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Plastic plug to avoid metering

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13567

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    #62
    wendell borton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,336 ✭✭✭wendell borton


    I don't mind paying for the upkeep of the water supply infrastructure, but it should be included in the household charge. But it appears the water charges is the prelude to the eventual selling off of irish water to a multinational or goverment crony.


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    #63
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    I agree, but that's how it is because we're spending more than we take in.


    You're not paying twice for water, the revenue that would have gone to water is now being used to help close the gap in national spending.

    And so will the revenue gathered through water charges, Do you have a direct link to this being guaranteed to be only used to invest and maintain the water system "ring fenced" As they have said that plenty of times and then just put it in a bit pot.


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    #64
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    And so will the revenue gathered through water charges, Do you have a direct link to this being guaranteed to be only used to invest and maintain the water system "ring fenced" As they have said that plenty of times and then just put it in a bit pot.
    why would you ask me for proof of something I didn't claim?

    This tax isn't to upgrade our infrastructure it's intended to free up revenue to help close our gap in national spending.


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    #65
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    why would you ask me for proof of something I didn't claim?

    This tax isn't to upgrade our infrastructure it's intended to free up revenue to help close our gap in national spending.

    That's not what the government have been saying. The only way we will be closing the gap in national spending is getting the majority of people back to work.


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    #66
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    That's not what the government have been saying. The only way we will be closing the gap in national spending is getting the majority of people back to work.
    Of course the government aren't saying it "close public spending gap" isn't nearly as politically sound as "upgrade water infrastructure"


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    #67
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    Of course the government aren't saying it "close public spending gap" isn't nearly as politically sound as "upgrade water infrastructure"

    Fair enough, So all their talk of "money to be used for upgrade" and "Priority use of money to make water safe" is all just talking shop ?


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    #68
    Help!!!!
    Registered Users Posts: 2,965 ✭✭✭Help!!!!


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    why would you ask me for proof of something I didn't claim?

    This tax isn't to upgrade our infrastructure it's intended to free up revenue to help close our gap in national spending.

    If the government wants to close the gap in national spending then don't give 500,000 to Palestine or other charitable contributions until we sort our own country first ( charity starts at home )
    When someone goes into prison their dole money goes towards their upkeep rather than waiting for them when they get out ( will stop them thinking they going on holidays )
    That's just 2 ways to save millions rather than taxing the innocent


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    #69
    EI_Flyboy
    Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭EI_Flyboy


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Maybe we could just shoot people instead of spending money giving dole to every person with no job or educating every single child or trying to treat every sick person, thatd get the costs down.

    No no, the government is hoping if they create a situation so bad, enough of us will simply commit suicide!


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    #70
    astrofool
    Registered Users Posts: 16,496 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Help!!!! wrote: »
    If the government wants to close the gap in national spending then don't give 500,000 to Palestine or other charitable contributions until we sort our own country first ( charity starts at home )
    When someone goes into prison their dole money goes towards their upkeep rather than waiting for them when they get out ( will stop them thinking they going on holidays )
    That's just 2 ways to save millions rather than taxing the innocent

    The cost of charity is the cost of our involvement in the international community, if we want to be treated as a pariah among states, and lose the large benefits we get from being in the international community, then we can, by all means, stop giving money to Palestine et al.


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    #71
    Fiery mutant
    Registered Users Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭Fiery mutant


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Yup largest has what 600k people.

    Doesn't matter how many people there are. Running a country is like running any business, you have costs to cover and money to make. If you do it properly, you will end up in profit, if you are sh1t at it, then you will not.

    Ireland is sh1t at it.

    We should defend our way of life to an extent that any attempt on it is crushed, so that any adversary will never make such an attempt in the future.



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    #72
    HurtLocker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 655 ✭✭✭HurtLocker


    Fiery mutant wrote: »
    Doesn't matter how many people there are. Running a country is like running any business, you have costs to cover and money to make. If you do it properly, you will end up in profit, if you are sh1t at it, then you will not.

    Ireland is sh1t at it.
    As are most countries....

    Governments making a profit means they are taking more out than putting in. Not good for the economy.


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    #73
    Iwasfrozen
    Registered Users Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭Iwasfrozen


    HurtLocker wrote: »
    As are most countries....

    Governments making a profit means they are taking more out than putting in. Not good for the economy.
    Spending more than you are taking in and covering the deficit with debt is even worse for the economy.

    Great for politics though...


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    #74
    mikeym
    Registered Users Posts: 3,985 ✭✭✭mikeym


    We have to pay for water because we live in a hot country and droughts are very frequent.

    We have to pay for water because we should have been paying for it ages ago.

    We have to pay for water because the IMF said so.

    We should be paying for water because the countrys broke.

    We should be paying for water because those on private water schemes pay for it.

    Anyway im sick of the whole water charges and come January when we all get our bills, if I feel im being ripped off il be buying one of them €2 plastic plugs.


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    #75
    Bongalongherb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Bongalongherb


    Irish water will be sending out letters asking for the persons pps number, isn't this a data protection problem ? Irish water cannot force a person to give up their pps number, so how will this pan out if a person refuses to give this to them ?.


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    #76
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,793 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Bongalongherb wrote: »
    Irish water will be sending out letters asking for the persons pps number, isn't this a data protection problem ? Irish water cannot force a person to give up their pps number, so how will this pan out if a person refuses to give this to them ?.

    I thought this thread was about people digging up water meters. They would hardly have any interest in supplying their PPS number to Irish Water. The bills for someone with no meter or someone who destroys their meter will have to be estimated. So I suppose the people who don't apply for their free allowance will have to be billed on an estimated basis as well.

    What is the data protection problem?

    http://www.water.ie/news/statement-on-use-of-pps-n/

    Irish Water must ensure that all customers who are eligible for an allocation receive what they are entitled to. As such Irish Water is working on a means to allow people to confirm their relevant details and apply for their allowances.

    I notice their website is water.ie This other lot got in for irishwater.ie first.

    http://www.irishwater.ie/


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    #77
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,433 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Bongalongherb wrote: »
    Irish water will be sending out letters asking for the persons pps number, isn't this a data protection problem ? Irish water cannot force a person to give up their pps number, so how will this pan out if a person refuses to give this to them ?.

    I think the whole thing is linked to allowances for "free" water, if you don't want the allowance don't " offer" them your pps number,
    What they do with your pps and /or how they store them / cross reference them could well be a data protection issue ...

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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    #78
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Markcheese wrote: »
    I think the whole thing is linked to allowances for "free" water, if you don't want the allowance don't " offer" them your pps number,
    What they do with your pps and /or how they store them / cross reference them could well be a data protection issue ...

    Esb don't ask for your PPS number do they, Yet they are still able to give you your free electricity allowances.


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    #79
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Iwasfrozen wrote: »
    why would you ask me for proof of something I didn't claim?

    This tax isn't to upgrade our infrastructure it's intended to free up revenue to help close our gap in national spending.

    And that's why it's bollocks. We should be closing that gap by not paying CEO's of unnecessary public utilities €200k per year or spending €86m on consultants.

    I'm ok with paying more for the cost of living if it's necessary, but it can only be defined as "necessary" if we've already explored and exhausted the possibility of axing waste without hitting ordinary people further.


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    #80
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,433 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    mikeym wrote: »
    We have to pay for water because we live in a hot country and droughts are very frequent.

    We have to pay for water because we should have been paying for it ages ago.

    We have to pay for water because the IMF said so.
    We should be paying for water because the countrys broke.

    We should be paying for water because those on private water schemes pay for it.

    Anyway im sick of the whole water charges and come January when we all get our bills, if I feel im being ripped off il
    be buying one of them €2 plastic plugs
    I'm just planning on saving water, not gonna be daft , but fixing leaks, reducing use and using a rain water tank , reckon it'll be cheaper than trying to bypass the meter , getting a fine , billed the flat fee and making a rod to be beaten up with ...
    ( apparently one of Irish waters priorities is proper sewerage system for my area... Woohoo 21st century and we're gonna get sewers ....) ( seriously)

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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    #81
    Thomas D
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 554 ✭✭✭Thomas D


    The water charges are chump change. Why would you bother stressing over it?


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    #82
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    Was talking to a mate recently he's Scottish, Were did our Government get that they have water charges from ? He says they don't have any. Our government kept bringing up some Scottish model of how to run IW and all that. So if they were to follow the Scottish model we would pay for water through direct taxation. And that's what we already do.


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    #83
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,793 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Was talking to a mate recently he's Scottish, Were did our Government get that they have water charges from ? He says they don't have any. Our government kept bringing up some Scottish model of how to run IW and all that. So if they were to follow the Scottish model we would pay for water through direct taxation. And that's what we already do.

    He was just joking.

    http://www.scottishwater.co.uk/you-and-your-home/your-charges/2014-2015-charges


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    #84
    darkpagandeath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 24,465 ✭✭✭✭darkpagandeath


    dxhound2005 wrote: »
    He was just joking.

    http://www.scottishwater.co.uk/you-and-your-home/your-charges/2014-2015-charges

    Detailed on your Council Tax bill, That's direct taxation. It's not a pay per unit or just for water. Part of the council tax is used for water. Not the same thing at all as metering and charging for water only.


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    #85
    dxhound2005
    Registered Users Posts: 20,793 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    Detailed on your Council Tax bill, That's direct taxation. It's not a pay per unit or just for water. Part of the council tax is used for water. Not the same thing at all as metering and charging for water only.

    No. It is a separate charge apart from the Council Tax just for water and waste water.

    http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/scotland/tax_s/tax_council_tax_s/council_tax_scotland.htm

    Each year, every local authority will set a rate of council tax for each valuation band. You pay the council tax and there is a separate annual charge for household water and sewerage which is collected by the local authority with the council tax.

    Instead of metering Scotland and most of England and Wales link their water charges to the valuation of the house. That's one way of doing it but there are winners and losers under that system as well.

    http://www.scottishwater.co.uk/you-and-your-home/your-charges/2014-2015-charges/2014-2015-unmetered-charges


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    #86
    Bog Standard User
    Registered Users Posts: 847 ✭✭✭Bog Standard User


    TheZohan wrote: »
    Bono will save us.

    nah he buys in evian


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    #87
    Bongalongherb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,766 ✭✭✭Bongalongherb


    Conor Pope IrishTimes.

    What if I don’t pay my bill? They can’t just cut me off?
    No. What will happen is your water pressure will be reduced to a trickle. It will be enough to drink and keep your house fairly clean but that’ll be it.

    So it seems there will be no fines/court as they will just lower the water pressure. Sure You could manage on that easily enough as a single person or even 2 people. Better than paying them twice for the service.


    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/consumer/q-a-explaining-the-details-of-the-water-charges-1.1884200?page=1


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    #88
    corkcity
    Registered Users Posts: 154 ✭✭corkcity


    anyone have a link on where i can buy one of these 2e plugs please


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    #89
    Wicklowrider
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭Wicklowrider


    Thomas D wrote: »
    The water charges are chump change. Why would you bother stressing over it?

    This is why it is an unfair tax and in that respect similar to the LPT.
    Chump change to one person does not equate to small money for every family.

    Some ( actually a LOT) of people are not doing very well.
    People who will need to decide if they pay this bill and do without the new tyres their car needs or do without health insurance or even cut back on essentials like food and utilities. Loading charges like these on lower earning people pushes them further to the point where their low paid wages reach the stage where its not worth going out the door in the morning.


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    #90
    Markcheese
    Registered Users Posts: 8,433 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    Bongalongherb wrote: »
    So it seems there will be no fines/court as they will just lower the water pressure. Sure You could manage on that easily enough as a single person or even 2 people. Better than paying them twice for the service.


    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/consumer/q-a-explaining-the-details-of-the-
    water-charges-1.1884200?page=1

    Not advocating it, and won't be doing it , but I'm putting in a rain water tank to provide washing/showers/loos ect , the trickle would provide my drinking water and probably (if needed) top up my rain water tank (if low) over a 24 hr period...

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



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    #91
    SaveOurLyric
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,138 ✭✭✭SaveOurLyric


    darkpagandeath wrote: »
    True but a lot of people have realised that if you save water, If enough people save water. Irish water will put the price up, they need to make a profit. So saving water = higher water charge. Will people accept that ?


    A higher charge per litre. But not necessarily on your bill.

    An individual bill will not rise as long as you reduce consumption in line with the price rise.

    Giving you scope to lower it if you reduce by more than the average. And a likely reduction anyway due to operating economies of scale and reduced future investment needed to meet the wasteful demand.


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