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Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**
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conditioned games wrote: »The conflicts in Syria and Iraq and the threat Israel are under are not all that different. Are you trying to tell me the 10,000 jihadist fighters that have come across the world to fight for the ISIS would not pose a threat to Israel if they didn’t put measures in place to protect them selves.
I can't predict the future and neither can you. The fact remains they are 2 different conflict, and trying to link the 2 is just a transparent attempt at distraction.conditioned games wrote: »There has been very little media attention on ISIS over the last 6 months as they have captured more and more land.
There was very little media attention on Gaza as well before the most recent conflict there...... When, something changes significantly the media pays attention, like ISIS invading Iraq for instance. So again there has been plenty of coverage of ISIS the last month or so, since they invaded Iraq.conditioned games wrote: »If it was up to you, the rest of these anti-Israel clowns on here or the international community there would be no protest and absolute no protection offered to those under attack by ISIS.
Interesting thing to say, I am sure you can prove this accusation against me and other people posting on here....... Come show me exactly where I said there should be no protest or no protection against those being attacked by ISIS. I expect you to prove the crap your making up.....conditioned games wrote: »And don’t forget these same fighters that have come from around the world to join the terrorists on the ground in Syria would be more than happy to get involved
As said before there is a thread on ISIS already, and as before another transparent attempt to change the subject.conditioned games wrote: »Fair play to the US for sending weapons to the IDF. They need all the help they can get.
So you support the crazies who justify there expanding outside there borders, using an extremist take on there own Religion, and yet another group doing the same, with a different Religion are beyond the pale. Pretty standard hypocrisy imho.conditioned games wrote: »That country is surrounded by the sea on one side and neighbouring countries that want them gone.
The fact that you ignore the fact that has already been pointed out that Israel has a peace deal with both Egypt and Jordan, and a peace offer from the rest of the Arab league, that has been on the table for the past decade, is astounding. One would think that you simply don't read the posts you reply to, and just instead soap box repeating the same thing over and over again, and refused to actually engage with what you are replying to.conditioned games wrote: »Well done to Israel in taking a hard line, those that want them gone including Hamas/Palestine have no intention in been friends. Best thing Israel can do is protect its borders and hit back hard when jihadist/Palestine sends rockets down on them.
What borders would those be exactly? Seeing as you know Israel is expanding outside her borders.......
Also, perhaps Israel shouldn't carry out air strikes on Hamas in the first place, Hamas didn't start firing rockets until Israel killed there commanders during the most recent conflict. Then again, its not like fact matter to people like yourself.conditioned games wrote: »While you don’t want to believe it, Israel faces a real threat which is why it has to self-defend. They have no intention of expanding the border into Gaza as you say
I was talking about the well known expansion East Jerusalem and the West Bank........conditioned games wrote: »but have had to keep the place under siege to stop the heavier more powerful rockets been brought in and to limit the rockets been sent in over the last 10 years.
So you admit that Israel has put the Palestinian under siege, but apparently that is not aggression somehow. The fact is that Hamas for there many, many faults kept the peace, until the IDF killed some of there leaders via air strikes, before that arrested 100s of there members (a lot of whom were released after a previous deal), before that again killed a number of Palestinians in the West Bank (even before the kidnap of the settler teenagers btw), and not to mention the ongoing expansion of settlement in the West Bank.
When, you look at the facts, your claim that Israel is some how engaged in self defense is farcical.conditioned games wrote: »It is Hamas that has been provoking Israel all the time and not as you say they were actively stopping rocket attacks.
Except that they were doing exactly that for the past year. They had squads to stop other groups from launching rockets and everything, until Israel killed Hamas leaders via air strikes.conditioned games wrote: »The reason for Israel for defending itself has not changed all the time. It is rockets and more rockets been sent over by terrorists, what part of this can you not understand.
Israel has been expanding settlements long before Hamas even existed (Hamas was created in the late 80s), and have been abusing the murdering Palestinians for decades at this point.
Again, you seem completely unaware of the occupation of Palestinian land, and don't even acknowledge its existence. Once, saying an occupying power is engaged in self defense utterly absurd.conditioned games wrote: »Some Jews went to present day Israel from 1800 onwards but it was after the Holocaust that the large scale migration began and the creation of the State of Israel.
Yes, so we have finally established that Zionism predates the Holocaust. I fail to see how the Holocaust justifies Zionist ethnic cleansing of Palestinians exactly....
Again, I really don't get how you support Zionist murdering and ethnically cleansing Palestinians.....conditioned games wrote: »It is not nonsense to compare the treatment of the Jews under Nazism to the current threat they face with Hamas/Palestinians. Both Nazi’s and Hamas want them gone and whether you believe it or not the threat Israel currently faces is very real.
It is nonsense, Zionism is a racist ideology that wants rid of the Palestinians, and Zionists have been murdering them for decades at this point. Israel is occupying the Palestinians and stealing there land on a daily basis, to compare the Palestinians to Nazi's is utter nonsense, and the fact that you refuse to acknowledge the occupation at all clearly shows you have no idea what your on about.0 -
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Can you provide the link? On mobile and its difficult to check.
I remember there was a Guardian link posted which had nothing but theories, no facts.
I believe it was this post
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=91877507&postcount=4894
I found it by searching for three
If you search for more than 2000 you get a slightly different result0 -
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If there is no intention of expanding into Gaza would you care to comment on the 1 km and 3Km exclusion zones , in a strip that is 7Km wide , that mean the residents of Gaza have effectively been evicted from 44% of the land area ?conditioned games wrote: »While you don’t want to believe it, Israel faces a real threat which is why it has to self-defend. They have no intention of expanding the border into Gaza as you say but have had to keep the place under siege to stop the heavier more powerful rockets been brought in and to limit the rockets been sent in over the last 10 years.0 -
Again, another troll flattened with facts. They might want to update their Hasbara, they're barely lasting one round anymore!
Watched the Louis Theroux Ulyimate Zionist again today, in the backdrop of the current conflict it really heightens how mad the zionists are!! They're robotic in their answering and refuse to answer the most banal questions. I also got the impression that the settlements are full of Israeli scumbags. From what I gather the Arab houses are forcibly taken off them ( the Zionist claims the Arabs only tell their families that but that they've actually sold the house because it's not appropriate to sell your house to a Jew!) then they move Jewish families in for what appears to be little or no rent!! Scumbaggery behaviour of the highest order. This documentary was set in The West Bank. I find Louis excellent at putting questions out that allow you to read between the lines in their (lack of) response!. Westboro have nothing on these guys!0 -
Padraig Mor wrote: »Incorrect. Hamas had held a ceasefire for over a year before the current fighting. In that time, they deployed "rocket enforcement squads" to stop other groups (Islamic Jihad etc) from launching rockets towards Israel, and were largely successful. Hamas only started launching rockets AFTER Israel attacked them (under the false pretences of Hamas involvement in the murders of the 3 settler Israeli youths) firstly in the West Bank, and then in Gaza.
It's worth noting the backstory as well - the ceasefire that Hamas held until the recent hostilities was part of the agreements which ended the last round of hostilities initiated by Israel in 2012. Israel did not hold up its end of the bargain however, including lifting the illegal siege, access to detained Palestinians etc. The *new* ceasefire agreement for the most part simply obligates Israel to do things it has already agreed to do before, but failed to implement (unlike Hamas, who did what they were meant to).
Unlike all major Israeli politicians - not least Netanyahu - Hamas have said they will settle for a two state solution and recognise Israel if they set their borders at the 1967 boundaries. The claim that they want to "wipe Israel from the map", "drive the Jews into the sea" etc are about 20 years out of date.
You are not telling the truth. In 2013 Hamas fired 52 rockets and 18 mortars into Israel.In August of that year Israel released 104 palestinian prisoners and a further 26 in December as part of the peace process. But did Hamas agree to their side of the agreement. No they didn't. In fact every year for the last 10 years Hamas has been firing rockets into Israel regardless if there is a peace process in place or not.
Hamas has never accepted the state of Israel. One of the leaders of the militant group Hamas, Mahmoud Zahar who mentioned the 1967 borders also went on to say that Hamas would never recognize Israel since such a move would counter the group's aim to "liberate" all of Palestine. So you can take it from their leaders their stated aim is to eliminate the state of Israel. It doesn't get much black or white than that.0 -
I can't predict the future and neither can you. The fact remains they are 2 different conflict, and trying to link the 2 is just a transparent attempt at distraction.
There was very little media attention on Gaza as well before the most recent conflict there...... When, something changes significantly the media pays attention, like ISIS invading Iraq for instance. So again there has been plenty of coverage of ISIS the last month or so, since they invaded Iraq.
Interesting thing to say, I am sure you can prove this accusation against me and other people posting on here....... Come show me exactly where I said there should be no protest or no protection against those being attacked by ISIS. I expect you to prove the crap your making up.....
As said before there is a thread on ISIS already, and as before another transparent attempt to change the subject.
So you support the crazies who justify there expanding outside there borders, using an extremist take on there own Religion, and yet another group doing the same, with a different Religion are beyond the pale. Pretty standard hypocrisy imho.
The fact that you ignore the fact that has already been pointed out that Israel has a peace deal with both Egypt and Jordan, and a peace offer from the rest of the Arab league, that has been on the table for the past decade, is astounding. One would think that you simply don't read the posts you reply to, and just instead soap box repeating the same thing over and over again, and refused to actually engage with what you are replying to.
What borders would those be exactly? Seeing as you know Israel is expanding outside her borders.......
Also, perhaps Israel shouldn't carry out air strikes on Hamas in the first place, Hamas didn't start firing rockets until Israel killed there commanders during the most recent conflict. Then again, its not like fact matter to people like yourself.
I was talking about the well known expansion East Jerusalem and the West Bank........
So you admit that Israel has put the Palestinian under siege, but apparently that is not aggression somehow. The fact is that Hamas for there many, many faults kept the peace, until the IDF killed some of there leaders via air strikes, before that arrested 100s of there members (a lot of whom were released after a previous deal), before that again killed a number of Palestinians in the West Bank (even before the kidnap of the settler teenagers btw), and not to mention the ongoing expansion of settlement in the West Bank.
When, you look at the facts, your claim that Israel is some how engaged in self defense is farcical.
Except that they were doing exactly that for the past year. They had squads to stop other groups from launching rockets and everything, until Israel killed Hamas leaders via air strikes.
Israel has been expanding settlements long before Hamas even existed (Hamas was created in the late 80s), and have been abusing the murdering Palestinians for decades at this point.
Again, you seem completely unaware of the occupation of Palestinian land, and don't even acknowledge its existence. Once, saying an occupying power is engaged in self defense utterly absurd.
Yes, so we have finally established that Zionism predates the Holocaust. I fail to see how the Holocaust justifies Zionist ethnic cleansing of Palestinians exactly....
Again, I really don't get how you support Zionist murdering and ethnically cleansing Palestinians.....
It is nonsense, Zionism is a racist ideology that wants rid of the Palestinians, and Zionists have been murdering them for decades at this point. Israel is occupying the Palestinians and stealing there land on a daily basis, to compare the Palestinians to Nazi's is utter nonsense, and the fact that you refuse to acknowledge the occupation at all clearly shows you have no idea what your on about.
You refuse to accept the threat Israel faces is the same threat Syria and Iraq face's from Jidhadist fighters that are drawn from around the world to fight in a country because they feel some form of connection to fellow sunni muslims. Therefore what you talk is crap as you refuse to achnowledge a threat that exists for Israel from these same fighters. These once had a bigger impact on Israel before it reinforced it's borders to stop the jihadist sucide bombers from killing it's people.
The coverage of the ISIS has been more to do with US involvement. Those been slaughtered over there would be waiting a very long time for any anti Israel clown to show some form of interest. It's perfectly ok for sunni muslims to kill Christians and Druze's but if a well educated democratic country like Israel stands up for it self those in the west feel they have a right to knock them.
Please do tell me where those that marched against ISIS took place. According to the news people couldn't be bothered. I like how you are trying to distance yourself from the ISIS, very good of you and not unexpected of the foolish bridgade on here.
The IDF have every reason to need weapons. They are confronted with countries that want Israel gone and if Israel didn't have a good army there is every chance their neighbouring countries would gang up on them again.
A peace deal can only be as good as the paper is written on. If Israel decided to take a casual approach and not have a well equipped army, what is to stop Egypt, Jordan and the rest of the crew from launching an attack on Israel again.
The borders Israel have are those that have kept the suicide bombers at bay for the last few years. Hamas has always continued to fire rockets at Israel even when Israel met their side of the agreement by releasing prisoners.
Israel has continued to be under attack from rocket fire, when they retaliate how is that not self defense. If you say that Hamas has stopped the rocket attacks then why were 52 rockets and 18 moartars fired into Israel during 2013. You are not talking sense.
It is not nonsense to compare the potential treatment Israelis would receive from Palestines and other Jihadist groups if Israel remained weak to the treatment their previous generations received from the Nazi's. Their previous treatment should remind them what would happen to them if they were to take a soft approach. Overall from reading your post you seem to lack a sense of reality and refuse to achnowledge the threat Israel faces. However you are not the only foolish poster on here which is a pity.
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Does israel recognise the state of Palestine?
Oh wait...erm...ahhhh.....0 -
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chicken foot wrote: »Again, another troll flattened with facts. They might want to update their Hasbara, they're barely lasting one round anymore!
Unlucky chicken. Yer tripe on here is out of touch with reality. Facts some of ye have quoted on here have turned out to be lies. Away with you.0 -
shedweller wrote: »Does israel recognise the state of Palestine?
Oh wait...erm...ahhhh.....
Nope. See Likud's charter.
(Chance of that being mentioned by western media? Fck all).0 -
conditioned games wrote: »...............
Please do tell me where those that marched against ISIS took place. According to the news people couldn't be bothered. I like how you are trying to distance yourself from the ISIS, very good of you and not unexpected of the foolish bridgade on here.
...........................
Israel has been occupying and colonising the West Bank and Arab East Jerusalem for nearly 50 years, yet it faces no sanctions. Russia grabbed the Crimea and within weeks was under sanctions.
Why would people march against ISIS exactly? They're dubbed a terrorist organisation, are being bombed by the US and whoever. They, unlike Israel, won't be in the Eurovision song contest either.0 -
conditioned games wrote: »Unlucky chicken. Yer tripe on here is out of touch with reality. Facts some of ye have quoted on here have turned out to be lies. Away with you.
Irish Praetorian, please post more, I disagree with your stance but you challenge me to look up the history.
Hey conditioned games tell us all about terror tunnels, do they all come up in kindergartens?0 -
The only fact we have from any of your posts is how many time you can fit the word "ISIS" into a thread that has **** all to do with them.conditioned games wrote: »Unlucky chicken. Yer tripe on here is out of touch with reality. Facts some of ye have quoted on here have turned out to be lies. Away with you.
Is "ISIS" the new "TERRORIST"? OMG knee jerk emotional response bomb them quick go team America what's next on Fox?0 -
Just catching up with the thread and I see the Zionist apologists standards & 'analysis', has fallen to embarrassing new lows.0
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They're skipping straight to apologist garbage effort #10 now I see, whataboutery: ISIS are bad... so therefore bombing sleeping children in Palestine is OK. Got it?Corvus Maximus wrote: »Just catching up with the thread and I see the Zionist apologists standards & 'analysis', has fallen to embarrassing new lows.0 -
conditioned games wrote: »You are not telling the truth. In 2013 Hamas fired 52 rockets
They are not rockets they are glorified fireworks.0 -
Corvus Maximus wrote: »Just catching up with the thread and I see the Zionist apologists standards & 'analysis', has fallen to embarrassing new lows.
Well they do tend to be shallow,crass,uninformed,mindless,befuddled and generally senseless.
However, here is a video from Noor Harazeen providing some insight into the trauma facing the children who survived..barely.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSeygAw6XBY0 -
conditioned games wrote: »You refuse to accept the threat Israel faces is the same threat Syria and Iraq face's from Jidhadist fighters.....blah blah blah whataboutery
You refuse to accept that palestine isn't part of Israel ?
Syria and Iraq are sovereign statse with a standing army, a functioning police force and have responsibilities for their own borders. The Jihadist issue is a domestic one, with a load of ex-pats, mercenaries and nutters jumping on planes to weigh into it.
Palestine on the other hand is not a part of Israel, is not recognised by Israel, does not have the resources to maintain a contemporary army, or a realistic police force. It has no control over its own borders and has been effectively blockaded into position for a long time now. By none other than Israel.
Until Israel faces the fact (or is forced to face the fact) that they are at least equally culpable for the desperation and violence of the Palestinian people through their constant squeezing, discrimination, denial and refusal to recognize their rights to self determination and governance. This has been performed in military, political, social and financial forms and when viewed as an overall treatment of a nation of people is nothing short of despicable.
It beggars belief the number of people who serve as shills and apologists for the behavior of the IDF and the Israeli government.0 -
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conditioned games wrote: »You refuse to accept the threat Israel faces is the same threat Syria and Iraq face's from Jidhadist fighters that are drawn from around the world to fight in a country because they feel some form of connection to fellow sunni muslims.
Once again, the conflict in Iraq is a completely different conflict. Also, again a transparent attempt to try and change the topic.conditioned games wrote: »Therefore what you talk is crap as you refuse to achnowledge a threat that exists for Israel from these same fighters. These once had a bigger impact on Israel before it reinforced it's borders to stop the jihadist sucide bombers from killing it's people.
No, its not crap at all. You seem to be claiming you can predict the future, and are speaking of a hypothetical situation, that you know has nothing to do with the actual topic.
I see no reason to engage in someone who is just trying change the subject. Your not the first post to have tried to do this. If you want to talk about ISIS, well there is already a thread on here for that.conditioned games wrote: »The coverage of the ISIS has been more to do with US involvement.
Coverage started, when they grabbed huge chunks of Iraq, and not due to US involvement......conditioned games wrote: »Those been slaughtered over there would be waiting a very long time for any anti Israel clown to show some form of interest. It's perfectly ok for sunni muslims to kill Christians and Druze's but if a well educated democratic country like Israel stands up for it self those in the west feel they have a right to knock them.
No one said it was ok for Sunni Muslims to kill anyone......?
Interesting that you call a country that currently occupying the West Bank, a democracy, especially Israel has 0 intention of even leaving the West Bank, as per settlement expansion. Amazing that you would call that standing up for itself. Its utterly amazing to see such transparent support for murder of Palestinians, oh wait that par for course for supporters of Israel.conditioned games wrote: »Please do tell me where those that marched against ISIS took place.
Please show where I mentioned any kind of marches...???
BTW, the fact remains that ISIS are being bombed and are a proscribed terrorist organization.
Now in the case of Israel, Western nations are actively supporting there murderous outrages and hence protests, seeing as some people aren't happy about there own countries supporting the murder of civilians.conditioned games wrote: »According to the news people couldn't be bothered. I like how you are trying to distance yourself from the ISIS, very good of you and not unexpected of the foolish bridgade on here.
What are you even talking about. You keep trying to claim that other poster are some how supportive of ISIS, and yet can't provide any proof to back up your claims and refuse to do so.
So again, I ask to back up your accusation. Come on now, surely you can do that, right? You aren't just making stuff up? Surely you would never do such a thing.......conditioned games wrote: »The IDF have every reason to need weapons. They are confronted with countries that want Israel gone and if Israel didn't have a good army there is every chance their neighbouring countries would gang up on them again.
Israel is using those weapons to murder civilians, so as long as they keep that up, then they should be receiving weapons.conditioned games wrote: »A peace deal can only be as good as the paper is written on. If Israel decided to take a casual approach and not have a well equipped army, what is to stop Egypt, Jordan and the rest of the crew from launching an attack on Israel again.
What to stop Israel from launching an attack on Egypt and Jordan? After all peace deals are according to you worthless. Sure, the IRA should re arm, after all the good Friday agreement is according to you worthless. Sure, why should we even bother with peace deal, because according to you there apparently worthless.
If people taught the way you think, the entire world would never know a single day of peace.conditioned games wrote: »The borders Israel have are those that have kept the suicide bombers at bay for the last few years. Hamas has always continued to fire rockets at Israel even when Israel met their side of the agreement by releasing prisoners.
Except that what your saying is not true at all, but then again most of what your saying isn't true either.
Hamas had stopped firing rockets at Israel, however other groups do fire rockets at Israel, and Hamas simply can't stop all of them, but the fact of the matter is that they have set up squads to stop them, and the have been largely successful.
As for the release of prisoners, that was just one part of the deal, you left out the part of easing the siege.
Also, Israel rearrested those they released, which you know violated there agreement.....
As for trying to justify Israel settlement expansion, how exactly does placing there own citizens on other peoples land keep them safe? Seems to me that the settlers are being put in harms way. One could even call them Human Shields....conditioned games wrote: »Israel has continued to be under attack from rocket fire, when they retaliate how is that not self defense. If you say that Hamas has stopped the rocket attacks then why were 52 rockets and 18 moartars fired into Israel during 2013. You are not talking sense.
Israel is an occupying the Palestinians and as such there aggressors in the conflict. You see the occupation is ongoing and has been going on for years, and is something you have chosen to ignore, as the existence of the occupation is inconvenient for you.
So, once again, Israel are the occupiers, and as such are not engaged in self defense.
Secondly, Hamas didn't fire those rockets, as other militant groups operate in Gaza, and Hamas actively do have squads to stop such rocket fire, but the simple fact is that like any government, you can't stop all crime.
Much like the IDF can't stop all settlers attacks on Palestinians, that is if they were to actually try and stop settler attacks, they wouldn't be able to stop all of them.conditioned games wrote: »It is not nonsense to compare the potential treatment Israelis would receive from Palestines and other Jihadist groups if Israel remained weak to the treatment their previous generations received from the Nazi's.
It is nonsense, as once again Israel are the occupiers, something that you seem to refuse to acknowledge the existence of. Why is that? Why do you pretend that there is no occupation? Why is it ok for Israel to murder civilians? Why do you support one and condemn the other? Why the blatant hypocrisy?conditioned games wrote: »Their previous treatment should remind them what would happen to them if they were to take a soft approach. Overall from reading your post you seem to lack a sense of reality and refuse to achnowledge the threat Israel faces. However you are not the only foolish poster on here which is a pity.
Now, you resorting to name calling, the last resort of someone who can't come up with a counter argument.
I will note once again you fail to acknowledge the existence of the occupation. Dismiss peace treaties as being worthless. Try to change the subject again and again and again. Make stuff up and claim that is what other posters believe. Then engage in name calling. All the hall marks of someone who can't actually argue there case and has to resort to underhanded tactics to try and desperately smear other posters.
Also, as far as not acknowledging you nonsense claims, I already detailed why you were factually wrong, and the only response you came up with was that peace treaties are apparently worthless. So I guess the various successful peace treaties throughout history never happened in your version of reality.....0 -
Capt'n Midnight wrote: »If there is no intention of expanding into Gaza would you care to comment on the 1 km and 3Km exclusion zones , in a strip that is 7Km wide , that mean the residents of Gaza have effectively been evicted from 44% of the land area ?
The exclusion zones have been created to act as a buffer zone from Hamas rockets and the creation of tunnels into Israel to attack its people. Israel does not want to claim that land and if Palestine wants the exclusion zones to be deactivated then all they have to do is behave and stop attacking its neighbour.0 -
Once again, the conflict in Iraq is a completely different conflict. Also, again a transparent attempt to try and change the topic.
No, its not crap at all. You seem to be claiming you can predict the future, and are speaking of a hypothetical situation, that you know has nothing to do with the actual topic.
I see no reason to engage in someone who is just trying change the subject. Your not the first post to have tried to do this. If you want to talk about ISIS, well there is already a thread on here for that.
Coverage started, when they grabbed huge chunks of Iraq, and not due to US involvement......
No one said it was ok for Sunni Muslims to kill anyone......?
Interesting that you call a country that currently occupying the West Bank, a democracy, especially Israel has 0 intention of even leaving the West Bank, as per settlement expansion. Amazing that you would call that standing up for itself. Its utterly amazing to see such transparent support for murder of Palestinians, oh wait that par for course for supporters of Israel.
Please show where I mentioned any kind of marches...???
BTW, the fact remains that ISIS are being bombed and are a proscribed terrorist organization.
Now in the case of Israel, Western nations are actively supporting there murderous outrages and hence protests, seeing as some people aren't happy about there own countries supporting the murder of civilians.
What are you even talking about. You keep trying to claim that other poster are some how supportive of ISIS, and yet can't provide any proof to back up your claims and refuse to do so.
So again, I ask to back up your accusation. Come on now, surely you can do that, right? You aren't just making stuff up? Surely you would never do such a thing.......
Israel is using those weapons to murder civilians, so as long as they keep that up, then they should be receiving weapons.
What to stop Israel from launching an attack on Egypt and Jordan? After all peace deals are according to you worthless. Sure, the IRA should re arm, after all the good Friday agreement is according to you worthless. Sure, why should we even bother with peace deal, because according to you there apparently worthless.
If people taught the way you think, the entire world would never know a single day of peace.
Except that what your saying is not true at all, but then again most of what your saying isn't true either.
Hamas had stopped firing rockets at Israel, however other groups do fire rockets at Israel, and Hamas simply can't stop all of them, but the fact of the matter is that they have set up squads to stop them, and the have been largely successful.
As for the release of prisoners, that was just one part of the deal, you left out the part of easing the siege.
Also, Israel rearrested those they released, which you know violated there agreement.....
As for trying to justify Israel settlement expansion, how exactly does placing there own citizens on other peoples land keep them safe? Seems to me that the settlers are being put in harms way. One could even call them Human Shields....
Israel is an occupying the Palestinians and as such there aggressors in the conflict. You see the occupation is ongoing and has been going on for years, and is something you have chosen to ignore, as the existence of the occupation is inconvenient for you.
So, once again, Israel are the occupiers, and as such are not engaged in self defense.
Secondly, Hamas didn't fire those rockets, as other militant groups operate in Gaza, and Hamas actively do have squads to stop such rocket fire, but the simple fact is that like any government, you can't stop all crime.
Much like the IDF can't stop all settlers attacks on Palestinians, that is if they were to actually try and stop settler attacks, they wouldn't be able to stop all of them.
It is nonsense, as once again Israel are the occupiers, something that you seem to refuse to acknowledge the existence of. Why is that? Why do you pretend that there is no occupation? Why is it ok for Israel to murder civilians? Why do you support one and condemn the other? Why the blatant hypocrisy?
Now, you resorting to name calling, the last resort of someone who can't come up with a counter argument.
I will note once again you fail to acknowledge the existence of the occupation. Dismiss peace treaties as being worthless. Try to change the subject again and again and again. Make stuff up and claim that is what other posters believe. Then engage in name calling. All the hall marks of someone who can't actually argue there case and has to resort to underhanded tactics to try and desperately smear other posters.
Also, as far as not acknowledging you nonsense claims, I already detailed why you were factually wrong, and the only response you came up with was that peace treaties are apparently worthless. So I guess the various successful peace treaties throughout history never happened in your version of reality.....
Again you continue to make stuff up that is not true and offer a poor level of knowledge. Still toy try to distance youself from the threat of Jihadist fighters to the state of Israel. You can clearly see pictures and videos of their work through the ISIS movement in Syria and Iraq but try to hide away from the fact these jihadist fighters would also attack Israel if they didn't secure their borders.
This is not a hypothetical situation. Before Israel built the walls to protect themselves there were many jihadist fighters similar to the ones in Syria now, that came to their country to attack their people. Are you really trying to tell me that is a hypothetical situation and would not happen again if Israel relaxed its borders. Come on now get real.
No, coverage of ISIS in the western media did not begin when they started to grab chunks of land as you claim. It was when the US started to take an interest that the some cameras that carried stories of the terrorists in Palestine began to show some coverage of the situation in Iraq. Up until then people like you and the international community were happy to turn a blind eye.
Whether you want to believe it or not Israel is a democratically elected government. Their people go to the polls and vote for who they want. Those that gain a majority form a government. What part of this do you not believe.
Why shouldn't they stand up for themselves. They come under attack, should they roll over. Yes some Palestines die in retaliation, that is part of the course when Hamas launchs rockets from densely populated areas.
Why shouldn't western nations support Israel. They are a democratic country with a well educated people that try to defend themselves against some very bad terrorist organisations around them.
Yes the IDF should receive as much help as possible and especially in the form of weapons. Civilians do get killed when Israel has to protect itself, while it is a big downside in retaliations, that is the harsh reality when having to stop rockets been fired on its people. And I know how much you would rather see Israeli civilians been killed instead.
You talk more nonsence saying Israel wants to attack Egypt and Jordan. They are a small country that has to stand up for itself. Do you really believe Israel wants to attack Egypt or is that more garbage from you.
I never said all peace deals are worthless. However a peace deal while good if it holds, there is no guarantee that it will always exist. Didn't Stalin and Hitler sign a secret peace deal not to invade each other and to split Poland in two. Did that peace deal hold up? Do you think Israel should maintain a weak army and keep it's fingers crossed that their neighbouring countries keep their side of the peace deal and not attack Israel again.
Hamas were not successful in stopping rockets and meeting their side of the peace treaty. Rockets and moraters continued throughout 2013. The prisoners that were rearrested were those that went straight back to engaging in terrorist activities. After leting them go should Israel have left those that were planning future attacks against them do what they like. No they shouldn't. Those that were freed did not all behave and that is why some were justifyably rearrested.
The treatment the jews faced from Nazi's is a very real treat they face in Israel from jihadist groups. This is not nonsense. Nazi's wanted them exterminated and Hamas as part of their charter wants the state of Israel to be replaced with an islamic state. This is a similar threat to their future survival that you do not want to acknowledge.
Overall you claim facts that are not true, you deny Israel faces a real threat to its future survival and you think if Israel trys to be weak and take a soft approach that all will be ok for them. Your knowledge is poor but I will look forward to correcting your lies.0 -
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Pretty disturbing video of a man being buried alive circulating.
Please note. It's not pleasent viewing
this is actually from Syria its clear from their accents specially in the end when the man was trying to say "there is no god but allah" they kept telling him to say "there is no god but Bashar"0 -
snip
Pretty disturbing video of a man being buried alive circulating.
Please note. It's not pleasent viewing
This is the type of people Israel have to deal with at their front door. However we in the west will turn a blind eye as per usual and instead attack Israel for wanting to defend itself.0 -
Mod
Unapproved the vid for now, gimmie a few minutes on it
Cheers
-KERSPLAT!
OK vid deleted, see charter
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=63137261&postcount=150 -
conditioned games wrote: »This is the type of people Israel have to deal with at their front door. However we in the west will turn a blind eye as per usual and instead attack Israel for wanting to defend itself.
Defend itself from bottle rockets? Thats what the Iron Dome is for, dropping Jericho missiles from fighter jets is not defending yourself, its excessive force.0 -
conditioned games wrote: »Again you continue(................)but I will look forward to correcting your lies.
I think it's great that in your part of the multi-verse Israel isn't colonising the West Bank, Golan and Arab East Jerusalem.0 -
conditioned games wrote: »Again you continue to make stuff up that is not true and offer a poor level of knowledge.
I have? Interesting, care to quote exactly what I made up then? I see that you keep making such claims and are then completely unable to you know prove them.conditioned games wrote: »Still toy try to distance youself from the threat of Jihadist fighters to the state of Israel. You can clearly see pictures and videos of their work through the ISIS movement in Syria and Iraq but try to hide away from the fact these jihadist fighters would also attack Israel if they didn't secure their borders.
Seriously, WTF are you on about? Distance myself? Seriously, what the hell are you saying? Seriously repeating the same thing over and over again, will not suddenly make it correct.conditioned games wrote: »This is not a hypothetical situation. Before Israel built the walls to protect themselves there were many jihadist fighters similar to the ones in Syria now, that came to their country to attack their people. Are you really trying to tell me that is a hypothetical situation and would not happen again if Israel relaxed its borders. Come on now get real.
Get real? The only one in need of a reality check is you. Israel btw built its wall on stolen land, and btw there are also settlement outside there wall. Also, 1000s of Palestinians sneak past the wall on a daily basis to work in Israel.
As for you now infamous argument of desperately trying to link ISIS to these events, as to some how retroactively justify Israel blatant theft of Palestinian land is astonishing.conditioned games wrote: »No, coverage of ISIS in the western media did not begin when they started to grab chunks of land as you claim.
Except that the most recent of coverage of them began when they did that:
https://www.google.ie/search?q=ISIS+take+Iraqi+towns&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb&gws_rd=cr&ei=JfQAVL-uFoXN7Ab3uYCwCQ#channel=fflb&q=ISIS+take+Iraq+towns&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&spell=1
Plenty of stories that predate US air strikes....... Not that you will acknowledge there existence of anything, as facts are something you don't like.conditioned games wrote: »It was when the US started to take an interest that the some cameras that carried stories of the terrorists in Palestine began to show some coverage of the situation in Iraq. Up until then people like you and the international community were happy to turn a blind eye.
People like me turned a blind eye. Oh wow, that some utter bull**** there, but then that is to be expected, again plenty of media coverage predating US air strikes and what not. Your claim is untrue, and why you insist on this is beyond odd.
BTW, I note that you haven't once posted in any thread related to ISIS (btw I have posted in regards to ISIS on threads about them in the past, so your claim about turning a blind eye is complete bull****, like everything you post).
Now you on the other hand, have only posted about ISIS to a Israel/Palestine thread. Now, that is interesting isn't it? It seems to me your concern for ISIS, only exists in so far, as you can use it to distract from the actual topic if this thread, and in fact your are using the suffering of people in Iraq to score cheap shots on a unrelated topic.
Then, you have the gall to claim other people are turning a blind eye, which is just the latest in a long list of accusation that you make and can't back up, as there untrue.
Why is that you are using the suffering of people in Iraq like this? Its a disgusting thing to do imho, and quite frankly just make you look bad. It far worse then the false accusation of turning a blind eye you make against others imho, exploiting people suffering like that.conditioned games wrote: »Whether you want to believe it or not Israel is a democratically elected government. Their people go to the polls and vote for who they want. Those that gain a majority form a government. What part of this do you not believe.
What part of the occupation of Palestinian land do you not understand exactly? Do you think there is no occupation? Why do you not acknowledge its existence? Why do you not actually respond to what is actually said?
How exactly is Israel a democracy, when they rule of millions of Palestinians in East Jerusalem and the West Bank, and keeping millions in Gaza under an inhuman siege that target every Man, Woman and Child in Gaza? Come care to explain how its democratic, that an Israeli settlers is judged under one set of laws, and Palestinians under a completely separate racist system? What about the Jewish only roads?conditioned games wrote: »Why shouldn't they stand up for themselves. They come under attack, should they roll over. Yes some Palestines die in retaliation, that is part of the course when Hamas launchs rockets from densely populated areas.
Ah, some Palestinians die, so nice of you wave away 100s of dead children. Another disgusting statement making excuse for the murder of civilians. The IDF deliberately target civilians. Plenty of examples of that have been provided in the thread so far.
BTW, Hamas started firing rockets, after Israel launched air strikes against them. I know facts are something you like to ignore, but that doesn't make them go away.conditioned games wrote: »Why shouldn't western nations support Israel. They are a democratic country with a well educated people that try to defend themselves against some very bad terrorist organisations around them.
No one should support the murder of civilians, which is what Israel is doing, so that they can steal Palestinian land, something you refuse to acknowledge.conditioned games wrote: »Yes the IDF should receive as much help as possible and especially in the form of weapons. Civilians do get killed when Israel has to protect itself, while it is a big downside in retaliations, that is the harsh reality when having to stop rockets been fired on its people. And I know how much you would rather see Israeli civilians been killed instead.
Dead Palestinians are down side. Again, disgusting statement. Your posts get worse and worse, with the constant down playing of civilians being murdered by the IDF. IMHO, making excuses and denial is tantamount to support for murdering civilians. Then again, support for IDF war crimes is all to common form those who support Zionism.
Again, the harsh reality is that Israel as an occupying power, expanding outside there borders broke the truce (they never actually adhered to the conditions to being with) when they started arresting members of Hamas, that were released as part of the agreement, then murdered Palestinians (long before the kidnapping of the settler teenagers as well), then launched air strikes on Gaza, and the Hamas and other Palestinian militants launched rockets.
Again, I know you hate facts, and won't acknowledge, them and will just post a long spiel stating that you right, because you say so.conditioned games wrote: »You talk more nonsence saying Israel wants to attack Egypt and Jordan. They are a small country that has to stand up for itself. Do you really believe Israel wants to attack Egypt or is that more garbage from you.
Oh dear, I was taking the piss out of you own claim... Dear, dear, someone doesn't quite understand sarcasm.conditioned games wrote: »I never said all peace deals are worthless.
ROFL, game me a good laugh there:conditioned games wrote: »A peace deal can only be as good as the paper is written on. If Israel decided to take a casual approach and not have a well equipped army, what is to stop Egypt, Jordan and the rest of the crew from launching an attack on Israel again.
"only as good as the paper is written on" (your exact words), seems pretty clear what you think of the peace treaty.conditioned games wrote: »However a peace deal while good if it holds, there is no guarantee that it will always exist.
Wait a second, then its just as likely that Israel will attack Jordan or Egypt (btw I am not being serious, as you seem to have trouble with sarcasm) then.conditioned games wrote: »Didn't Stalin and Hitler sign a secret peace deal not to invade each other and to split Poland in two. Did that peace deal hold up?
Ah yes, using the 2 most blood thirsty mass murders in history as an example......... Are you being serious? Stalin and Hitler were blood thirsty mad men, of course a peace treaty with those crazies was worthless. FFS, your example is utter tripe.
As it stands the treaty between Israel and Jordan, Egypt and Israel have both lasted far longer then the one you mention.conditioned games wrote: »Do you think Israel should maintain a weak army and keep it's fingers crossed that their neighbouring countries keep their side of the peace deal and not attack Israel again.
No, I think you made a claim about Israel being surrounded by people wanting to destroy them, when that is false claim, due to the existence of peace treaties, and an offer of a complete peace with the entire arab league (also backed by every single Muslim majority country as well), that Israel has ignored for over a decade at this point.
Instead Israeli government of the period, chose to continue there greater Israel project, by stealing more land in East Jerusalem and the West Bank instead, of you negotiating in good faith.conditioned games wrote: »Hamas were not successful in stopping rockets and meeting their side of the peace treaty. Rockets and moraters continued throughout 2013.
They stopped the vast majority of them. Its impossible to stop a 100% of crime, and there will always be nutters who will try and cause conflict.
BTW, Israel never eased the whole siege, so there ones to talk in regards to holding to a truce, and let not forget the whole settlement expansion thing.conditioned games wrote: »The prisoners that were rearrested were those that went straight back to engaging in terrorist activities. After leting them go should Israel have left those that were planning future attacks against them do what they like. No they shouldn't. Those that were freed did not all behave and that is why some were justifyably rearrested.
What your claiming here is completely untrue, and there is 0 evidence to back up this claim of yours, just like everything else you claim, now that I think of it.
Why is that you make things up?conditioned games wrote: »The treatment the jews faced from Nazi's is a very real treat they face in Israel from jihadist groups.
Palestinians are Nazi's, yeah that just pathetic thing to claim about an occupied people.conditioned games wrote: »This is not nonsense.
Oh yes it is nonsense of the highest order, seeing as you ignore the occupation. Why do you ignore it?conditioned games wrote: »Nazi's wanted them exterminated and Hamas as part of their charter wants the state of Israel to be replaced with an islamic state. This is a similar threat to their future survival that you do not want to acknowledge.
Zionists are doing the same to Palestinians and have been doing so for decade before Hamas even existed. Zionist wipe the Palestinian mandate of the map. Made Palestinians stateless. Attempted to destroy there nation. Literally drove Palestinians into the sea.conditioned games wrote: »Overall you claim facts that are not true,
No, everything I say is true, and I note you have yet to acknowledge the existence of the occupation.conditioned games wrote: »you deny Israel faces a real threat to its future survival and you think if Israel trys to be weak and take a soft approach that all will be ok for them. Your knowledge is poor but I will look forward to correcting your lies.
What you have corrected exactly? Oh wait nothing. You just the same disproven garbage over and over again.
As for lies, the only lies are your. You have made claims about other posters and myself, and I have asked you back them up, and you have failed to do so numerous times
As for the threat from ISIS, that is completely hypothetical, as there currently bogged down in Iraq, secondly the other threat is from Egypt and Jordan breaking peace treaties, again completely hypothetical, and just as valid as me saying Israel could attack them (again sarcasm as you have trouble with that). Also, apparently Hamas are Nazi's as well, and yes there horrible charter does want to destroy Israel, but seeing as Israel has already visited such destruction on Palestine already, and are the ones occupying the, and the fact that Hamas only came in existence of decades of occupation, and the fact that a peace offer that is over a decade old that has been ignored by Israel for over a decade is still on offer, all show that your claims aren't true.
Still, your response is that well someone could break a peace deal, and apparently that is not hypothetical........ TBH, I don't think you understand that word, or understand reality, as you have yet to acknowledge the occupation? Why is that exactly?
Also, you keep making claims in regards to me, and expect you prove them, otherwise the only conclusion that a reasonable person can come to, is that you are deliberately telling lies, to smear me.0 -
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AngryHippie wrote: »It beggars belief the number of people who serve as shills and apologists for the behavior of the IDF and the Israeli government.
No need for anyone to defend the IDF.
Most moral army in the world.
Everyone knows that.
http://www.icahd.org/faq0
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