General Rugby Discussion

Clearlier

.ak wrote: »

Yes. But has Shane Williams ever played hooker in an emergency, twice, before? I don't think so.

.ak>Shane Williams.

Williams is about 12.5 stone so quite a bit bigger. Stringer OTOH is only 11.5 stone which allowing for inflation in reported figures for small rugby players is probably about 10 stone. Are you coming to Leinster next season ak/Peter?

.ak

Neither of those players are the same sort of calibre as I am.

... so long as there's no follow up questions.

irishbucsfan

Clearlier wrote: »

Williams is about 12.5 stone so quite a bit bigger. Stringer OTOH is only 11.5 stone which allowing for inflation in reported figures for small rugby players is probably about 10 stone. Are you coming to Leinster next season ak/Peter?

Am I think only person picturing Stringer playing hooker now?

razorblunt

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Am I think only person picturing Stringer playing hooker now?

Nope

molloyjh

razorblunt wrote: »

Nope

Ah top posting pics of ak training. It's not fair on the guy....

EDIT: Also, I know you're glass ak, but what the f*** happened to your legs!?

I have a lot on this weekend so need to DVR some matches and try and align eating times with others. In any case, I did up a quick table for the weekends matches. Am sure this is available on-line anyway but here ye go:

Day Tourn Match Time Chan
Fri Pro12 Osp v Lein 19:35 TG4
Fri Pro12 Ulst v Scar 19:35 TBC
Sat 6N Sco v Ita 14:30 RTE
Sat 6N Fra v Wal 17:00 RTE
Sat Pro12 Mun v Gla 19:15 SKY
Sun 6N Irl v Eng 15:00 RTE
Sun Pro12 Con v Trev 17:15 TG4

.ak

molloyjh wrote: »

Ah top posting pics of ak training. It's not fair on the guy....

EDIT: Also, I know you're glass ak, but what the f*** happened to your legs!?

I'm actually sure that pic was taken of cloneslad in a scrum.

thomond2006

Deleted User wrote: »

I have a lot on this weekend so need to DVR some matches and try and align eating times with others. In any case, I did up a quick table for the weekends matches. Am sure this is available on-line anyway but here ye go:

Day Tourn Match Time Chan
Fri Pro12 Osp v Lein 19:35 TG4
Fri Pro12 Ulst v Scar 19:35 TBC
Sat 6N Sco v Ita 14:30 RTE
Sat 6N Fra v Wal 17:00 RTE
Sat Pro12 Mun v Gla 19:15 SKY
Sun 6N Irl v Eng 15:00 RTE
Sun Pro12 Con v Trev 17:15 TG4

Ireland U20s match is on Friday as well! Hoping to get down there if the weather allows.

bilston

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31641675

Some interesting ideas here. Interesting point by COS about the AP not starting until October. I believe the Pro 12 starts as usual. Will that be an advantage or disadvantage come the Champions Cup???

sydneybound

Not surprised to read about this it's been coming for a while.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/premiership/11438598/English-Aviva-Premiership-clubs-in-new-plan-to-end-relegation.html

Bristol and Worcester will be joined by Yorkshire Carnegie to make a 14 team league. The LV cup may well be dropped as a result to make way for the extra couple of games and they'll still be able to concentrate on Europe.

The RFU will be extremely keen to get Leeds in the Prem as they have a very successful academy up there and there are keen to get another northern club in the top tier to complement Sale and Newcastle.

There'll be some great west country battles between Bath, Bristol, Exeter, Worcester and Gloucester.

Northampton, Leicester and Coventry (Wasps) is another great cluster of nearby clubs bringing exciting fixtures.

London will still be well represented with Harlequins, London Irish and Saracens. Then the northern clubs of Sale, Yorkshire Carneige (Leeds) and Newcastle will give the league a good geographical spread which the RFU so desperately want and need.

All in all I think this is exciting news for the league. Some will obviously be against the end of relegation but with all clubs getting equal funding the chances of a London Welsh like scenario will decrease.

I expect this to be pushed through and watch out the next BT or Sky deal for the Prem for the start of the 2016/17 season will be a very big one indeed.

thomond2006

sydneybound wrote: »

Not surprised to read about this it's been coming for a while.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/premiership/11438598/English-Aviva-Premiership-clubs-in-new-plan-to-end-relegation.html

Bristol and Worcester will be joined by Yorkshire Carnegie to make a 14 team league. The LV cup may well be dropped as a result to make way for the extra couple of games and they'll still be able to concentrate on Europe.

The RFU will be extremely keen to get Leeds in the Prem as they have a very successful academy up there and there are keen to get another northern club in the top tier to complement Sale and Newcastle.

There'll be some great west country battles between Bath, Bristol, Exeter, Worcester and Gloucester.

Northampton, Leicester and Coventry (Wasps) is another great cluster of nearby clubs bringing exciting fixtures.

London will still be well represented with Harlequins, London Irish and Saracens. Then the northern clubs of Sale, Yorkshire Carneige (Leeds) and Newcastle will give the league a good geographical spread which the RFU so desperately want and need.

All in all I think this is exciting news for the league. Some will obviously be against the end of relegation but with all clubs getting equal funding the chances of a London Welsh like scenario will decrease.

I expect this to be pushed through and watch out the next BT or Sky deal for rugby for the start of the 2016/17 season will be a very big one indeed.

This makes PRL's pontificating about the Pro12 resting players and no promotion/relegation all the more hilarious.

Why don't they just scrap the Championship playoffs and have the league winner promoted. End the season in March/early April and that gives the promoted club time to bring in players. All London Welsh had left to pick from was a bunch of journeyman.

I thought relegation was the making of a league?

And detaching the top tier from the remainder of the clubs seems a very progressive ideal of course.

:rolleyes:

(time for another megathread? I'll PM ibf :pac:)

Clearlier

thomond2006 wrote: »

This makes PRL's pontificating about the Pro12 resting players and no promotion/relegation all the more hilarious.

Why don't they just scrap the Championship playoffs and have the league winner promoted. End the season in March/early April and that gives the promoted club time to bring in players. All London Welsh had left to pick from was a bunch of journeyman.

Well, obviously the whole thing was all about money but to be slightly fair to them I don't recall them caring too much about relegation or otherwise, what they claimed not to like was the qualification process for Europe. They wanted (and managed) to change the view of entry into the competition from a country based one to a league based one, reducing the spots available to teams from Italy, Scotland, Wales and Ireland. To jump back a moment though it was and is all about the money. It will take a few years yet but professional rugby in the northern hemisphere will be dominated by French and English clubs. It was always likely to happen given the potential resources available to English and French clubs, the changes in Europe just helped smooth the path a bit.

I was surprised to read that the team promoted from the championship gets less money than the teams already in the Premiership. It seems remarkably inequitable, how do they justify that? If anything given their disadvantages I thought that there would have been a case for giving them extra money in an attempt to level the playing field a bit.

irishbucsfan

Deleted User wrote: »

I thought relegation was the making of a league?

And detaching the top tier from the remainder of the clubs seems a very progressive ideal of course.

:rolleyes:

(time for another megathread? I'll PM ibf :pac:)

This is one of those things that people claim is said, but isn't really said very often. Although I wouldn't be surprised if Austin Healy and that ilk come out with it.

Relegation does add to the competitiveness of a league further down the table, but it's not the only way to do that. The point is not that relegation is necessary (I mean it's not an option at all for the Pro 12 or Super XV) but that there needs to be something to play for throughout the league down to last place.

One of the weird benefits of the guarrantee of the Italian qualification spot in the Pro 12 is actually a pretty decent replacement for relegation, because Treviso and Zebre are fighting the equivalent of a relegation battle in their attempts to secure European qualification. And actually the Pro 12 benefits from this because there is no chance of a LW replacing either. The Pro 12 is actually very strong in terms of extending competition throughout the table now, the only "boring" place in the table now might be 8th-10th.. In fact, I think if the Pro 12 playoffs were 6 places instead of 4 the Pro 12 would actually have more to play for outside the top 4 than the Premiership.

For that same reason I think the Premiership's decision to push to kill relegation is a massive mistake, and they're going to live to regret it. Rather than killing relegation they should expand the league and try to get the RFU to actually enforce the licensing system that London Welsh threw a hissy fit about a couple of years ago. But unfortunately it seems the lawyers may not allow that to happen. The Premiership is going to be a very boring place outside the top 6/7 when this change is pushed through.

Teferi

Would anyone like to quote the article in question? My limit for viewing is up apparently.

Swiwi.

Teferi wrote: »

Would anyone like to quote the article in question? My limit for viewing is up apparently.

Switch to private browser mode. I'm still indebted to Podge for that tip.

errlloyd

This is full on the weakest pay wall since Hadrian build that two foot stone thing across scotland. Since people started talking about that paywall I've been loading articles left right and centre trying to hit it, and nothing. It's based on cookies, so I guess my browser is just not saving Irishtimes cookies so I never have to pay.

armchaircoach

Hi guys, quick question. There was a perpetual trophy that Ireland won during the autumn internals. It passes to the team that beats the last holder. What was it called again? Need it for an esoteric rugby quiz

The Lost Sheep

armchaircoach wrote: »

Hi guys, quick question. There was a perpetual trophy that Ireland won during the autumn internals. It passes to the team that beats the last holder. What was it called again? Need it for an esoteric rugby quiz

Raeburn Shield I think

armchaircoach

Cheers

bilston

irishbucsfan wrote: »

This is one of those things that people claim is said, but isn't really said very often. Although I wouldn't be surprised if Austin Healy and that ilk come out with it.

Relegation does add to the competitiveness of a league further down the table, but it's not the only way to do that. The point is not that relegation is necessary (I mean it's not an option at all for the Pro 12 or Super XV) but that there needs to be something to play for throughout the league down to last place.

One of the weird benefits of the guarrantee of the Italian qualification spot in the Pro 12 is actually a pretty decent replacement for relegation, because Treviso and Zebre are fighting the equivalent of a relegation battle in their attempts to secure European qualification. And actually the Pro 12 benefits from this because there is no chance of a LW replacing either. The Pro 12 is actually very strong in terms of extending competition throughout the table now, the only "boring" place in the table now might be 8th-10th.. In fact, I think if the Pro 12 playoffs were 6 places instead of 4 the Pro 12 would actually have more to play for outside the top 4 than the Premiership.

For that same reason I think the Premiership's decision to push to kill relegation is a massive mistake, and they're going to live to regret it. Rather than killing relegation they should expand the league and try to get the RFU to actually enforce the licensing system that London Welsh threw a hissy fit about a couple of years ago. But unfortunately it seems the lawyers may not allow that to happen. The Premiership is going to be a very boring place outside the top 6/7 when this change is pushed through.

Interesting point about expanding the Pro 12 play offs. However I'm not sure it is needed at the moment, the beauty of this season is that there are 5 teams that are far and away ahead of everyone else and yet so close together in the league that literally any four could make the play offs and any one of that five could miss out. And that's before you start talking about home semi finals. Then there is the race for Europe to keep the rest interested and you make a great point about the Italian teams.

While the level of quality is sometimes dubious you can't complain about the competitiveness of the Pro 12 this year.

sydneybound

To get back to the Aviva Prem I think this will actually be a good thing for the league. The Championship clubs know they cannot compete when their promoted due to a lack of funding.

I see all the media outlets are picking up the story now.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/premiership/11438559/Promotion-and-relegation-integral-part-of-English-rugby-forget-about-the-Exeters-if-you-pull-up-the-trapdoor.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/11438755/English-rugbys-promotion-and-relegation-controversy-The-key-questions-answered.html

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31657245

sydneybound

sydneybound wrote: »

To get back to the Aviva Prem I think this will actually be a good thing for the league. The Championship clubs know they cannot compete when their promoted due to a lack of funding.

I see all the media outlets are picking up the story now.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/premiership/11438559/Promotion-and-relegation-integral-part-of-English-rugby-forget-about-the-Exeters-if-you-pull-up-the-trapdoor.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/11438755/English-rugbys-promotion-and-relegation-controversy-The-key-questions-answered.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/31657245

This bit is correct and is a problem.

I'm not sure that the suggestion is a solution though.

I also don't believe that the RFU will permit it. Consider if the Premiership (soccer) asked the FA to ringfence the tournament. They'd be told to get ****ed.

thomond2006

London Welsh just let Piri Weepu go with immediate effect to Wasps for the rest of the season.

When Weepu to Oyonnax was first rumoured Rugbyrama suggested LW's finances were in dire straits. It looks like it's true.

timaru89

Looks like Georgia will overtake Italy this weekend in the world rankings if they beat Spain. I presume that would be the first time since the rankings were introduced?

sydneybound

Deleted User wrote: »

I also don't believe that the RFU will permit it. Consider if the Premiership (soccer) asked the FA to ringfence the tournament. They'd be told to get ****ed.

Provided Leeds are included in the 14 teams, they will. You'll just have to trust me on that

Leeds have a few rich backers happy to put money into the club
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/weekend-poll-carnegie-announce-2m-investment-which-they-hope-will-help-fund-return-to-premiership-1-7022350

At the end of the day money talks and with two extra rounds of games for BT or Sky Sports the TV deal will in all likelihood be massive in comparison to their current deal.

sydneybound

sydneybound wrote: »

Provided Leeds are included in the 14 teams, they will. You'll just have to trust me on that

Leeds have a few rich backers happy to put money into the club
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/weekend-poll-carnegie-announce-2m-investment-which-they-hope-will-help-fund-return-to-premiership-1-7022350

At the end of the day money talks and with two extra rounds of games for BT or Sky Sports the TV deal will in all likelihood be massive in comparison to their current deal.

The RFU is the caretaker of Rugby in England. Not professional rugby, Rugby. Their mandate is to promote and grow the game.

I don't think they'd tolerate a disconnect of their league system. This means that the 'flow' is destroyed as a team cannot ever (fully aware that it's already almost totally unlikely) go from the bottom league to the top table.

That means that there is no room for a Boujadel ploughing cash into a Norwich RFC. This means the system becomes closed, and pretty unattractive outside of those already on the inside.

If PRL change to a Franchise system* (they wont), there's a chance that the RFU could agree to it, but I think that's almost out of the question.

I also don't believe that the RFU would be too happy about a 14 team league with play offs either.

irishbucsfan

The RFU are going to allow this to happen. It's going to be excellent bartering material for them but they aren't going to stand in the way of it, it's not a huge departure from the licensing system in practice.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

The RFU are going to allow this to happen. It's going to be excellent bartering material for them but they aren't going to stand in the way of it, it's not a huge departure from the licensing system in practice.

What would be 'left' for them to use this to barter over?

And it's a huge departure! If it goes ahead, a current premiership rugby team will never be able to compete in the premiership again. Now we can discuss the merits and difficulties faced by LW till we're blue in the face, but to say that it's not a big departure is simply nonsense.

irishbucsfan

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What would be 'left' for them to use this to barter over?

And it's a huge departure! If it goes ahead, a current premiership rugby team will never be able to compete in the premiership again. Now we can discuss the merits and difficulties faced by LW till we're blue in the face, but to say that it's not a big departure is simply nonsense.

The next renewal of their agreement. Mostly player release policies and EPS payments.

The RFU didn't want LW in the premiership in the first place, lets remember. The Premiership is already supposed to be completely ring fenced BY the RFU. They are happy to do this, it's only a positive thing (as LW have shown). I don't know what the final agreement will be, but the RFU are happy for PRL to take more control (another suggestion was them taking on a smaller Championship and then ring fencing those, but the business case wasn't there). There are other benefits to the RFU (the Championship will actually benefit imo).

Not saying I think it's a good agreement, but the RFU are going to allow it to happen.