"The nicest guy you could meet" Family beg young driver to slow down

crazygeryy

Artful_Badger wrote: »

What do you want them to say ? "He was always nice and kind to us but clearly he was a sack of shít if he stole a car". ?

YES.

RugbyLad11

Can I ask mods why no one is allowed to."joke" in the peach geldof thread when she was a known junkie.


As I said above double standards...

ahnowbrowncow

ressem wrote: »

The 2002 Goodbody figures from which these 2007 values were extrapolated stated
€2,018,126 in Casualty costs
Lost Output
Human costs (Pain and suffering)
Medical costs


€15,882 in the accident costs
Damage to property
Insurance administration
Police Costs

http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/5830-0.pdf

Thanks, there's no breakdown of the €2,018,126 though, I'd like to see how they arrive at the human cost, is it the cost of relatives taking work off etc or is it just a figurative figure???

And it's a bit ridiculous that a thief has an associated output cost when in reality his death has saved the state thousands if he was going to continue living a life of crime.

crazygeryy

scottp68877 wrote: »

I really hope no one on this thread has to go through something like what the family are going through. I can definetly say that you won't be saying he deserved it then when it's your nephew or son.

He stole a bloody car and went for a joy ride.he could have killed your son if you have one or my son.what would you be saying then!
No one deserves to die but for ****s sake stop making light of his actions.
As someone already said the majority of our sons and nephews wouldnt steal cars.

Wabbit Ears

Peaches Geldof was a car thief?

RugbyLad11

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

Peaches Geldof was a car thief?

Probably not seen as she was worth millions but both are illegal. Oh and before you say class a drugs are a victimless crime what if she was driving her car while off her head on herion, not to mention her kids and family who she left behind

seamus

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

what if she was driving her car while off her head on herion

She wasn't. "What if" arguments are meaningless.

ressem

ahnowbrowncow wrote: »

Thanks, there's no breakdown of the €2,018,126 though, I'd like to see how they arrive at the human cost, is it the cost of relatives taking work off etc or is it just a figurative figure???

And it's a bit ridiculous that a thief has an associated output cost when in reality his death has saved the state thousands if he was going to continue living a life of crime.

Lost Output 693,773
Human Costs 1,323,172
Medical 1,181

Property Cost 13,714
Insurance 370
Policing 1,798

http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/12991-CROSS_DEPARTMENTAL_REVIEW_OF_ROAD_SAFETY_EXPENDITURE-0.PDF

Human cost is the statisticians value placed on pain and suffering to the family. Not just effects in visible economic spending.

If they failed to account for this, then many policies and physical road improvements to improve road safety would not have an economic justification.

RugbyLad11

seamus wrote: »

She wasn't. "What if" arguments are meaningless.

Yeah but this kid didn't run any people over did he?

Wibbs

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

Yeah but this kid didn't run any people over did he?

More luck than judgement. Plus you're forgetting as well as killing himself he put the passenger in hospital.

Ray Palmer

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Yet this thread is about this one incident where one family member's comments taken from the crash site .

No the thread isn't about one incident. It is about people saying people were really nice when they weren't. One incident was put in the OP by me and commented on about why PEOPLE do this. Not just one incident but a common claim made by people who obviously weren't as nice as said.

If you didn't get that I have since clarified it. The comments were made at the crash site but not straight after the incident so location means nothing other than a personal statement was made there.

Go ahead blame the paper but it doesn't change the fact people do this. If somebody is stupid enough to make a statement does it matter if they say it to the press? The fact is people do this commonly and I don't get why.

allibastor

All people who die become saints to their family.

it is a terrible thing to happen to be sure, but he did something wrong, and unfortunately he paid a very heavy price for it. It was a stupid thing, but as said before, can the family be very surprised.


I also hate the young people driver slogan, I was 18 when I started driving. I only ever got 2 points on my licence cause I had to overtake some elderly driver doing 30KPH below the speed limit and got done for going speeds to overtake her.

Artful_Badger

Ray Palmer wrote: »

No the thread isn't about one incident. It is about people saying people were really nice when they weren't. One incident was put in the OP by me and commented on about why PEOPLE do this. Not just one incident but a common claim made by people who obviously weren't as nice as said.

If you didn't get that I have since clarified it. The comments were made at the crash site but not straight after the incident so location means nothing other than a personal statement was made there.

Go ahead blame the paper but it doesn't change the fact people do this. If somebody is stupid enough to make a statement does it matter if they say it to the press? The fact is people do this commonly and I don't get why.

This was your OP.

"The nicest guy you could meet" Family beg young driver to slow down
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-30205475.html

So you read the headline and think tragic accident and the family just making sure others don't have to suffer the same. Then you read the story and find out it is not quite as it seems. The car was stolen! So this isn't about young drivers needing to slow down. Maybe the family should come out and say people shouldn't steal cars and go joyriding.
His great-aunt saying "the nicest guy you could meet" is just odd to me. The nicest person I could meet is not going to be a car thief and if that is the nicest you can meet you need a better class of people to interact with.

I get grieving but I don't get why people make up stuff. An 18 year old hanging a round with a 16 year old stealing cars is not a nice person. I wouldn't want him dead but his own risky behaviour caused his death. It was not speeding alone and really doesn't have much to do with normal young drivers.

And you are saying now its not about the article or this one guy but about people in general who say nice things about the deceased whether they are nice or not ?

People speak fondly of deceased family members, its not that big a mystery. /thread if it wasnt actually about a scummer getting his comeuppance and his family having the cheek not to publicly admit he was a scummer.

Ash.J.Williams

i'm sure my family think i'm nicer than i really am too

RoboRat

People saying we do stupid things in our childhood is part of the reason this country has gone to the dogs. We are happy justify this kind of behaviour with 'ah shure they're only kids'. Its the same as the attitude of 'they have nothing else to do' to justify anti social behaviour.

I was raised in an estate with no facilities yet we didn't rob cars. Why? because I would have had the crap beat out of me if I did.

I did things I regretted as a teenager but nothing like joyriding. I was raised to respect people and their property and I would never have even contemplated robbing a car for the thrill of it. If I robbed a car and killed myself, I know that my parents and family wouldn't be making such statements. They would be devastated but in the same breath absolutely disgusted with me for doing something like that.

Im not celebrating the loss of this guy but at the same time I cant feel any sort of sorrow for his loss. I do feel sorrow for his family and friends but I also am left wondering why this kid was out joyriding in the first place.

Ray Palmer

Artful_Badger wrote: »

This was your OP.



And you are saying now its not about the article or this one guy but about people in general who say nice things about the deceased whether they are nice or not ?

People speak fondly of deceased family members, its not that big a mystery. /thread if it wasnt actually about a scummer getting his comeuppance and his family having the cheek not to publicly admit he was a scummer.

Have you some problem? I clarified my post as the discussion has moved on, pay attention. The thread is about outrageous claims made and how it is common.

My intention was never to say somebody got his comeuppance you are making up your own stuff on this thread and obviously quite irritated about something.

To me saying something nice about somebody involves the person being nice. It doesn't matter if the are dead or not but you don't make it up regardless if it is family. You can make allowances but going over the top is a mystery to me.

Your insistence on giving out about the media is tedious and pointless. No insight and mass revelation that you are telling people. I already mentioned this. You aren't adding anything now either. I don't get why you are bothering or so bothered.

William F

Looking at some of the posts here would make you think that most people don’t make mistakes. The guy was 18, he could have had a chance to turn his life around in time but I guess the small town Irish mentality prevails; ‘’Once a criminal always a criminal’’.

My name is URL

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

Can I ask mods why no one is allowed to."joke" in the peach geldof thread when she was a known junkie.


As I said above double standards...

There was a thread here a few years ago about that guy from Bray (Shane Clancy) that stabbed two people, killed one and then took his own life. He was from a middle class family, and people were actually banned and reprimanded for calling him a scumbag etc.. others stuck up for the guy even though the stabbings were planned in advance.

Ray Palmer

William F wrote: »

Looking at some of the posts here would make you think that most people don’t make mistakes. The guy was 18, he could have had a chance to turn his life around in time but I guess the small town Irish mentality prevails; ‘’Once a criminal always a criminal’’.

I am not from a small town. Generally I just find people who steal not to really care about their consequences on other people. It isn't one action it is what that action says about the person.
If somebody doesn't care about others they aren't likely to change their tune whether it is criminal or not.

He could have turned his life around but he wasn't "the nicest guy you could meet". His own actions stopped him from being able to turn his life around. Sad but true.

RoboRat

Looking at some of the posts here would make you think that most people don’t make mistakes. The guy was 18, he could have had a chance to turn his life around in time but I guess the small town Irish mentality is reflected in the thread; ‘’Once a criminal always a criminal’’.

Again with the mistakes crap. What about the people who have had innocent relatives killed by joyriders? I was a hairs breath away from being killed by a joyrider when I was 19 - they were pissed and went too fast around a sharp corner at 3am nearly taking about 15 innocent people out who were walking home from a night out. We were blessed that they hit a wall because if they didn't, there would have been a lot of casualties and some fatalities.

Yeah he may have turned his life around but he may also have kept doing it and ended up killing an innocent person. I am sure that a lot of people have made mistakes, I surely have, but nothing anywhere near as serious as joyriding.

Also, people seem to forget the cost of this criminality on the victim, a lot of people are struggling financially and when you loose your car you (a) get fleeced by the insurance company who will give you the bare minimum of what your car is worth, regardless of how well you service and maintain it then (b) increase your premium significantly. Your car tax is not transferable so you need to tax a new car and you may also have to get it NCT'd. Thats not taking into account the time off work to deal with the Gardai, sourcing a new car, renting a car in the interim etc. This is a very costly process for an innocent victim just so some gob****e can have a joyride. I know as I had my car robbed 3 years ago and it wasn't a pleasant experience and cost me a lot.

I don't agree with your summarisation of once a criminal, always a criminal - people can change but unsurprisingly, a lot of them don't, they move on to worse activities but when do die engaging in a criminal act, then you die a criminal, end of.

Artful_Badger

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Have you some problem? I clarified my post as the discussion has moved on, pay attention. The thread is about outrageous claims made and how it is common.

You're the one with the problem if you think an aunt calling her nephew nice after he dies in a car crash is outrageous.

My intention was never to say somebody got his comeuppance you are making up your own stuff on this thread and obviously quite irritated about something.

I'm not making anything up, read the thread. Thats a large part of what's been posted. I'm not irritated either. I'm just discussing whats been posted. Dont take offence and start making this personal.

To me saying something nice about somebody involves the person being nice. It doesn't matter if the are dead or not but you don't make it up regardless if it is family. You can make allowances but going over the top is a mystery to me.

Or does it only involve you thinking the person is nice or having had good dealings with them ? A lot people will say "The family think he's an angel, but he was a scumbag" plenty of others will think someone was a great person and really nice but their family will know the truth about how they were only putting it on in public. All anyone actually does is say nice thing but not say the bad things. Why ? Because there's nothing to be gained from making things harder for a family or friends and anyone with an ounce of cop on wont go out of their way to say those things.

Your insistence on giving out about the media is tedious and pointless. No insight and mass revelation that you are telling people. I already mentioned this. You aren't adding anything now either. I don't get why you are bothering or so bothered.

You're insistence that the media representation of the article you posted has no relevance to a thread you started criticising how the story was presented and the statements made is truly baffling.

Your insistence on telling people they are contributing nothing by questioning you is whats tedious and pointless, You started the thread, why are you so affected by people responding to you ?

Ray Palmer

Artful_Badger wrote: »

You're the one with the problem if you think an aunt calling her nephew nice after he dies in a car crash is outrageous.

She didn't say he was "nice" she said he was the "nicest". Above all others.

I really don't get your thought pattern. The reporting makes no difference to what she said about a her joy ridding nephew.

You want to badger me with nit picking posts, don't bother I won't respond. You obviously want an argument and I am not going to bother with such silly points. You are making up points I never made and attempting to draw me into something for your own amusement. You add nothing and have no insight.

Artful_Badger

Ray Palmer wrote: »

She didn't say he was "nice" she said he was the "nicest". Above all others.

I really don't get your thought pattern. The reporting makes no difference to what she said about a her joy ridding nephew.

Thats just a turn of phrase though. Salt of the earth, couldn't meet a nicer guy etc. All that actually means is she thought he was a nice person.

You want to badger me with nit picking posts, don't bother I won't respond. You obviously want an argument and I am not going to bother with such silly points. You are making up points I never made and attempting to draw me into something for your own amusement. You add nothing and have no insight.

Here we go again with this stuff. I'm just discussing what you posted to discuss. This is a discussion forum. I'm not nit picking (rich though given your argument that the guy wasnt "the nicest person you could meet") and I dont want an argument. But its clear from your posts the last thing you want in your own thread is a discussion.

Mad4simmental

That crash happend about one minnet from the town on the best part of the road. The speed must have been huge. He was 18 "an adult" that just possibly killed his passenger or fu$ked up his life.

It's sad that a life was lost and it's very sad for the family. But it was planned. Any-one find out who dropped them to birr????????????????????????????

Live by the sword die by the sword.

endacl

William F wrote: »

Looking at some of the posts here would make you think that most people don’t make mistakes. The guy was 18, he could have had a chance to turn his life around in time but I guess the small town Irish mentality prevails; ‘’Once a criminal always a criminal’’.

Mountoy is full of people who could have turned their lives around. One a scumbag always a scumbag.

I'm from a big town, by the way.

ScumLord

endacl wrote: »

Mountoy is full of people who could have turned their lives around. One a scumbag always a scumbag.

The real world is full of people that did scumbaggey things in their youth but went on to become better adults.

My name is URL

endacl wrote: »

Mountoy is full of people who could have turned their lives around.

But didn't, hence them being in prison

One a scumbag always a scumbag

Depends on who you'd define as a scumbag, really. Anyone that ever breaks the law? Anyone that ever breaks certain laws on a list that you've compiled?

Kinda subjective tbh. I know people who have done some pretty idiotic things in their younger years, and who are now upstanding members of society.. and are definitely not scumbags.

Is someone that, say downloads a few movies or albums illegally a scumbag? There are many many people who would consider such people to be no better than thieving scobes robbing a shop. But no sane person would think that way.. would they?

AlekSmart

ScumLord wrote: »

The real world is full of people that did scumbaggey things in their youth but went on to become better adults.

Indeed,and hopefully this will be one of those people....

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/house-of-horrors-mother-released-from-jail-after-five-years-30207477.html

Or....?

shruikan2553

He was 18, not a child. By that age I would expect anyone to know you dont steal things and then use them dangerously which could have caused others to be harmed. I'm not happy he is dead but I dont feel sorry for him either. We all make mistakes but you dont rob a car by accident.
I have known people who have killed themselves or died in accidents. Some of them were complete scumbags and their deaths doesn't make me feel any different about them.

Knob Longman

The bitterness is oozing out on this thread..