New minister for Education?

Rocket_Man

whiteandlight wrote: »

I know nothing about this woman. Any insight anyone?

Experienced hardworking politician. More 'safe pair of hands' than radical reformer, but maybe that's what we need right now? Started her career as a protegee of the late Jim Kemmy in Limerick. Has shadowed Education and worked as a Montessori teacher in the past so would have a good knowledge and understanding of the area.

MrJones1973

Has she ever expressed a view on new JC? probably not. Thank God it wasnt Sherlock. Thank God it was not John Bruton.or leo.Though Tis well to remember Thatcher came into office reading the Prayer of Francis Of Assisi and nobody thought it was a piss take.Cowen was hailed as very bright etc. So We await and see. Its hard to predict how anyone will react when they get power . The Neo educationalists have sway in the Department so it depends on her reaction.

Our main hope is Labour decide to stop pissing off Public servants. She will offer some compromise that is for certain because she doesnt have the arrogance of Quinn.

evolving_doors

I think the most telling thing will be who she appoints as advisors... I presume Ruairi's ones go with him or do they stay?
If so will they be media spinners or people with a knowledge of education?

whiteandlight

Would we be so lucky that those two news spinner would F off entirely? I'm so tired of the teacher bashing and media bias

endakenny

doc_17 wrote: »

When Labour passed FEMPI and reneged on Croke Park I'd say that was it when it came to voting for Labour in the eyes of public sector workers. And rightly so.

The Croke Park Agreement was going to expire in a few months anyway.

linguist

The bottom line is that education didn't did one word in today. Nothing! There was no reference to it in the Taoiseach's speech and nothing in Joan Burton's speech either. Nor has there been a single mention of it over the past week or so except for the speculation about who the new minister would be.

We could either look at this as a positive or a negative. Perhaps getting the JCSA over the line is now simply not the priority it was. It seems that politicians with an eye to the next election are much more worried again about the traditional issues such as teacher numbers in small schools and keeping those schools open etc. Whilst I can't see any more frontline cuts to education in the offing, it's also possible that we will lag behind the stated priority areas in getting the cuts rolled back.

What's really bugging me is the way so much is being made of the capital budget. It's not that we don't need new schools - it's that focusing on the capital budget is all about creating jobs for builders as opposed to what will actually go on inside their walls when they're built.

Putting on my optimist's hat, I'd like to believe we will get something out of the next budget but the unions need to get their fingers out. I can't see an improvement in the ptr just yet, but I get the feeling the cut to guidance has been well flagged as something that has done real harm, particular in regard to cyber bullying and suicide which the Government - to be fair - does care about. I've a feeling we'll see the ex-quota guidance post go back in, possibly in schools with over 500/600 students initially - that would cover a lot of schools in urban disadvantaged areas. I think something will give there. I just don't like the way there wasn't a word about education today. That should worry us.

gaiscioch

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Has she ever expressed a view on new JC? probably not. Thank God it wasnt Sherlock. Thank God it was not John Bruton.or leo.Though Tis well to remember Thatcher came into office reading the Prayer of Francis Of Assisi and nobody thought it was a piss take.Cowen was hailed as very bright etc. So We await and see. Its hard to predict how anyone will react when they get power . The Neo educationalists have sway in the Department so it depends on her reaction.

Our main hope is Labour decide to stop pissing off Public servants. She will offer some compromise that is for certain because she doesnt have the arrogance of Quinn.

*Shudder*

evolving_doors

Ya twas quiet enough Linguist, although I think new ministers rarely set out their stall untill the all knowing advisors have been consulted. We'll probably be waiting till the dail is back and the spin stars to fly again.

Id say Jan will be mulling over the JSCA over the next few weeks as itll take a bit of untangling if she wants to get teachers on board, it would be easier to announce tweekings to that rather than any other more expensive issues.
The JCSA is the headline grabber moreso than PTR or cuts here and there (theyll be left till the budget I would imagine, as she probably hasnt sussed out finance dept yet

dambarude

Education did get a mention in the 'new' focus for the Government:

We will publish, for the information of parents, a summary of the performance of all
schools. In the Autumn, we will publish a consultation paper on increasing the autonomy
and accountability of our schools. We will pass legislation to reform school admissions to
make them fairer, more transparent and more inclusive.

Not too happy that of all the aspects of the Ed system they could have focused on, this is what we get. Sounds dangerously like a variation of league tables.

MrJones1973

endakenny wrote: »

The Croke Park Agreement was going to expire in a few months anyway.

They started breaking it almost a year out.

MrJones1973

Jan was a reasonably good choice but she came out and said Reform will continue but she would be pragmatic-something along those lines. Which is the equivalent of saying " Beatings will continue until morale improves" We will see a compromise offered but mark my words it will seek teachers to correct own pupils so its up to members. Some members on these threads are for this. These people can be called "Pro war"

evolving_doors

Yup looks like league tables based on those statements..although it could mean making the WsE results more public... If it is league tables or ofsted style measurement then welcome to increased ghettoisation. Things are bad enough as they are based on transfer rates to college.

Giving the schools more autonomy.... I think someone mooted that on here before... Does that mean that schools are given a lump sum for everything (wages, light heat, resource,sna,admin,maintenence etc) ? Can't see what else it means really.. Possibly end up creating a business consultant of some type being hired to manage along side the principal.

That document doesn't sound encouraging. Who cooked this one up?

endakenny

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Jan was a reasonably good choice but she came out and said Reform will continue but she would be pragmatic-something along those lines. Which is the equivalent of saying " Beatings will continue until morale improves" We will see a compromise offered but mark my words it will seek teachers to correct own pupils so its up to members. Some members on these threads are for this. These people can be called "Pro war"

Before he resigned, Quinn said that there would be a form of external quality assurance along the lines of what is done with examinations in colleges of further education. Surely, this would maintain the integrity of the JCSA.

MrJones1973

endakenny wrote: »

Before he resigned, Quinn said that there would be a form of external quality assurance along the lines of what is done with examinations in colleges of further education. Surely, this would maintain the integrity of the JCSA.

Im not sure how familiar you are with the JC? How would allowing students to take work home-work which will form part of their final mark-keep the integrity of the JC. At home-the Internet,Parents ,Grinds etc can all play a part. Or I could decide to write a chunk. The externs wont go through every exam-just a tiny percentage. Im not even sure if they will deal with all subjects?
There is more emotional attachment between Teacher/pupil than at 3rd level. I dont think you have students who act the total maggot at Third level then expect you to be "Professional"

Anyway go onto TES forums in the UK and hear the " wonderful Stories" about how this system has work. Students who cant string a sentence of English Together-getting a C.
In current JC every paper is marked externally and far away from interfering hands.

endakenny

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

How would allowing students to take work home-work which will form part of their final mark-keep the integrity of the JC.

Is that definitely going to be the case with the JCSA?

rainbowtrout

endakenny wrote: »

Is that definitely going to be the case with the JCSA?

No, nobody knows.

Currently students have to do 2 out of 3 experiments assigned by SEC for JC Science coursework which goes away for correction with exam. They fill in their write up into a coursework booklet. Mine are not allowed to take them home. They do the write up in class time and very occasionally for those that are falling behind they get put into a room at lunch to finish the write up/ collect the booklet if they have a free class and do it then. But the booklet does not leave the school.

I would imagine schools could adopt this approach to coursework in other subjects.

I don't agree with teachers correcting JC exams and there being no external monitoring though.

doc_17

endakenny wrote: »

The Croke Park Agreement was going to expire in a few months anyway.

Irrelevant. And that didn't make it right to cut our pay and increase our working hours.

Pwpane

rainbowtrout wrote: »

No, nobody knows.

Currently students have to do 2 out of 3 experiments assigned by SEC for JC Science coursework which goes away for correction with exam. They fill in their write up into a coursework booklet. Mine are not allowed to take them home. They do the write up in class time and very occasionally for those that are falling behind they get put into a room at lunch to finish the write up/ collect the booklet if they have a free class and do it then. But the booklet does not leave the school.

I would imagine schools could adopt this approach to coursework in other subjects.

I don't agree with teachers correcting JC exams and there being no external monitoring though.

Other teachers photocopy these booklets for pupils to use to write a first draft of their reports. These often go home. I think the DES recognise this practice - I seem to recall an instruction that the original booklets will not be replaced but may be photocopied for practice purposes.

endakenny

rainbowtrout wrote: »

No, nobody knows.

Currently students have to do 2 out of 3 experiments assigned by SEC for JC Science coursework which goes away for correction with exam. They fill in their write up into a coursework booklet. Mine are not allowed to take them home. They do the write up in class time and very occasionally for those that are falling behind they get put into a room at lunch to finish the write up/ collect the booklet if they have a free class and do it then. But the booklet does not leave the school.

I would imagine schools could adopt this approach to coursework in other subjects.

I don't agree with teachers correcting JC exams and there being no external monitoring though.

The terminal exam in JCSA English (60% of the marks) will still be corrected externally.

endakenny

doc_17 wrote: »

Irrelevant. And that didn't make it right to cut our pay and increase our working hours.

Those still would have happened under Haddington Road even if Croke Park had been allowed to run for the remaining few months. What difference do a few months make?!

rainbowtrout

endakenny wrote: »

Those still would have happened under Haddington Road even if Croke Park had been allowed to run for the remaining few months. What difference do a few months make?!

Because we signed up to an agreement which stated that we would do more work in return for no pay cuts for the duration of the croke park agreement. We kept our side of the deal. The government didn't. So how can they be trusted to keep their side of any future deal when they broke the current one so easily?

You could just as easily look at it from the teacher side and say 'what difference would a few months make?' And left CP run its course with any subsequent agreement to come into effect when CP expired

rainbowtrout

endakenny wrote: »

The terminal exam in JCSA English (60% of the marks) will still be corrected externally.

For the time being. The plan mooted was that the core subjects would still be run by SEC but once it's all up to speed it could be handed over to teachers to do themselves

doc_17

endakenny wrote: »

Those still would have happened under Haddington Road even if Croke Park had been allowed to run for the remaining few months. What difference do a few months make?!

Yeah you're chatting pure rubbish. Pure and utter rubbish. Agreements matter. And when one side breaks it they shouldn't be allowed to just say "ah uses it was out to anyway". It had almost a year to run.

MacGyver007

The new minister has said that she intends to keep going with Junior Cycle reform

http://www.newstalk.ie/New-Education-Minister-to-press-ahead-with-Junior-Cert-reform

whiteandlight

Might I suggest that everyone pops an email to her outlining their concerns?

One in particular, is she not on holidays now until mid September? How exactly is that going to help the roll out?

Boober Fraggle

That's disappointing. If she wants to have meaningful discussions with teachers I would suggest she doesn't say she is pressing ahead regardless in the same sentence.

MrJones1973

So do we fight or roll over again? Her e mail address is
jan.osullivan@oireachtas.ie

Im not totally surprised-they replace a 68 year old with a 64 year old? One old wan for another?

Im wondering why she got the nod? Female? It cant be because she has ideas?

In the end Labour dont give a fxxxx about teachers nor FG. I was an FG voter-they can kiss my vote goodbye. Lab wont get my number 2.

So do we fight? I have a parachute out of this shyte which I will use if again the ASTI fails to grow a pair...

my last post here on this!

evolving_doors

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

So do we fight or roll over again? Her e mail address is
jan.osullivan@oireachtas.ie

Im not totally surprised-they replace a 68 year old with a 64 year old? One old wan for another?

Im wondering why she got the nod? Female? It cant be because she has ideas?

In the end Labour dont give a fxxxx about teachers nor FG. I was an FG voter-they can kiss my vote goodbye. Lab wont get my number 2.

So do we fight? I have a parachute out of this shyte which I will use if again the ASTI fails to grow a pair...


my last post here on this!

Yup email sent for what its worth, if she wants to be an aloof xxxxxx like RQ and just walk all over the irish education system then the least I can do is annoy her office. I also queried the ghettoisation of schools with the proposals to introduce performance tables.
Emailed local TD's too and said basically if they want my vote then all they have to do is raise either matter in public.
Simple...raise a question and get my vote.

This education system has gone to pot.

Anyone know if new 'advisors' have been appointed ?

killbillvol2

Armelodie wrote: »

Yup email sent for what its worth, if she wants to be an aloof xxxxxx like RQ and just walk all over the irish education system then the least I can do is annoy her office. I also queried the ghettoisation of schools with the proposals to introduce performance tables.
Emailed local TD's too and said basically if they want my vote then all they have to do is raise either matter in public.
Simple...raise a question and get my vote.

This education system has gone to pot.

Anyone know if new 'advisors' have been appointed ?

It's interesting that the odious Michael Gove was sacked by Cameron principally because of his "toxic" relationship with teachers and teacher unions. Our unions have been too cosy with too many governments for too long and I don't see it changing any time soon while the leadership is basically protected from the consequences of their inaction.

evolving_doors

killbillvol2 wrote: »

It's interesting that the odious Michael Gove was sacked by Cameron principally because of his "toxic" relationship with teachers and teacher unions. Our unions have been too cosy with too many governments for too long and I don't see it changing any time soon while the leadership is basically protected from the consequences of their inaction.

Ya i'd just wonder if there is a clear agenda from civil servants inside the dept. no sooner has the appt. been made and its carry on the same message of 'stroppy teachers don't know what's good for them'.

And the bowing down by the union heads has brought us to where we are today. Is it the same old ding dong from them too? I heard the Into and TUI heads discussing RQ's great contribution and reforming legacy around the day of his ' retirement'. I nearly choked on my sandwich.