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Protestors disrupting World War 1 commemoration at Glasnevin

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    #632
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    feargale wrote: »
    No. feargale is awaiting a reply to his question.
    well your not going to get it, everyone has moved on from this thread

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #633
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    end of the road wrote: »
    well your not going to get it, everyone has moved on from this thread

    I guess not, even though the question was asked before everyone moved on. Interesting how some move on when that or a similar question is asked.


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    #634
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    feargale wrote: »
    I guess not, even though the question was asked before everyone moved on. Interesting how some move on when that or a similar question is asked.

    its not, the thread came to a natural end thats all

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #635
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    end of the road wrote: »
    its not, the thread came to a natural end thats all

    Nope. Others posted for five days after the question was asked. Anyway you and I have no business arguing forever about it. Tell you what - I believe you post in alot of threads of this kind. Next time Happyman talks about unfinished business you might like to ask him the same question,


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    #636
    dd972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,563 ✭✭✭dd972


    At the end of the day they don't see Michael D Higgins or any other of the dignitaries as legitimate even though one can see the distasteful nature of the heckling.


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    #637
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    feargale wrote: »
    This work, will it be done within the parameters and in the spirit of the Good Friday Agreement?


    What? Who are you asking me to speak on behalf off?
    I am alluding to the south taking responsibility for it's actions or inaction.
    As long as we are locking people out of events like this then we have in some way failed. Michael D understands that but his 'office' does not allow him to officially recognise it.
    All that does is perpetuate the risk that we will spiral into conflict again. The classic 'head in the sand' politics Ireland and Britain indulge in at everybody's expense.


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    #638
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    What? Who are you asking me to speak on behalf off?

    Just speak on behalf of yourself. Do you believe that the unfinished work you refer to should be done only within the parameters of and in the spirit of the Good Friday Agreement?
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    All that does is perpetuate the risk that we will spiral into conflict again. The classic 'head in the sand' politics Ireland and Britain indulge in at everybody's expense.

    Violence ( Correct me if I'm wrong - I think that's what you mean by conflict ) will only occur if people encourage it.


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    #639
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    feargale wrote: »
    Just speak on behalf of yourself. Do you believe that the unfinished work you refer to should be done only within the parameters of and in the spirit of the Good Friday Agreement?
    If you have a way to move things forward rather than let them stagnate I see absolutely no reason to slavishly adhere to an agreement. An agreement that obviously only accommodates some.


    Violence ( Correct me if I'm wrong - I think that's what you mean by conflict ) will only occur if people encourage it.
    The pertinent point is that violence is inevitable in Ireland if you do nothing and accept the status quo and an 'acceptable level' of violence. Which is what those responsible, i.e. the two governments, are doing.


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    #640
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    If you have a way to move things forward rather than let them stagnate I see absolutely no reason to slavishly adhere to an agreement. An agreement that obviously only accommodates some.

    It seems then that you are not prepared to abide by the verdict of the people. The Belfast Agreement was endorsed by an majority of NI Catholics, NI Protestants, NI as a whole, the Republic of Ireland and Ireland as a whole. If that is not a popular endorsement what is?


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    #641
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    feargale wrote: »
    It seems then that you are not prepared to abide by the verdict of the people. The Belfast Agreement was endorsed by an majority of NI Catholics, NI Protestants, NI as a whole, the Republic of Ireland and Ireland as a whole. If that is not a popular endorsement what is?
    no, the republic agreed with it so they could wash their hands of part of our country because they thought they would have more money in their pockets, it didn't work

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #642
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    end of the road wrote: »
    no, the republic agreed with it so they could wash their hands of part of our country because they thought they would have more money in their pockets, it didn't work

    And NI?


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    #643
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    feargale wrote: »
    It seems then that you are not prepared to abide by the verdict of the people. The Belfast Agreement was endorsed by an majority of NI Catholics, NI Protestants, NI as a whole, the Republic of Ireland and Ireland as a whole. If that is not a popular endorsement what is?

    The GFA was not an end point...it was intended to be a process and that is what I agreed to.

    You rest yourself there and ignore the repeated warnings that it is stagnating and that the entire agreement is in danger.
    You couldn't write the idiocy that goes down in this country.


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    #644
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    The GFA was not an end point...it was intended to be a process and that is what I agreed to. [\quote]

    If you voted for the GFA you agreed to this:
    The agreement reached was that Northern Ireland would remain part of the United Kingdom until a majority of the people of Northern Ireland and of the Republic of Ireland wished otherwise. Should that happen, then the British and Irish governments are under "a binding obligation" to implement that choice.
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    You rest yourself there and ignore the repeated warnings that it is stagnating and that the entire agreement is in danger.

    Stagnation and danger are irrelevant to my question. The agreement stands. You have a right to pursue a United Ireland by persuasion. When the time comes I may vote for it, though I dont expect it in my lifetime, provided I feel assured that my vote will not be misrepresented by people of violence.However, and again correct me if I'm wrong, I get the impression that you are prepared to espouse violence to achieve a UI despite the democratically expressed will of the people of Ireland in the GFA. Some of us had to grit our teeth in voting for it, as murderers of all persuasions got off scot free.
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    You couldn't write the idiocy that goes down in this country.

    Agreed. You couldn't. End of thevroad thinks ROI sold out on NI even though both voted the same way.


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    #645
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    feargale wrote: »
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    The GFA was not an end point...it was intended to be a process and that is what I agreed to. [\quote]

    If you voted for the GFA you agreed to this:
    The agreement reached was that Northern Ireland would remain part of the United Kingdom until a majority of the people of Northern Ireland and of the Republic of Ireland wished otherwise. Should that happen, then the British and Irish governments are under "a binding obligation" to implement that choice.


    Stagnation and danger are irrelevant to my question. The agreement stands. You have a right to pursue a United Ireland by persuasion. When the time comes I may vote for it, though I dont expect it in my lifetime, provided I feel assured that my vote will not be misrepresented by people of violence.However, and again correct me if I'm wrong, I get the impression that you are prepared to espouse violence to achieve a UI despite the democratically expressed will of the people of Ireland in the GFA. Some of us had to grit our teeth in voting for it, as murderers of all persuasions got off scot free.



    Agreed. You couldn't. End of thevroad thinks ROI sold out on NI even though both voted the same way.
    the republic of ireland should have no say in NI becoming part of it, it should happen when the time comes no matter what the rupublic wants, NI belongs to ireland and those in the republic who want to stop it from rejoining the republic should have no mechanism to stop it

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #646
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    end of the road wrote: »
    feargale wrote: »
    the republic of ireland should have no say in NI becoming part of it, it should happen when the time comes no matter what the rupublic wants, NI belongs to ireland and those in the republic who want to stop it from rejoining the republic should have no mechanism to stop it

    The Act of Union was given effect in a more democratic manner than you propose here.


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    #647
    Richard
    Registered Users Posts: 2,439 ✭✭✭Richard


    end of the road wrote: »
    [
    the republic of ireland should have no say in NI becoming part of it, it should happen when the time comes no matter what the rupublic wants, NI belongs to ireland and those in the republic who want to stop it from rejoining the republic should have no mechanism to stop it

    Unfortunately for you the constitution would require an amendment so a referendum would be required.


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    #648
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    Richard wrote: »
    Unfortunately for you the constitution would require an amendment so a referendum would be required.

    And thankfully for us.


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    #649
    policarp
    Registered Users Posts: 3,661 ✭✭✭policarp


    Most of us are very fortunate that we have not gone through that period of history.
    We are very Very lucky.
    My grandfather lived through two World Wars.
    We are very Very lucky.


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    #650
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    end of the road wrote: »
    feargale wrote: »
    the republic of ireland should have no say in NI becoming part of it, it should happen when the time comes no matter what the rupublic wants, NI belongs to ireland and those in the republic who want to stop it from rejoining the republic should have no mechanism to stop it

    NI belongs to ireland : That is not what the GFA says. The best you can do to counter the GFA is to say that the people voted wrongly - that is the clear implication of your posts. In other words, you know better than the people, just as General Franco by his actions implied that he knew better than the Spanish people, and likewise so many other enemies of democracy. It's a pity some people don't listen to themselves. Honestly, I've met some American Tea Party supporters, and their arguments were more reasoned than those of the unreconciled "republicans." Aside from the GFA, physical force has been tried more than once in pursuance of a united Ireland and it has failed each time. This small island of a few million will never subdue the one million in the north-east corner who are backed up by a far more powerful state. And anyway EU membership, as long as it lasts, is inconsistent with such a move.
    Now, my computer is giving trouble and I may be without it for some time. So, if you are not getting a response to further posts it doesn't mean that I'm ignoring you.


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    #651
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    feargale wrote: »
    end of the road wrote: »

    NI belongs to ireland : That is not what the GFA says. The best you can do to counter the GFA is to say that the people voted wrongly - that is the clear implication of your posts. In other words, you know better than the people, just as General Franco by his actions implied that he knew better than the Spanish people, and likewise so many other enemies of democracy. It's a pity some people don't listen to themselves. Honestly, I've met some American Tea Party supporters, and their arguments were more reasoned than those of the unreconciled "republicans." Aside from the GFA, physical force has been tried more than once in pursuance of a united Ireland and it has failed each time. This small island of a few million will never subdue the one million in the north-east corner who are backed up by a far more powerful state. And anyway EU membership, as long as it lasts, is inconsistent with such a move.
    Now, my computer is giving trouble and I may be without it for some time. So, if you are not getting a response to further posts it doesn't mean that I'm ignoring you.
    a supposibly far more powerful state who's agents ran like children screaming for their parents in the end because they could and would never beat the IRA

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #652
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    end of the road wrote: »
    feargale wrote: »
    a supposibly far more powerful state who's agents ran like children screaming for their parents in the end because they could and would never beat the IRA

    Half the story again. Neither did the IRA beat them. Stalemate, my friend.


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    #653
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    feargale wrote: »
    end of the road wrote: »

    Half the story again. Neither did the IRA beat them. Stalemate, my friend.
    well the BA got beaten in iraq and other places so that will do

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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    #654
    feargale
    Registered Users Posts: 8,636 ✭✭✭feargale


    end of the road wrote: »
    feargale wrote: »
    a supposibly far more powerful state who's agents ran like children screaming for their parents in the end because they could and would never beat the IRA

    At what cost to the nationalist population over the years?
    Stalemate, incidentally, is being less than generous to the Brits. Say what you will about them, they're tough, something that the Irish have been slow to acknowledge. Nationalists and Unionists had to make painful concessions. Those concessions either way bothered the Brits not at all.
    Good night.


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    #655
    Happyman42
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,066 ✭✭✭✭Happyman42


    feargale wrote: »
    Happyman42 wrote: »
    The GFA was not an end point...it was intended to be a process and that is what I agreed to. [\quote]

    If you voted for the GFA you agreed to this:
    The agreement reached was that Northern Ireland would remain part of the United Kingdom until a majority of the people of Northern Ireland and of the Republic of Ireland wished otherwise. Should that happen, then the British and Irish governments are under "a binding obligation" to implement that choice.


    Stagnation and danger are irrelevant to my question. The agreement stands. You have a right to pursue a United Ireland by persuasion. When the time comes I may vote for it, though I dont expect it in my lifetime, provided I feel assured that my vote will not be misrepresented by people of violence.However, and again correct me if I'm wrong, I get the impression that you are prepared to espouse violence to achieve a UI despite the democratically expressed will of the people of Ireland in the GFA. Some of us had to grit our teeth in voting for it, as murderers of all persuasions got off scot free.



    Agreed. You couldn't. End of thevroad thinks ROI sold out on NI even though both voted the same way.

    So what?
    The agreement only stands among those who voted for it.
    Keep ignoring the reality that there are those on both sides who didn't sign up to it and who have become disillusioned and disaffected because of it.
    That number is growing, not diminishing. As I say, the usual terminal stupidity of British and Irish governments is to ignore these things until they become uncontrollable problems.


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    #656
    VinLieger
    Registered Users Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    end of the road wrote: »
    the republic of ireland should have no say in NI becoming part of it, it should happen when the time comes no matter what the rupublic wants, NI belongs to ireland and those in the republic who want to stop it from rejoining the republic should have no mechanism to stop it

    My god your a ****ing joke.

    NI belongs to the people of NI. If they choose to vote in favour of joining the RoI then its up to us to decide if we want them or not.

    Typical nationalist attitude of "what I want matters more than anything and screw democracy"


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    #657
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    end of the road wrote: »
    a supposibly far more powerful state who's agents ran like children screaming for their parents in the end because they could and would never beat the IRA

    Obviously the BA could have destroyed the PIRA in a cople of days (if it was on a one to one face off), but just like Hamas the PIRA were embedded among (some of) the nationalist community in NI just like Hamas are in Gaza, and look what's happening there. Thankfully the BA never adopted the all out war policies that the Israeli Army have, because if the had, not only would the PIRA have been wiped out, but so too would half the population of NI & probably the Republic too.

    This of course has nothing to do with WWI commemorations at Glasnevin, so I don't know why people have gone down this route.


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    #658
    karma_
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 6,798 ✭✭✭karma_


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Obviously the BA could have destroyed the PIRA in a cople of days (if it was on a one to one face off), but just like Hamas the PIRA were embedded among (some of) the nationalist community in NI just like Hamas are in Gaza, and look what's happening there. Thankfully the BA never adopted the all out war policies that the Israeli Army have, because if the had, not only would the PIRA have been wiped out, but so too would half the population of NI & probably the Republic too.

    This of course has nothing to do with WWI commemorations at Glasnevin, so I don't know why people have gone down this route.

    I'm not going to weigh in on this one but your argument literally makes no sense whatsoever. It would make sense if Hamas were 'wiped out' but that's not the case. Anyway, carry on.


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    #659
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    LordSutch wrote: »
    Obviously the BA could have destroyed the PIRA in a cople of days (if it was on a one to one face off), but just like Hamas the PIRA were embedded among (some of) the nationalist community in NI just like Hamas are in Gaza, and look what's happening there. Thankfully the BA never adopted the all out war policies that the Israeli Army have, because if the had, not only would the PIRA have been wiped out, but so too would half the population of NI & probably the Republic too.
    .

    Odd notion, because nobody has actually wiped out Hamas....you fellows and your anti-republican fantasys


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    #660
    marienbad
    Registered Users Posts: 9,463 ✭✭✭marienbad


    Happyman42 wrote: »
    feargale wrote: »

    So what?
    The agreement only stands among those who voted for it.
    Keep ignoring the reality that there are those on both sides who didn't sign up to it and who have become disillusioned and disaffected because of it.
    That number is growing, not diminishing. As I say, the usual terminal stupidity of British and Irish governments is to ignore these things until they become uncontrollable problems.

    I say if the vote was held again right now it would again have overwhelming support.

    It may not be perfection but it has succeeded beyond all expectations and is used as a template round the world .


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    #661
    end of the road
    Registered Users Posts: 28,997 ✭✭✭✭end of the road


    VinLieger wrote: »
    NI belongs to the people of NI. If they choose to vote in favour of joining the RoI then its up to us to decide if we want them or not.

    NI belongs to the island of ireland and if they want to rejoin the republic then it should happen whether the republic wants them or not.

    ticking a box on a form does not make you of a religion.



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