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General Rugby Discussion

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    #7532
    CIARAN_BOYLE
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,599 Mod ✭✭✭✭CIARAN_BOYLE


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    Is a doctor any more capable than anyone else of diagnosing whether someone was knocked out after the fact? It's a genuine question as I don't know, but I would have thought that if he had regained consciousness by the time he was being attended to then the only "proof" of him being KOed would in fact be from the fairly suspicious looking video.
    If the doctor has your HIA baseline yes. If he is comparing the general population all he can say is maybe.

    My fear though is that when doing the baseline tests North may have fudged his scores so that he could be concussed and continue playing.


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    #7533
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Buer wrote: »
    I'm not proposing an alteration to the independent assessor. But I don't understand how good medical practice could have been followed. He claims a suspected neck injury but is allowed return to the field.

    I don't think it's particularly shocking if a player has played through a bang to the neck? He's really complaining about stiffness to his neck. If they ruled out any actual injuries to his neck (which they claim they did) then I'm not as concerned about that. They're claiming he should be playing this week so if that's true I don't think he actually has a physical injury other than if he's hiding a concussion.


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    #7534
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »
    If the doctor has your HIA baseline yes. If he is comparing the general population all he can say is maybe.

    My fear though is that when doing the baseline tests North may have fudged his scores so that he could be concussed and continue playing.

    This is a possibility but you'd think that after so many years of players claiming to have done that they must find a way to prevent that? Maybe there really is no way around it and the only answer is better education of the guys involved.


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    #7535
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,378 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    i was at a safe talk last week given by Shane Mooney, IRFUs first aid and injury prevention coordinator.
    He was able to explain that in the aviva they have as much as 14 'hawkeye" cameras that they are constantly watching during games to pick up injuries that arent apparent in open play.

    id be interested to know if professional clubs have similar set ups


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    #7536
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,368 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    I'd be more concerned about a Junior League player getting a belt on a Sunday morning in Skibbereen or Youghal.


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    #7537
    Felix Jones is God
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,160 ✭✭✭Felix Jones is God


    Pat Lam going to Bristol is a bloody disgrace, it's a step down imo


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    #7538
    whatawaster
    Registered Users Posts: 12,906 ✭✭✭✭whatawaster


    Felix Jones is God wrote: »
    Pat Lam going to Bristol is a bloody disgrace, it's a step down imo

    In rugby terms, but he's probably going to be on serious money, which is a major consideration for him and his family I'm sure.


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    #7539
    Felix Jones is God
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,160 ✭✭✭Felix Jones is God


    whatawaster wrote: »
    In rugby terms, but he's probably going to be on serious money, which is a major consideration for him and his family I'm sure.

    He may very well be getting a large pay increase, but you now have a squad of players who feel let down. Bundi and Dillane signed on because of Lam, he's now leaving and that's going to screw up the rest of Connachts season


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    #7540
    errlloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 12,607 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    whatawaster wrote: »
    In rugby terms, but he's probably going to be on serious money, which is a major consideration for him and his family I'm sure.

    Of all coaches Pat Lam knows how fickle the money can be, Connacht was his redemption, but you only live twice. He made it work, now he has to make it pay.


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    #7541
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    This Lam move has been rumoured for a while, no? I remember someone on Twitter saying after Schmidt signed on to 2019 that Lam had wanted the Ireland job but didn't want to wait until 2019 for it, I'm sure they mentioned Bristol specifically at that point too.

    Any ideas on potential replacements?


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    #7542
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    This Lam move has been rumoured for a while, no? I remember someone on Twitter saying after Schmidt signed on to 2019 that Lam had wanted the Ireland job but didn't want to wait until 2019 for it, I'm sure they mentioned Bristol specifically at that point too.

    Any ideas on potential replacements?

    Lam was never going to get the Ireland job if Joe left. It was never going to happen.


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    #7543
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users Posts: 14,368 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Lam was never going to get the Ireland job if Joe left. It was never going to happen.

    Why not?


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    #7544
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Lam was never going to get the Ireland job if Joe left. It was never going to happen.

    I would think the same but that's just what I remember seeing on twitter, think it was Whiff of Cordite, at the time.
    They did also say though that Aki was very much Lam's man and would be going with him, which they got wrong, so there may have been nothing in it.


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    #7545
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Lam was never going to get the Ireland job if Joe left. It was never going to happen.

    Never is a strong statement.


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    #7546
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Never is a strong statement.

    Maybe a little, but I just can't see how it would happen. Off the back of 1 successful Pro12 season?


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    #7547
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Never is a strong statement.

    I don't think it's a strong statement in these specific circumstances. If Schmidt hadn't committed to 2019 he'd be gone after 2017 6 Nations. So in those circumstances Lam taking over with 1 Pro 12 trophy to his name would have been quite a surprise and somewhat questionable.


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    #7548
    b.gud
    Registered Users Posts: 4,806 ✭✭✭b.gud


    TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »
    I don't think it's a strong statement in these specific circumstances. If Schmidt hadn't committed to 2019 he'd be gone after 2017 6 Nations. So in those circumstances Lam taking over with 1 Pro 12 trophy to his name would have been quite a surprise and somewhat questionable.

    That 1 trophy would have been the most won by a current provincial coach though!

    Not saying that means he should have gotten the job, just saying that determining if a coach should or shouldn't get the job based solely on trophies won or not won isn't necessarily the best metric


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    #7549
    Zzippy
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,166 Mod ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    While I agree, I don't think Lam would have been in serious consideration, he is a huge loss to Connacht. I actually hope for his sake that he's taking over a Championship side next year, it would give him more time to work on implementing the skills and gameplan changes that he demands in his teams, so that when they get back to the Premiership the ground work will be done. I don't know if he'll get the same time as he did at Connacht to work on the basics without lack of success being a breaking point if they are still in the Premiership.


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    #7550
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,790 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Felix Jones is God wrote: »
    whatawaster wrote: »
    In rugby terms, but he's probably going to be on serious money, which is a major consideration for him and his family I'm sure.

    He may very well be getting a large pay increase, but you now have a squad of players who feel let down. Bundi and Dillane signed on because of Lam, he's now leaving and that's going to screw up the rest of Connachts season

    Better he let's down a group of players than his family.

    I'm not a Connacht fan but my concerns here would be the ability of the worst team in the Premiership to financially out muscle the Pro 12 champions.


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    #7551
    TICKLE_ME_ELMO
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 23,931 Mod ✭✭✭✭TICKLE_ME_ELMO


    b.gud wrote: »
    That 1 trophy would have been the most won by a current provincial coach though!

    Not saying that means he should have gotten the job, just saying that determining if a coach should or shouldn't get the job based solely on trophies won or not won isn't necessarily the best metric

    Well, given the other Provincial coaches have been in their positions half a season (or a few weeks if Foley was head coach until his death), a season and a season and a half compared to Lam's 3 and a half seasons, it's not that surprising he's the most successful.

    I'm not having a go at Lam, I just don't think he would have been in the running for the Ireland job had Schmidt decided to leave when his original contract ran out. If there had been no other candidates and the IRFU had to pick from one of the current Provincial coaches he might have had a shot at it, although Kiss's experience with the Irish set up would probably have helped his cause.

    Anyway, point being, I don't think Lam would have been a serious contender for the job in 2017. Had he stayed on with Connacht until 2019, and continued the good work he's been doing there then maybe he would have been in the running.


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    #7552
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    bilston wrote: »
    Better he let's down a group of players than his family.

    I'm not a Connacht fan but my concerns here would be the ability of the worst team in the Premiership to financially out muscle the Pro 12 champions.

    They're not financially weakest in the premiership though, so no real need to worry about it based on their league position... (apart from the fact that they're all richer than us but sure forget that bit)


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    #7553
    Felix Jones is God
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,160 ✭✭✭Felix Jones is God


    bilston wrote: »
    Better he let's down a group of players than his family.

    I'm not a Connacht fan but my concerns here would be the ability of the worst team in the Premiership to financially out muscle the Pro 12 champions.

    Ah stop, let down his family :rolleyes: he's on a fantastic wage at Connacht, but he's been bought by Bristol's big bucks backer...he's jumped ship for the money, used Connacht as his vehicle to rebuild his reputation, fair play for doing so if it works out for him, but poor Lams family doesn't wash


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    #7554
    Lake1989
    Site Banned Posts: 377 ✭✭Lake1989


    bilston wrote: »
    Better he let's down a group of players than his family.

    I'm not a Connacht fan but my concerns here would be the ability of the worst team in the Premiership to financially out muscle the Pro 12 champions.

    Bristol have a ridiculous amount of senior players, 58 players listed on their website as first team squad.


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    #7555
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Lake1989 wrote: »
    Bristol have a ridiculous amount of senior players, 58 players listed on their website as first team squad.

    That includes Bristol United players though doesn't it? Around the same as any of the provinces if you count their full depth.


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    #7556
    Lake1989
    Site Banned Posts: 377 ✭✭Lake1989


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    That includes Bristol United players though doesn't it? Around the same as any of the provinces if you count their full depth.

    there is a handful of players born in the 1996-1998 years but they do seem to have gone for quantity over quality. Leinster are a different case with 20 or so players in ireland camps for 3-4 months of the season. Bristol dont appear to have too many players who will be away in the international windows.


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    #7557
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Lake1989 wrote: »
    there is a handful of players born in the 1996-1998 years but they do seem to have gone for quantity over quality. Leinster are a different case with 20 or so players in ireland camps for 3-4 months of the season. Bristol dont appear to have too many players who will be away in the international windows.

    They've a similar number of guys involved as the likes of Munster and Ulster when you count their A teams and academy players, English clubs often list these players all together though. Don't forget teams in England are given salary cap credits for maintaining sizeable academies as well as part of their LTA with the RFU which offsets the cost of those players.

    They actually didn't do enough recruitment IMO, they needed to bring in more premiership standard players in order to achieve success this year.


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    #7558
    swiwi_
    Registered Users Posts: 4,491 ✭✭✭swiwi_


    Felix Jones is God wrote: »
    Pat Lam going to Bristol is a bloody disgrace, it's a step down imo

    There is nothing more tedious than fan snobbery when it comes to appparently "lesser" clubs.


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    #7559
    Felix Jones is God
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,160 ✭✭✭Felix Jones is God


    swiwi_ wrote: »
    There is nothing more tedious than fan snobbery when it comes to appparently "lesser" clubs.

    Snobbery? Your posts are becoming more comical by the day
    Joe signing a contract extension probably hastened his exit from Ireland, but let's call a spade a spade, he has left a club that is in the champions cup for a team that will be in the second tier in England, ...not exactly going to leave a pleasant taste in the mouth


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    #7560
    Zzippy
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,166 Mod ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    Felix Jones is God wrote: »
    Snobbery? Your posts are becoming more comical by the day
    Joe signing a contract extension probably hastened his exit from Ireland, but let's call a spade a spade, he has left a club that is in the champions cup for a team that will be in the second tier in England, ...not exactly going to leave a pleasant taste in the mouth

    You're a Munster fan, why are you taking offence on behalf of Connacht fans, pretty much every one of whom has expressed nothing but gratitude to Pat for what he's done and wished him well??? He owes us nothing, and doesn't deserve to be disparaged for choosing to move - so what if it's for money, it's professional sport. Did you disparage POC for taking a big paycheck in France too?


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    #7561
    Felix Jones is God
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,160 ✭✭✭Felix Jones is God


    Zzippy wrote: »
    You're a Munster fan, why are you taking offence on behalf of Connacht fans, pretty much every one of whom has expressed nothing but gratitude to Pat for what he's done and wished him well??? He owes us nothing, and doesn't deserve to be disparaged for choosing to move - so what if it's for money, it's professional sport. Did you disparage POC for taking a big paycheck in France too?

    Offence? None taken.
    POC gave his career to Munster, different situation. And I wonder how in the world Bristol knew he was "available"


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