Israel - Palestine Conflict. **Mod note in OP - updated 1st August**

Irish Praetorian

user2011 wrote: »

The state of Israel has had a court ruling against them and a retired army general Amos Yaron of war crimes and genocide in a war crimes tribunal in Malaysia.



http://www.globalresearch.ca/state-of-israel-charged-for-crime-of-genocide-and-war-crimes-kuala-lumpur-tribunal/5346375

Lovely people them zionists are, everyone should protect them at all costs :rolleyes:

So country that doesn't recognise Israel exists, sets up organization to try people for war crimes with about as much international standing as a Dennis the Menace fan-club, how is this relevant to anything?

I mean presumably if Israel sets up its own kangaroo court to find Mahmoud Abbas guilty of being 'a big doo-doo head' you'll be as enthusiastic?

conditioned games

woodoo wrote: »

They are not rockets they are glorified fireworks.

Are you taking the piss. These rockets fired into Irsael have killed people. The latest death from them was a 4 year old Israeli boy called Daniel Tregerman that was killed last week by a rocket fired from the Palestinians. He is now in the ground and you are trying to tell me the Palestinians are sending up fireworks. The lies and rubbish from posters on here is unreal.

conditioned games

wes wrote: »

I have? Interesting, care to quote exactly what I made up then? I see that you keep making such claims and are then completely unable to you know prove them.



Seriously, WTF are you on about? Distance myself? Seriously, what the hell are you saying? Seriously repeating the same thing over and over again, will not suddenly make it correct.



Get real? The only one in need of a reality check is you. Israel btw built its wall on stolen land, and btw there are also settlement outside there wall. Also, 1000s of Palestinians sneak past the wall on a daily basis to work in Israel.

As for you now infamous argument of desperately trying to link ISIS to these events, as to some how retroactively justify Israel blatant theft of Palestinian land is astonishing.



Except that the most recent of coverage of them began when they did that:

https://www.google.ie/search?q=ISIS+take+Iraqi+towns&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb&gws_rd=cr&ei=JfQAVL-uFoXN7Ab3uYCwCQ#channel=fflb&q=ISIS+take+Iraq+towns&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&spell=1

Plenty of stories that predate US air strikes....... Not that you will acknowledge there existence of anything, as facts are something you don't like.



People like me turned a blind eye. Oh wow, that some utter bull**** there, but then that is to be expected, again plenty of media coverage predating US air strikes and what not. Your claim is untrue, and why you insist on this is beyond odd.

BTW, I note that you haven't once posted in any thread related to ISIS (btw I have posted in regards to ISIS on threads about them in the past, so your claim about turning a blind eye is complete bull****, like everything you post).

Now you on the other hand, have only posted about ISIS to a Israel/Palestine thread. Now, that is interesting isn't it? It seems to me your concern for ISIS, only exists in so far, as you can use it to distract from the actual topic if this thread, and in fact your are using the suffering of people in Iraq to score cheap shots on a unrelated topic.

Then, you have the gall to claim other people are turning a blind eye, which is just the latest in a long list of accusation that you make and can't back up, as there untrue.

Why is that you are using the suffering of people in Iraq like this? Its a disgusting thing to do imho, and quite frankly just make you look bad. It far worse then the false accusation of turning a blind eye you make against others imho, exploiting people suffering like that.



What part of the occupation of Palestinian land do you not understand exactly? Do you think there is no occupation? Why do you not acknowledge its existence? Why do you not actually respond to what is actually said?

How exactly is Israel a democracy, when they rule of millions of Palestinians in East Jerusalem and the West Bank, and keeping millions in Gaza under an inhuman siege that target every Man, Woman and Child in Gaza? Come care to explain how its democratic, that an Israeli settlers is judged under one set of laws, and Palestinians under a completely separate racist system? What about the Jewish only roads?




Ah, some Palestinians die, so nice of you wave away 100s of dead children. Another disgusting statement making excuse for the murder of civilians. The IDF deliberately target civilians. Plenty of examples of that have been provided in the thread so far.

BTW, Hamas started firing rockets, after Israel launched air strikes against them. I know facts are something you like to ignore, but that doesn't make them go away.



No one should support the murder of civilians, which is what Israel is doing, so that they can steal Palestinian land, something you refuse to acknowledge.



Dead Palestinians are down side. Again, disgusting statement. Your posts get worse and worse, with the constant down playing of civilians being murdered by the IDF. IMHO, making excuses and denial is tantamount to support for murdering civilians. Then again, support for IDF war crimes is all to common form those who support Zionism.

Again, the harsh reality is that Israel as an occupying power, expanding outside there borders broke the truce (they never actually adhered to the conditions to being with) when they started arresting members of Hamas, that were released as part of the agreement, then murdered Palestinians (long before the kidnapping of the settler teenagers as well), then launched air strikes on Gaza, and the Hamas and other Palestinian militants launched rockets.

Again, I know you hate facts, and won't acknowledge, them and will just post a long spiel stating that you right, because you say so.



Oh dear, I was taking the piss out of you own claim... Dear, dear, someone doesn't quite understand sarcasm.



ROFL, game me a good laugh there:


"only as good as the paper is written on" (your exact words), seems pretty clear what you think of the peace treaty.



Wait a second, then its just as likely that Israel will attack Jordan or Egypt (btw I am not being serious, as you seem to have trouble with sarcasm) then.



Ah yes, using the 2 most blood thirsty mass murders in history as an example......... Are you being serious? Stalin and Hitler were blood thirsty mad men, of course a peace treaty with those crazies was worthless. FFS, your example is utter tripe.

As it stands the treaty between Israel and Jordan, Egypt and Israel have both lasted far longer then the one you mention.



No, I think you made a claim about Israel being surrounded by people wanting to destroy them, when that is false claim, due to the existence of peace treaties, and an offer of a complete peace with the entire arab league (also backed by every single Muslim majority country as well), that Israel has ignored for over a decade at this point.

Instead Israeli government of the period, chose to continue there greater Israel project, by stealing more land in East Jerusalem and the West Bank instead, of you negotiating in good faith.



They stopped the vast majority of them. Its impossible to stop a 100% of crime, and there will always be nutters who will try and cause conflict.

BTW, Israel never eased the whole siege, so there ones to talk in regards to holding to a truce, and let not forget the whole settlement expansion thing.



What your claiming here is completely untrue, and there is 0 evidence to back up this claim of yours, just like everything else you claim, now that I think of it.

Why is that you make things up?



Palestinians are Nazi's, yeah that just pathetic thing to claim about an occupied people.



Oh yes it is nonsense of the highest order, seeing as you ignore the occupation. Why do you ignore it?



Zionists are doing the same to Palestinians and have been doing so for decade before Hamas even existed. Zionist wipe the Palestinian mandate of the map. Made Palestinians stateless. Attempted to destroy there nation. Literally drove Palestinians into the sea.



No, everything I say is true, and I note you have yet to acknowledge the existence of the occupation.



What you have corrected exactly? Oh wait nothing. You just the same disproven garbage over and over again.

As for lies, the only lies are your. You have made claims about other posters and myself, and I have asked you back them up, and you have failed to do so numerous times

As for the threat from ISIS, that is completely hypothetical, as there currently bogged down in Iraq, secondly the other threat is from Egypt and Jordan breaking peace treaties, again completely hypothetical, and just as valid as me saying Israel could attack them (again sarcasm as you have trouble with that). Also, apparently Hamas are Nazi's as well, and yes there horrible charter does want to destroy Israel, but seeing as Israel has already visited such destruction on Palestine already, and are the ones occupying the, and the fact that Hamas only came in existence of decades of occupation, and the fact that a peace offer that is over a decade old that has been ignored by Israel for over a decade is still on offer, all show that your claims aren't true.

Still, your response is that well someone could break a peace deal, and apparently that is not hypothetical........ TBH, I don't think you understand that word, or understand reality, as you have yet to acknowledge the occupation? Why is that exactly?

Also, you keep making claims in regards to me, and expect you prove them, otherwise the only conclusion that a reasonable person can come to, is that you are deliberately telling lies, to smear me.

Different day same crap I read from you. You ignore the threat Israel faces from Jidhadist fighters, the same ones that have come from arould the muslim world to fight next door in Syria and have previously attacked Israel before they built their walls to keep them out. You call it a hypothetical situation which says to me you have no sense of reality or choses to ignore it.


You posted a link which only opened a google search page with the words 'ISIS take Iraq towns' in it's search engine. The articles on the page are all dated August 2014. You pretend coverage in the media of ISIS began when they first started taking chunks of land 6 months ago yet as you well know coverage only began when the US took an interest. Again you and your fellow anti Israeli posters on here couldn't care about the threat of Jihadist terrorists in Palestine or Syria but instead resort to making up lies and verbally abusing a demotratic country that is trying to defend itself from terrorist groups at it's front door.

　
All eligible citizens in Israel have a direct and active participation in the political decision making by going to the polls and electing a government. That is what a democracy is and that is what Israel has which you dont believe. As regards the West Bank this is a disputed area with no current ownership by Israel or Palestinie. There are half a million jews that live there which need protection but in the long run a settlement will have to be reached between both sides that allows for a Palestine state but also the protection of jews there. That will take time to achieve which will involve both sides sitting at the table but not terrorist orgainisations using the situation to alienate the other side.

　
Yes civilians die when a country is forced into a war. A war is never good for either side and when you have to pin point areas of rocket launches in built up areas unfortuanally men, women and children do get killed. It's not good to see but the rocket launches have to stop. The alternative is having Isreali civilians been killed with no end in sight and dont forget all through 2013 and so far in 2014 rockets were fired into Israel.

　
Hamas killing the 3 young teenagers was the final straw to force Israel into action. Do you honestly believe civilians dont get killed in a war where they live alongside terrorists who want to murder and kill people in another country. Of course civilians get killed, that is the reality of stopping bad people that want to do badness. Any time Israel comes under attack they should hit back and hit back hard and if you had any understanding you would support them. That is the only message these terrorists in Palestine understands.

　
You also take a pot joke saying Israel wants to invade Egypt and Jordan and then you coms back to me and say you are been sarcastic. You really are a clown aren't you. Do you think the threat Israel faces is a joke. These are seriously bad terrorists Israel has to deal with. Most of those jihadist fighters are next door in Syria but it wasn't all that long ago they were sending in sucicide bombers into Israel to kill their people. Do you want to make a sarcastic joke about that aswell.

　
Yes peace treaties in the past around the world have broken down unfortunally over time. It has happened in Darfur, Chechnya, Bicesse and Luska peace treaties in Angola, Sri Lanka, Guatemala, Ukraine-Russia peace treaty etc... It's a fact of life. For Israel to ignore this fact and maintain a weak army would be very foolish on their part. Given the past history Israel has with its neighbours and the treat from Jidhadists and terrorist in Palestine it is just as important now as it was back in 1967 for them to stay strong and maintain their right to survival.

　
Israel did ease the siege in Gaza even though rockets were landing in their country throughout 2013.They eased their restriction on the entering of construction material and 500 trucks a day full of food and other supplies were going into Palestine at the Israeli border. It was after the August 2013 Rabba massacre that Egypt decided to close off its border crossing with Palestine and destroy the illegal tunnels used to bring in rockets and weapons into Gaza. Israel has no choice but to keep track of what goes in to Gaza because of the control of Hamas with it's objective to attack and destroy Israel.

　
You refuse to acknowledge that some of 1,500 palestine prisoners that were freed by Israel went back to engaging in terrorist activities which is very typical of you and your lies. Some such as the below went on to fire a machine gun at an unsuspecting Israeli family on their way to celebrate passover. And those prisioners that were released were not the only ones to go back to their terrorist activities.

http://www.breakingisraelnews.com/17047/released-hamas-terrorist-responsible-passover-terror-attack-arrested-idf/#qsSTOPOwTwVfS7FW.97

　
You still miserably pretend Israel dont have a threat to it's future survival even though Hamas as part of its charter wants the state of Israel to be replaced by an Islamic state along with the hatred of Jidahist groups around the world to Israel. You dismiss the treatment of the jews from the Nazi's and you think this time the threat of extermination they face is different. Well thank f*ck they dont have to rely on idiots like you for their future survival.

Dan_Solo

conditioned games wrote: »

Yes civilians die when a country is forced into a war.

You mean like when Israel tries to steal another country's land? That kind of war?

Dan_Solo

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

So country that doesn't recognise Israel exists, sets up organization to try people for war crimes with about as much international standing as a Dennis the Menace fan-club, how is this relevant to anything?

It hardly matters who sets up a court though does it when it comes to Israel. Ever heard of the ICC? US veto saves their ass every time.

user2011

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

So country that doesn't recognise Israel exists, sets up organization to try people for war crimes with about as much international standing as a Dennis the Menace fan-club, how is this relevant to anything?

I mean presumably if Israel sets up its own kangaroo court to find Mahmoud Abbas guilty of being 'a big doo-doo head' you'll be as enthusiastic?

The judges of the Tribunal will be headed by retired Malaysian Federal Court judge Tan Sri Dato Lamin bin Haji Mohd Yunus Lamin, who also served as an ad litem judge at the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Republic of Yugoslavia.

The other judges in the Tribunal include notable names such as Mr Alfred Lambremont Webre, a Yale graduate, who authored several books on politics, Tunku Sofiah Jewa, practising lawyer and author of numerous publications on International Law, Prof Salleh Buang, former Federal Counsel in the Attorney-General Chambers and prominent author, Prof Emeritus Datuk Dr Shad Saleem Faruqi, prominent academic and professor of law, Michael Hourigan, an internationally renowned human rights lawyer and Prof Eric David, an International Humanitarian Law expert who was counsel at the International Court of Justice and the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/state-of-israel-charged-for-crime-of-genocide-and-war-crimes-kuala-lumpur-tribunal/5346375

Yep big bad Malasiya doesn't recognise Israel is at fault :rolleyes:

Might help if you read the frigging piece Irish instead of the default position you hold so dear.

user2011

conditioned games wrote: »

Are you taking the piss. These rockets fired into Irsael have killed people. The latest death from them was a 4 year old Israeli boy called Daniel Tregerman that was killed last week by a rocket fired from the Palestinians. He is now in the ground and you are trying to tell me the Palestinians are sending up fireworks. The lies and rubbish from posters on here is unreal.

Can you name the hundreds of Palestinian kids that have died?

Nope...

wes

conditioned games wrote: »

Are you taking the piss. These rockets fired into Irsael have killed people. The latest death from them was a 4 year old Israeli boy called Daniel Tregerman that was killed last week by a rocket fired from the Palestinians. He is now in the ground and you are trying to tell me the Palestinians are sending up fireworks. The lies and rubbish from posters on here is unreal.

Here is the names of 132 children murdered by the IDF:

Revealed: the Palestinian children killed by Israeli forces

Some babies as young as a couple of months old....

Irish Praetorian

user2011 wrote: »

http://www.globalresearch.ca/state-of-israel-charged-for-crime-of-genocide-and-war-crimes-kuala-lumpur-tribunal/5346375

Yep big bad Malasiya doesn't recognise Israel is at fault :rolleyes:

Might help if you read the frigging piece Irish instead of the default position you hold so dear.

Fair enough, its a well staffed Dennis the Menace fanclub, better?

user2011

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Fair enough, its a well staffed Dennis the Menace fanclub, better?

If that makes you feel better with the stance you've taking and are not willing to move on.

Irish Praetorian

Dan_Solo wrote: »

It hardly matters who sets up a court though does it when it comes to Israel. Ever heard of the ICC? US veto saves their ass every time.

Is this a serious complaint? You want to begrudge the US for protecting Israel in international institutions when many countries in the world either don't subscribe to the institutions outright or don't give a damn about following their declarations? And before you ask I would include the UN in this regard.

If its any consolation I believe Israel has declared a withdrawal from ICC jurisdiction so presumably those vetoes won't be much of a concern any more.

Irish Praetorian

user2011 wrote: »

If that makes you feel better with the stance you've taking and are not willing to move on.

Well I would like to think my stance is fairly straightforward, court with no legal standing says 'Israel bad!' - OK why should we care?

user2011

ou posted a link which only opened a google search page with the words 'ISIS take Iraq towns' in it's search engine. The articles on the page are all dated August 2014. You pretend coverage in the media of ISIS began when they first started taking chunks of land 6 months ago yet as you well know coverage only began when the US took an interest. Again you and your fellow anti Israeli posters on here couldn't care about the threat of Jihadist terrorists in Palestine or Syria but instead resort to making up lies and verbally abusing a demotratic country that is trying to defend itself from terrorist groups at it's front door.

If you've missed the whole "up rising" in Syria, well ISIL, ISIS, IS were being backed by the US/UK under the umbrella of the FSA (Free Syrian Army) until they found out what type of fighters they were backing. IS has been in the news for nearly 2 years masquerading as the FSA for about a year of the conflict in Syria.

user2011

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Well I would like to think my stance is fairly straightforward, court with no legal standing says 'Israel bad!' - OK why should we care?

So you're happy to dismiss those people because they've overseen a court ruling in a country that doesn't recognise Israel? Even with the standing some of them have gotten by ruling in other conflicts..

Irish Praetorian

user2011 wrote: »

So you're happy to dismiss those people because they've overseen a court ruling in a country that doesn't recognise Israel? Even with the standing some of them have gotten by ruling in other conflicts..

I'm happy to dismiss these people because their operating for a court with no legal standing, that they are in Malaysia is a nice little incidental but it doesn't matter if their based in Letterkenny, you can't make up your own courts and expect the rest of the world to treat you as such. It would be a bit like a group of former Gardai deciding they didn't like the rules they had to operate so they were going to set-up their own police force and laws.

deirdremf

conditioned games wrote: »

Are you taking the piss. These rockets fired into Irsael have killed people. The latest death from them was a 4 year old Israeli boy called Daniel Tregerman that was killed last week by a rocket fired from the Palestinians. He is now in the ground and you are trying to tell me the Palestinians are sending up fireworks. The lies and rubbish from posters on here is unreal.

I'm sorry to hear about Daniel Tregerman's death.
Just two small questions:
1. What was a german doing in Israel?
2. Could you tell me the names of all the Palestinians killed in the "conflict"? Or even the names of all the 4-year-old Palestinians killed?

Thanks.

user2011

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

I'm happy to dismiss these people because their operating for a court with no legal standing, that they are in Malaysia is a nice little incidental but it doesn't matter if their based in Letterkenny, you can't make up your own courts and expect the rest of the world to treat you as such. It would be a bit like a group of former Gardai deciding they didn't like the rules they had to operate so they were going to set-up their own police force and laws.

You haven't disputed the acts that were done? just the country and the people that are passing judgement on the acts.. that's nice :rolleyes:

If the US would throw away it's zionist blinkers Israel would of had judgement passed on it a long time ago.

deirdremf

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

I'm happy to dismiss these people because their operating for a court with no legal standing, that they are in Malaysia is a nice little incidental but it doesn't matter if their based in Letterkenny, you can't make up your own courts and expect the rest of the world to treat you as such. It would be a bit like a group of former Gardai deciding they didn't like the rules they had to operate so they were going to set-up their own police force and laws.

How do you make out it has no legal standing? I thought it was set up by Malaysia?

Do you mean that Israel doesn't recognise it - well that is a different matter. If the court orders an arrest, whose law will they accept, Malaysia's or Israel's?

wes

conditioned games wrote: »

Different day same crap I read from you.

You have yet to prove various accusation you have made against me. Get back to me when you can back them up.

conditioned games wrote: »

You ignore the threat Israel faces from Jidhadist fighters, the same ones that have come from arould the muslim world to fight next door in Syria and have previously attacked Israel before they built their walls to keep them out. You call it a hypothetical situation which says to me you have no sense of reality or choses to ignore it.

Repeating the same thing you said before, will not make it right. Firstly, you claim that Israel has been attacked by groups in Syria, before they built there wall? How do you figure that exactly? Seeing as Israel little land grabbing wall predates the Syrian conflicts by several years.............. I take it you can show some proof of groups involved in the Syrian civil having attacked Israel in the period before they build there land grabbing wall?

I don't actually expect an answer, as you tend not to acknowledge inconvenient facts.

conditioned games wrote: »

You posted a link which only opened a google search page with the words 'ISIS take Iraq towns' in it's search engine. The articles on the page are all dated August 2014.

Now, now what your saying is not true. You just looked at the first page of results I take it:

Militants take Iraq gas town; reports of Syria strikes on Isis

The above story was posted:

Thu, Jun 26, 2014, 11:53

Seriously, it is astonishing that you consistently insist on being wrong over and over again, and seem unable to click the page 2 button on a google search. The first page tends to have the most recent stuff.......

conditioned games wrote: »

All eligible citizens in Israel have a direct and active participation in the political decision making by going to the polls and electing a government. That is what a democracy is and that is what Israel has which you dont believe.

I never said that didn't take place. You seem to have trouble with basic reading and comprehension. That, or your making stuff up.

conditioned games wrote: »

As regards the West Bank this is a disputed area with no current ownership by Israel or Palestinie.

Its not disputed, its occupied firstly. Do get your facts straight. Under international law, the land belong to Palestinians. Nice of you to admit you deny the existence of the occupation. Good to see that we have established, that you falsely claim the land is disputed. It being occupied is recognized by everyone except fanatical Zionist and there supporters.

conditioned games wrote: »

There are half a million jews that live there which need protection but in the long run a settlement will have to be reached between both sides that allows for a Palestine state but also the protection of jews there. That will take time to achieve which will involve both sides sitting at the table but not terrorist orgainisations using the situation to alienate the other side.

There are over half a million illegal settlers in the West Bank..... So now you denying the existence of the illegal settlements. Why do you deny these facts?

Btw, Israel has put there citizens on someone else land, and such are the ones putting them in danger. Remove there illegal settlement and there citizens are no long in danger there.

conditioned games wrote: »

　
Yes civilians die when a country is forced into a war.

No one forced Israel to steal Palestinian land, that is a choice that Zionists have made. This is what is known as aggression.

conditioned games wrote: »

　
A war is never good for either side and when you have to pin point areas of rocket launches in built up areas unfortuanally men, women and children do get killed.

You mean like that time that the IDF murdered some kids playing football on the beach, in full view of the worlds media, with no militants in sight, and then proceeded to murder those children. Plenty of example of the IDF targeting civilians. There is no more denying that the IDF target and deliberately murder civilians, and such denial in the face of so much evidence is tantamount to support imho.

conditioned games wrote: »

　
It's not good to see but the rocket launches have to stop. The alternative is having Isreali civilians been killed with no end in sight and dont forget all through 2013 and so far in 2014 rockets were fired into Israel.

And all through that time, Israel kept up there siege of Gaza......

Just today, we get another announcement of land theft in the West Bank, which is hardly the actions of someone who wants peace, or is adhering the ceasefire. Surely, stealing more Palestinian land should be considered provocation from Israel, but then when Israel engaged in aggression no one seems to care.

conditioned games wrote: »

　　
Hamas killing the 3 young teenagers was the final straw to force Israel into action.

The IDF killed 2 Palestinian teenagers a couples weeks before that.......

Also, still no proof that Hamas killed them.

Btw, do Hamas now have the right to attack Israel, now that have announced there going to steal a whole bunch of land in the West Bank? Surely, that breaks the ceasefire? Even if the ceasefire only mentions Gaza, it still counts as breaking if by Israel own reasoning? Do you think it helpful to you know steal some more land, oh wait you believe its "disputed"......

conditioned games wrote: »

　　
Do you honestly believe civilians dont get killed in a war where they live alongside terrorists who want to murder and kill people in another country. Of course civilians get killed, that is the reality of stopping bad people that want to do badness. Any time Israel comes under attack they should hit back and hit back hard and if you had any understanding you would support them. That is the only message these terrorists in Palestine understands.

Do you honestly believe that after multiple instance of the IDF deliberately targeted civilians, that anyone is going to believe the complete and utter garbage you keep spouting to excuse the murder of civilians by the IDF.

conditioned games wrote: »

　　
You also take a pot joke saying Israel wants to invade Egypt and Jordan and then you coms back to me and say you are been sarcastic.

Your problem with reading and comprehension is yours not mine.

conditioned games wrote: »

　
You really are a clown aren't you.

Childish personal insults once again. That is pathetic coming from someone who denies basic facts about this conflict, refers to occupied Palestinian land as being "disputed", which is untrue, and refuse to use the term "illegal" in regards to Israeli settlers.

So you deny basic facts about this conflict and you call me a clown. That is some funny stuff right there.

conditioned games wrote: »

　
Do you think the threat Israel faces is a joke.

Referring the occupied Palestinian land as "disputed" is a joke surely.

conditioned games wrote: »

　
These are seriously bad terrorists Israel has to deal with.

Yeah, those children playing football, were real bad terrorists, when the IDF blatantly murdered them. BTW, that sarcasm, as you seem to have issues getting that.

conditioned games wrote: »

　
Most of those jihadist fighters are next door in Syria but it wasn't all that long ago they were sending in sucicide bombers into Israel to kill their people. Do you want to make a sarcastic joke about that aswell.

Care to prove that the groups currently fighting in the Syrian civil war sent suicide bombers into Israel.......

conditioned games wrote: »

　
Yes peace treaties in the past around the world have broken down unfortunally over time. It has happened in Darfur, Chechnya, Bicesse and Luska peace treaties in Angola, Sri Lanka, Guatemala, Ukraine-Russia peace treaty etc... It's a fact of life. For Israel to ignore this fact and maintain a weak army would be very foolish on their part. Given the past history Israel has with its neighbours and the treat from Jidhadists and terrorist in Palestine it is just as important now as it was back in 1967 for them to stay strong and maintain their right to survival.

Again ignoring what I was actually saying. You claim Israel was surrounded by enemies, I pointed out that was untrue. Changing the goal posts by invoking some potential hypothetical situation doesn't make you claim true.

conditioned games wrote: »

　
Israel did ease the siege in Gaza even though rockets were landing in their country throughout 2013.

Except that is not the case........ No one else is reporting that anywhere, but nice try anyway.

conditioned games wrote: »

　
They eased their restriction on the entering of construction material and 500 trucks a day full of food and other supplies were going into Palestine at the Israeli border. It was after the August 2013 Rabba massacre that Egypt decided to close off its border crossing with Palestine and destroy the illegal tunnels used to bring in rockets and weapons into Gaza. Israel has no choice but to keep track of what goes in to Gaza because of the control of Hamas with it's objective to attack and destroy Israel.

So you use the world illegal to describe the tunnels, but not the illegal settlements. Interesting that....

Sure, Israel is keeping track, and purposefully keeping civilians on just enough to barely keep them alive. That is collective punishment, and as such completely illegal, seeing as we know full well that the siege target every single man woman and child.

conditioned games wrote: »

　
You refuse to acknowledge that some of 1,500 palestine prisoners that were freed by Israel went back to engaging in terrorist activities which is very typical of you and your lies.

What lies? You mean like referring to the occupied Palestinian territories as being disputed? You mean lies like that?

Also, Israel has arrested 100s of people, and there is no evidence that all of them were involved in attacks, but as per usual you do deliberately misrepresent what is being said, by making things up.

conditioned games wrote: »

　
Some such as the below went on to fire a machine gun at an unsuspecting Israeli family on their way to celebrate passover. And those prisioners that were released were not the only ones to go back to their terrorist activities.

http://www.breakingisraelnews.com/17047/released-hamas-terrorist-responsible-passover-terror-attack-arrested-idf/#qsSTOPOwTwVfS7FW.97

Your numbers are way, way off. 100s were arrested, and quite frankly I expect you to prove that every single last one was engaged in attacks, otherwise, your claims of me telling lies, are false, and I expect you retract that claim, unless you can prove it.

Now, I expect fair and balanced sources, that aren't the Israeli government, about every single Palestinian they have arrested. You said I am lieing, so prove it, and prove all the other accusations you have made against me, again and again.

conditioned games wrote: »

　
You still miserably pretend Israel dont have a threat to it's future survival even though Hamas as part of its charter wants the state of Israel to be replaced by an Islamic state along with the hatred of Jidahist groups around the world to Israel.

Israel has already replaced Palestine, so I do find it hilarious for Israel, which has done (and is still doing it btw) what Hamas says in the decades old charter, they would like to do, to try and claim some moral high ground in this. They are as bad as Hamas, and arguable worse, seeing as they have already done it.

Secondly, I never denied that other groups hate Israel, just that any attacks are hypothetical, seeing as the Syrian civil war is still ongoing, and those groups could be wiped out, and I have no idea what the outcome there is going to be, and neither do you but then you never fail to misrepresent what is actually being said, and this is just the latest in a long list of false accusations, that you refuse to prove.

conditioned games wrote: »

　
You dismiss the treatment of the jews from the Nazi's and you think this time the threat of extermination they face is different. Well thank f*ck they dont have to rely on idiots like you for their future survival.

Wait, a second this thread isn't about the Nazi treatment of Jews. Its about Israel and Palestine. Seriously, you have some gall coming out with the crap you do.

You say that I am lieing, and you engage in name calling, calling me a clown, and make false claim after false claim, about what I say. Your posts are at this point just personal attacks, as you can't back up your argument, so instead you have a go at me, again and again. Its really rather sad and pathetic, but typical of supporters of Zionism, when in doubt make it personal.

Irish Praetorian

user2011 wrote: »

You haven't disputed the acts that were done? just the country and the people that are passing judgement on the acts.. that's nice :rolleyes:

Stephen Hawking, Mary Robinson, the Resurrected Corpse of Princess Diana could get together tomorrow and say 'We have formed ourselves into the International Court of Righteousness' - they would have about as much legal standing as these chaps, which is to say none at all. There is nothing else too dispute.

If the US would throw away it's zionist blinkers Israel would of had judgement passed on it a long time ago.

We had this discussion before but I'm happy to have it again - lets say tomorrow the US decides 'No more Pro-Israel stuff', Israel's military budget shrinks 20% and it's no longer protected by the US veto on various international organizations. Give me the timeline of how this translates into a Free Palestine.

Irish Praetorian

deirdremf wrote: »

How do you make out it has no legal standing? I thought it was set up by Malaysia?

Do you mean that Israel doesn't recognise it - well that is a different matter. If the court orders an arrest, whose law will they accept, Malaysia's or Israel's?

I should probably say international legal standing - in effect I expect the response to be the same, in Malaysia one rule, in Israel another.

end of the road

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Out of interest, what is your ideal 'end scenario' for the region? Removal of all settlers from the West Bank and Gaza? Removal of all Israelis from the UN-Palestine partition? Removal of all Israelis from Israel full stop? Or some other solution that I'm not seeing?

a israelies back to pre 1967 borders.

user2011

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Stephen Hawking, Mary Robinson, the Resurrected Corpse of Princess Diana could get together tomorrow and say 'We have formed ourselves into the International Court of Righteousness' - they would have about as much legal standing as these chaps, which is to say none at all. There is nothing else too dispute.



We had this discussion before but I'm happy to have it again - lets say tomorrow the US decides 'No more Pro-Israel stuff', Israel's military budget shrinks 20% and it's no longer protected by the US veto on various international organizations. Give me the timeline of how this translates into a Free Palestine.

Yup Okay I bow down to your all knowing zionist apologising. A sovereign state sets up a court body with international recognised people who have sat in the ICC about the genocide in Rwanda and they get compared to princess diana and hawkings "yep Okay"

Your going to dispute that the US backing of Israel has no bearing on this.. All UNSC rulings that got vetoed by the US would of had no effect on this disgusting situation.

Let's say Hamas was in Russia/North Korea/Syria/Iraq (under Sadam) would the US still hold the position of them being terrorists?

Irish Praetorian

user2011 wrote: »

Yup Okay I bow down to your all knowing zionist apologising. A sovereign state sets up a court body with international recognised people who have sat in the ICC about the genocide in Rwanda and they get compared to princess diana and hawkings "yep Okay"

Good, were making progress.

Your going to dispute that the US backing of Israel has no bearing on this.. All UNSC rulings that got vetoed by the US would of had no effect on this disgusting situation.

Well I don't think I've denied that the US is backing Israel in quite a few international institutions, nor have I claimed that such actions have no bearing on the conflict.

Let's say Hamas was in Russia/North Korea/Syria/Iraq (under Sadam) would the US still hold the position of them being terrorists?

I'm not sure what your getting at here? Are you suggesting what if Hamas was the government of North Korea or if they were a militant group opposing North Korea?

user2011

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Good, were making progress.



Well I don't think I've denied that the US is backing Israel in quite a few international institutions, nor have I claimed that such actions have no bearing on the conflict.



I'm not sure what your getting at here? Are you suggesting what if Hamas was the government of North Korea or if they were a militant group opposing North Korea?

You asked me to tell you a time line for the creation of the state of Palestine after the US withdrew it's support for Israel so implying they don't have a serious roll in stopping the creation of the state of Palestine. You think Israel could carry on it's merry way for another 10/20/30 years with no veto at the UNSC?

I think you understand the point I was making, swap out Israel put in Russia/North Korea and all things anti US and their opponents "Hamas" would they be classed as terrorists..

Dan_Solo

user2011 wrote: »

I think you understand the point I was making, swap out Israel put in Russia/North Korea and all things anti US and their opponents "Hamas" would they be classed as terrorists..

Well that's just it isn't it. Who can pay a blind bit of attention to the EU or US moaning at Putin about invading Ukraine when they're giving presents of the weapons the IDF are using to annexe Gaza and The West Bank?

Irish Praetorian

user2011 wrote: »

You asked me to tell you a time line for the creation of the state of Palestine after the US withdrew it's support for Israel so implying they don't have a serious roll in stopping the creation of the state of Palestine. You think Israel could carry on it's merry way for another 10/20/30 years with no veto at the UNSC?

Well actually thats kind of the point, someone has yet to fill in the gaps for me between US withdrawing support for Israel and an independent Palestine. They manage to leave out the bit where somehow a nuclear power, equipped with a capable and motivated military, based upon a founding myth of 'never again', somehow decides to just cow tow to international pressure? I dare say the far more likely scenario is our actions end up provoking the kind of Bosnia-esque scenario of widespread ethnic cleansing, culminating in a fait accompli. Neither of these are situations we should relish or welcome.

I think you understand the point I was making, swap out Israel put in Russia/North Korea and all things anti US and their opponents "Hamas" would they be classed as terrorists..

I was in a middle of writing up a little piece on how if Russia was Israel, how would Gaza compare to Grozny.

Instead, I will do what is normally done here, accuse you of Whataboutery! Bad Poster! :mad: Stop that whataboutery

Dan_Solo

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Instead, I will do what is normally done here, accuse you of Whataboutery! Bad Poster! :mad: Stop that whataboutery

Pity what he was saying isn't actually whataboutery though. Shucks, eh?

user2011

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Well actually thats kind of the point, someone has yet to fill in the gaps for me between US withdrawing support for Israel and an independent Palestine. They manage to leave out the bit where somehow a nuclear power, equipped with a capable and motivated military, based upon a founding myth of 'never again', somehow decides to just cow tow to international pressure? I dare say the far more likely scenario is our actions end up provoking the kind of Bosnia-esque scenario of widespread ethnic cleansing, culminating in a fait accompli. Neither of these are situations we should relish or welcome.



I was in a middle of writing up a little piece on how if Russia was Israel, how would Gaza compare to Grozny.

Instead, I will do what is normally done here, accuse you of Whataboutery! Bad Poster! :mad: Stop that whataboutery

Apologises about the whataboutery

Only read some of this argument before about whataboutery from you

Why would the can do no wrong state of Israel get provoked into ethnic cleansing when the international community is enforcing international law by way of the 48/67 boarders? What harm is going to be done to Israel by those boarders being enforced?

Irish Praetorian

user2011 wrote: »

Apologises about the whataboutery

Only read some of this argument before about whataboutery from you

Why would the can do no wrong state of Israel get provoked into ethnic cleansing when the international community is enforcing international law by way of the 48/67 boarders? What harm is going to be done to Israel by those boarders being enforced?

Well if you will recall, I actually do favour a two state solution and Israel out of Palestine, but the problem is how exactly do you enforce it? I mean how do you envisage Israel being compelled to accept the borders you would propose for example?