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Protestors disrupting World War 1 commemoration at Glasnevin

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    #752
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    marienbad wrote: »
    No Happyman yours is not the real world , you have a extraordinarily selective reading of history - the reality is that in a democratic society when a tiny minority decides that their voice is more important than all the rest combined they must be faced down unless you want continuous and utter chaos,

    Otherwise where would we be ? giving concessions to the drug gangs in Limerick and Dublin and Timothy Macveighs of this world ?

    I have absolutely no doubts that Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness could do a hell of a lot more to rein in the discontent on the nationalist side . I understand why they choose not to do so .

    I think the 'selective' ignoring of the activities of the British establishment and it's army by Irish royalists is more extraordinary tbh.
    They are still sending young men and women to their deaths on foreign fields.
    At least Adams and McG have brought about an end to the activities of the IRA, but lets vilify them. :rolleyes:


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    #753
    Skylinehead
    Registered Users Posts: 11,690 ✭✭✭✭Skylinehead


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    No one has ever tried to glorify WWI, but you have bent over backwards to defend people who are trying to prevent that lost generation being remembered.
    Well to be fair, there's been a lot of "they died to save us" sentiment over the last few months, when in reality they died for effectively no reason at all.


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    #754
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    I think the 'selective' ignoring of the activities of the British establishment and it's army by Irish royalists is more extraordinary tbh.
    They are still sending young men and women to their deaths on foreign fields.
    At least Adams and McG have brought about an end to the activities of the IRA, but lets vilify them. :rolleyes:

    I don't understand your first sentence - 'irish royalists ' ?????

    Where did I vilify Adams and McG. ?


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    #755
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Skylinehead wrote: »
    Well to be fair, there's been a lot of "they died to save us" sentiment over the last few months, when in reality they died for effectively no reason at all.

    Too true!
    The contemporary issues and debate have been obscured by the 'glorious dead' propaganda.
    Here is a republican parody on a Redmond poster which shows that people knew very well what the fight was all about. Saving the 'Empire'
    The original poster http://www.theeasterrising.eu/230WorldWarOne/jpg/JR.jpg

    and the stark parody
    http://www.militaria-archive.com/independence/vb-photo/content/bing/images/large/Vincent_Byrne_Scrapbook_172.jpg

    At the time, the question was also being asked...'would German masters be any worse than British ones'.


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    #756
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    marienbad wrote: »
    I don't understand your first sentence - 'irish royalists ' ?????
    Those that get out with their flags when ever royalty visit these shores and who defend them while ignoring entirely what they stand for.
    Where did I vilify Adams and McG. ?

    Explain your criticism of them then.


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    #757
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Those that get out with their flags when ever royalty visit these shores and who defend them while ignoring entirely what they stand for.



    Explain your criticism of them then.

    What about the American flags for Obama ,Clinton,the S.A flags for Mandela ,
    the list is endless .Or it just the Butchers Apron you have a problem with ?

    I didn't criticise Adams or McGuiness either ?


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    #758
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    marienbad wrote: »
    What about the American flags for Obama ,Clinton,the S.A flags for Mandela ,
    the list is endless .Or it just the Butchers Apron you have a problem with ?

    I have a problem with citizens of a republic fawning over royalty and systems based on privilege. I have a particular problem with people who support a particular monarchy because they hate fellow citizens who have republican politics.
    I would have no problem with somebody waving a flag at Obama (an elected leader) even though I don't agree with Obama's foreign policies or waving flags at Mandela (also an elected leader).
    I didn't criticise Adams or McGuiness either ?
    Stating that they are not doing enough for some nefarious reason (you are not willing to divulge) I would take as a 'criticism'.


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    #759
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    I have a problem with citizens of a republic fawning over royalty and systems based on privilege.

    So you have a problem with people with different political persuasions to you?

    Sounds more like fascism than republicanism.


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    #760
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    So you have a problem with people with different political persuasions to you?

    Sounds more like fascism than republicanism.

    Fawning over another country's monarchy isn't a 'political persuasion' Fred. :rolleyes:


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    #761
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Fawning over another country's monarchy isn't a 'political persuasion' Fred. :rolleyes:

    How is welcoming our neighbours head of state "fawning over monarchy" especially when they reciprocated that for our President?


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    #762
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    I have a problem with citizens of a republic fawning over royalty and systems based on privilege. I have a particular problem with people who support a particular monarchy because they hate fellow citizens who have republican politics.
    I would have no problem with somebody waving a flag at Obama (an elected leader) even though I don't agree with Obama's foreign policies or waving flags at Mandela (also an elected leader).


    Stating that they are not doing enough for some nefarious reason (you are not willing to divulge) I would take as a 'criticism'.

    Respecting the head of state of another country is not 'fawning' . And if fellow democracies choose not to have an elected head of state- which in all cases is a figurehead- why would you object ? The British Royal family is not the only Royal family in democratic nations.

    As for my comments on Adams/McGuinness being nefarious - not a bit of it . You are seeing too many reds under the bed to borrow a phrase.

    You see things too much in black and white my friend.


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    #763
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    How is welcoming our neighbours head of state "fawning over monarchy" especially when they reciprocated that for our President?
    marienbad wrote: »
    Respecting the head of state of another country is not 'fawning' . And if fellow democracies choose not to have an elected head of state- which in all cases is a figurehead- why would you object ? The British Royal family is not the only Royal family in democratic nations.

    As for my comments on Adams/McGuinness being nefarious - not a bit of it . You are seeing too many reds under the bed to borrow a phrase.

    You see things too much in black and white my friend.

    I don't have a problem with 'respecting' a fellow head of state, but to suggest that that was all that went on over the 'visit' is just ridiculous nonsense.
    Please don't treat the readers of these boards as idiots, it's pathetic.


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    #764
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    I don't have a problem with 'respecting' a fellow head of state, but to suggest that that was all that went on over the 'visit' is just ridiculous nonsense.
    Please don't treat the readers of these boards as idiots, it's pathetic.

    What does it matter if people went overboard ? They did so with Obama Clinton Kennedy and even the fcuking non visit of Garth Brooks !

    Why does it bother you so much ? People are entitled to behave as they please as long as they are within the law.

    And you must admit it was historic ?


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    #765
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    marienbad wrote: »
    What does it matter if people went overboard ? They did so with Obama Clinton Kennedy and even the fcuking non visit of Garth Brooks !

    Why does it bother you so much ? People are entitled to behave as they please as long as they are within the law.

    And you must admit it was historic ?

    Why does it bother you that people might object or be critical of it given their belief that relations between our two countries are still unresolved.
    You may labour under the belief that all is resolved and the future is a done deal, but it patently isn't in the eyes of a significant number of Irish citizens.


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    #766
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Why does it bother you that people might object or be critical of it given their belief that relations between our two countries are still unresolved.
    You may labour under the belief that all is resolved and the future is a done deal, but it patently isn't in the eyes of a significant number of Irish citizens.

    It doesn't bother me in the slightest . I have spent a huge part of my life protesting , far be it from me to deny anyone else the right.

    By the way you have a curious habit of telling other posters what they believe and extrapolating things from their posts that just aren't there.


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    #767
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    I don't have a problem with 'respecting' a fellow head of state, but to suggest that that was all that went on over the 'visit' is just ridiculous nonsense.
    Please don't treat the readers of these boards as idiots, it's pathetic.

    And what does that matter? It was a big occassion. It was the first visit to Ireland by a British head of state since independence. Of course lots of people would come out. That doesn't equate to Irish people wanting a monarch which is what your implying.

    You really dont seem to handle the fact that other people dont hold yur views or even that your view is a minority one very well.


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    #768
    Darkglasses
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,526 Mod ✭✭✭✭Darkglasses


    Just wondering, does anyone know who it was that was demonstrating at Glasnevin last Saturday the 23rd? I was at a funeral at the same time and saw a big group there with flags/megaphone etc.


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    #769
    Philo Beddoe
    Registered Users Posts: 560 ✭✭✭Philo Beddoe


    Darkglasses wrote: »
    Just wondering, does anyone know who it was that was demonstrating at Glasnevin last Saturday the 23rd? I was at a funeral at the same time and saw a big group there with flags/megaphone etc.

    I think that was a 'free the weed' demonstration.


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    #770
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    marienbad wrote: »
    It doesn't bother me in the slightest . I have spent a huge part of my life protesting , far be it from me to deny anyone else the right.
    You have said it , 'the people have voted for the GFA, put up and shut up'. Or words to that effect.
    By the way you have a curious habit of telling other posters what they believe and extrapolating things from their posts that just aren't there.

    What did I extrapolate that wasn't there? You have a 'curious habit' of talking in riddles when it would be easier just to spit it out. Like 'knowing the reasons' why Adams and McG are happy with discontent.


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    #771
    Darkglasses
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,526 Mod ✭✭✭✭Darkglasses


    Philo Beddoe wrote: »
    I think that was a 'free the weed' demonstration.

    I don't think so, I saw them over by the Garden of Rememberance shortly afterwards. This crowd looked more like a republican organization.


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    #772
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    pablomakaveli wrote: »
    And what does that matter?

    :rolleyes: You are going to tell us now what should 'matter' to us?


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    #773
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    You have said it , 'the people have voted for the GFA, put up and shut up'. Or words to that effect.



    What did I extrapolate that wasn't there? You have a 'curious habit' of talking in riddles when it would be easier just to spit it out. Like 'knowing the reasons' why Adams and McG are happy with discontent.

    Where did you extrapolate what wasn't there !!! You just did again -twice !


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    #774
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Why does it bother you that people might object or be critical of it given their belief that relations between our two countries are still unresolved.
    You may labour under the belief that all is resolved and the future is a done deal, but it patently isn't in the eyes of a significant number of Irish citizens.

    The Good Friday Agreement resolved all issues. It put the Northern Ireland issue into a framework that will manage the issue for the next 30/40 years or so. When the desire for unity fades, as Northern Ireland matures into a reasoned society and it is realised that ultimately sovereignty will be from Europe, the GFA's importance will also fade.


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    #775
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    marienbad wrote: »
    Where did you extrapolate what wasn't there !!! You just did again -twice !

    Again with the riddles.
    Spit it out.


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    #776
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    :rolleyes: You are going to tell us now what should 'matter' to us?

    Well you've been doing a lot of it yourself.


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    #777
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    Again with the riddles.
    Spit it out.

    Well I never said 'put up or shut ' to anyone re the GFA and that Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness are happy with the discontent.

    You seem to see everything in a very binary way.


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    #778
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    marienbad wrote: »
    Well I never said 'put up or shut ' to anyone re the GFA and that Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness are happy with the discontent.

    You seem to see everything in a very binary way.

    What did you mean by this then?


    marienbad wrote:
    I have absolutely no doubts that Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness could do a hell of a lot more to rein in the discontent on the nationalist side . I understand why they choose not to do so .

    If they 'chose not to do so' the implication is that they are happy with it.

    And you repeatedly said that the GFA was the 'only' game in town when it patently doesn't accommodate everyone. You also said that any criticism of it and it's progress was exaggerated when clearly, on the streets of this country there are still major and deepening problems.


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    #779
    hatz7
    Registered Users Posts: 303 ✭✭hatz7


    Godge wrote: »
    The Good Friday Agreement resolved all issues...When the desire for unity fades,

    I laughed heartily as I read these two nuggets.
    These are the best two lines in the thread, thank you and well done


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    #780
    Chuckieawrlaw
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 46 ✭Chuckieawrlaw


    Republican Sinn Féin were perfectly entitled to protest at Glasnevin, They held a dignified and successful protest,


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    #781
    Dog of Tears
    Closed Accounts Posts: 812 ✭✭✭Dog of Tears


    Chuckieawrlaw wrote: »
    Republican Sinn Féin were perfectly entitled to protest at Glasnevin, They held a dignified and successful protest,

    *yawn.


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