Tragic yet worrying scenes in waterford last night

LorMal · 17-05-2014 12:01am

whupdedo wrote: »

A quick painless death would suffice also, they are worthless to society, they wouldn't be missed

Spoken like a true nazi

LorMal · 17-05-2014 12:06am

TheDoctor wrote: »

Amazing how I was chastised earlier for not feeling sympathy for the deceased. I was told how this was all a big misunderstanding and how the poor child (18 year old) had no idea what he was doing.

Epitome of burying the head in the sand.

Pathetic effort of self justication where you corrupt the opinion of others to strengthen your argument. You probably won't understand what I am referring to so don't worry about it.

mrsbyrne · 17-05-2014 12:08am

knucklehead6 wrote: »

Justify it all you want, that's still scumbaggish behaviour in my book. Not quite the level of the intimidation etc that went on last night but scumbaggish all the same.

Your equating a bunch of louts disturbing the peace and vandalising a residential street physically asaulting sn innocent citizen and terrifying his family, with someone looking at the public Facebook page of someone whose name is freely available on the Internet because he died during the same violent anti social incident.
Do you see that one thing is "scumbaggish" and the other is not?

LorMal · 17-05-2014 12:10am

thirdtime wrote: »

I think Jamie Ducey's parents (or rather mother) should apologise to society for doing such a lousy job in raising a son.

Certain sections of Irish society are 'sick'.
I'm tired of liberal defending the utter scumbags such as Ducey

She should apologise for their dead son?? When? Tonight? Or at the funeral? To you personally or to all the blameless perfect people?

Are you going to tell her that her dead son was an utter scumbag while she is apologising?

johnmacward · 17-05-2014 12:10am

So it's a fact that he was "just a scumbag" or maybe just people's disgusting opinion. I know very little about this kid / teenager / young man but I'm going to assume he was of the lower classes. "Scumbag" is a typical term used for them.

What is a scumbag? Is it a technical way to offer insight into a type of genuinely violent and malevolent person or a form of racism against the poor.

I'd like to coin a new term - classism. Like racism but against the dejected and poor working class who for some, do what they do out of a lifetime of hatred, of poverty, of violent abuse and abuse by the law, of pure desperation, of no hope.

You who use this word "scumbag" are similar to any racist group in history. You've never lived with these people and gone through their daily life and experiences but you're sure you just know they're savages in the genes that need "lessons taught to them" and "justice met upon them". Sickens me to listen to this ****. It was the same the aristocracy saw of the poor while they greedily held every penny of wealth - "they steal, lie, cheat and can't be trusted".

I wonder why?

mrsbyrne · 17-05-2014 12:13am

thirdtime wrote: »

I think Jamie Ducey's parents (or rather mother) should apologise to society for doing such a lousy job in raising a son.

Certain sections of Irish society are 'sick'.
I'm tired of liberal defending the utter scumbags such as Ducey

Now you are trying to outdo one another with shocking statements of outrage. Soon you'll want his body paraded through the streets for public ridicule. Leave it. He was 18. He's dead. A stupid kid. Nobody wins.

LorMal · 17-05-2014 12:15am

damienirel wrote: »

Your being trolled by a bunch of idiots that's why! Better off ignoring them - waterford/ireland/planet earth is at no great loss after the chain of events in Dungarvan - pity things like this didn't happen more often. Irish people are obsessed with being polite about the dead and treat the live with utter contempt - it's in our messed up culture, something I never understood about growing up in Ireland - how people flock to funerals but barely bid the time of day to each other while the deceased was alive - pathetic!

There is a messed up culture and your post epitomises it

knucklehead6 · 17-05-2014 12:29am

mrsbyrne wrote: »

Your equating a bunch of louts disturbing the peace and vandalising a residential street physically asaulting sn innocent citizen and terrifying his family, with someone looking at the public Facebook page of someone whose name is freely available on the Internet because he died during the same violent anti social incident.
Do you see that one thing is "scumbaggish" and the other is not?

Did you see the part where I said NOT QUITE TO THE SAME LEVEL? Please explain to me how that means I am equating it?

Both are scummy things to do. But as I said, posting images from the dead lads Facebook page onto a seperate site in some desperate patethic attempt to score points, is (and I'll put this in capitals again, just for you) NOT QUITE TO THE SAME LEVEL as the intimidation that went on.

Mountainsandh · 17-05-2014 1:04am

thirdtime wrote: »

I think Jamie Ducey's parents (or rather mother) should apologise to society for doing such a lousy job in raising a son.

Certain sections of Irish society are 'sick'.
I'm tired of liberal defending the utter scumbags such as Ducey

I understand that stance, I think it too for fleeting moments, regularly.
But even without being a liberal as you term it, I can see how there's more to a person than just the projection of what they are to society.

Scumbags are not just that. They're rarely all scumbag. They do scumbaggy things, they get quagmired into it, to a point where you feel there's nothing can be done for them, and it can be infuriating.
But if you are in contact with them, you realize there's more to them than just scumbag, there's a person there that could have turned out different. There's always a hope they might, and so it's very sad imo when they die young.

You try it, talk to a scumbag some day, but not in a conflict situation, you might just see the person behind the bravado/insecurity/defensiveness.

I agree some parents give up too early on their kids, or simply don't do their job. Some do try though, but too late.

There was more than just scum bag in this young man. It pains me to read the comments here.

For information the area they were hanging around is a main thoroughfare, leading to some estates where some girlfriends, and some friends and friends' families live. It's not unlikely that they were just hanging around there on their way to a house party or something, up to no good on the way smashing bottles and damaging cars, and it just happened the Garda's house was on the way.

mrsbyrne · 17-05-2014 1:35am

knucklehead6 wrote: »

Did you see the part where I said NOT QUITE TO THE SAME LEVEL? Please explain to me how that means I am equating it?

Both are scummy things to do. But as I said, posting images from the dead lads Facebook page onto a seperate site in some desperate patethic attempt to score points, is (and I'll put this in capitals again, just for you) NOT QUITE TO THE SAME LEVEL as the intimidation that went on.

Sorry. No . Its nowhere near the same level. There's no comparison. What those youths were doing in that street last night was not "scummy" . It was criminal. Having a poke in someone's public social media page is not criminal, no matter how you twist it. That's just ridiculous.

Dilly. · 17-05-2014 1:46am

edit: Took poster up completely wrong

Tony EH · 17-05-2014 1:48am

mrsbyrne wrote: »

Sorry. No . Its nowhere near the same level. There's no comparison. What those youths were doing in that street last night was not "scummy" . It was criminal. Having a poke in someone's public social media page is not criminal, no matter how you twist it. That's just ridiculous.

It's not even on the same barometer.

mrsbyrne · 17-05-2014 1:53am

Dilly. wrote: »

While i can see where you are coming from in the rest of your post this line just doesn't sit well with me and maybe its coming across in a way that you didn't intend it to, as if the garda is in someway responsible for what happened or something.

That's not how it comes across to me. Mountain is saying I think, that the gang didn't intentionally target a gardas house, as had been implied in the media earlier yesterday.
The garda coming out to defend his family and property and being assaulted in the process is all just a part of a tragic incident

Dilly. · 17-05-2014 1:56am

mrsbyrne wrote: »

That's not how it comes across to me. Mountain is saying I think, that the gang didn't intentionally target a gardas house, as had been implied in the media earlier yesterday.
The garda coming out to defend his family and property and being assaulted in the process is all just a part of a tragic incident

Apologies, i hadn't seen earlier reports, that makes more sense!

gctest50 · 17-05-2014 1:58am

knucklehead6 wrote: »

Did you see the part where I said NOT QUITE TO THE SAME LEVEL? Please explain to me how that means I am equating it?

Both are scummy things to do. But as I said, posting images from the dead lads Facebook page onto a seperate site in some desperate patethic attempt to score points, is (and I'll put this in capitals again, just for you) NOT QUITE TO THE SAME LEVEL as the intimidation that went on.

Intimidation ?

It is understood that he caught up with one of the youths on the Clonea Road some 400 to 500 metres from his house, identified himself as a garda to the youth and was engaged in conversation with him, when he was struck on the head from behind with a bottle.
A father of four, Supt Lacey suffered a serious wound to the back of his head and it’s understood that he was taken to Waterford Regional Hospital for treatment where he received seven staples to the wound before he was discharged and returned home

bravestar · 17-05-2014 2:05am

johnmacward wrote: »

So it's a fact that he was "just a scumbag" or maybe just people's disgusting opinion. I know very little about this kid / teenager / young man but I'm going to assume he was of the lower classes. "Scumbag" is a typical term used for them.

What is a scumbag? Is it a technical way to offer insight into a type of genuinely violent and malevolent person or a form of racism against the poor.

I'd like to coin a new term - classism. Like racism but against the dejected and poor working class who for some, do what they do out of a lifetime of hatred, of poverty, of violent abuse and abuse by the law, of pure desperation, of no hope.

You who use this word "scumbag" are similar to any racist group in history. You've never lived with these people and gone through their daily life and experiences but you're sure you just know they're savages in the genes that need "lessons taught to them" and "justice met upon them". Sickens me to listen to this ****. It was the same the aristocracy saw of the poor while they greedily held every penny of wealth - "they steal, lie, cheat and can't be trusted".

I wonder why?

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. Oh sorry, that's probably duckism, since I've never lived with ducks or known what they go through...

Mountainsandh · 17-05-2014 2:11am

That's complete speculation, but I would be inclined to think that Jamie was the youth in that conversation, and that the bottle was used as a weapon by another of that gang, simply because the guard, who likely knew all of them by name, must have indicated Jamie was missing for the search to start (and so quickly). He wouldn't have seen who struck him (the guard).

Then again he could have seen who struck him right after it happened, and given the list of 4 people involved.

Mountainsandh · 17-05-2014 2:15am

bravestar wrote: »

If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. Oh sorry, that's probably duckism, since I've never lived with ducks or known what they go through...

Big difference between ducks and humans.

Humans tend to be more multi faceted than ducks... in my experience.

If you take that perspective with others then you must be happy enough when others label you, and one dimension you too, without appeal or conditions.

bajer101 · 17-05-2014 2:29am

I've just finished reading all of the comments on this thread and I am astounded by a lot of the comments and by the mindsets of some of the posters. This story has struck a chord with me as I lived in Abbeyside, Dungarvan for three years up to 2009, but I originally hail from the Artane/Coolock area of Dublin.

Reading the comments, I was struck by two things. Firstly, the absolute lack of humanity from some posters, and their dismissal of the loss of a human life as, "good riddance". The second thing I was struck by was the implicit belief by nearly all posters that the press reports of events is an accurate report of what actually happened.

Before I comment on these two points I'd like to make one point - Dungarvan is not Coolock, or Clondalkin. There are no roaming troves of teenagers who would threaten you. I lived right across the road from where this happened and if a group of youngfellas were smashing bottles outside my family home, I would have gone out to them and told them to fúck off - but it is highly unlikely that anyone would have died. Dungarvan just does not have the level of "scummers" that people posting on this thread wish had died!

Anyhoos, back to my first point - the inhumanity. How people can rejoice in the death of another human being is beyond me. You've said that you are not rejoicing - just that you just don't care. That is still beyond me. Someone has died! Can you not get your head around that? An 18 year old is just gone! All his life experiences. Every picture that he brought home from school that was stuck on the fridge. Every connection he made with so many people. Everything he learned. Everything that he experienced in life - just puff - gone. And you celebrate that? I'll ask one question to TheDoctor who has been so vocal in this thread. If you were born into his family, would you have behaved so differently that night? !!!

My second point is that everyone is automatically believing as fact the official story of events. Why?

The story of events that the press are reporting is the story that has been provided to them by the Gardai. If the Indo or Times were granted interviews with the three lads in custody - and if they published those stories as fact, would you believe them? I am absolutely astounded that people are still accepting as fact anything that is released by AGS. Has Morris, Smithwick and Guerin taught you nothing? They tell fúckin lies! Dungarvan Garda station is not exactly blemish free. There is still a serious case under investigation by GSOC, AFAIK - where a young man died in custody.

Here's a more likely scenario about how that kid died - . Probably better that I don't post my conjecture. Work it out for yourselves.

mikom · 17-05-2014 2:42am

bajer101 wrote: »

Every picture that he brought home from school that was stuck on the fridge.

Mountainsandh · 17-05-2014 2:46am

I don't personally think there's anything more sinister about the manner in which he died. Pumped up with drugs, alcohol, adrenaline, these fellows don't think, they just act. Free running style, but he didn't realise how steep the ditch was.

mrsbyrne · 17-05-2014 2:46am

bajer101 wrote: »

I've just finished reading all of the comments on this thread and I am astounded by a lot of the comments and by the mindsets of some of the posters. This story has struck a chord with me as I lived in Abbeyside, Dungarvan for three years up to 2009, but I originally hail from the Artane/Coolock area of Dublin.

Reading the comments, I was struck by two things. Firstly, the absolute lack of humanity from some posters, and their dismissal of the loss of a human life as, "good riddance". The second thing I was struck by was the implicit belief by nearly all posters that the press reports of events is an accurate report of what actually happened.

Before I comment on these two points I'd like to make one point - Dungarvan is not Coolock, or Clondalkin. There are no roaming troves of teenagers who would threaten you. I lived right across the road from where this happened and if a group of youngfellas were smashing bottles outside my family home, I would have gone out to them and told them to fúck off - but it is highly unlikely that anyone would have died. Dungarvan just does not have the level of "scummers" that people posting on this thread wish had died!

Anyhoos, back to my first point - the inhumanity. How people can rejoice in the death of another human being is beyond me. You've said that you are not rejoicing - just that you just don't care. That is still beyond me. Someone has died! Can you not get your head around that? An 18 year old is just gone! All his life experiences. Every picture that he brought home from school that was stuck on the fridge. Every connection he made with so many people. Everything he learned. Everything that he experienced in life - just puff - gone. And you celebrate that? I'll ask one question to TheDoctor who has been so vocal in this thread. If you were born into his family, would you have behaved so differently that night? !!!

My second point is that everyone is automatically believing as fact the official story of events. Why?

The story of events that the press are reporting is the story that has been provided to them by the Gardai. If the Indo or Times were granted interviews with the three lads in custody - and if they published those stories as fact, would you believe them? I am absolutely astounded that people are still accepting as fact anything that is released by AGS. Has Morris, Smithwick and Guerin taught you nothing? They tell fúckin lies! Dungarvan Garda station is not exactly blemish free. There is still a serious case under investigation by GSOC, AFAIK - where a young man died in custody.

Here's a more likely scenario about how that kid died - . Probably better that I don't post my conjecture. Work it out for yourselves.

And will the state pathologist and the coroner both be sucked into this conspiracy too? Did the Super beat the boy to death before or after he was hit from behind with a bottle? Or was he not hit with a bottle at all? Or hit by a colleague to may the story fit? Were these kids in actual fact on theircwak home from a Legion of Mary meeting?

mrsbyrne · 17-05-2014 2:48am

mikom wrote: »

Actually the magic mushrooms in particular deserved a gold star. Seriously, he had a talent. What a waste.

Mountainsandh · 17-05-2014 2:49am

[QUOTE=mikom; image [/QUOTE]

You need to get out more if you think that is an unusual pic for a youngster to draw nowadays. Same for the comment on the bottom corner.

mikom · 17-05-2014 2:52am

Mountainsandh wrote: »

You need to get out more if you think that is an unusual pic for a youngster to draw nowadays. Same for the comment on the bottom corner.

What age was he again?

mrsbyrne wrote: »

Actually the magic mushrooms in particular deserved a gold star. Seriously, he had a talent. What a waste.

The highlight for me was the Mitsi with the canna foliage trim.
.
.

Mountainsandh · 17-05-2014 2:56am

17 when he drew it, that's not youngster ? Possibly just turned 18, not youngster after birthday ?

bajer101 · 17-05-2014 2:59am

mikom wrote: »

He's dead! Do you understand the finality of that? I'm talking about his whole life experience? I was talking about the pictures he brought home from school as a kid and that his Mam would have stuck to the fridge. That's just suddenly gone.

As for the "Fúck the law" motif. FFS, that's just teenage rebellion. We all did that. Your kids will do that.

This guy was no major league gangster. There are no serious gangsters in Dungavan. So why and how did he die?

bajer101 · 17-05-2014 3:07am

mrsbyrne wrote: »

And will the state pathologist and the coroner both be sucked into this conspiracy too? Did the Super beat the boy to death before or after he was hit from behind with a bottle? Or was he not hit with a bottle at all? Or hit by a colleague to may the story fit? Were these kids in actual fact on theircwak home from a Legion of Mary meeting?

Who says that's what happened? I really cannot understand why people are automatically believing the AGS version of events. The have been shown to be liars. Dungarvan station are still under investigation over a death in a cell. Have you been paying attention to the news? There is a corrupt core in AGS.

bajer101 · 17-05-2014 3:14am

mrsbyrne wrote: »

Actually the magic mushrooms in particular deserved a gold star. Seriously, he had a talent. What a waste.

Now you get it. The person who drew those pictures is now dead! A human being was born and learned things and experienced so many things and interacted with so many people. And now he is dead. He is a better artist than I will ever be. How you can not mourn that is beyond me. How you can practically rejoice in that is just beyond words.

mrsbyrne · 17-05-2014 3:16am

bajer101 wrote: »

He's dead! Do you understand the finality of that? I'm talking about his whole life experience? I was talking about the pictures he brought home from school as a kid and that his Mam would have stuck to the fridge. That's just suddenly gone.

As for the "Fúck the law" motif. FFS, that's just teenage rebellion. We all did that. Your kids will do that.

This guy was no major league gangster. There are no serious gangsters in Dungavan. So why and how did he die?

Nobody said he was a major gangster. It'll come out at the inquest. Right now it looks as if he and hismstes were making s disturbance on their way from A to B throwing bottles and kicking cars in a residential street. A man came out of his property to challenge them it seems. The gang fled especially when the man got hit with a bottle in the head. This boy jumped over spiked railings in order to make good his escape, not realising the massive drop on the other side. It was pitch dark. They were probably under the influence. It looks as if he was killed in the fall. Possibly even s chance that he somehow drowned in swampy water . That's what it looks like.

Tragic yet worrying scenes in waterford last night

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