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Munster Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread IV

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    #6542
    touts
    Registered Users Posts: 6,434 ✭✭✭touts


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    What does Dave Foley care about squads? That's Munster's problem, not his. His primary concern is his own pitch time. Nobody has said it is bad news for Munster, nobody.

    Dave Foley was in a situation before today where he was likely a starter. This signing means he has more of a challenge. It's hardly reaching to say that isn't great news for him. Will he still play a lot? Of course he will but if Chisholm wasn't in situ he would probably play more.

    Any player who gets in a sulk because he doesn't think he has the ability or potential to knock a 33 year old out of the team probably isn't the type of player Munster want anyway. Competition and challenge brings on the good players.


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    #6543
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    touts wrote: »
    Any player who gets in a sulk because he doesn't think he has the ability or potential to knock a 33 year old out of the team probably isn't the type of player Munster want anyway.
    It's not about sulking. We're simply saying that he has more of a challenge therefore it's not good news. I'm not even saying he won't be a starter, I don't know.
    Competition and challenge brings on the good players.
    I agree. But I'm sure if you ask most players they would prefer no competition than having competition while sitting on the bench! That's my point.

    Anyway I've helped dragged this into a pointless argument. Chisholm is a great signing who I'm sure will benefit the team in whatever role he's in, be it starter or bencher.


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    #6544
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Does anyone know when Holland, Foley and GVDH are back from injury?


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    #6545
    smiley_face
    Closed Accounts Posts: 469 ✭✭smiley_face


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    HOOKERS

    Mike Sherry 2015
    Duncan Casey 2016
    Niall Scannell 2017
    Kevin O'Byrne 2016
    Eusebio Guinazu 2015

    What's the news on Mike Sherry? Will he ever get a Munster contract again, or is it still undecided?
    Does anyone know if he has returned to train with the squad for pre-season?


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    #6546
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    smiley_face wrote: »
    What's the news on Mike Sherry? Will he ever get a Munster contract again, or is it still undecided?
    Does anyone know if he has returned to train with the squad for pre-season?
    He's training with the squad so he's obviously got some sort of deal. I've no idea what the deal is so that's why I've left it marked 2015. I'm pretty sure Guinazu is gone but nothing confirmed about a new club.


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    #6547
    Fireball07
    Registered Users Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭Fireball07


    If Dave Foley wants to play international for Ireland, he's going to have to be better than Ryan & Chisholm anyway. I have complete faith in him tbh.


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    #6548
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,831 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Some serious under rating of Dave Foley on here. Where is it written that he has no chance of getting into the starting 15 ahead of Ryan or Chisolm?


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    #6549
    total former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭total former


    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    Some serious under rating of Dave Foley on here. Where is it written that he has no chance of getting into the starting 15 ahead of Ryan or Chisolm?

    It's not written anywhere, it just makes his job a lot harder, that's all anyone has said. I'm not sure what the objection is.


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    #6550
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    Some serious under rating of Dave Foley on here. Where is it written that he has no chance of getting into the starting 15 ahead of Ryan or Chisolm?

    Nobody said that. See TF's post.


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    #6551
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,744 ✭✭✭✭phog


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    What does Dave Foley care about squads? That's Munster's problem, not his. His primary concern is his own pitch time. Nobody has said it is bad news for Munster, nobody.

    Dave Foley was in a situation before today where he was likely a starter. This signing means he has more of a challenge. It's hardly reaching to say that isn't great news for him. Will he still play a lot? Of course he will but if Chisholm wasn't in situ he would probably play more. Could Foley and Ryan play so well they relegate Chisholm to the bench? Of course they could.

    As I've already said, POC was set to retire in 2016. Chisholm is on a two year deal. That's a difference for one.

    Competition for places is great, but I'd say it's more great for the team and the management than the players. The players just want to get selected, the management want options.

    But why is this supposed to be bad news for Foley and only Foley?

    Again, he's in exactly the same situation as he was this time last year. I don't recall anyone stating how bad a situation it was for him back then.

    Munster make a signing and someone wants to find a negative, somewhere, anywhere.


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    #6552
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,744 ✭✭✭✭phog


    esterhayes wrote: »
    apart from when competition prevents a homegrown players from developing by playing games.

    again it's a good signing for Munster, it's not a good signing for Dave Foley.

    Yes, I mean he only had to worry about POC last year. No problem for him them. Why now?


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    #6553
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,831 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    total former wrote: »
    It's not written anywhere, it just makes his job a lot harder, that's all anyone has said. I'm not sure what the objection is.

    He's a professional sportsman. If he's good enough he'll be in the team ahead of Ryan or Chisholm. I don't see how this is bad for him, but not for Ryan.


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    #6554
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    phog wrote: »
    Yes, I mean he only had to worry about POC last year. No problem for him them. Why now?

    http://www.munsterrugby.ie/rugby/first_team_squad.php?player=5023&includeref=dynamic

    3 into 2 starting berths does not go evenly.


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    #6555
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,744 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Deleted User wrote: »
    http://www.munsterrugby.ie/rugby/first_team_squad.php?player=5023&includeref=dynamic

    3 into 2 starting berths does not go evenly.

    It never did. Not last year not next year.

    Why wasn't there this discussion last season when we had Paulie & Ryan and a younger DOC?


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    #6556
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    phog wrote: »
    But why is this supposed to be bad news for Foley and only Foley?

    Again, he's in exactly the same situation as he was this time last year. I don't recall anyone stating how bad a situation it was for him back then.

    Munster make a signing and someone wants to find a negative, somewhere, anywhere.

    It's not about finding a negative. It's about discussing all the implications. I don't agree that a signing can only be positive for everyone. It's as 'bad' for Foley as it is for Ryan, I didn't think I needed to spell that out tbf.


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    #6557
    esterhayes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 29 ✭esterhayes


    phog wrote: »
    It never did. Not last year not next year.

    Why wasn't there this discussion last season when we had Paulie & Ryan and a younger DOC?

    seriously? when POC left for Toulon, it meant Foley and Ryan were very likely to be starters, now with Chisolm that is reduced therefore it's bad news for both of them.


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    #6558
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,831 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    It's not about finding a negative. It's about discussing all the implications. I don't agree that a signing can only be positive for everyone. It's as 'bad' for Foley as it is for Ryan, I didn't think I needed to spell that out tbf.

    Now if that was actually what TF had said originally, then there would have been no argument.


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    #6559
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    phog wrote: »
    It never did. Not last year not next year.

    Why wasn't there this discussion last season when we had Paulie & Ryan and a younger DOC?

    Well Ryan was injured, and had been long term, and DOC had just finished a season where he'd benched for most if not all of it (behind Foley). And POC was an insta-starter so Foley was vying for a spot with an injured player and a player who he'd been ahead of for the entire season.

    The situation is totally different now, as Munster look to have more quality in the row with 3 players all vying for 2 spots without a huge amount between any of them.


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    #6560
    esterhayes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 29 ✭esterhayes


    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    Now if that was actually what TF had said originally, then there would have been no argument.

    Foley is more likely to lose out than Ryan, but this signing is bad news for all the locks at munster. Generally a signing at your position isn't a positive for a professional player especially if signing has more experience and is signed to replace a former starter.


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    #6561
    case885
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭case885


    esterhayes wrote:
    he has worked with a lot of experienced locks, what left is there to learn?

    esterhayes wrote:
    He needs gametime and a lot of it, if he is 3rd choice then it's not a good thing for Irish rugby or Dave Foley.


    How do you know he'll be 3rd choice?


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    #6562
    total former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭total former


    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    Now if that was actually what TF had said originally, then there would have been no argument.

    I think it's worse news for Foley because Ryan is an established starter for Munster (when everyone was fit) and is a candidate for World Cup selection with the national team. Foley is neither of these things so is it not logical to assume that he's more likely to lose out?

    But yeah, Ryan could well be the one missing out. Or Chisholm might not pan out and he could end up on the bench. These are less likely though.


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    #6563
    esterhayes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 29 ✭esterhayes


    case885 wrote: »
    How do you know he'll be 3rd choice?

    it's far more likely now than it was pre signing.

    did Munster sign Chisolm to sit on the bench? if so not a great way of using limited NIQ slots is it ?


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    #6564
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Fairest assumption to make is that all 3 will get considerable gametime tbh


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    #6565
    total former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭total former


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Fairest assumption to make is that all 3 will get considerable gametime tbh

    They will.

    But only two can start the big matches that matter most.


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    #6566
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    total former wrote: »
    I think it's worse news for Foley because Ryan is an established starter for Munster (when everyone was fit) and is a candidate for World Cup selection with the national team. Foley is neither of these things so is it not logical to assume that he's more likely to lose out?

    But yeah, Ryan could well be the one missing out. Or Chisholm might not pan out and he could end up on the bench. These are less likely though.
    Foley isn't a candidate because of injury. Given he played in the Autumn it's fair to say he would have been a candidate.


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    #6567
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,744 ✭✭✭✭phog


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    It's not about finding a negative. It's about discussing all the implications. I don't agree that a signing can only be positive for everyone. It's as 'bad' for Foley as it is for Ryan, I didn't think I needed to spell that out tbf.
    esterhayes wrote: »
    seriously? when POC left for Toulon, it meant Foley and Ryan were very likely to be starters, now with Chisolm that is reduced therefore it's bad news for both of them.

    So this bad news is spreading. Now it's bad news for Ryan and Foley. I hope they can cope with it.

    Should someone ask Billy Holland how he feels about it too?
    Deleted User wrote: »
    Well Ryan was injured, and had been long term, and DOC had just finished a season where he'd benched for most if not all of it (behind Foley). And POC was an insta-starter so Foley was vying for a spot with an injured player and a player who he'd been ahead of for the entire season.

    The situation is totally different now, as Munster look to have more quality in the row with 3 players all vying for 2 spots without a huge amount between any of them.

    Rotation


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    #6568
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    phog wrote: »
    So this bad news is spreading. Now it's bad news for Ryan and Foley. I hope they can cope with it.

    Should someone ask Billy Holland how he feels about it too?

    What's the point of sarcastic replies? Nobody else is acting like this.

    I don't see Billy Holland as a candidate to be a starter in the same sense as Ryan, Foley and Chisholm. Aside from away to Racing in 2012 I don't believe Holland has ever started a European game. Chisholm pushes at least some players down the pecking order, does that need to be said?


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    #6569
    esterhayes
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 29 ✭esterhayes


    phog wrote: »
    So this bad news is spreading. Now it's bad news for Ryan and Foley. I hope they can cope with it.

    Should someone ask Billy Holland how he feels about it too?

    A signing at your position isn't a positive for a professional player especially if signing has more experience and is signed to replace a former starter.

    I'm sure all the second rows at Munster were jumping with joy at this news


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    #6570
    case885
    Registered Users Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭case885


    esterhayes wrote:
    did Munster sign Chisolm to sit on the bench? if so not a great way of using limited NIQ slots is it ?

    So just because he's a new signing he has to start? That's not how it works, the 2 best performing locks will start and you've no evidence to say Chisholm will be one of them.


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    #6571
    total former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,784 ✭✭✭total former


    phog wrote: »
    So this bad news is spreading. Now it's bad news for Ryan and Foley. I hope they can cope with it.

    Should someone ask Billy Holland how he feels about it too?

    Billy Holland has never had any expectation of being an international.


This discussion has been closed.
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