Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread IV

aquane69

New second row

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/20927.php#.VcG-bflVhBd

hendo12

hendo12 wrote: »

Who are Munster bringing in at 2nd row

aquane69 wrote: »

New second row

http://www.munsterrugby.ie/news/20927.php#.VcG-bflVhBd

That's a very good signing imo, seasoned pro that's outside the national squad.

He was number 5 on the potentials list from balls.ie

and apparently who Toulon were going to sign if they couldn't get POC

thomond2006

I thought that move was dead in the water. Chisholm was back training with Bayonne after he had a go at them on his Instagram. Anyway it's a brilliant signing considering who could have been available. He's very experienced, was a leader in a poor Bayonne team and played a huge amount of rugby last season. It creates a lot of competition in the lock position and Chisholm should be good to go immediately since he's been training.

HOOKERS

Mike Sherry 2015
Duncan Casey 2016
Niall Scannell 2017
Kevin O'Byrne 2016
Eusebio Guinazu 2015

PROPS

James Cronin 2016
Dave Kilcoyne 2017
Peter McCabe undisclosed

BJ Botha January 2016
Stephen Archer 2018
John Ryan 2016

Niall Horan Year 3
Rory Burke Year 3
Brian Scott Year 2
Liam O'Connor Year 1
JP Phelan Year 1

LOCKS

Mark Chisholm 2017 - ARRIVING
Donnacha Ryan 2017
Donncha O'Callaghan 2016
Dave Foley 2017
Billy Holland 2016

Sean McCarthy Year 3
John Madigan Year 3
Darragh Moloney Year 2

FLANKERS

Peter O'Mahony 2018
Dave O'Callaghan 2016
Tommy O'Donnell 2016
Shane Buckley 2016
Jordan Coghlan 2016 - ARRIVING

Conor Oliver Year 1
Ben Kilkenny Year 1

NUMBER EIGHTS

Robin Copeland 2016
CJ Stander 2016
Jack O'Donoghue 2018

SCRUM-HALVES

Conor Murray 2016
Cathal Sheridan 2016
Duncan Williams 2017
Tomas O'Leary 2017 - ARRIVING

Jack Cullen Year 3
Ryan Foley Year 2

FLY-HALVES

Ian Keatley 2017
Tyler Bleyendall 2017
Johnny Holland 2017

Gearoid Lyons Year 2
Tómas Quinlan Year 1

CENTRES

Cian Bohane 2017
Denis Hurley 2016
Francis Saili 2017 - ARRIVING
Matt D'Arcy January 2016 - ARRIVING

Rory Scannell Year 3
Dan Goggin Year 2
Ned Hodson Year 1

WINGERS

Simon Zebo 2016
Keith Earls 2016
Gerhard Van Den Heever 2016
Andrew Conway 2016
Ronan O'Mahony 2017
Darren Sweetnam 2017

Alex Wootton Year 3
Greg O'Shea Year 3
Steven McMahon Year 1

FULLBACKS

Felix Jones 2017

David Johnston Year 3
Stephen Fitzgerald Year 2

IN:
Peter McCabe (Dolphin)
Jordan Coghlan (Leinster)
Mark Chisholm (Bayonne)
Jack O'Donoghue (promoted from academy)
Tómas O'Leary (London Irish)
Matt D'Arcy (Clontarf)
Francis Saili (Blues)
Darren Sweetnam (promoted from academy)

OUT:
Damien Varley (retired)
Alan Cotter (Aix-en-Provence)
Paul O'Connell (Toulon)
Sean Dougall (Pau)
Paddy Butler (Pau)
Barry O'Mahony (retired)
JJ Hanrahan (Northampton Saints)
Ivan Dineen (tbc)
Andrew Smith (tbc)
Johne Murphy (tbc)
Luke O'Dea (Lille)

total former

That's a fantastic signing. As thomond says, it didn't look like it was happening so a two year deal is great.

Bad news for Foley.

thomond2006

total former wrote: »

That's a fantastic signing. As thomond says, it didn't look like it was happening so a two year deal is great.

Bad news for Foley.

I'd say it's more bad news for Billy Holland. If they rotate them along with Chisholm, Ryan and Foley will still play a lot.

Holland and DOC have both a year left on their deals and might be making way for McCarthy and/or Madigan from the academy.

phog

Great signing would hope he turns out more of a John Langford type signing for us.

razorblunt

phog wrote: »

Great signing would hope he turns out more of a John Langford type signing for us.

I was thinking this exact thing, I hope he's more of a Langford than a Pusey!

phog

Paul Warwick thinks its a great signing for us.

Paul (@paulmwarwick) tweeted at 9:31 AM on Wed, Aug 05, 2015:
@Munsterrugby Great signing guys! Mark is a close friend of mine from school & will be a huge asset to the club!

thomond2006

In hindsight, was it the right decision to give DOC a two year deal? He was needed last season due to injuries to Foley, Ryan and John Madigan but I'm not sure about this season, particularly now that Chisholm has signed.

total former

thomond2006 wrote: »

I'd say it's more bad news for Billy Holland. If they rotate them along with Chisholm, Ryan and Foley will still play a lot.

Holland and DOC have both a year left on their deals and might be making way for McCarthy and/or Madigan from the academy.

DOC was always going to go at the end of this season but Holland surely has a couple of years left in him?

It's bad news for Foley in that he's going from being first choice and HC starter last season to (probably) the first backup this season. He'll still play a lot, particularly if Ryan gets back into the Ireland fold, but it's a knock.

phog

total former wrote: »

DOC was always going to go at the end of this season but Holland surely has a couple of years left in him?

It's bad news for Foley in that he's going from being first choice and HC starter last season to (probably) the first backup this season. He'll still play a lot, particularly if Ryan gets back into the Ireland fold, but it's a knock.

Has anything changed for Foley really. If Paulie stayed Foley was probably still going to be 3rd choice anyway.

This way he gets to play/train with another international player it can only help him in the long run.

thomond2006

phog wrote: »

Has anything changed for Foley really. If Paulie stayed Foley was probably still going to be 3rd choice anyway.

This way he gets to play/train with another international player it can only help him in the long run.

Well the plan was for POC to be done at the end of 2016 and Chisholm will be here until 2017. So Foley will be 29 by the time Chisholm is out of contract. That said I'd agree with you more than disagree.

case885

thomond2006 wrote:

Well the plan was for POC to be done at the end of 2016 and Chisholm will be here until 2017. So Foley will be 29 by the time Chisholm is out of contract.

Who's to say Foley won't be a starting ahead of Chisholm by next season, he won't be a guaranteed starter unlike POC.

thomond2006

case885 wrote: »

Who's to say Foley won't be a starting ahead of Chisholm by next season, he won't be a guaranteed starter unlike POC.

Chisholm is a quality operator, he was always highly praised in his Bayonne days and the team around him were struggling. If RR is to be believed he was on 28k per month (336k per annum) and if Munster are paying a similar wage then I assume he's a starter (all other things being equal). A Ryan-Foley combination is certainly up to standard but with POC gone and Botha following shortly I think we need a wily veteran starting. In any case Munster now have three top quality locks to compete for the starting spots, two very capable backups in DOC and Holland and two highly rated academy players waiting in the wings.

So that leaves us with:

Botha (NIE - until January)
Chisholm (NIE)
Bleyendaal (NIE/project)
Saili (NIE)
GVDH (NIE/project)

Cookiemunster

thomond2006 wrote: »

So that leaves us with:

Botha (NIE - until January)
Chisholm (NIE)
Bleyendaal (NIE/project)
Saili (NIE/project)
GVDH (NIE/project)

Saili has 2 AB caps, so isn't a project.

The Lost Sheep

thomond2006 wrote: »

I'd say it's more bad news for Billy Holland. If they rotate them along with Chisholm, Ryan and Foley will still play a lot.

Holland and DOC have both a year left on their deals and might be making way for McCarthy and/or Madigan from the academy.

Don't see Holland making way for anyone for a while yet. Madigan needs to get his injury issues fixed. He played in some pre season games last season but has played very little B&I Cup nevermind pro12

jm08

thomond2006 wrote: »

Chisholm is a quality operator, he was always highly praised in his Bayonne days and the team around him were struggling. If RR is to be believed he was on 28k per month (336k per annum) and if Munster are paying a similar wage then I assume he's a starter (all other things being equal). A Ryan-Foley combination is certainly up to standard but with POC gone and Botha following shortly I think we need a wily veteran starting. In any case Munster now have three top quality locks to compete for the starting spots, two very capable backups in DOC and Holland and two highly rated academy players waiting in the wings.

So that leaves us with:

Botha (NIE - until January)
Chisholm (NIE)
Bleyendaal (NIE/project)
Saili (NIE)
GVDH (NIE/project)

That would be a very dangerous route for Munster to go down if they want to hang onto local players - picking on how much they cost. Munster had no problem dropping Jean de Villiers to the bench and he would have been on huge money!

Billy Holland had a great season last year and well worth his contract. When is he due back from his injury?

total former

thomond2006 wrote: »

Well the plan was for POC to be done at the end of 2016 and Chisholm will be here until 2017. So Foley will be 29 by the time Chisholm is out of contract. That said I'd agree with you more than disagree.

Yeah exactly. Foley has been learning from top level locks his entire career, now he needs game time in the big matches. Look how quickly Toner developed from solid Pro12 standard to nailed-on international starter when he got a clear run.

It's a great move for Munster anyway.

Fireball07

Based on last season's form, Foley would be ahead of Ryan. Foley was excellent when fit, one of our best performers.



Great signing to get Chisholm, it is slightly sad that after all these years, we've had to sign a foreign 2nd row. I can't think of a starting NIQ 2nd row since Langford. Let's hope Chisholm has as similiar an impression though.

phog

We need three quality locks, we had them with Ryan, Foley and Paulie. Chisholm replaces Paulie.

Where's the bad news?

thomond2006

phog wrote: »

We need three quality locks, we had them with Ryan, Foley and Paulie. Chisholm replaces Paulie.

Where's the bad news?

No bad news for Munster and nobody has said that. It increases competition for the locks currently there so I suppose bad news for them personally. Ask any player if they want another player signed in their position.

total former

Yep, great news for Munster and their fans. Bad news for Dave Foley.

case885

total former wrote:

Yep, great news for Munster and their fans. Bad news for Dave Foley.

Not really I'm sure he'll start plenty games during the season and will be happy to learn from an experienced player like Chisholm.

esterhayes

case885 wrote: »

Not really I'm sure he'll start plenty games during the season and will be happy to learn from an experienced player like Chisholm.

he has worked with a lot of experienced locks, what left is there to learn?

He needs gametime and a lot of it, if he is 3rd choice then it's not a good thing for Irish rugby or Dave Foley.

total former

case885 wrote: »

Not really I'm sure he'll start plenty games during the season and will be happy to learn from an experienced player like Chisholm.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=96494214&postcount=6529

and also

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=96493251&postcount=6521

phog

thomond2006 wrote: »

No bad news for Munster and nobody has said that. It increases competition for the locks currently there so I suppose bad news for them personally. Ask any player if they want another player signed in their position.

Terrible to have squads isn't it.

How is this signing any different for Foley than having Paulie stay on?

BTW, I'd be of the view competition for places is a good thing.

jm08

esterhayes wrote: »

he has worked with a lot of experienced locks, what left is there to learn?

He needs gametime and a lot of it, if he is 3rd choice then it's not a good thing for Irish rugby or Dave Foley.

It hasn't held back plenty of players who rotate for their clubs like Boss, Owen Reddan, Strauss, Cronin, McGrath etc.

It could also mean that he is needed because Foley & Ryan will be away a lot with Ireland.

Wang King

No downside to having Chisolm at Munster, brilliant signing and when his name was mentioned towards the end of this season past I thought it was all pie in the sky... Tasty squad this year!

esterhayes

phog wrote: »

Terrible to have squads isn't it.

How is this signing any different for Foley than having Paulie stay on?

BTW, I'd be of the view competition for places is a good thing.

apart from when competition prevents a homegrown players from developing by playing games.

again it's a good signing for Munster, it's not a good signing for Dave Foley.

thomond2006

phog wrote: »

Terrible to have squads isn't it.

How is this signing any different for Foley than having Paulie stay on?

BTW, I'd be of the view competition for places is a good thing.

What does Dave Foley care about squads? That's Munster's problem, not his. His primary concern is his own pitch time. Nobody has said it is bad news for Munster, nobody.

Dave Foley was in a situation before today where he was likely a starter. This signing means he has more of a challenge. It's hardly reaching to say that isn't great news for him. Will he still play a lot? Of course he will but if Chisholm wasn't in situ he would probably play more. Could Foley and Ryan play so well they relegate Chisholm to the bench? Of course they could.

As I've already said, POC was set to retire in 2016. Chisholm is on a two year deal. That's a difference for one.

Competition for places is great, but I'd say it's more great for the team and the management than the players. The players just want to get selected, the management want options.