
You living under a rock or something?

DarkyHughes

The Corinthian wrote: »

Maybe you should read a history book? Malta has been under the rule of Greeks, Phoenicians, Romans, Vandals (briefly), Byzantines (Greeks who think they're Roman), Islam, Sicily, Knights of St John, France (briefly) and Britain, but never Italy.

I was being sarcastic.

Vandals? like people throwing rocks threw windows & spraying graffiti on walls?

Harold Weiss

sparksfly wrote: »

Ok, lets pick a few-

Gaddafi
Islam Karimov, (Uzbekistan)
Marcos
Mubarak
POL POT
Manuel Noriega
Saddam
MOHAMED SUHARTO (Indonesia )
Pinochet

All nice guys, friends of the good ol US

Lets examine one just one more in a little more detail for the crack-

Idriss Deby, Chad

According to the US State Department-

“The United States enjoys cordial relations with the Deby government. Chad has proved a valuable partner in the global war on terror”

Amnesty International's 2010 report on Chad.

Civilians and humanitarian workers were killed and abducted; women and girls were victims of rape and other violence; and children were used as soldiers. The authorities failed to take adequate action to protect civilians from attacks by bandits and armed groups. Suspected political opponents were unlawfully arrested, arbitrarily detained and tortured or otherwise ill-treated. Harassment and intimidation of journalists and human rights defenders continued. Demolition of houses and other structures continued throughout 2009, leaving thousands of people homeless.

Only joking, I'm making it all up.
You living under a rock or something?

some more unelected regimes US happy to do business with today.

Museveni - Uganda
Khalifa - Bahrain
House of Saud - Saudi Arabia
Al-Bashir - Sudan
Berdimuhamedow - Turkmenistan
Rahmon - Tajikistan
Tan Sang - Vietnam
Hassan - Morocco
Kagame - Rwanda
al Said - Oman

Democracy probably wouldn't make much of a difference to the lives of people in those countries but at least it would look like the people had a choice ...

The Corinthian

DarkyHughes wrote: »

I was being sarcastic.

I believe you...

...and that is sarcasm.

steveblack

Can't you understand? Dropping bombs on Iraq is aid. Driving food into Ukraine is aggression. Try to keep up.

Sam Russell

steveblack wrote: »

Can't you understand? Dropping bombs on Iraq is aid. Driving food into Ukraine is aggression. Try to keep up.

.... and dropping bombs and missiles and firing shells into Gaza and killing thousands of men, women and children and destroying their homes, hospitals, schools and infrastructure is self-defence.

Mind you, they do give a thirty minute warning.

Edit - it was 10 minutes warning they gave.

Devostator

The fact that Ukraine and Russia today are two separate countries is indeed very strange. For most of their history they both belonged to the Rus(sia), and in fact the Kiev Rus was the birth cell of Russia. Only because of foreign greeds and attacks (from Mongols, Tatars, Lithuania, Poland, Austria and later Germany) these territories were separated from each other from time to time over the centuries. And then the habit of the Soviet Union to establish "Soviet Republics" everywhere lead to the existence of a "Ukrainian Socialist Soviet Republic" which then, when the Soviet Union scrambled, suddenly produced a never before existing country - the Ukraine. But to try to separate the Ukraine entirely from Russia would be like to try to separate Prussia from Germany, or New England from the United States - absurd. So it's only natural that Russia and the Ukraine are like two brothers and the western attempt to lure one brother from the other is at least ridiculous...

comongethappy

Devostator wrote: »

The fact that Ukraine and Russia today are two separate countries is indeed very strange. For most of their history they both belonged to the Rus(sia), and in fact the Kiev Rus was the birth cell of Russia. Only because of foreign greeds and attacks (from Mongols, Tatars, Lithuania, Poland, Austria and later Germany) these territories were separated from each other from time to time over the centuries. And then the habit of the Soviet Union to establish "Soviet Republics" everywhere lead to the existence of a "Ukrainian Socialist Soviet Republic" which then, when the Soviet Union scrambled, suddenly produced a never before existing country - the Ukraine. But to try to separate the Ukraine entirely from Russia would be like to try to separate Prussia from Germany, or New England from the United States - absurd. So it's only natural that Russia and the Ukraine are like two brothers and the western attempt to lure one brother from the other is at least ridiculous...

So trade among nations is just a no-go in your opinion?

Doing so is "luring"
(Whatever that means).

Busted Flat.

Putin has proven his point as regards Syria, he has been proved right about the relief convoy into east Ukraine, EU business men are started to kick up about the self inflicted sanctions. Richard Branson and co. are looking for a negotiated settlement in east Ukraine. Does Dick carry a bit of clout in old blighty.

comongethappy

Busted Flat. wrote: »

Putin has proven his point as regards Syria, .

What was the question that he gave the right answer to?

He supplied weapons & vehicles to a customer in need.....
Was Russia's arms sales to Assad anything other than business?