796 children buried in Septic Tank in Galway - ### Mod Warning in 1st Post

Red Pepper

RobertKK wrote: »

I am no longer posting in this thread. I did nothing wrong.

And it was only my 1st reply in this thread. My work here is done.

bumper234

Petition hits 10,000

https://secure.avaaz.org/en/petition/Frances_Fitzgerald_Irish_Minister_for_Justice_and_Equality_A_full_Gardai_investigation_into_the_mass_grave_in_Tuam_Co_Ga/

josip

It is highly unlikely the various churches in the state will ever relinquish their control/ownership of the various schools.
It's where they recruit all their members and without that access they would be unrecognisable within a couple of generations.
I think they would sooner give up the church buildings themselves than hand over the schools to the state.

OldRio

same ol sh1te wrote: »

We have facts, death certs confirm that 100 of those missing dead children died of malnourishment, this would be because they were removed from their mothers. There was no shortage of food, these houses had their own allotments and cattle. They also received the average industrial wage each for the caring of these children and mothers (even though the mothers were forced to work)

Yes we are all morally outraged by what might have happened but it seems some want to be more morally outraged than others. Many people are using this case for their own agenda.
I for one will wait for the investigation.

endacl

After the revelations of the past twenty years or so, I thought I'd heard all there was to be heard. I must admit, I've recently been left somewhat jaded, somewhat 'this too? More?'.

The thought of almost 800 children being equated with human waste though, with sh1t, has left me feeling physically sick, and furiously angry. There is no defence, no explanation, that can mitigate those actions that were carried out systematically over decades. I almost despair for our common humanity when I read some posts on this and other threads, offering explanation and rationalisation. People have to realize that this practise was vile, wrong, and unforgivable, in the most absolute meaning of those terms.

The fact that there is debate here at all disgusts me. Yes, I am atheist. No, I don't have much time at all for the RCC as an institution or Catholicism as a faith. That aside, it escapes me entirely how any rational, right minded, decent and human individual could in any way attempt to offer defence in this instance. What was done was wrong. It was vile. And somebody has to answer for it. Yes there were unofficial cemetaries dotted around the country where little limbo-bound innocents were buried according to local tradition and practise. Prayers were said, and a local priest would often unoficially officiate. What was carried out in Tuam was different. It wasn't burial. It was waste disposal. I'm all for debate, but you'll have a hard time convincing me otherwise. Not because I'm atheist or 'anti catholic'. That does inform my opinions elsewhere. Not here though. On this matter, if you don't agree you're just wrong, and I despair for you.

That's my final comment on this matter on here. I'll leave you to your conscience.

Un Croissant

Is 10,000 a magic number or just an indicator?

bumper234

Un Croissant wrote: »

Is 10,000 a magic number or just an indicator?

Poster started off hoping to get 2k then it was 10k now looking to get 50k. The more that sign the better

padd b1975

same ol sh1te wrote: »

What conclusions, we have facts, 100 of those 800 babies died of malnourishment as they were taken from their mothers

......and fathers (if known).

padd b1975

bumper234 wrote: »

Petition hits 10,000

https://secure.avaaz.org/en/petition/Frances_Fitzgerald_Irish_Minister_for_Justice_and_Equality_A_full_Gardai_investigation_into_the_mass_grave_in_Tuam_Co_Ga/

Any numbers for the amount of 'likes' on Facebook?

WilyCoyote

Once again the invidious tentacles of the catholic church, the Knights of Columbanus, Opus Dei, me feiner politicians, upper echelons of the gardai, the cowardly media and workers that knew what was going on strangled the truth.

If these atrocities had been known by the general public, there would have been an outcry.

The neurotics and borderline personality disorder virgins that ran these establishments shouldn't have been allowed to run an egg & spoon race never mind having anything to do with normal living - ie. the growth and development of human beings.

We await to see what rearguard action will be trotted out by the usual suspects to stem the tide of world-wide revulsion.

It's time for the church's power to be demolished, their property to be confiscated and the power of Rome to be put in an emigrant ship.

Fucking disgusting shower.

Ash.J.Williams

ireland is a victim of a cult. Plain and simple and they're not all dead yet. Some are still in Government.

ScumLord

WilyCoyote wrote: »

If these atrocities had been known by the general public, there would have been an outcry.

I don't know that there would have been, Irish people have swallowed every bit of rhetoric the church has shoved down our throats.

I don't think anyone that could spread the message would have dared challenge the authority of the church and would have clung onto their "faith" rather than listen to reason. There were little outside influences back then, it would have been very difficult to challenge the status quo.

Colser

padd b1975 wrote: »

......and fathers (if known).

If known by whom?

Yeah_Right

jank wrote: »

http://www.catholic.org.nz/about/dsp-organisations.cfm?loadref=245

Thanks. But none of those are really hospitals. They are pretty much all small private retirement homes and hospices. That people can choose to go to. They aren't the only option.

JP Liz V1

Those poor little kids - RIP

foggy_lad

bumper234 wrote: »

This would (i presume) be illegal. Would you agree if they did it with the GAA? I do agree that investigations should take place and if guilt is found then the state could possibly through the CAB seize lands/properties to pay any fines/compensation that is awarded.

Would it be better if religion and teaching it was banned from all schools both public and private, and all religious trinkets and paraphernalia including crosses banned?

padd b1975 wrote: »

......and fathers (if known).

much of the time the nuns registered the births and left the fathers name blank despite the women telling them the names or told the father to bugger off or they would basically regret it, all they saw was money from Good American Catholics who wanted an Irish non mexican/coloured/Latino child

padd b1975

Colser wrote: »

If known by whom?

Those involved with registering the children into the care of the nuns.

bumper234

foggy_lad wrote: »

Would it be better if religion and teaching it was banned from all schools both public and private, and all religious trinkets and paraphernalia including crosses banned?

much of the time the nuns registered the births and left the fathers name blank despite the women telling them the names or told the father to bugger off or they would basically regret it, all they saw was money from Good American Catholics who wanted an Irish non mexican/coloured/Latino child

Teaching in school i am in favour of banning but you can't ban someone from wearing a cross or having one in their car or home.

Colser

padd b1975 wrote: »

Those involved with registering the children into the care of the nuns.

Are you referring to the mothers?

Czarcasm

WilyCoyote wrote: »

If these atrocities had been known by the general public, there would have been an outcry.

You honestly think people didn't know? There was outcry from people at the thought of having young single mothers amongst them. That was the whole point of these hell holes -

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/The-Home-babies-in-the-news-A-timeline-of-neglect-in-plain-sight.html

padd b1975

Colser wrote: »

Are you referring to the mothers?

I'm referring to the extended family who saw fit to disown a pregnant daughter/sibling / relation.

seenitall

endacl wrote: »

It was waste disposal.

What a glaring, outstanding and brutal whopper of a piece of irony, considering the CC's vicious stance on abortion.

SEPT 23 1989

Can we cover over the field in a white tent,seal off the area as a crime scene and start digging

getting very tired of the excuses and delay tactics now

Ash.J.Williams

foggy_lad wrote: »

Would it be better if religion and teaching it was banned from all schools both public and private, and all religious trinkets and paraphernalia including crosses banned?

much of the time the nuns registered the births and left the fathers name blank despite the women telling them the names or told the father to bugger off or they would basically regret it, all they saw was money from Good American Catholics who wanted an Irish non mexican/coloured/Latino child

i'm not ion favour of banning anything.....just remove it from the curriculum ...it's banning it that got us in this mess....bloody Romans...

WilyCoyote

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't know that there would have been, Irish people have swallowed every bit of rhetoric the church has shoved down our throats.

I don't think anyone that could spread the message would have dared challenge the authority of the church and would have clung onto their "faith" rather than listen to reason. There were little outside influences back then, it would have been very difficult to challenge the status quo.

I understand Scumlord. But if these facts were widely known by the general public then .......... the news would have leaked abroad. The Protestant papers of Northern Europe and the WASPS in the US would have had a field day and worldwide attention would have spotlighted the skull-numbing shenanigans of these places.
Remember, some of the money that flowed into the percentage coffers of Rome was truly blood money.

I realise that some of the people of Ireland would not, or could not, get their heads around the fact that a religious organisation could promote such behaviour. This is what brainwashing does. The church ruled from the cradle (baptism) to the grave (extreme unction and church burial) in the biggest corporate swindle that the world knows.

Of the priests, nuns, brothers etc that joined these orders ......... some were idealists, some were socially inadequate, some looked at the three square meals a day scenario, some were made feeble minded by religious beliefs and some were sadistic and perverted.

The oft stated phrase "many are called but few are chosen" was a great soundbite by the church. If God was doing the calling, I think any believer should examine the fuck ups that came out of that.

And how can anyone believe in papal infallibility, God's justice and the whole ballyhoo that goes along with one of the most successful cults to pervade this planet.

Dan_Solo

padd b1975 wrote: »

I'm referring to the extended family who saw fit to disown a pregnant daughter/sibling / relation.

And who's fault would it have been that the prevailing attitude towards unmarried mothers was they were disgusting sinners who would be better off sold to slavery and their babies neglected to death?
Hmmm, Catholic church by any chance?

My name is URL

WilyCoyote wrote: »

The Protestant papers of Northern Europe and the WASPS in the US would have had a field day

The protestants were at the same thing themselves

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethany_Home

And it's not something that was exclusive to Ireland

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_adoption_in_the_United_Kingdom#Affected_families

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_adoption_in_Australia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_Scoop_Era

SpaceTime

I remember taking to an old Christian Brother in a school here when I was about 12. He was a friendly and decent sort. What shocked me (even at age 12) was when he was talking about his childhood.

I'd asked him how he became a teacher. It was like one minute he was playing football with his mates in Galway and at AGE 13 he was sent off to join 'the brothers'.

The guy actually said that he really regretted never being able to have a family or even proper friends! He was going on about how he'd have loved a house in Connemara and go have been a grandad. And he was saying all this to a bunch of lads in 1st year in school. I don't think at the time I took in quite what a profoundly sad state of affairs he was describing.

When you think about it though, these organisations were clearly staffed by very institutionalised people who may have had no training, no experience of family life, may have been quite bitter about their own circumstances etc etc.

Many of the staff were probably brutalised themselves too.

It doesn't make what went on any less shocking. It just demonstrates how these organisations really damaged a lot of people, including many of their own 'staff'.

The whole 'system' was just totally inhumane and led to a hell of a lot of serious damage to a very large number of people.

It's just a horrific mess and a truly grim part of Irish recent history.

Czarcasm

Dan_Solo wrote: »

And who's fault would it have been that the prevailing attitude towards unmarried mothers was they were disgusting sinners who would be better off sold to slavery and their babies neglected to death?
Hmmm, Catholic church by any chance?

The Catholic Church were just fulfilling a need in a society where everyone already competed to be morally superior to each other. Even nowadays you don't have to look too hard to find people who engage in the very same behavior, and they may have nothing whatsoever to do with the RCC, it's human nature.

If you were to wipe out the RCC out of Ireland in the morning, actually scratch that, let's go further - wipe every trace of religion off the face of the planet...

You still think individuals wouldn't want to find ways in which they could feel morally and intellectually superior to everyone else?

ScumLord

foggy_lad wrote: »

Would it be better if religion and teaching it was banned from all schools both public and private, and all religious trinkets and paraphernalia including crosses banned?

I don't think religion should be banned but I'd like to see a proper religion class, study religion in it's entirety like you would geography. Maybe it's change since my day but religion class when I was in school was a christian ideals indoctrination class.

WilyCoyote wrote: »

And how can anyone believe in papal infallibility, God's justice and the whole ballyhoo that goes along with one of the most successful cults to pervade this planet.

It's very easy for us to see it's nonsense with hindsight and the benefit of scientific explanations. All our science seems obvious now but it wasn't never obvious. You could only believe what you were told and when you could be ostracized from your small community for not accepting the dogma you're just not going to risk everything when you know everyone will turn on you.

There was no alternative explanations other than what the church told you.