General Rugby Discussion

thomond2006

I don't like the choke tackle. It means more scrums and stoppages.

CatFromHue

Pudsy33 wrote: »

Yeah that's nonsense. It might promote tackles around the chest but that's perfectly within the rules. It's a thinly veiled attempt to get into referees heads.

I think it puts the defender into a more upright position leading to a bigger chance of heads colliding.

I wouldn't say it's to get into a refs head as the choke tackle is legal as is standing up high to tackle someone. There'll be no benefit to him when Ire play Wales by saying this.

.ak

thomond2006 wrote: »

I don't like the choke tackle. It means more scrums and stoppages.

I love it. Just another reason our game is so diverse. It's very easy not to get held up, by the way.

.ak

CatFromHue wrote: »

I think it puts the defender into a more upright position leading to a bigger chance of heads colliding.

I wouldn't say it's to get into a refs head as the choke tackle is legal as is standing up high to tackle someone. There'll be no benefit to him when Ire play Wales by saying this.

Have we ever seen anyone attempt a choke tackle and get concussed because of it? Generally a choke tackle only occurs when the ball carrier naively carries soft and upright, and if you want to hold a player up you must attack the ball/arms so rather than smashing into the carrier you're looking for a soft wrap. It's all about grappling strength and not a big hit.

Edwards is well aware, it's been around for years and it's defo not exclusively irish.

errlloyd

Effectively the safest way (for both players) to tackle a player in any sport, is the traditional rugby union tackle. Low down, head on the arse, knee, hip, shoulder and ground. It really is a thing of beauty.

By great coincidence, this is all the most effective way to tackle in Rugby Union, getting the player onto the group quickly, while also positioning the tackler in a nice easy place to roll away. American Football, Rugby League and Aussie Rules all suffer injuries, because the type of tackling desirable in those sports is generally rougher and less precise.

He's absolutely correct that tackling in a way which encourages players to stay upright in defense leads to greater risk. Because it's a re-interpretation of the rules and not an intention of the rules I wouldn't mind it being banned. I also hate scrums.

Flipper22

.ak wrote: »

Have we ever seen anyone attempt a choke tackle and get concussed because of it? Generally a choke tackle only occurs when the ball carrier naively carries soft and upright, and if you want to hold a player up you must attack the ball/arms so rather than smashing into the carrier you're looking for a soft wrap. It's all about grappling strength and not a big hit.

Edwards is well aware, it's been around for years and it's defo not exclusively irish.

Fine line though. I mean Sexton often goes high and looks to hold up and I think it makes his head vulnerable. When Bastareaud knocked him out he went high to hold him up but just badly lost the collision

.ak

Flipper22 wrote: »

Fine line though. I mean Sexton often goes high and looks to hold up and I think it makes his head vulnerable. When Bastareaud knocked him out he went high to hold him up but just badly lost the collision

No sexton is just an awful tackler in terms of technique. He's not a good example. He just absolutely smashes people.

The Lost Sheep

thomond2006 wrote: »

I don't like the choke tackle. It means more scrums and stoppages.

What would you do about it though. I like it to be honest. Depending on the game I usually pull teams up fairly quickly on use it or lose it when they occur and its better than an alternative

.ak wrote: »

I love it. Just another reason our game is so diverse. It's very easy not to get held up, by the way.

At higher levels it isn't easiest to get held up but at lower grades it is fairly easy to get held up from my experience

Fireball07

I like the choke tackle too, although that might be because DOC is so good at them and has been a huge asset to Munster & Ireland for years.


But it is a risky tactic to employ, if not executed properly, it can lead to the attacker making a lot of yards.

Flipper22

.ak wrote: »

No sexton is just an awful tackler in terms of technique. He's not a good example. He just absolutely smashes people.

Yeah in terms of traditional front on tackle technique, he doesn't do it. He often tries to hold guys up though. Why is he a bad example? Not that I agree with Edwards that it should be banned, but he's a good example of how attempting to hold guys up can lead to more head-on-heads versus the traditional cheek to cheek tackle.

.ak

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

What would you do about it though. I like it to be honest. Depending on the game I usually pull teams up fairly quickly on use it or lose it when they occur and its better than an alternative

At higher levels it isn't easiest to get held up but at lower grades it is fairly easy to get held up from my experience

I play at a lower level, and I'm 10 stone, so I know all about being held up I suppose it's important for me to know how to avoid it, but in my mind it's simple, I suppose bigger guys are used to not being held up so go into contact higher but if you ask me you only have yourself to blame. It's easy to avoid it and that's the point I'm making about Edwards moaning. Why ban it when players can just avoid it?

.ak

Flipper22 wrote: »

Yeah in terms of traditional front on tackle technique, he doesn't do it. He often tries to hold guys up though. Why is he a bad example? Not that I agree with Edwards that it should be banned, but he's a good example of how attempting to hold guys up can lead to more head-on-heads versus the traditional cheek to cheek tackle.

Because 9 times out of 10 he's not trying to hold someone up, that's just how he tackles.

Flipper22

Pudsy33 wrote: »

Yeah that's nonsense. It might promote tackles around the chest but that's perfectly within the rules. It's a thinly veiled attempt to get into referees heads.

Yeah but attempting to tackle around the chest inevitably means heads are closer to each other.

molloyjh

.ak wrote: »

I play at a lower level, and I'm 10 stone, so I know all about being held up I suppose it's important for me to know how to avoid it, but in my mind it's simple, I suppose bigger guys are used to not being held up so go into contact higher but if you ask me you only have yourself to blame. It's easy to avoid it and that's the point I'm making about Edwards moaning. Why ban it when players can just avoid it?

Being short arse helps though cos you're closer to the ground as it is.

I always found choke tackles far easier than standard tackles tbh.

Bridge93

Are choke tackle any more dangerous? In a normal tackle you've probably more chance of banging your head off a knee/hip/boot than a head in a choke tackle.

sydthebeat

You can't get rid of the choke tackle. ... if you do you would be removing mauls from open play.
If you do THAT, you remove an integral part of the game.

Edwards should just suck it up.

CatFromHue

sydthebeat wrote: »

You can't get rid of the choke tackle. ... if you do you would be removing mauls from open play.
If you do THAT, you remove an integral part of the game.

Edwards should just suck it up.

I thought the rule used to be that a tackle/maul situation the team going forward at the end gets the ball and not what we have now that the team who brought it in loses it?

sydthebeat

CatFromHue wrote: »

I thought the rule used to be that a tackle/maul situation the team going forward at the end gets the ball and not what we have now that the team who brought it in loses it?

If you go back to the old ways then you make a mockery of the use it or loose it rule. .... you end up with more collapsed mauls and more scrums as teams will use it as way to secure possession by being less imaginative with ball in hand.

It's a skill of the game.

And it's a total red herring to somehow draw it into the concussion conversation.

Clearlier

A surprising number of people commenting on a Welsh article on this think that the choke tackle involves choking someone around the neck!

dregin

Clearlier wrote: »

A surprising number of people commenting on a Welsh article on this think that the choke tackle involves choking someone around the neck!

Just like Cloud Computing is well suited to areas of high rainfall levels

timaru89

Clearlier wrote: »

A surprising number of people commenting on a Welsh article on this think that the choke tackle involves choking someone around the neck!

Some of the comments on that article are just embarrassingly clueless!

ssaye2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3aerikR0Cg

http://www.the42.ie/johnny-sexton-ireland-three-six-nations-1956417-Feb2015/

thomond2006

http://www.the42.ie/ireland-england-croke-park-2007-1956817-Feb2015/

Ligind.

.ak

thomond2006 wrote: »

http://www.the42.ie/ireland-england-croke-park-2007-1956817-Feb2015/

Ligind.

Big girl.

thomond2006

.ak wrote: »

Big girl.

Dai Young

Dai Young is back!

Dai Young wrote:

There are no easy games in the Aviva Premiership and winning away from home is always really difficult...

Same week that BBC went for this article on London Welsh...

awec

.ak wrote: »

I play at a lower level, and I'm 10 stone, so I know all about being held up I suppose it's important for me to know how to avoid it, but in my mind it's simple, I suppose bigger guys are used to not being held up so go into contact higher but if you ask me you only have yourself to blame. It's easy to avoid it and that's the point I'm making about Edwards moaning. Why ban it when players can just avoid it?

:eek:

Would have thought you were heavier than me to be honest.

.ak

awec wrote: »

:eek:

Would have thought you were heavier than me to be honest.

You have about half a foot of height on me! :P

sydthebeat

.ak wrote: »

You have about half a foot of height on me! :P

so is .ak Shane Williams incarnate then???

.ak

sydthebeat wrote: »

so is .ak Shane Williams incarnate then???

Yes. But has Shane Williams ever played hooker in an emergency, twice, before? I don't think so.

.ak>Shane Williams.