New minister for Education?

Rocket_Man

dambarude wrote: »

There's a lot of talk of Labour getting the Jobs portfolio, which could mean that education moves to Fine Gael. If Eamon Gilmore goes to Europe, we could be lucky and get Phil Hogan as Education minister. Or even James Reilly perhaps. :pac:

Don't!! Not even in jest......

I'd imagine Joan will want the Jobs portfolio alright which will necessitate some kind of a swap.

With Gilmore leaving though can more likely see them surrendering the Foreign Affairs brief.

MrJones1973

Bruton would be worse than Sherlock. Is Anti teacher. Give me any of the others.

MrJones1973

rainbowtrout wrote: »

FETAC courses can be at a number of levels. PLC is normally Level 5 or Level 6. We offer Level 5 in my school, which would be the most common award around the country. Some adult education centres, would offer levels lower than this as would some schools for a certain cohort of students, as would Youth Reach centres.

FETAC modules have a list of specific objectives, there is a marking scheme that has to be adhered to and projects/exams have to include certain components to meet the guidelines of these marking sheets.

Discipline issues generally don't exist as students are 17+ and choose to be there of their own accord. Attendance is more of an issue than discipline. I suspect other FETAC tutors would agree.

I know of other schools that offer FETAC at Level 2, 3, 4 for students that would not manage Junior/Leaving Cert and seem to be doing so successfully. There is still external monitoring at this level.

My timetable varies but typically one third to half my timetable is FETAC, the rest of my timetable is mainstream with mainly LC classes. I rarely get JC as it doesn't fit on my timetable.

I am the PLC co-ordinator. I have a Special Duties post in school so I get paid for it. FETAC co-ordinator is not about co-ordinating subjects, it's about co-ordianting assessment, attendance, administration.
Also tutors teaching Level 5 FETAC modules get paid to assess each portfolio. The fee (taxed of course) is typically between €10-18 per subject, per student.

I never once said that I agreed with the Junior Cert method of assessment. I don't agree with marking our own students, particularly without external assessment. What I am saying is that in FETAC there is a specified assessment procedure in place and that is backed up with external assessment. And it does work. No doubt there are teachers within the system that help students, that also exists at LC level as you have suggested with History.

If history projects are being flagged as teacher work to the Department and nothing is done about it then there is something seriously wrong at the Dept of Ed and that is something that needs to be investigated and fixed.

All of that is really helpful. I dont doubt your professionalism. I think FETEC is more for adult students. Would I be right in saying the relationship with secondary students might be more pastoral than your your job and thats where the difficulties come . When you teach a child there is more of an emotional bond and it can be hard to mark down a student whom you might be aware of personal problems or mark up a student who caused havoc.
While I like the idea of clear objectives-its coming up with class plans that work. It will be hard getting time to design a course and mark it. We have been loaded with extra initiatives so much that I would love just to be able to teach. ie in my last term I was designing a Graduation mass-finishing the literacy programme and arranging registration for students (tutor stuff). I had to ditch teaching time to do a lot of this.
LCVP is somewhat similar with objectives and God is it hard to get kids to do the project work. Some run at the chance but others drag it out and produce crap work. Thus I think the Department have this notion that the weaker kids will be enthusiastic for Project work-they wont be.
However Im willing to give it a go so long as the projects are limited percentage wise and then extend it out-if it works.

MrJones1973

This is where we are headed unless this JC beast is killed:

http://www.learningspy.co.uk/education/why-do-so-many-teachers-leave-teaching/

rainbowtrout

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

All of that is really helpful. I dont doubt your professionalism. I think FETEC is more for adult students. Would I be right in saying the relationship with secondary students might be more pastoral than your your job and thats where the difficulties come . When you teach a child there is more of an emotional bond and it can be hard to mark down a student whom you might be aware of personal problems or mark up a student who caused havoc.
While I like the idea of clear objectives-its coming up with class plans that work. It will be hard getting time to design a course and mark it. We have been loaded with extra initiatives so much that I would love just to be able to teach. ie in my last term I was designing a Graduation mass-finishing the literacy programme and arranging registration for students (tutor stuff). I had to ditch teaching time to do a lot of this.
LCVP is somewhat similar with objectives and God is it hard to get kids to do the project work. Some run at the chance but others drag it out and produce crap work. Thus I think the Department have this notion that the weaker kids will be enthusiastic for Project work-they wont be.
However Im willing to give it a go so long as the projects are limited percentage wise and then extend it out-if it works.

PLC less pastoral than secondary. No, not at all. Not everyone in PLC is a 17 year old straight out of Leaving Cert. There are also mature students who come with their own set of problems: long term unemployment, early school leavers, single parents, alcoholism, depression, lack of academic qualifications, marital problems, financial problems, health problems, people trying to juggle a full time course while holding down a part time/ full time job, childcare. I've heard it all and they come to me to talk as the co-ordinator.

They are still graded fairly. I also teach Ag Science which has had LC projects graded by teachers for years and then moderated by externs. I don't mark students up or down based on what I know of their background.

I would be of the opinion that teaching time should not lose out to those duties.

gaiscioch

Can we have a thoughtful, philosophical soul as Minister for Education? Somebody who "gets" education as something which not only has the ability to break poverty cycles but can be life-changing and life-enhancing for us all.

Two major problems

On the student side:

1) Far too many students have their strong points overlooked by the academically-focused school system which we currently have. Howard Gardner estimated that there are seven or eight types of intelligence, yet the system is overwhelmingly focused on the academic/linguistic/mathematical side of things. We should be able to create a system which can give a similar emphasis to, for instance, the strengths of visual learners and people with high kinesthetic intelligence. Acknowledging and nurturing those strengths would change the self-esteem level and confidence of so many kids who think all sorts of negative things about themselves because they are being assessed by an education system which ironically uses a narrow-minded definition of "intelligence". To my eyes this is the most fundamental institutional inequality facing students in Irish schools.

On the teacher side:

1) The current system for recruiting and training teachers is not fit for purpose. A smarter system which can ensure teaching gives teachers a livelihood, rather than part-time hours, is ethically what a new Minister should be aiming for. The current system demeans everybody, but is entirely of the making of the Department of Education. With will, they can change it.

dambarude

Rocket_Man wrote: »

Don't!! Not even in jest......

I couldn't resist, sorry!

MrJones1973

rainbowtrout wrote: »

PLC less pastoral than secondary. No, not at all. Not everyone in PLC is a 17 year old straight out of Leaving Cert. There are also mature students who come with their own set of problems: long term unemployment, early school leavers, single parents, alcoholism, depression, lack of academic qualifications, marital problems, financial problems, health problems, people trying to juggle a full time course while holding down a part time/ full time job, childcare. I've heard it all and they come to me to talk as the co-ordinator.

They are still graded fairly. I also teach Ag Science which has had LC projects graded by teachers for years and then moderated by externs. I don't mark students up or down based on what I know of their background.

I would be of the opinion that teaching time should not lose out to those duties.[/QUOTE

Very informative. As regards the last line-when should these other duties be done? The one free class I might have a day? With regards Tutorship-it has to be done when I can locate students and thats in class time. Most teachers do unpaid Tutorship and in our school its only kicked upstairs to year head when its serious. No scheduled periods to do it.Regarding the Mass-I use to do it on my weekends but given cutbacks -I decided not to do it in my spare time. Its voluntary, If I dont do-it just does not get done.
Only so much spare time in a day-something has to give... Sorry about the bold but for some reason using your reply as a quote didnt work.

MrJones1973

gaiscioch wrote: »

Can we have a thoughtful, philosophical soul as Minister for Education? Somebody who "gets" education as something which not only has the ability to break poverty cycles but can be life-changing and life-enhancing for us all.

Two major problems

On the student side:

1) Far too many students have their strong points overlooked by the academically-focused school system which we currently have. Howard Gardner estimated that there are seven or eight types of intelligence, yet the system is overwhelmingly focused on the academic/linguistic/mathematical side of things. We should be able to create a system which can give a similar emphasis to, for instance, the strengths of visual learners and people with high kinesthetic intelligence. Acknowledging and nurturing those strengths would change the self-esteem level and confidence of so many kids who think all sorts of negative things about themselves because they are being assessed by an education system which ironically uses a narrow-minded definition of "intelligence". To my eyes this is the most fundamental institutional inequality facing students in Irish schools.

On the teacher side:

1) The current system for recruiting and training teachers is not fit for purpose. A smarter system which can ensure teaching gives teachers a livelihood, rather than part-time hours, is ethically what a new Minister should be aiming for. The current system demeans everybody, but is entirely of the making of the Department of Education. With will, they can change it.

I agree with all of the above but we need to acknowledge students who dont give a fxxx about anything . With large class sizes and no supports it can be very difficult to motivate these students. A lot of them just want to sleep. The New JC-puts a lot of onus on them to be creative and being creative requires work.

evolving_doors

Sherlock seems to be in the top....



Any thoughts on the possibility of Simon Covney or Richard Bruton getting it(leaving aside whether they would be any good).. both of these would have aspirations for Taoiseach in the future (well john did in the past anyhow!!). But don't know if Education is ever a good route to this...

MrJones1973

Im going to go cold tukey on this thread. It doesnt matter who is Minister for Education-they could put in rent a crank Ed walsh for all I care-it matters whether you want to oppose the New JC or not. It matters whether you will accept a compromise. A Uk system without UK resources. We can all show how heroic we are in the classroom -how much extra hours we do-but trust me the shyte will hit the fan if this comes in.

spurious

I have a feeling it might be Kathleen Lynch.
Don't know anything about her I must say, but you'd want to be fairly extraordinarily bad to be worse than Ruairi.

evolving_doors

Mod snip: be careful about stating things as fact if a legal outcome has ruled otherwise.

gaiscioch

How about Aodhán Ó Ríordáin, a former teacher? Then again Brian Hayes was a former teacher - ouch.

I suppose they're going to see what seat they have most chance of keeping at the next election (they're "in danger of losing" them all) and give the holder a high profile now by appointing her/him. Such are the considerations...

killbillvol2

gaiscioch wrote: »

How about Aodhán Ó Ríordáin, a former teacher? Then again Brian Hayes was a former teacher - ouch.

I suppose they're going to see what seat they have most chance of keeping at the next election (they're "in danger of losing" them all) and give the holder a high profile now by appointing her/him. Such are the considerations...

I'm glad to see he's a real outsider in the betting. His self-publicity machine seems to have stalled somewhat of late.

brooke 2

dambarude wrote: »

There's a lot of talk of Labour getting the Jobs portfolio, which could mean that education moves to Fine Gael. If Eamon Gilmore goes to Europe, we could be lucky and get Phil Hogan as Education minister. Or even James Reilly perhaps. :pac:

Phil Hogan is going to Europe according to Pat Leahy who has 'soft' information
about it!

MrJones1973

Its going to be Aodhán O!

evolving_doors

Mrwhite1970 wrote: »

Its going to be Aodhán O!

FYP ... or else you really meant Aengus ó Snodaigh!

Icsics

Kathleen Lynch.......

spurious

Icsics wrote: »

Kathleen Lynch.......

That's who I thought - anything official yet?

Boeing777

Jan O'Sullivan is the current name being linked to the job.

derb12

Very interesting ... a minister who attended a fee-paying protestant ethos school - a sector particularly hard hit by her predecessor.
Was hoping it'd go to FG as there'd be more of a chance that some of RQ's ideas might be discontinued, but here's hoping!

annamarie2013

Sean O Rourke saying she long touted for Education!

spurious

Looks like Jan O'Sullivan got it.
Link

rainbowtrout

derb12 wrote: »

Very interesting ... a minister who attended a fee-paying protestant ethos school - a sector particularly hard hit by her predecessor.
Was hoping it'd go to FG as there'd be more of a chance that some of RQ's ideas might be discontinued, but here's hoping!

I don't see why that should matter, she probably didn't get a say in where she went to school and she attended the only protestant school in Limerick City. It wouldn't be that uncommon.

Her daughter went to my school. Local convent school, has a catchment area part of which would be considered highly disadvantaged.

Peter Flynt

A 63 year old replaces a 68 year old. . . Nice to see the younger generation coming up in the ranks

Darwin

I see the new minister was a supporter of the Education Is Not for Sale campaign:

http://www.tcd.ie/info/staffrepresentation/asaifut/ENFS/

which was to include 'the defence of jobs and conditions in our educational institutions'. I see also Senator Ivana Bacik's name mentioned here too, a keen supporter of the FEMPI legislation and the public service pensions bill.

I really hope Labour get annihilated in the next election.

doc_17

When Labour passed FEMPI and reneged on Croke Park I'd say that was it when it came to voting for Labour in the eyes of public sector workers. And rightly so.

happywithlife

Well it is official - just announced in the dail it's jan o Sullivan

whiteandlight

I know nothing about this woman. Any insight anyone?