Vladamir Putin a clear and present danger to peace in Europe.

mulbot

AbusesToilets wrote: »

So you're just going to ignore Putin's own words where he explicitly states that Russian special forces were brought in to help the Separatists overthrow the Ukrainian government?

By your logic, you wouldn't consider it an invasion if the US sent in armored columns into Berlin to seize the city because they've had bases there for decades?

show me the link to him saying they were special forces, did he not just get quoted in your link above as saying they were "servicemen"

and yes,that would be an invasion..

Lemming

mulbot wrote: »

go read back the thread,you'll find some answers there(Russia already had troops there for years,go research your history)

Sorry, just to put that shameless LIE (ironic eh?) to bed; the Russians had troop bases in the Crimea with permission from the Ukranian authorities, with restriction that said troops were not to be deployed outside of their bases. The Russians deployed them outside of their bases (i.e. the little green men) all the while denying to the world that they had done so, then only after all of that had that Crimean "referendum" and THEN admitted to having had troops deployed before the referendum.

So yes, it was an invasion, and yes it was an annexation of land.

mulbot

InTheTrees wrote: »

What question?

do you think it's ok(under the guise of free speech) that a media source can knowingly and deliberately print/broadcast lies

InTheTrees

mulbot wrote: »

show me the link to him saying they were special forces, did he not just get quoted in your link above as saying they were "servicemen"

and yes,that would be an invasion..

You've already demonstrated you wont accept any links to news media you dont agree with.

It makes "discussion" difficult.

Why dont you try and answer the question about freedom of the press in Russia?

AbusesToilets

mulbot wrote: »

show me the link to him saying they were special forces, did he not just get quoted in your link above as saying they were "servicemen"

and yes,that would be an invasion..

The first link, for RT, has a tweet, boldly displayed after the top four paragraphs, referring specifically to Russian Special Forces.

InTheTrees

mulbot wrote: »

do you think it's ok(under the guise of free speech) that a media source can knowingly and deliberately print/broadcast lies

Dude. Free speech is free speech.

I've said over and over. YES, I'm absolutel fine with people having the freedom to tell "deliberate lies".

"RT News" is doing all the time, its putins propaganda outlet, and we criticize it but we're not demanding it close down.

"Fox News" lies constantly. Rupert murdochs right wing corporate propaganda arm. But we dont demand its shut down. We get the word out its crap and hope people dont listen to it.

Do you understand a little?

Freedom of Speech means people will tell deliberate lies, and unless it comes under Libel or Slander laws, or is Obscene, its generally okay.

So does that answer your question? Have you at least read the wiki? I mean you cant object to the wiki surely?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech

WakeUp

I don't believe Putin is a clear and present danger to Europe. those dumb ass nazis in Kiev threatening to cut off Russian energy supplies to Europe - and the Americans pressing the sanction war upon Europe and "advising" said dumb ass nazis in Kiev on the other hand..

EU ‘shot itself in foot’ with Russia sanctions - Hungary PM:

“The sanctions policy pursued by the West, that is, ourselves, a necessary consequence of which has been what the Russians are doing, causes more harm to us than to Russia,” Mr Orban said in a radio interview. “In politics, this is called shooting oneself in the foot.”
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/eu-shot-itself-in-foot-with-russia-sanctions-hungary-pm-1.1897971

lol. you don't say. and why has Europe shot itself in the foot I wonder.

"Anti-Putin" Alliance Fraying: Germany, Slovakia, Greece, Czech Republic Urge End To Russian Sanctions:

Last week Germany reported that in the second quarter, its GDP declined by 0.2%, worse than Wall Street consensus. This happened a few shorts days after Italy reported a second consecutive decline in its own GDP, becoming the first Europen country to enter a triple-dip recession. What's worse, Europe's slowdown took place before the brunt of Russian sanctions hit. Surely in the third quarter the GDP of Germany, a nation whose exports accounts for 41% of GDP, will be even worse, with whisper numbers of -1% being thrown casually around, but one thing is certain: Europe is about to enter its third recession since the Lehman collapse just as we forecast at the end of 2013, a "triple-dip" which may become an outright depression unless Draghi injects a few trillion in credit money (which will do nothing but delay the inevitable and make it that much worse once the can can no longer be kicked), and unless normal trade ties with Russia are restored.

Which means one thing: for Europe to resume the status quo, it needs to break away from the "western" alliance and the sanctions imposed upon the Kremlin which solely benefit the populist agenda of Washington, and certainly not Europe".
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-08-16/anti-putin-alliance-fraying-germany-slovenia-greece-czech-republic-urge-end-russian-

all we need now is for those mongos in Kiev, who's stupidity knows no bounds, to turn off the gas. cut them loose before it's too late.

mulbot

AbusesToilets wrote: »

The first link, for RT, has a tweet, boldly displayed after the top four paragraphs, referring specifically to Russian Special Forces.

A tweet from Rt? ok,show me putin saying "special forces"

AbusesToilets

mulbot wrote: »

A tweet from Rt? ok,show me putin saying "special forces"

It's a tweet quoting Putin, talking about special forces. Could you be more obtuse? RT is Putin's mouth piece in and of itself.

mulbot

InTheTrees wrote: »

Dude. Free speech is free speech.

I've said over and over. YES, I'm absolutel fine with people having the freedom to tell "deliberate lies".

"RT News" is doing all the time, its putins propaganda outlet, and we criticize it but we're not demanding it close down.

"Fox News" lies constantly. Rupert murdochs right wing corporate propaganda arm. But we dont demand its shut down. We get the word out its crap and hope people dont listen to it.

Do you understand a little?

Freedom of Speech means people will tell deliberate lies, and unless it comes under Libel or Slander laws, or is Obscene, its generally okay.

So does that answer your question? Have you at least read the wiki? I mean you cant object to the wiki surely?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech

you really are trying your best here to dodge-i didn't ask you whether you think it's ok to have the freedom,i asked you "DO YOU THINK IT'S OK TO DELIBERATELY BROADCAST/PRINT LIES"

Lemming

mulbot wrote: »

you really are trying your best here to dodge-i didn't ask you whether you think it's ok to have the freedom,i asked you "DO YOU THINK IT'S OK TO DELIBERATELY LIE"

Well, you deliberately lied about Russian troops not invading the Crimea. So tell us if it's ok to deliberatey lie? You seem to think it is when it's you doing it.

mulbot

InTheTrees wrote: »

You've already demonstrated you wont accept any links to news media you dont agree with.

It makes "discussion" difficult.

Why dont you try and answer the question about freedom of the press in Russia?

GO BACK A FEW PAGES,you will clearly see i said i DON'T agree with how the press is managed in Russia

mulbot

Lemming wrote: »

Well, you deliberately lied about Russian troops not invading the Crimea. So tell us if it's ok to deliberatey lie? You seem to think it is when it's you doing it.

They never invaded,,how many times will we go over this- Crimea (as a state with it's own constitution) voted to be independent of Russia, THEN Russian troops entered when the referendum to join Russia was beginning

InTheTrees

mulbot wrote: »

"DO YOU THINK IT'S OK TO DELIBERATELY BROADCAST/PRINT LIES"

Finally.

Morally No, Legally Yes.

AbusesToilets

mulbot wrote: »

They never invaded,,how many times will we go over this- Crimea (as a state with it's own constitution) voted to be independent of Russia, THEN Russian troops entered when the referendum to join Russia was beginning

You are wrong, absolutely. Putin has admitted that Russian soldiers (separate from the Naval forces present in Crimea) entered before the referendum to assist the separatists.

Are you saying that Putin is lying about that fact? You are making yourself look very foolish here.

InTheTrees

AbusesToilets wrote: »

You are wrong, absolutely. Putin has admitted that Russian soldiers (separate from the Naval forces present in Crimea) entered before the referendum to assist the separatists.

Are you saying that Putin is lying about that fact? You are making yourself look very foolish here.

They dont believe Putin is capable of lying.

It must be the corrupt western media deliberately lying and they should be shut down and silenced.

AbusesToilets

That's what is so hilarious here, it is RT news reporting. You can't get more pro-Russian than that.

mulbot

AbusesToilets wrote: »

It's a tweet quoting Putin, talking about special forces. Could you be more obtuse? RT is Putin's mouth piece in and of itself.

is that a quote or just a statement?

mulbot

InTheTrees wrote: »

Finally.

Morally No, Legally Yes.

that doesn't even make sense,you can't in any court of law "legally"tell lies

AbusesToilets

mulbot wrote: »

is that a quote or just a statement?

Can you not read it yourself? It's a quote of Putin's.

WakeUp

InTheTrees wrote: »

They dont believe Putin is capable of lying.

It must be the corrupt western media deliberately lying and they should be shut down and silenced.

Of course Putin is capable of lying. what do you think leaders of countries on earth tell the truth to the people all the time? really? Putin doesnt even bother anymore he just lies and smiles and he does it on purpose. So about the Ukrainians, the people who Europe has done all they can to help (wrongly in my opinion) now threatening to turn off Europes gas and oil imports from Russia..how do you feel about that?.. or is this to be ignored aswell akin to the rampaging raping Kiev nazi brigades killing Russians in the east. has the fact those mongos in Kiev have threatend to turn off the gas in Europe gone over peoples heads or what?..

mulbot

AbusesToilets wrote: »

You are wrong, absolutely. Putin has admitted that Russian soldiers (separate from the Naval forces present in Crimea) entered before the referendum to assist the separatists.

Are you saying that Putin is lying about that fact? You are making yourself look very foolish here.

yes as the REFERENDUM was beginning,or even before and after the parliament had voted to become independent- so when russian troops entered,Crimea,was an independent state,therefore no troops entering were invading

mulbot

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Can you not read it yourself? It's a quote of Putin's.

is it? no words in inverted comma's-a very necessary requirement in journalism(look at the quote just above that tweet,you'll see what i mean),a misquote maybe? as he doesn't mention special forces in reference to them at all in any live interview

AbusesToilets

The Ukrainians are stating that they won't allow Russian gas pipelines to traverse their territory. They are using this as a weapon against Russia. It's not surprising and any country in that situation would likely to do the same.

It has the potential hurt Russia economically, in two ways. One, Russian income from gas exports is reduced. Two, it is likely to induce the EU and the US to take further steps to end the conflict, which quite possibly means further sanctions against Russia.

Tough deal for people living in the countries that will be affected by gas shortages, but not as tough as it is for people living in the areas where there is a war going on.

WakeUp

AbusesToilets wrote: »

The Ukrainians are stating that they won't allow Russian gas pipelines to traverse their territory. They are using this as a weapon against Russia. It's not surprising and any country in that situation would likely to do the same.

It has the potential hurt Russia economically, in two ways. One, Russian income from gas exports is reduced. Two, it is likely to induce the EU and the US to take further steps to end the conflict, which quite possibly means further sanctions against Russia.

Tough deal for people living in the countries that will be affected by gas shortages, but not as tough as it is for people living in the areas where there is a war going on.

wait a second, what? where are you getting this from?..what do you mean they wont allow Russian "gas" pipelines to traverse the territory? what pipelines would these be?.. and you reckon further sanctions will end the conflict? lol seriously?...

InTheTrees

mulbot wrote: »

that doesn't even make sense,you can't in any court of law "legally"tell lies

What?? Are you pretending not to understand or just having difficulty?

"morally no" means its immoral, "Legally yes", means if its within the law then yes. Perjury is illegal.

If you'd bothered to even do a shred of research (you refuse to read the wiki dont you?) on the matter you might understand:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech

"Common limitations on speech relate to: libel, slander, obscenity, pornography, sedition, hate speech, classified information, copyright violation, trade secrets, non-disclosure agreements, right to privacy, right to be forgotten, and campaign finance reform."

WakeUp

AbusesToilets wrote: »

The Ukrainians are stating that they won't allow Russian gas pipelines to traverse their territory. They are using this as a weapon against Russia. It's not surprising and any country in that situation would likely to do the same.

It has the potential hurt Russia economically, in two ways. One, Russian income from gas exports is reduced. Two, it is likely to induce the EU and the US to take further steps to end the conflict, which quite possibly means further sanctions against Russia.

Tough deal for people living in the countries that will be affected by gas shortages, but not as tough as it is for people living in the areas where there is a war going on.

Youre either confused or youre deliberately attempting misinform. I think youre confused.

Ukraine Threatens Oil and Gas Cut-Off in Russia Sanctions:

Ukraine threatened to block Russian oil and gas supplies to Europe in new sanctions against Vladimir Putin’s government, which it blames for a separatist uprising that has ravaged the country’s east.

Ukraine, which no longer receives any gas from Russia but acts as a conduit for its neighbor’s European customers, is considering a “complete or partial ban on the transit of all resources” across its territory, Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk told reporters today in Kiev. It may also ban Russian planes from its airspace and cut defense-industry cooperation.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-08/ukraine-says-it-s-tightening-encirclement-of-rebels.html

dirty phuckwit nazis.

AbusesToilets

mulbot wrote: »

is it? no words in inverted comma's-a very necessary requirement in journalism(look at the quote just above that tweet,you'll see what i mean),a misquote maybe? as he doesn't mention special forces in reference to them at all in any live interview

There is not much point continuing to try and discuss this with you if you are going to blatantly ignore the evidence put in front of you.

Here is some quotes of Putin's from the Q&A session.
http://rt.com/news/putin-q&a-ukraine-crimea-220/

Refer to question nine, where he says “Russia did not annex Crimea by force. Russia created conditions – indeed, with the help of special formations and the armed forces, I’ll be honest – for the free expression of will by people living in Crimea and Sevastopol,” This quote specifically differentiates between regular forces and special formations i.e. special forces.

In the video on this page,
http://rt.com/news/crimea-defense-russian-soldiers-108/
he directly admits that the "little green men" as the question calls them, referring to the uniformed, unmarked soldiers that appeared in Crimea, prior to the referendum, were Russian soldiers.

AbusesToilets

WakeUp wrote: »

Youre either confused or youre deliberately attempting misinform. I think youre confused.

Ukraine Threatens Oil and Gas Cut-Off in Russia Sanctions:

Ukraine threatened to block Russian oil and gas supplies to Europe in new sanctions against Vladimir Putin’s government, which it blames for a separatist uprising that has ravaged the country’s east.

Ukraine, which no longer receives any gas from Russia but acts as a conduit for its neighbor’s European customers, is considering a “complete or partial ban on the transit of all resources” across its territory, Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk told reporters today in Kiev. It may also ban Russian planes from its airspace and cut defense-industry cooperation.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-08/ukraine-says-it-s-tightening-encirclement-of-rebels.html

dirty phuckwit nazis.

What part of my previous post conflicts the statement that the Ukraine is blocking Russian gas deliveries? Russia has pipelines which cross Ukrainian territory, which deliver gas to Europe. The Ukrainians are stopping the transit of this gas. That is a tactic in their war with Russia.

I stated all of that in the previous post.

mulbot

InTheTrees wrote: »

What?? Are you pretending not to understand or just having difficulty?

"morally no" means its immoral, "Legally yes", means if its within the law then yes. Perjury is illegal.

If you'd bothered to even do a shred of research (you refuse to read the wiki dont you?) on the matter you might understand:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech

"Common limitations on speech relate to: libel, slander, obscenity, pornography, sedition, hate speech, classified information, copyright violation, trade secrets, non-disclosure agreements, right to privacy, right to be forgotten, and campaign finance reform."

provide an example of where lying in a court of law(knowingly) is legal