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Season 4; Episode 2: 'The Lion and the Rose'; *Have NOT* Read the Books

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    #212
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    If that is the real explanation behind HOW Joffrey was poisoned, I'm still completely in the dark as to the WHY!:)


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    #213
    Bacchus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,699 ✭✭✭Bacchus


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    If that is the real explanation behind HOW Joffrey was poisoned, I'm still completely in the dark as to the WHY!:)

    If it is the HOW, the WHY is pretty obvious (spoiler tagged just in case...)
    Sansa hates Joffrey. She is literally his prisoner and she is at his mercy... of which, he had none. Why wouldn't she try to kill him.


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    #214
    Grimebox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,997 ✭✭✭Grimebox


    Bacchus wrote: »
    If it is the HOW, the WHY is pretty obvious (spoiler tagged just in case...)
    Sansa hates Joffrey. She is literally his prisoner and she is at his mercy... of which, he had none. Why wouldn't she try to kill him.

    If we're talking about the same imgur album
    Sansa didn't do it. She was just a mule for the poisoned stones. The old woman can now pin it on Sansa and Tyrion. Sansa is oblivious.


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    #215
    Dan_Solo
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 10,087 ✭✭✭✭Dan_Solo


    Bacchus wrote: »
    If it is the HOW, the WHY is pretty obvious (spoiler tagged just in case...)
    Sansa hates Joffrey. She is literally his prisoner and she is at his mercy... of which, he had none. Why wouldn't she try to kill him.
    But but but
    My reading of that explanation of the conspiracy was that Sansa wasn't in on it at all, she was just asked to wear a necklace!

    EDIT: What Grimebox said!
    But still, seeing a lot of luck involved for the blame to be shifted away so efficiently. Don't see how they could've planned that at all.


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    #216
    Artful_Badger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,339 ✭✭✭Artful_Badger


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    But but but
    My reading of that explanation of the conspiracy was that Sansa wasn't in on it at all, she was just asked to wear a necklace!

    EDIT: What Grimebox said!
    But still, seeing a lot of luck involved for the blame to be shifted away so efficiently. Don't see how they could've planned that at all.

    If its right then the mule is also being set up for the fall. Its the only reason to do it that way.


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    #217
    Anachrony
    Registered Users Posts: 286 ✭✭Anachrony


    Dan_Solo wrote: »
    What's the difference between a nweb and a show-watcher in that?

    It's season 4. Some people have been obsessing over everything about the show for 4 years now. While others have only recently been persuaded to give in to the hype and watch it. Some may have had a marathon session of watching the DVDs while others may not have ever seen the full series but still have plenty of reason to hate Joffrey from this one episode alone. But of course the joke is that everyone responded pretty much the same.


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    #218
    iamanengine
    Registered Users Posts: 3,891 ✭✭✭iamanengine


    Spoilers in the Have NOT Read the Books thread gives me a sad :(


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    #219
    Big Pussy Bonpensiero
    Registered Users Posts: 7,776 ✭✭✭Big Pussy Bonpensiero


    iamanengine wrote: »
    Spoilers in the Have NOT Read the Books thread gives me a sad :(

    It's a fcuking joke tbh.. Will never understand why people do it.. Hope the whoever originally posted the spoiler gets perma-banned from this forum.


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    #220
    D.Q
    Registered Users Posts: 6,054 ✭✭✭D.Q


    such an odd situation with the tv and books running at the same time. I gave up on the books a couple of chapters into a feast for crows. Just got too tedious for me personally. Too many names, and don't really love his style. The content is fantastic though obviously, and when its all dripped through the filter of television/HBO it becomesincredibly entertaining.

    So I'm in the strange position of knowing that
    he died
    , but was so confused by that stage in the books that I didn't know
    who killed him, or if he just choked or what
    . Spoiling anything for anyone is a prick move, but it'll be mighty hard avoiding them over the next few weeks. Especially the way content just pops up on newsfeeds etc etc

    edit: those spoilers are only about the episode, not about the books.


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    #221
    Mr Blobby
    Registered Users Posts: 5,752 ✭✭✭Mr Blobby


    Would the people putting book spoilers in here kindly jog on!! :mad:


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    #222
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,523 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    D.Q wrote: »
    such an odd situation with the tv and books running at the same time. I gave up on the books a couple of chapters into a feast for crows. Just got too tedious for me personally. Too many names, and don't really love his style. The content is fantastic though obviously, and when its all dripped through the filter of television/HBO it becomesincredibly entertaining.

    So I'm in the strange position of knowing that
    he died
    , but was so confused by that stage in the books that I didn't know
    who killed him, or if he just choked or what
    . Spoiling anything for anyone is a prick move, but it'll be mighty hard avoiding them over the next few weeks. Especially the way content just pops up on newsfeeds etc etc

    edit: those spoilers are only about the episode, not about the books.

    I don't think it's necessary to spoiler tag stuff that happened in this episode if it's not based on knowledge from the books? Spoiler tags shouldn't really be appearing in this thread in general, everyone posting should be in the same boat as regards how much they've seen?


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    #223
    Artful_Badger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,339 ✭✭✭Artful_Badger


    The spoiler tags over the last couple pages are a courtesy to other posters and are just hiding discussion about that link which itself is just hyper analysis of the episode. Whether it was made with knowledge of the books or not I dont know (I havent read the books) but every single thing in it is a comment on what happened in episode 2 and I seen nothing referencing the books.

    I get that it ruins the mystery if its actually right (which is why some posters spoiler tagged the discussion of it) but people have to take responsibility too for the fact they are online on discussion forums where episodes are being dissected. If you dont want to see or hear such details then dont come in here.


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    #224
    GerB40
    Registered Users Posts: 2,047 ✭✭✭GerB40


    THFC wrote: »
    It's a fcuking joke tbh.. Will never understand why people do it.. Hope the whoever originally posted the spoiler gets perma-banned from this forum.

    I have a feeling one or two posters on this thread have read the books and is pretending to be just guessing what's going on. Actually I'm fairly certain but I'll leave it at that. Not tryin to be a dîck but going into detail could lead to potential spoilers..


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    #225
    kryogen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,953 ✭✭✭✭kryogen


    Cracking episode, really happy with Joffrey getting a nice painful death, but I really will miss the little ****er! Actor has to get a huge amount of credit for his portrayal of him. Tyrion being so cruel to Shae must have been very hard for him, but the fact that we dont actually see her go and how Bronn assures Tyrion she is definitely gone makes me think we may not have seen the last of her :) Seems to be the way Martin writes! Unpredictability becoming somewhat predictable!

    Going from opportunity the only logical conclusion is that Oleanna (sp?) Tyrell is responsible for the murder, nobody else had opportunity really that fits the timing, Tyrion would have been seen interfering with it, and and he just obviously didnt do it! Sansa, I am not certain she has it in her to take a life, regardless of how badly that person deserves it!! The goblet is then placed in front of Oleanna, by Margery, who I would imagine is complicit in the act, before it is returned to Joffrey and he only shows a reaction to what he has drunk at that point.

    No other person fits tbh and there was also plenty of focus on her, her unhappiness with lots of things surrounding the wedding and indeed the wedding itself.

    I dont believe Tywin had any hand in it, nor Cersei but I think Littlefinger is conspicuous by his absence, was it explained why he is not at the wedding? He is a schemer and his absence casts suspicion on him along with his connection to the Tyrells.

    Cannot wait till next week now, going to be downloading instead of watching on Sky Atlantic though, they ruined the mood with ads for me

    Edit: Just to clarify after I read the post above mine, I have not read the books or anything like that, my post is purely speculative from my own watching of the episode and all that led up to that for the last 3 seasons!


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    #226
    Syferus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,965 ✭✭✭Syferus


    Kold wrote: »
    I think it was Tywin. It actually consolidates his grip getting the monster out, people will embrace the new Lannister after that nutjob. Also masterfully swats the Tyrrells aside and whatever they had in mind. However, the glancing looks from the two gay lads suggests that they may have a new alliance to come.

    Be funny if it turns out it was the Kingslayer out of habit.

    Err, pushing aside the second richest house on the continent when you are in a pile of debt and have a battered army wouldn't be masterfully swatting away a problem, it would be creating a new, much more severe one.

    I assume Margery will be married off to the younger brother unless Tywin has taken leave of his senses completely.


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    #227
    thefa
    Registered Users Posts: 943 ✭✭✭thefa


    I am speculating about the validity of the imugr theory
    of Olenna poisoning the goblet. So she is supposed to have dropped poison into the goblet on the next table a good couple of metres away, all while just to the side of the crowd's view of Joffrey and in front of that kingsguard who's shoulder you can see just over Sansa's right shoulder in the picture below. Risky to put it mildly for such a smart woman.

    Link related to above.
    http://i.imgur.com/yPnRA3o.png


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    #228
    Amirani
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,523 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    Artful_Badger wrote: »
    The spoiler tags over the last couple pages are a courtesy to other posters and are just hiding discussion about that link which itself is just hyper analysis of the episode. Whether it was made with knowledge of the books or not I dont know (I havent read the books) but every single thing in it is a comment on what happened in episode 2 and I seen nothing referencing the books.

    I get that it ruins the mystery if its actually right (which is why some posters spoiler tagged the discussion of it) but people have to take responsibility too for the fact they are online on discussion forums where episodes are being dissected. If you dont want to see or hear such details then dont come in here.

    Yeah I understand that. I was referring to the poster I quoted and what he used spoiler tags on.

    Putting spoiler tags on the stuff about the link is absolutely the correct thing to do.


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    #229
    December2012
    Registered Users Posts: 4,695 ✭✭✭December2012


    D.Q wrote: »
    . I gave up on the books a couple of chapters into a feast for crows. Just got too tedious for me personally. Too many names. .

    I found the same and another poster gave me a link to a great combined reading order for books 4 and 5. If you want the link let me know.


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    #230
    irish son
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,195 ✭✭✭irish son


    Was that Bran controlling a dragon in his vision?


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    #231
    Essien
    Registered Users Posts: 2,985 ✭✭✭Essien


    irish son wrote: »
    Was that Bran controlling a dragon in his vision?

    I think so. I'll be disappointed if this doesn't happen eventually. It was the first thing I thought when I knew what he could do.


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    #232
    Da Shins Kelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,048 ✭✭✭Da Shins Kelly


    So Bran could pose problems for the dragon lady? That's interesting. His whole power is strange though. Can he only do that since he fell the from the window? Also, where is he supposed to be going? To meet Jon Snow?


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    #233
    Artful_Badger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,339 ✭✭✭Artful_Badger


    Da Shins Kelly wrote: »
    So Bran could pose problems for the dragon lady? That's interesting. His whole power is strange though. Can he only do that since he fell the from the window? Also, where is he supposed to be going? To meet Jon Snow?

    He's gone beyond the wall following the three eyed crow or whatever it is in his dreams. After talking to the tree in the last episode he seems to be off to another tree further north.


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    #234
    Da Shins Kelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,048 ✭✭✭Da Shins Kelly


    Artful_Badger wrote: »
    He's gone beyond the wall following the three eyed crow or whatever it is in his dreams. After talking to the tree in the last episode he seems to be off to another tree further north.

    Good Lord. I hope that story picks up pace a bit.


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    #235
    kryogen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,953 ✭✭✭✭kryogen


    Da Shins Kelly wrote: »
    Good Lord. I hope that story picks up pace a bit.

    Not all the stories can move at the same pace, some need to be built up slowly, kept on the back burner but the audience still kept aware they are happening tbh.

    Its integral to telling a huge story like this


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    #236
    garv123
    Registered Users Posts: 6,576 ✭✭✭garv123


    I liked the subtle bit where it cuts from theon and ramsey snow straight to tyrion and jamie cutting up and eating sausages.


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    #237
    Gal44
    Registered Users Posts: 751 ✭✭✭Gal44


    And Brienne loves jaime....!?

    Cant believe how much i really like Jaime Lannister now!


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    #238
    kryogen
    Closed Accounts Posts: 25,953 ✭✭✭✭kryogen


    I don't even think Jamie has changed a whole lot over the course of the show, but he is certainly one of my favorite characters


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    #239
    Grimebox
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,997 ✭✭✭Grimebox


    That whole story with Bran is really testing me. He his just following his visions with no indication of what they mean. We also have no idea who these two kids who joined him are. It would be fitting in this show if he randomly got killed all of a sudden.


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    #240
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #241
    Witcher
    Registered Users Posts: 14,640 ✭✭✭✭Witcher


    Grimebox wrote: »
    That whole story with Bran is really testing me. He his just following his visions with no indication of what they mean. We also have no idea who these two kids who joined him are. It would be fitting in this show if he randomly got killed all of a sudden.

    They've explained how the Reeds know the Starks. It was in an episode pretty soon after they met last season.


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