796 children buried in Septic Tank in Galway - ### Mod Warning in 1st Post

KCC

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/04/world/europe/ireland-orphanages-mass-grave.html?_r=0

This story is now getting international attention which hopefully will put the pressure on the Irish media and government to investigate.




Mod: Folks, please refrain from making wild accusations and/or assumptions of murder and torture. And don't use this thread as another church bashing thread. If the story makes you so incensed that your can't post anything other than to express your hatred of the RCC, then just don't post and save us all some time. You can, of course, criticise the events and the people involved, but don't lose the run of yourselves.

renegademaster

KCC wrote: »

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/04/world/europe/ireland-orphanages-mass-grave.html?_r=0

This story is now getting international attention which hopefully will put the pressure on the Irish media and government to investigate.

this and too many other stories reduce me to tears!!

kylith

There's a link to a petition campaigning for a full investigation in my sig. Sign and pass it on.

renegademaster

kylith wrote: »

There's a link to a petition campaigning for a full investigation in my sig. Sign and pass it on.

can't see your SIG on my phone

gctest50

Petition links


https://secure.avaaz.org/en/petition/Frances_Fitzgerald_Irish_Minister_for_Justice_and_Equality_A_full_Gardai_investigation_into_the_mass_grave_in_Tuam_Co_Ga/



same link in short url form :



http://bit.ly/1pDb3O7



.

Turtyturd

Nice gesture from the Galway church leaders. That should make everything okay. :rolleyes:

Bunch of f*cking clowns.

wildefalcon

I fear that this story may be repeated in many other towns and cities in Ireland over the next few years.

Oranage2

Another Catholic church atrocity investigated when all those responsible are long dead. This is truly stomach churning!

wildefalcon

We're not very good with our moral guardians, are we?

kylith

wildefalcon wrote: »

We're not very good with our moral guardians, are we?

Our moral guardians weren't very moral.

Akrasia

The catholic church are 'pro-life' up until the point the baby is born, after that, they are pro-catholic agenda, and anyone or anything that posed a threat to their dominance were literally flung onto the sceptic tank.

greenflash

As a parent I find this truly heartbreaking. As a human, I find myself shaking with anger. It really is time to sever completely the link between Ireland/Irishness and Roman Catholicism. It's a disgusting outdated superstition that should have no place in a modern Ireland, especially not the continuing education of our children.

Rest in peace poor little children and their mothers.

thomasm

Reported here..
http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2014/06/03/bodies-of-800-children-were-just-resting-in-mass-grave-claims-catholic-church/

whisky_galore

wildefalcon wrote: »

I fear that this story may be repeated in many other towns and cities in Ireland over the next few years.

It went on in countless towns, villages and townlands all over the country.

I don't know how much an investigation will achieve, the protagonists are probably all dead or in their dotage at this remove.

cournioni

"Faith" indeed. If this was Jonestown or somewhere else, people would be calling them raging loonies.

shruikan2553

You would be amazed by the people trying to downplay the churches involvement in this. Supposedly they wouldn't baptise these children so there was no way they would be buried on consecrated ground.

Akrasia

shruikan2553 wrote: »

You would be amazed by the people trying to downplay the churches involvement in this. Supposedly they wouldn't baptise these children so there was no way they would be buried on consecrated ground.

And this is one of the most pathetic parts of the whole story. The catholic teaching at the time was that non baptised people were doomed to go to hell or at the very best 'limbo'. They refused to accept these children into the church on the basis of some 'sin' that their parents committed before the children were even born.

Whatever about the morality of having sex outside of marriage, the children were absolutely innocent of any 'sin' or any breach of catholic ethics but the church still treated them as if they were sub human in life and into death.

What kind of mindset did they have? It absolutely boggles the mind that newborns and infants could have been labeled and pre-destined to live lives of third class citizens. It's the medieval mindset of a bronze age church and it has absolutely no place in a post enlightenment civilisation. The church needs to go. They have absolutely no moral authority, no reason to exist anymore, all they do is continuously attempt to drag us back into the dark ages from whence they came.

GalwayGuy2

Can someone explain this to me? I'm kind of confused.

Akrasia

GalwayGuy2 wrote: »

Can someone explain this to me? I'm kind of confused.

Catholic Ireland drove women who fell pregnant out of wedlock into catholic church run institutions where the women were enslaved and the babies malnourished and neglected and left to die at a rate that was more than twice the normal infant mortality rate in Ireland.
These dead babies were then dumped into an unmarked grave in an old sceptic tank over a 40 year period and sealed in concrete

GalwayGuy2

Yeah, that's not very nice.

bumper234

wildefalcon wrote: »

I fear that this story may be repeated in many other towns and cities in Ireland over the next few years.

I really hope it is, Not only to show the atrocities that the Catholic church partook in but so that every man/woman/child whose remains were dumped in a hole in the ground can maybe receive a proper burial.

The government should force the church to tell them where these mass graves are and should also ask locals from towns and villages where these homes where based about any graves they know of.

The bodies should then be removed and reburied with dignity and a proper burial. The catholic church should then be billed for every cent that it costs and if they refuse to pay then they should ave assets seized and sold until the final bill is covered.

Reformed Character

Scum, and those who might defend or try in any way to defend or explain away this crime against humanity are even lower than the scum who committed it!

Hootanany

bumper234 wrote: »

I really hope it is, Not only to show the atrocities that the Catholic church partook in but so that every man/woman/child whose remains were dumped in a hole in the ground can maybe receive a proper burial.

The government should force the church to tell them where these mass graves are and should also ask locals from towns and villages where these homes where based about any graves they know of.

The bodies should then be removed and reburied with dignity and a proper burial. The catholic church should then be billed for every cent that it costs and if they refuse to pay then they should ave assets seized and sold until the final bill is covered.

^ this + 100000000000000000000000000000000000

It wont happen thou with are spineless lot

iDave

So we can add killing people to the list of atrocities by the church in Ireland since independence.

SEPT 23 1989

I would call for an international team of experts who have dealt with genocide and mass graves to come over and investigate these atrocities fully. This state cannot be trusted to deal with the catholic church as we have witnessed in the past

Reformed Character

iDave wrote: »

So we can add killing people to the list of atrocities by the church in Ireland since independence.

Indeed, we already knew about the killings in Letterfrack and other places.
But these poor babies were fúcked in a septic tank because the catholics considered them to be "illegitimate bástards" no better than sewage.

anncoates

A recent thread here was asking if people were sentimental and what made them cry.

Well, here you are.

The thing I don't understand is if the children were baptised , and presumed they were as they were not babies who were born dead,... according to the rules of the church they should have been buried in concentrated ground a.k.a a grave yard so how come that did not happen? the nuns running the home must have known this.

bumper234

mariaalice wrote: »

The thing I don't understand is if the children were baptised , and presumed they were as they were not babies who were born dead,... according to the rules of the church they should have been buried in concentrated ground a.k.a a grave yard so how come that did not happen? the nuns running the home must have known this.

Bastard children of unwed mothers were not baptized back then.

gctest50

mariaalice wrote: »

The thing I don't understand is if the children were baptised , and presumed they were as they were not babies who were born dead,... according to the rules of the church they should have been buried in concentrated ground a.k.a a grave yard so how come that did not happen? the nuns running the home must have known this.

The RCC & friends seemed to have used it as a tool of control

Bit like the Nazi extermination camps - "not one of us - off to the camp with you"

Help one of the "outsiders", have one of the "outsiders" in your family - expect life to become very difficult

diveout

So you wont let women have abortions, buy you can make them give birth, kidnap their kids, and then let the kids starve to death and throw the dead body into a septic tank.

Seriously, I couldn't have concocted a more evil plot.

Reformed Character

mariaalice wrote: »

The thing I don't understand is if the children were baptised , and presumed they were as they were not babies who were born dead,... according to the rules of the church they should have been buried in concentrated ground a.k.a a grave yard so how come that did not happen? the nuns running the home must have known this.

We don't know with any certainty that they were born dead, they may well have been murdered because they were born with mental of physical disabilities and thus were not fit for sale to Americans, which was the real business of these place, baby selling!

snubbleste

Is there a tax paid on that septic tank? Has it been inspected by the local authority for compliance etc etc...

What other scandals are due to come out? Bishop Casey looks like a cherubic angel compared to all that has emerged in the last 20 years.

kneemos

mariaalice wrote: »

The thing I don't understand is if the children were baptised , and presumed they were as they were not babies who were born dead,... according to the rules of the church they should have been buried in concentrated ground a.k.a a grave yard so how come that did not happen? the nuns running the home must have known this.

It would cost.

Can't understand why there is any debate over an investigation,surely it's a given.You discover a mass grave of all things an investigation starts immediately surely to God?

bumper234

mariaalice wrote: »

The thing I don't understand is if the children were baptised , and presumed they were as they were not babies who were born dead,... according to the rules of the church they should have been buried in concentrated ground a.k.a a grave yard so how come that did not happen? the nuns running the home must have known this.

One of the bodies is of a 9 year old boy.

Plazaman

Don't get me wrong, this story is tragic beyond belief and I'm no fan of the Church but to lay the blame solely at their feet is letting others off the hook. The State was equally to blame and many girls were sent to these workhouses through the courts and guards. In some cases their own families turned them in because of the shame their pregnancy would bring on the family.

It was the thinking at the time and thankfully we have matured as a nation since then on that and a lot of issues. What is an enquiry going to turn up that we don't already know? The Catholic Church is already in decline, the only thing I'd worry about is what would take it's place?

Daith

Plazaman wrote: »

The Catholic Church is already in decline

Yet they seem to think they are very much relevant when it comes to social issues and get quite a bit of air time to show it.

An investigation is needed to find the truth. It won't affect the past but might affect the present and future.

diveout

Plazaman wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, this story is tragic beyond belief and I'm no fan of the Church but to lay the blame solely at their feet is letting others off the hook. The State was equally to blame and many girls were sent to these workhouses through the courts and guards. In some cases their own families turned them in because of the shame their pregnancy would bring on the family.

It was the thinking at the time and thankfully we have matured as a nation since then on that and a lot of issues. What is an enquiry going to turn up that we don't already know? The Catholic Church is already in decline, the only thing I'd worry about is what would take it's place?

They are still running the schools. That is not enough of a decline in power. Hearts and minds....

gctest50

Plazaman wrote: »

In some cases their own families turned them in because of the shame their pregnancy would bring on the family.

That happened in Communist Russia and Nazi Germany back then too.

Ireland version :

Unmarried mothers - shameful

Support Unmarried mothers - shame on you

The whole purpose behind making the Unmarried Mothers shameful was to fuel the money-making death camp

Produce saleable baby - sell baby

Produce unsaleable baby - leave it starve to death

They were de-humanised and turned into a source of profit

.

kylith

Reformed Character wrote: »

We don't know with any certainty that they were born dead, they may well have been murdered because they were born with mental of physical disabilities and thus were not fit for sale to Americans, which was the real business of these place, baby selling!

They were aged, IIRC, between 2 days and 6 years, so certainly a lot of them would not have been stillborn.

The attitude towards these mothers and children is even more mind boggling when you think that the person they worship, Jesus, was the bastard child of an unmarried teenager.

Reformed Character

shruikan2553 wrote: »

You would be amazed by the people trying to downplay the churches involvement in this. .

Not really:

Plazaman wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, this story is tragic beyond belief and I'm no fan of the Church but to lay the blame solely at their feet is letting others off the hook. The State was equally to blame and many girls were sent to these workhouses through the courts and guards. In some cases their own families turned them in because of the shame their pregnancy would bring on the family.

It was the thinking at the time and thankfully we have matured as a nation since then on that and a lot of issues. What is an enquiry going to turn up that we don't already know? The Catholic Church is already in decline, the only thing I'd worry about is what would take it's place?

Here we go!

Chattastrophe!

Absolute scum.

The terrifying thing is that, with the sheer number of children involved, it wasn't just one psychotic person acting alone. I imagine there must have been several involved.

Dumping a baby into a mass grave would psychologically scar me for life. F*ck sake. No. My life wouldn't even be worth living after doing such a thing.

And yet loads of people did it? Over the course of several years? And in the name of the Catholic church, that's how they justified it? More than one person thought that this was OK. They actually took a small dead baby (were the babies even dead at the time? And if so, by what means?) and threw them into a septic tank? And they could live with themselves?

These people educate our children?

No. It's time to take a stand. This is horrific.

foggy_lad

The catholic church were breeding gods army of brawlers orphans and bastards here between the laundries and industrial schools because they were able to claim big state handouts but once you reached 16 for boys you were füçked out on the street with no proper education, some 2nd hand clothes and told to be on your way.

They wanted poor ignorant people to have the same large families as their parents had to keep their slave houses and money making orphanages and industrial schools with a steady supply of poor illiterate bastards and waifs and strays.

Once in their care there was no care at all, you were just a number and they made sure you knew this. The most wicked and heinous crimes against children went unreported and perpetrators were often moved around into other positions where committing further offences was easier.

The response from the church has always been and is still "we report to a higher authority" meaning your laws are not our laws, offences committed under state laws do not carry the same weight when viewed under canon law where raping children gets you moved to a new parish with a new supply of fresh boys and girls, or moved out to the missions where the poor savages wouldn't have the language to explain what the good brother or priest was doing.

Ash.J.Williams

Akrasia wrote: »

Catholic Ireland drove women who fell pregnant out of wedlock into catholic church run institutions where the women were enslaved and the babies malnourished and neglected and left to die at a rate that was more than twice the normal infant mortality rate in Ireland.
These dead babies were then dumped into an unmarked grave in an old sceptic tank over a 40 year period and sealed in concrete

unless they were strong and healthy and looked like they might not die...in which case they were "given" to americans for a donation.

diveout

foggy_lad wrote: »

The catholic church were breeding gods army of brawlers orphans and bastards here between the laundries and industrial schools because they were able to claim big state handouts but once you reached 16 for boys you were füçked out on the street with no proper education, some 2nd hand clothes and told to be on your way.

They wanted poor ignorant people to have the same large families as their parents had to keep their slave houses and money making orphanages and industrial schools with a steady supply of poor illiterate bastards and waifs and strays.

Once in their care there was no care at all, you were just a number and they made sure you knew this. The most wicked and heinous crimes against children went unreported and perpetrators were often moved around into other positions where committing further offences was easier.

The response from the church has always been and is still "we report to a higher authority" meaning your laws are not our laws, offences committed under state laws do not carry the same weight when viewed under canon law where raping children gets you moved to a new parish with a new supply of fresh boys and girls, or moved out to the missions where the poor savages wouldn't have the language to explain what the good brother or priest was doing.

Amazing how evil you can be when God is on your side.

Grayson

bumper234 wrote: »

Bastard children of unwed mothers were not baptized back then.

My sister was born in the late 70's. Because my dad had divorced and remarried, most priests refused to baptise her. She was two or three before she got baptised.

Umadbrah?

Chattastrophe! wrote: »

They actually took a small dead baby (were the babies even dead at the time? And if so, by what means?) and threw them into a septic tank? And they could live with themselves?

Yeah it' actually disturbing can you imagine the slight and smell etc. What sane person would do that?

snaphook

This is one of the most significant discoveries in the history of the state.

Kudos to historian Catherine Corless on her work here.
It is our national holocaust.

Mal-Adjusted

Reformed Character wrote: »

We don't know with any certainty that they were born dead, they may well have been murdered because they were born with mental of physical disabilities

Steady on. I'm all for moral outrage, but lets not just make up stuff! There's enough horrible acts in this story without haphazardly throwing accusations of murder around.

Reformed Character wrote: »

sale to Americans, which was the real business of these place, baby selling!

Sadly, I have no doubt that this is true

Plazaman wrote: »

Don't get me wrong, this story is tragic beyond belief and I'm no fan of the Church but to lay the blame solely at their feet is letting others off the hook. The State was equally to blame and many girls were sent to these workhouses through the courts and guards.

True. Without trying to dilute or distract blame from the RCC, the state basically enabled their subjugation of society.

Plazaman wrote: »

In some cases their own families turned them in because of the shame their pregnancy would bring on the family.

All part of that subjugation and control.

Can't understand why there is any debate over an investigation,surely it's a given.You discover a mass grave of all things an investigation starts immediately surely to God?

Is there a debate? I really don't see how one could object in any way to one.

Flippyfloppy

If anyone missed it here it the petition started here on boards yesterday calling for an investigation

https://secure.avaaz.org/en/petition/Frances_Fitzgerald_Irish_Minister_for_Justice_and_Equality_A_full_Gardai_investigation_into_the_mass_grave_in_Tuam_Co_Ga/

Daith

snaphook wrote: »

This is one of the most significant discoveries in the history of the state.

Kudos to historian Catherine Corless on her work here.
It is our national holocaust.

And fair play to our national broadcasters and media for highlighting this story. Right?