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"The nicest guy you could meet" Family beg young driver to slow down

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    #32
    GenieOz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 892 ✭✭✭GenieOz


    cletus van damme wrote: »
    whatever his crime nobody deserves to die like that.
    gloating at his death is knacker behaviour.

    nobody here knows his previous record , he could have made a once drunken error of judgement or not.
    I don't know. You don't know.

    he was 18 and now he is dead. there are no winners in this stop acting like there is.

    Once drunken error of judgement?
    lol a drunken error of judgement is getting a 4 in 1 with satay sauce when you should have asked for curry.
    Not robbing a car.

    He's dead, he was a car thief. He died whilst robbing a car. It's well deserved.


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    #33
    howamidifferent
    Registered Users Posts: 1,817 ✭✭✭howamidifferent


    cletus van damme wrote: »

    he was 18 and now he is dead. there are no winners in this stop acting like there is.

    Society at large are the winners here.


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    #34
    Artful_Badger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,339 ✭✭✭Artful_Badger


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    You could say that about any person's death, why would anybody care what the family says? You could be right that they said it for impact. I haven't given it much amazing thought or time into anything.

    How do you know I didn't make the easy statement expecting the usual reaction to media stories from people like yourself? It isn't like you have given some amazing insight into the media.

    I know people react this way and speak of obvious scum bags as angels once they die. The indo did not create this type of reaction. My comment is actually about why do people do this. The indo didn't create the comments on the similar story about the guy who died after stealing a taxi.

    But whatever your comments are not insightful nor even the point people do this. So reacting the way you have is just being played like a fiddle and is practically like hearing John Waters think he has some unique correct insight. You and he don't:rolleyes:

    Its pretty obvious why people do it. They are mourning the loss of someone they love. When a rag newspaper press them for info what are they gonna say other than how much they miss the guy and why ? The stuff they printed "from the family" are the ramblings of his great aunt which they got form the crash site after a member of her family had died. Not a well thought out statement on behalf of the family about road safety designed to mislead people.

    If you have an issue with the statements take it up with the idiots who printed them. Not with a family who have just lost someone for not coming out immediately after he died and saying the guy was a scumbag because he stole a car.


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    #35
    Frank Lee Midere
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,780 ✭✭✭Frank Lee Midere


    Being a car thief is a bit beyond the "era we all make mistakes" part of young adulthood. If this guy took his fathers car out for a joy ride I would still have little or no sympathy, but a bit more. What seems to have happened is a well co- ordinated break into a second hand dealership , in a different county, in the middle of the night to steal the keys and then the car. It was planned.


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    #36
    RugbyLad11
    Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭RugbyLad11


    Guys just because he stole a car it doesn't make him the devil. This thread is full of saints, everyone done a few wild things when they were younger.


    But if posters when making theses comments in a thread about a teenager thst committed suicide for example they would be banned...

    Who knows how he felt, he could of been depressed. But if someone committed suicide everyone would be expected to leave nice comments. I personally have no sympathy for people who take their own live but if I gave my own option the mods would ban me


    WHY THEY DOUBLE STANDARDS? He was only a kid at the end of they day


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    #37
    cletus van damme
    Closed Accounts Posts: 960 ✭✭✭cletus van damme


    howamidifferent wrote: »
    Society at large are the winners here.

    really? The tax payers and people who pay insurance premiums probably aren't.
    2.8m is an expensive price for people to feel smug.
    Maybe you're not a taxpayer .



    http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/About%20Us/Ministerial_Report_LORES.pdf

    CRASH SEVERITY COST PER COLLISION (EURO 2007 PRICE)
    Fatal 2,891,435
    Serious 386,286
    Minor 38,045
    Material damage 3,044


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    #38
    cletus van damme
    Closed Accounts Posts: 960 ✭✭✭cletus van damme


    Frank Lee Midere wrote: »
    Being a car thief is a bit beyond the "era we all make mistakes" part of young adulthood. If this guy took his fathers car out for a joy ride I would still have little or no sympathy, but a bit more. What seems to have happened is a well co- ordinated break into a second hand dealership , in a different county, in the middle of the night to steal the keys and then the car. It was planned.

    yeah but why lower yourself to a level where you are saying "happy days" that he is dead.
    A person's actions in one incident or their vice doesn't define them
    and is so much more than one highlighted incident(s)


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    #39
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,104 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    RugbyLad11 wrote: »
    Guys just because he stole a car it doesn't make him the devil. This thread is full of saints, everyone done a few wild things when they were younger. Irs
    Sure and any death of a young person is to be mourned, however stealing someone else's property and running amok putting other peoples lives at risk is a big step up from the usual youthful shenanigans. I'd not celebrate a death like this, however I do celebrate the fact he took himself out of the equation before he ended up killing innocent bystanders.
    cletus van damme wrote: »
    really? The tax payers and people who pay insurance premiums probably aren't.
    2.8m is an expensive price for people to feel smug.
    Maybe you're not a taxpayer
    I am. For a start he stole the car. He wasn't insured. So yes indeed him and others like do drive up our premiums by stealing cars and causing criminal damage, never mind the emergency services time.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #40
    GenieOz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 892 ✭✭✭GenieOz


    RugbyLad11 wrote: »
    Guys just because he stole a car it doesn't make him the devil. This thread is full of saints, everyone done a few wild things when they were younger.


    But if posters when making theses comments in a thread about a teenager thst committed suicide for example they would be banned...


    WHY THEY DOUBLE STANDARDS? He was only a kid at the end of they day

    Probably because the teenager that had committed suicide probably wasn't a little scumbag going around robbing cars.
    Kinda silly to call it a double standard.


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    #41
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    RugbyLad11 wrote: »
    Guys just because he stole a car it doesn't make him the devil. This thread is full of saints, everyone done a few wild things when they were younger.


    But if posters when making theses comments in a thread about a teenager thst committed suicide for example they would be banned...


    WHY THEY DOUBLE STANDARDS? He was only a kid at the end of they day

    Would you be saying the same if his stupid actions had also caused the death of an innocent pedestrian or driver of another vehicle. Idiotic behaviour like this doesnt just endanger the driver but everyone else on the road as well.


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    #42
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,104 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    RugbyLad11 wrote: »
    But if posters when making theses comments in a thread about a teenager thst committed suicide for example they would be banned...
    In the dictionary under "comparing apples and oranges". How the hell could anyone draw a comparison between a person who suffers a mental illness bad enough that the despair cause them to take their own lives and a joyriding thief. Really? WT actual F.
    cletus van damme wrote: »
    A person's actions in one incident or their vice doesn't define them
    and is so much more than one highlighted incident(s)
    If a person raped someone we'd be all too quick to define them as a rapist. Rightfully.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #43
    CarrickMcJoe
    Registered Users Posts: 3,379 ✭✭✭CarrickMcJoe


    By saying the guy was an angel, the family may be lining themselves up for a big claim against the dealer for leaving the keys lying around and not under lock and key.


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    #44
    RugbyLad11
    Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭RugbyLad11


    GenieOz wrote: »
    Probably because the teenager that had committed suicide probably wasn't a little scumbag going around robbing cars.
    Kinda silly to call it a double standard.

    Everyone rebels differently


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    #45
    GenieOz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 892 ✭✭✭GenieOz


    RugbyLad11 wrote: »
    Everyone rebels differently

    Yeah, a scumbag rebels by robbing a car.


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    #46
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,104 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    RugbyLad11 wrote: »
    Everyone rebels differently
    Jesus this gets better and better. Are you really now equating suicide with teenage rebellion?

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #47
    ahnowbrowncow
    Registered Users Posts: 2,565 ✭✭✭ahnowbrowncow


    cletus van damme wrote: »
    really? The tax payers and people who pay insurance premiums probably aren't.
    2.8m is an expensive price for people to feel smug.
    Maybe you're not a taxpayer .



    http://www.rsa.ie/Documents/About%20Us/Ministerial_Report_LORES.pdf

    CRASH SEVERITY COST PER COLLISION (EURO 2007 PRICE)
    Fatal
    2,891,435

    Serious
    386,286

    Minor
    38,045

    Material damage 3,044






    How do they calculate those figures? It doesn't state how in the document.


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    #48
    meoklmrk91
    Registered Users Posts: 4,085 ✭✭✭meoklmrk91


    Look I feel sorry for his family, I'm sure that they are going through hell right now, don't have much sympathy for him though, yeah we all did wild and stupid things when we were younger, mine not anybody I would associate with did not however include stealing and destroying someone else's property. Tbh I'm just glad he didn't end up taking anyone else with him.


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    #49
    RugbyLad11
    Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭RugbyLad11


    Wibbs wrote: »
    In the dictionary under "comparing apples and oranges". How the hell could anyone draw a comparison between a person who suffers a mental illness bad enough that the despair cause them to take their own lives and a joyriding thief. Really? WT actual F.

    As I said above who knows what was going on his head, make he stole the car because he was sick with life....everyone does stupid things when they are teens


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    #50
    scottp68877
    Registered Users Posts: 214 ✭✭scottp68877


    I really hope no one on this thread has to go through something like what the family are going through. I can definetly say that you won't be saying he deserved it then when it's your nephew or son.


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    #51
    ScumLord
    Registered Users Posts: 28,789 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The sooner people learn to take every word written in these rags with a pinch of salt, the better.
    The sooner people stop giving their money to these organisations the sooner they'd stop printing complete drivel.

    These newspapers are only supplying demand, stop funding the newspapers and they have to change what they print.


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    #52
    The Caveman
    Registered Users Posts: 285 ✭✭The Caveman


    Would not surprise me if this nice young fella had like 20 previous convictions


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    #53
    Arbiter of Good Taste
    Registered Users Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭Arbiter of Good Taste


    Youthful indiscretion my f***ing hole.

    Youthful indiscretion means having one too many Scrumpy Jacks or Fat Frogs or whatever it is the kids drink these days.

    Guy was a thief and vandal and got struck down before he caused more damage to some innocent lives. Am I happy he's dead? No, I'd prefer he was alive to face a suitable punishment for what he did. The only people punished now are his family. Though that raises the argument that they really ought to have raised him better.


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    #54
    GenieOz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 892 ✭✭✭GenieOz


    RugbyLad11 wrote: »
    As I said above who knows what was going on his head, make he stole the car because he was sick with life....everyone does stupid things when they are teens

    That is the weakest reasoning behind defending this guy I've ever heard.

    Yes, he was sick with life and he took his friend along with him for the eh..ah, we've reached a snag.


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    #55
    pablomakaveli
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,752 ✭✭✭pablomakaveli


    scottp68877 wrote: »
    I really hope no one on this thread has to go through something like what the family are going through. I can definetly say that you won't be saying he deserved it then when it's your nephew or son.

    I think most of our nephews and sons aren't car thieves.


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    #56
    ressem
    Registered Users Posts: 2,426 ✭✭✭ressem


    ahnowbrowncow wrote: »
    How do they calculate those figures? It doesn't state how in the document.

    The 2002 Goodbody figures from which these 2007 values were extrapolated stated
    €2,018,126 in Casualty costs
    Lost Output
    Human costs (Pain and suffering)
    Medical costs


    €15,882 in the accident costs
    Damage to property
    Insurance administration
    Police Costs

    http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/5830-0.pdf


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    #57
    Ray Palmer
    Registered Users Posts: 8,364 ✭✭✭Ray Palmer


    Artful_Badger wrote: »
    Its pretty obvious why people do it. They are mourning the loss of someone they love. When a rag newspaper press them for info what are they gonna say other than how much they miss the guy and why ? The stuff they printed "from the family" are the ramblings of his great aunt which they got form the crash site after a member of her family had died. Not a well thought out statement on behalf of the family about road safety designed to mislead people.

    If you have an issue with the statements take it up with the idiots who printed them. Not with a family who have just lost someone for not coming out immediately after he died and saying the guy was a scumbag because he stole a car.


    You do get that people do this when no paper is involved right?

    I have met many people who say this stuff over truly horrible people. I understand mourning fine having had close friends and family die. Their deaths didn't change the actions in their lifetime.

    One guy I know died of a drug overdose. He used to beat his girlfriend, steal and get into fights (start them). People saying he was a lovely salt of the earth guy, not just family. He was never a nice guy and lying about it after wards didn't change it. He died as a result of one of his many vile tendencies. Everybody knew how he died but just ignored it so as not to offend his family.

    You don't have to think out a statement to know it isn't true he obviously wasn't the nicest person in the world. Saying it doesn't make it true.

    Any venom towards the paper is pointless and a way to deflect from the obvious responsibility for the person's own choices.


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    #58
    RDM_83 again
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,116 ✭✭✭RDM_83 again


    Its obviously a stupid article but he is still a young lad that got his life tragically cut short, yes his actions put properly innocent people at risk but while stealing a car from a lot and drunkenly joy riding is clearly scumbag behavior its not the same as deliberately going out and hurting or threatening someone even though the potential consequences for by-standers are fatal.

    He was 18 while this isn't the same as the usual teens acting the maggot and it might not be likely in your view, he was still just 18 he could have grown up a bit and turned his life around.
    I was drinking a while back with a friend of a friend and he talked about how when he was a similar age to this guy he "robbed" (not going into the details but might not be considered technically robbery) and went drink driving, he admits he was a scumbag back then and he could have destroyed his life BUT isn't it better that he is still about now and able to look back on stuff from his youth than being in a box in the ground.


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    #59
    glued
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,446 ✭✭✭glued


    RDM_83 again wrote: »
    Its obviously a stupid article but he is still a young lad that got his life tragically cut short, yes his actions put properly innocent people at risk but while stealing a car from a lot and drunkenly joy riding is clearly scumbag behavior its not the same as deliberately going out and hurting or threatening someone even though the potential consequences for by-standers are fatal.

    He was 18 while this isn't the same as the usual teens acting the maggot and it might not be likely in your view, he was still just 18 he could have grown up a bit and turned his life around.
    I was drinking a while back with a friend of a friend and he talked about how when he was a similar age to this guy he "robbed" (not going into the details but might not be considered technically robbery) and went drink driving, he admits he was a scumbag back then and he could have destroyed his life BUT isn't it better that he is still about now and able to look back on stuff from his youth than being in a box in the ground.

    There is no excuse for this guys behaviour. He robbed a car, went joyriding and died as a result nearly killing another person too. I have no sympathy for him. He could of killed an innocent person as a result of his inconsiderate scumbag behaviour.

    Nobody deserves to die in this fashion but lets be glad that as a result of his own stupidity that he didn't manage to ruin any innocent lives as a result of this incident.


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    #60
    Artful_Badger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,339 ✭✭✭Artful_Badger


    Ray Palmer wrote: »
    You do get that people do this when no paper is involved right?

    Yet this thread is about this one incident where one family member's comments taken from the crash site were printed as statements on behalf of the family and you stated in your op your issue was with people making stuff up on the back of a dead guys aunt saying "You couldn't meet a nicer fella".

    Firstly you have absolutely no idea who this guy was. You have no idea whether he was nice or not to his aunt or what she knew about his criminal activities. Hell nobody even knows if he has committed any other criminal acts. Yet here you are assuming he was a horrible person, a scumbag of the highest order and questioning why his family immediately after his death would make up lies about him being nice.
    I have met many people who say this stuff over truly horrible people. I understand mourning fine having had close friends and family die. Their deaths didn't change the actions in their lifetime.

    One guy I know died of a drug overdose. He used to beat his girlfriend, steal and get into fights (start them). People saying he was a lovely salt of the earth guy, not just family. He was never a nice guy and lying about it after wards didn't change it. He died as a result of one of his many vile tendencies. Everybody knew how he died but just ignored it so as not to offend his family.

    I know a guy who died of a drug overdose. If asked I'd mimic what I so often hear on the news. He seemed like a pretty nice guy. He wasnt guilty of any crime other than buying the drugs but still I heard plenty about one less scummer infesting the place. The fact is people will go to extremes no matter what and regardless of how much they actually know. And I see nothing to gain by making statements about the deceased that would make it harder for the family having to deal with a death.
    You don't have to think out a statement to know it isn't true he obviously wasn't the nicest person in the world. Saying it doesn't make it true.

    Who says its true ? There is no counter argument to you saying its not true, despite you knowing absolutely nothing of what this guy was like.
    Any venom towards the paper is pointless and a way to deflect from the obvious responsibility for the person's own choices.

    Well considering this isnt about the guys choices but rather the family members statements about his character, then how is the fact they are printed and a story fashioned around them not relevant ? You started this thread because how the article portrayed it and then blamed the family for that when it was the fault of the paper.
    So you read the headline and think tragic accident and the family just making sure others don't have to suffer the same. Then you read the story and find out it is not quite as it seems. The car was stolen! So this isn't about young drivers needing to slow down. Maybe the family should come out and say people shouldn't steal cars and go joyriding.


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    #61
    RugbyLad11
    Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭RugbyLad11


    GenieOz wrote: »
    That is the weakest reasoning behind defending this guy I've ever heard.

    Yes, he was sick with life and he took his friend along with him for the eh..ah, we've reached a snag.

    It's not really. Teen A is depressed so he acts out and does dumb stuff, while teen B is depressed but he takes his life.

    My point was that everyone acts differently.


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