Fiancé has an issue with my salary

scallywaggles

If your partner is saying nasty comments to you on a daily basis and you don't like it you need to tell him to stop. By getting married you are choosing to accept your partner as they are, if he is like this now and you are accepting of it he is not going to suddenly change, stop, or get over it just because you marry. The nasty comments will continue, he obviously believes it is acceptable to speak to his partner this way and that you must think it is too by your silence.

If you don't like it you need to address it before you get married otherwise you will have a lifetime of nasty digs which is fine if you are ok with that but not fine if you have children and they have to be subjected to it too. If you're too afraid of bringing it up with him because it might make him feel bad or have irrational outbursts during that conversation you should be asking yourself why you want to be with someone who appears to think it is ok to make you feel like that everyday and potentially for the rest of your life.

pookie82

You need to have a very frank discussion with him, and it needs to go something like this:

(Actually, I say "discussion", but in fact he just needs to listen to you, I’m not sure what acceptable comeback he could offer than “ok, fair point.”)

“When you infer that you would be earning more than me had you followed the route I did, that might be the case, but you didn’t follow that route, and constantly repeating that you would have done SO much better than me by now is insulting and petty.

You made your own choices in terms of your career and you should be able to live with them without jealously commenting on mine. I worked hard to get where I am now and instead of the pride a future spouse should feel, all you display is jealousy.

Stop assuming you’re better than me or competing. Competition has no place in a healthy relationship. If you can’t be happy for me, I’m better off alone.

It doesn’t matter if your constant comments are "jokes" and you don’t intend to be taken seriously … at this stage, I DO take them seriously, and they’re hurtful. I want them to stop. If you have nothing nice to say, stop commenting on my salary or career.

If you think you’re more talented than me and should be earning more, go for it. I won’t stand in your way. In fact, I’d applaud you all the way, because that’s what life partners do for each other. If you can’t do the same for me, you’re not going to be a constructive influence in my life.

If you can’t agree to the above, we need to really consider whether you’re going to be a destructive force in my life over time, constantly wearing me down with negativity around my achievements while simultaneously enjoying a very nice lifestyle off the back of them.”

I honestly can’t see how he could argue the above, OP, unless there’s something you’re not telling us. I’ve come across this sense of entitlement coupled with bitterness before, and unfortunately if his ego is inflated enough, no amount of reasoning will make him see the reality. Which is a shame, and completely at odds with how intelligent/creative/amazing he assumes himself to be.

pookie82

One more thing...

When you say you don’t feel you can converse about this without him a) denying the problem even exists, or b) becoming immediately defensive, perhaps it might be an idea to actually put it in an email?

It sounds daft but hear me out … in writing, your points may hit home possibly more than they could verbally, not to mention the fact that he can read and re-read them and digest them without immediately confronting you verbally or interrupting you as you try to make them.

Sounds to me like he won’t take criticism of his attitude well, and if you try to “talk” it through with him, he could easily sulk or argue his way through your points without hearing them. He needs to really THINK about his attitude and how it’s affecting you. Sometimes being told something in a conversation won’t “hit home” in the same way as it would if it’s been written down and you can really ponder it before you react—your instinct, if you’re a naturally defensive person, is to bite back without hearing what’s being said.

It sounds like a silly analogy, but I always apply the rule for myself, in work or personally, that if an email makes me angry or irritated or annoyed, I purposely wait until the next day to respond to it. What I want to type in the moment is usually inappropriate and will only make the problem worse … by the time I come to respond the next day, I’ve let the idea settle, thought it out more, and I’m much more composed in my response.

That’s the beauty of written communication, you can think before you interrupt/fly off the handle. It will sound odd to send your fiancé an “email” about something so important, so just tell him that you’ve sent it, to read it when he gets a moment, and just say it’s something that’s been on your mind for a long time now and you need to lay it all out without interruption. It *might* get through to him more than a verbal exchange could.

It should also make him ponder his general behaviour in serious discussions if you feel like you have to write something down to be heard.

ivytwine

pookie82 wrote: »

One more thing...

When you say you don’t feel you can converse about this without him a) denying the problem even exists, or b) becoming immediately defensive, perhaps it might be an idea to actually put it in an email?

It sounds daft but hear me out … in writing, your points may hit home possibly more than they could verbally, not to mention the fact that he can read and re-read them and digest them without immediately confronting you verbally or interrupting you as you try to make them.

Sounds to me like he won’t take criticism of his attitude well, and if you try to “talk” it through with him, he could easily sulk or argue his way through your points without hearing them. He needs to really THINK about his attitude and how it’s affecting you. Sometimes being told something in a conversation won’t “hit home” in the same way as it would if it’s been written down and you can really ponder it before you react—your instinct, if you’re a naturally defensive person, is to bite back without hearing what’s being said.

It sounds like a silly analogy, but I always apply the rule for myself, in work or personally, that if an email makes me angry or irritated or annoyed, I purposely wait until the next day to respond to it. What I want to type in the moment is usually inappropriate and will only make the problem worse … by the time I come to respond the next day, I’ve let the idea settle, thought it out more, and I’m much more composed in my response.

That’s the beauty of written communication, you can think before you interrupt/fly off the handle. It will sound odd to send your fiancé an “email” about something so important, so just tell him that you’ve sent it, to read it when he gets a moment, and just say it’s something that’s been on your mind for a long time now and you need to lay it all out without interruption. It *might* get through to him more than a verbal exchange could.

It should also make him ponder his general behaviour in serious discussions if you feel like you have to write something down to be heard.

Excellent idea Pookie, but personally I would go for a handwritten letter over an email, more personal I think and something about the words on a screen can be a bit harsh.

pookie82

ivytwine wrote: »

Excellent idea Pookie, but personally I would go for a handwritten letter over an email, more personal I think and something about the words on a screen can be a bit harsh.

You might be right about that! Basically any medium whereby he can sit and read it (away from the OP) and hopefully have time to digest it and really ponder what she has said without interruption or reaction on the spot.

irishguy1983

As a general question how does it work when one person earns a lot more than the other??

Tis kind of awkward really I suppose....

What happens when they go away on holidays? Say 1 person wants to hit up a 5 star hotel and the other person can only afford an average 3 star? Happened to me a while back - was seeing a girl I knew earned a lot more and we were only seeing each other for a small while (about 3 months) but I got very anxious about the future and how things like that would work...

mylefttesticle

Your partner does not have an issue with your salary, he has an issue with you!

You are polar opposites and that can work if you both see the beauty of each others personalities but unfortunately for you he only see's his own inadequate traits when he looks at you and that is something you need to bring out to the open before you sign anything that legally binds you together in the eyes of the law example: Marriage because I can assure you he wont be jealous of your salary if he wants half of what you earn when you are getting a divorce.

Stop being afraid of the confrontation, tell him you think he resents you and its hurtful and you are questioning your relationship and him because of it and don't marry him until you are happy and secure that he loves you for who you are and not what you fecking earn because that is just pathetic.

mylefttesticle

irishguy1983 wrote: »

As a general question how does it work when one person earns a lot more than the other??

Tis kind of awkward really I suppose....

What happens when they go away on holidays? Say 1 person wants to hit up a 5 star hotel and the other person can only afford an average 3 star? Happened to me a while back - was seeing a girl I knew earned a lot more and we were only seeing each other for a small while (about 3 months) but I got very anxious about the future and how things like that would work...

You do what most normal people do and sit down and discuss these things!

lazybones32

Don't know if someone has already highlighted the obvious but 'money issues' are one of the greatest causes of stress and strife in a marriage: you two need to get talking about this elephant in the room.

irishguy1983

mylefttesticle wrote: »

You do what most normal people do and sit down and discuss these things!

I don't think it is as easy as that - look at this thread for example

When there is a serious money difference I can see how it would cause difficulties - I understand two mature adults should talk it out but life ain't as simple as that - again hence the thread

irishguy1983

mylefttesticle wrote: »

Your partner does not have an issue with your salary, he has an issue with you!

You are polar opposites and that can work if you both see the beauty of each others personalities but unfortunately for you he only see's his own inadequate traits when he looks at you and that is something you need to bring out to the open before you sign anything that legally binds you together in the eyes of the law example: Marriage because I can assure you he wont be jealous of your salary if he wants half of what you earn when you are getting a divorce.

Stop being afraid of the confrontation, tell him you think he resents you and its hurtful and you are questioning your relationship and him because of it and don't marry him until you are happy and secure that he loves you for who you are and not what you fecking earn because that is just pathetic.

I think this is wrong but we are all only speculating.

The big issue is with himself - he is angry that he is not earning more money, he is angry at himself. Fortunately he is projecting this anger onto her. He probably is quite happy your so successful - this is all to do with him and not much to do with you. Can take a bit of therapy to understand this

mirrorwall14

This really isn't normal behaviour OP. We started out with me earning way more than my OH and now he earns signficantly more than me (1/3) and that gap will continue to increase. Neither of us resented each other. We've joked about it at times, cut our cloth to suit us and if one was/is making more then we save/pay correspondingly. I am delighted that he gets paid appropriately, he works bloody hard for it. I love my job and yes I may earn less and it's stressful too but I don't resent him and I certainly wouldn't belittle his work

monflat

Just to add if you do plan on getting married and having children there is an inbuilt urge for a man to provide for his family

If you are having issues now throw a child or two into the stress of married life and then he will surely be a different person.

Would you consider him aer way tight with his money???

ted1

irishguy1983 wrote: »

As a general question how does it work when one person earns a lot more than the other??

Tis kind of awkward really I suppose....

What happens when they go away on holidays? Say 1 person wants to hit up a 5 star hotel and the other person can only afford an average 3 star? Happened to me a while back - was seeing a girl I knew earned a lot more and we were only seeing each other for a small while (about 3 months) but I got very anxious about the future and how things like that would work...

You change "I" to "we"

We can/ can't afford it. Pool your cash

irishguy1983

ted1 wrote: »

You change "I" to "we"

We can/ can't afford it. Pool your cash

I hear ya but I think most blokes might feel a bit insecure if they were maybe stopping their lady from staying in a 5 star hotel due to him lacking cash.

I hear what your saying but that is in ideal world

lazybones32

irishguy1983 wrote: »

I don't think it is as easy as that - look at this thread for example

When there is a serious money difference I can see how it would cause difficulties - I understand two mature adults should talk it out but life ain't as simple as that - again hence the thread

I disagree. The method is really that simple. Now, retaining control of emotions so that the topic doesn't descend into name-calling or just a shouting match is a different thing. It's called being adult and as best we try, we all fail at times...

Simple never means easy but no need to complicate matters by constructing elaborate means to help the partner reach conclusion.

Stheno

irishguy1983 wrote: »

As a general question how does it work when one person earns a lot more than the other??

Tis kind of awkward really I suppose....

What happens when they go away on holidays? Say 1 person wants to hit up a 5 star hotel and the other person can only afford an average 3 star? Happened to me a while back - was seeing a girl I knew earned a lot more and we were only seeing each other for a small while (about 3 months) but I got very anxious about the future and how things like that would work...

irishguy1983 wrote: »

I don't think it is as easy as that - look at this thread for example

When there is a serious money difference I can see how it would cause difficulties - I understand two mature adults should talk it out but life ain't as simple as that - again hence the thread

irishguy1983 wrote: »

I hear ya but I think most blokes might feel a bit insecure if they were maybe stopping their lady from staying in a 5 star hotel due to him lacking cash.

I hear what your saying but that is in ideal world

I earn quite a lot more than what my partner earns. He recognises that as a result of a lot of hard work on my part, I've moved a fair bit up the career ladder and tbh admires it. It's not how his life has worked out, but we have a good life together, with long term plans.

It's even more complicated as he has children from a former relationship so has obligations there. I also have obligations from a previous relationship

On day to day stuff, we tend to divvy things up, bills wise, they get split proportionately.

Now I'm not one for fancy stuff, we once went to stay in a five star hotel and both hated it.

For holidays, I'll generally announce that we are going to x,y,z, and I'll foot most of the bill as I've chosen it. He will chip in for petrol, meals etc. Often times the holiday is an xmas/birthday gift to him

Anyone who knows us wouldn't believe the salary difference as we essentially live as a couple and where the money is coming from is irrelevant.

As the higher earner, I've not often felt annoyed at being so. Usually if I am, it's when we are not getting on, which to be fair is not often.

And I don't think I have ever put him in a situation where he has worried whether or not he can afford it, I'm in the fortunate situation that I can buy most stuff that I want, so when it comes to present buying, I'm a cow to buy for, we've reached a compromise now where for occasions (birthdays/Christmas) I will call out explicitly that I want something, e.g. for my next birthday I have specified a must have gift in his budget, and he then chooses to add in something if he wishes.

I want to go to a very expensive restaurant for my birthday, and I'll foot the bill for that, my OH doesn't even like that type of food, and will go for something like a steak, but knows a. I love it, and b. it's a treat for us both, so that's that sorted.

If you can talk about it, it's not a massive issue to get over.

I'd prefer to live as I do, with a partner who supports me, and is there for me when I need him, than to worry that he earns less than I.

@ OP, sounds like your OH has champagne style plans on a beer budget, and is expecting you to absorb the difference.

irishguy1983

lazybones32 wrote: »

I disagree. The method is really that simple. Now, retaining control of emotions so that the topic doesn't descend into name-calling or just a shouting match is a different thing. It's called being adult and as best we try, we all fail at times...

Simple never means easy but no need to complicate matters by constructing elaborate means to help the partner reach conclusion.

OK - maybe that is a better way of putting it - tis simple but not easy

Stheno

irishguy1983 wrote: »

OK - maybe that is a better way of putting it - tis simple but not easy

It actually is easy, once each party takes the other's perspective into account.

I might spend €500 on frivolities my OH couldn't afford one month as he might see it, but at the end of the day, it's my money, I've met my financial obligations for the month, we're clothed, fed, and housed, so it's fine by him.

Equally, he might find himself with a financial outlay he struggles with, I will step in to help him out, he'll pay it back as he can.

For the most part, the longer we are together, the less of an issue it has been.

It's been the same since the start of our relationship tbh.

And it's not all about money, this weekend my OH took four hours out of his time to do something for me, that was neither urgent, nor necessary, but instead a really nice thing to do. I'm still smiling now just thinking of his generosity in offering to do what he did, the pleasure he brought me as a result of doing so, and I'll remember that far more than paying for some holiday.

Equally when it comes to gifts, he has the ability to make me melt, there are times I remember for the sheer thoughtfulness of the gift, that make it special, kinda like him going for that meal, he invests a lot of time in non financial areas that make me adore him.

mylefttesticle

irishguy1983 wrote: »

I don't think it is as easy as that - look at this thread for example

When there is a serious money difference I can see how it would cause difficulties - I understand two mature adults should talk it out but life ain't as simple as that - again hence the thread

Its one thread and one example, yes people fight over money or have difficulties over it but they are usually able to sit down and discuss it and come to an agreement otherwise no relationship would survive and it is as easy as that. What does not work is saying nothing to someone your going out with and then relationship fails because of it.

mylefttesticle

irishguy1983 wrote: »

I think this is wrong but we are all only speculating.

The big issue is with himself - he is angry that he is not earning more money, he is angry at himself. Fortunately he is projecting this anger onto her. He probably is quite happy your so successful - this is all to do with him and not much to do with you. Can take a bit of therapy to understand this

He wishes he had gone for her job, imagine what he would be earning now? as in he is far superior to her and if he had taken the opportunity she has taken he would be much better at it than her. Do you think that is someone who does not have an issue with another person? What kind of partner puts down the achievement of someone they proclaim to love? by basically saying if I did it I could do it better, be more advanced and be better paid, They are basically saying they are much better than that person without actually having achieved anything to back up their notions.


As I said he see's his own failings through her actions and achievements and that is not the actions of a person who is supposed to love someone enough to marry them. It will become worse and it will become toxic unless its dealt with now.

This partner of course could be a nice guy who just lost his way a little and see's now how he should have done things differently but honestly its no way to treat someone who wants the best for you anyway, He should be proud and delighted his fiancé had the intelligence, guile, get up & go attitude and all the other things that he took for granted, If my partner earned 100,000 a year because she worked her hole of to achieve that I would be proud and delighted for her and that is what it really boils down too & no you don't need therapy for that its called good old fashioned good will.

LegacyUser

Thanks again for all the input.

I think the situation is a little more complicated than splitting everything 50/50 or 75/25. One other thing which causes conflict is his complete inability to hang on to his wages for the duration of the month. We are both paid monthly and as I noted earlier his contribution toward living expenses is transferred in to my account on the last day of every month as the bills come out at all different times and he is completely unable to make his salary last.

He earns 43k per year so it's not too bad a wage, he pays 600 a month toward rent (which isn't half) he then transfers €150 for living costs - this is meant to cover food, toilet paper, washing powder, his mobile phone, TV, Wifi, heating, power, rubbish.....which it doesn't. The reason he contributes so little is because he just cannot budget.

By the 14th of the month he will be down to his last €200 and he'll stretch this but by the 20th he is flat out broke - so, if we want to do anything like go for a nice lunch or meet friends - I end up forking out. I have gone out without him (to try and get him to fix this) but I still have to give him money for lunch and put petrol in his car.

So, I think part of his issue is that he see's himself as dependent on me financially and I know 43k isn't loads but he honestly has very few expenses, besides the €750 I have mentioned he pays €140 on a hire purchase car payment at the start of the month too so he still has a disposable income of €1800 or something. I'm not sure what he spends it on, online games or something.

I know he feels bad about depending on me financially and having to put his hand out so sometimes I wonder if him criticising me for earning more than him is something he does to make himself feel better about it. I do sometimes ask him to make a better effort to budget and that is a lot of the time what kicks off the arguments about how I earn so much and he should be earning more.

He is paid tomorrow so I'm going to initiate a chat about budgeting which will hopefully open the door for us to chat about his resentment towards what I earn

pookie82

anysolutionsunreg wrote: »

Thanks again for all the input.

I think the situation is a little more complicated than splitting everything 50/50 or 75/25. One other thing which causes conflict is his complete inability to hang on to his wages for the duration of the month. We are both paid monthly and as I noted earlier his contribution toward living expenses is transferred in to my account on the last day of every month as the bills come out at all different times and he is completely unable to make his salary last.

He earns 43k per year so it's not too bad a wage, he pays 600 a month toward rent (which isn't half) he then transfers €150 for living costs - this is meant to cover food, toilet paper, washing powder, his mobile phone, TV, Wifi, heating, power, rubbish.....which it doesn't. The reason he contributes so little is because he just cannot budget.

By the 14th of the month he will be down to his last €200 and he'll stretch this but by the 20th he is flat out broke - so, if we want to do anything like go for a nice lunch or meet friends - I end up forking out. I have gone out without him (to try and get him to fix this) but I still have to give him money for lunch and put petrol in his car.

So, I think part of his issue is that he see's himself as dependent on me financially and I know 43k isn't loads but he honestly has very few expenses, besides the €750 I have mentioned he pays €140 on a hire purchase car payment at the start of the month too so he still has a disposable income of €1800 or something. I'm not sure what he spends it on, online games or something.

I know he feels bad about depending on me financially and having to put his hand out so sometimes I wonder if him criticising me for earning more than him is something he does to make himself feel better about it. I do sometimes ask him to make a better effort to budget and that is a lot of the time what kicks off the arguments about how I earn so much and he should be earning more.

He is paid tomorrow so I'm going to initiate a chat about budgeting which will hopefully open the door for us to chat about his resentment towards what I earn

There's no easy way to say this really... You're being had. If he felt bad about financially depending on you he wouldn't be ... it's that simple. He'd cut back on his "gaming" spending and actually contribute towards what's needed to run a household.

I think you're kidding yourself a little here... He's by no means on the breadline. Most adults survive on a lot less a month than he takes home and manage to pay all of their bills AND have a social life without relying on anyone else for a cent. You're giving someone who earns 43K a year lunch money?!

He's behaving like this because you're letting him, it's that simple. He's down to his last penny every month because he knows he has a financial cushion. Until you remove that, he won't change.

res ipsa

What does he bring to the table? Clearly not money or good attitude.
Why are you with him?

December2012

So if he makes 43k gross that's roughly €2,600 per month net.

600 for rent
150 for bills (ridiculous - has he ever seen a bill? Gone grocery shopping?)
140 car
Is 900 in total

Leaving him 1700 thereabouts.

And you've no idea where this goes?

When you say online gaming do you mean gambling?

My observations are
1. He has no idea what his bills actually cost
2. He has no idea what his bills SHOULD cost
3. He needs to allocate proper amount of money for food.
4. He should be saving at least €500 per month.
5. He should budget at least €100 per month for his car, petrol, tax, nct, servicing.
6. A proper and realistic view of where he is spending his money will show where he can save and where he can spend.
7. Can you afford the wedding you and he thought you were going to have? How?


What I would do
1. Show him all the monthly bills and decide who is responsible for what? You each should pay for your own clothing, fashion, grooming.
2. Decide how much of a good budget you need for household food.
3. Estimate how much you will need as a couple for household / shared bills.
When you have a figure, open a joint account from which all household bills get paid. Each go you agree to put in the same percentage of your salary as each other - not amount. Eg, each of you put in 50% of your net wages.

4. Open a savings account for your wedding / future. Each if you put in the same percentage, eg 10% (ideally more but this depends on how much you can trust him).

5. Keep the rest in your own accounts as your own money.


you must bring this up with him. The context of saving for the wedding is the appropriate "cover". You must also see what he's spending his money on if it's gambling.

Calmsurrender

"The reason he contributes so little is because he just cannot budget."

Set up a joint account for bills.
He sets up a dd for bills, rent, groceries for after payday . If the money is gone he cant blow it.
You can pay for extra luxuries then. Or set up a savings account (or up the amount of savings you are putting away) - say its for the wedding - and cut spending for a bit until he gets used to the idea of managing money.
He's blowing all his money coz he can.

strandroad

Sounds like an immature gambler with notions who is constantly putting you down to bring you down to his level... Why are you even with him? Apart from the fact that he needs someone to give him money for his lunch of course. He sounds like a joke!

How do you even expect to marry/start a family with someone like him? You'll pay for everything and he'll keep giving out to you?

Sadly yoy can't make anyone grow up or start to appreciate you, he needs to want it himself.

Addle

Have you seen his payslip?
I earn around the same amount gross as him (thought my pay was decent enough!) and my net pay is a lot less than you seem to think it should be.

strandroad

Addle wrote: »

Have you seen his payslip?
I earn around the same amount gross as him (thought my pay was decent enough!) and my net pay is a lot less than you seem to think it should be.

It should be €2626 according to 2014 budget calculator.

Twas Not

pookie82 wrote: »

There's no easy way to say this really... You're being had. If he felt bad about financially depending on you he wouldn't be ... it's that simple. He'd cut back on his "gaming" spending and actually contribute towards what's needed to run a household.

I think you're kidding yourself a little here... He's by no means on the breadline. Most adults survive on a lot less a month than he takes home and manage to pay all of their bills AND have a social life without relying on anyone else for a cent. You're giving someone who earns 43K a year lunch money?!

He's behaving like this because you're letting him, it's that simple. He's down to his last penny every month because he knows he has a financial cushion. Until you remove that, he won't change.

That's truly pathetic alright. Giving an adult earning 43k lunch money ! My god ! You're in for a rough ride OP with wedding costs and kids (down the line) if you stick with this guy....