Season 4; Episode 2: 'The Lion and the Rose'; *Have NOT* Read the Books

Maximus Alexander

Jaime's really not a very good kingsguard. He killed one king and has since had two more die under his watch. I know I'd have been sacked at this stage if I kept failing that hard at my job. :pac:

Witcher

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Jaime's really not a very good kingsguard. He killed one king and has since had two more die under his watch. I know I'd have been sacked at this stage if I kept failing that hard at my job. :pac:

In fairness, he wasn't there for Robert's death and there wasn't much he could do for Joffrey...can't fight poison.

Barristan Selmy has also lost two kings..just the nature of the job, hard for 7 men to protect a king if somebody really wants to kill them.

Jaime and Barristan were the only competent one's in Robert's kingsguard, now one is maimed and the other gone.

Aerys had some of the deadliest fighters ever seen in his KG but his family still died..just the way it goes:p

Maximus Alexander

Blay wrote: »

In fairness, he wasn't there for Robert's death and there wasn't much he could do for Joffrey...can't fight poison.

Barristan Selmy has also lost two kings..just the nature of the job, hard for 7 men to protect a king if somebody really wants to kill them.

Aye but you could argue that he should have been there for Robert and that he should have prevented the poisoning.

Witcher

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Aye but you could argue that he should have been there for Robert and that he should have prevented the poisoning.

Barristan was with Robert and couldn't save him..guy was gored by a boar while hunting..KG can't save a king from himself.

They couldn't have saved Joffrey unless they tasted everything he ate and even then the killer would have got him another time.

It's like the Secret Service...you can do everything right and it still might not be enough to save the person. The advantage is always to the assassin.

Stone Deaf 4evr

Blay wrote: »

Barristan was with Robert and couldn't save him..guy was gored by a boar while hunting..KG can't save a king from himself.

They couldn't have saved Joffrey unless they tasted everything he ate and even then the killer would have got him another time.

It's like the Secret Service...you can do everything right and it still might not be enough to save the person. The advantage is always to the assassin.

I could be wrong, but wasnt it implied that his drink had been drugged while he was hunting, making his reactions slower and thus ending up with him being gored. I remember tyrion interviewing the guy who was supplying the wine.

Witcher

Stone Deaf 4evr wrote: »

I could be wrong, but wasnt it implied that his drink had been drugged while he was hunting, making his reactions slower and thus ending up with him being gored. I remember tyrion interviewing the guy who was supplying the wine.

Yeah but Robert was a well known wino..him emptying a skin or two while hunting is normal. Even by checking it Barristan wouldn't have known it was strongwine and that it would affect Robert enough to let a boar goar him. If the KG had to taste every cup or jar of wine Robert had they'd be blind.

It's just not possible to protect someone from every possible threat.

Big Pussy Bonpensiero

Syferus wrote: »

Err, pushing aside the second richest house on the continent when you are in a pile of debt and have a battered army wouldn't be masterfully swatting away a problem, it would be creating a new, much more severe one.

I assume Margery will be married off to the younger brother unless Tywin has taken leave of his senses completely.

Don't for a second think it was Tywin but a lot of the debt is to House Lannister iirc, and as far as Tywin knows the war is as good as over. Robb & Renly have both been killed, Stannis (as far as Tywin knows) has very little with which to threaten Kings Landing, and Balon Greyjoy only wants the North.

On another point, Asha (Theon's sister) is sailing for the Dreadfort (since the end of last season), and it's only just clicked with me that Roose Bolton has sent whatever army he has south to Moat Cailin with his bastard. With the Greyjoys controlling the Neck, and with presumably most of Bolton's force south of the Neck, the Dreadfort could easily fall, which poses a serious threat to Tywin if actually ever wants the North. Obviously, with the whitewalkers, the North is a bit of a poisoned chalice, but none aside from the wildlings and Night's Watch are aware of it.

Mickeroo

Blay wrote: »

Yeah but Robert was a well known wino..him emptying a skin or two while hunting is normal. Even by checking it Barristan wouldn't have known it was strongwine and that it would affect Robert enough to let a boar goar him. If the KG had to taste every cup or jar of wine Robert had they'd be blind.

It's just not possible to protect someone from every possible threat.

Jaimie would have more likely been in on the plot to off Robert if he was around King's Landing than trying to save him imo.

username123

THFC wrote: »

Don't for a second think it was Tywin but a lot of the debt is to House Lannister iirc, and as far as Tywin knows the war is as good as over. Robb & Renly have both been killed, Stannis (as far as Tywin knows) has very little with which to threaten Kings Landing, and Balon Greyjoy only wants the North.

On another point, Asha (Theon's sister) is sailing for the Dreadfort (since the end of last season), and it's only just clicked with me that Roose Bolton has sent whatever army he has south to Moat Cailin with his bastard. With the Greyjoys controlling the Neck, and with presumably most of Bolton's force south of the Neck, the Dreadfort could easily fall, which poses a serious threat to Tywin if actually ever wants the North. Obviously, with the whitewalkers, the North is a bit of a poisoned chalice, but none aside from the wildlings and Night's Watch are aware of it.

Its interesting that you refer to Theons sister as Asha as in the tv show her name is Yara.

Son0vagun

username123 wrote: »

Its interesting that you refer to Theons sister as Asha as in the tv show her name is Yara.

He Looks like a book reader to me!

Artful_Badger

Son0vagun wrote: »

He Looks like a book reader to me!

Get em lads !

calex71

@ALL Back seat moderation is no no, use the report post button if there are issues with apost , any further carry on or detailing of the thread will result in warning etc.

@THFC If you have ready the books this is not the thread for you to be posting in really. I will be reviewing any posts you make here in case of spoilers etc.

Dan_Solo

Promise I'm not a reader! Not even interested in the books. Too generic for my liking.
It's a funny one that linked "spoiler", as you COULD possibly work it out from just watching the episode, but you'd want to be Sherlock bleedin' Holmes.
Anyway, I'm still not buying the why, at least the why do it at the wedding itself instead of later.

Dan_Solo

username123 wrote: »

Its interesting that you refer to Theons sister as Asha as in the tv show her name is Yara.

Although you'd have to be one of the dreaded evil READERS too to know that?

iamanengine

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Although you'd have to be one of the dreaded evil READERS too to know that?

But you may have only read the 1st 2/3 books :cool:

Witcher

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Although you'd have to be one of the dreaded evil READERS too to know that?

Readers are allowed post in the non reader threads once they're not giving spoilers.

Grimebox

Dan_Solo wrote: »

Promise I'm not a reader! Not even interested in the books. Too generic for my liking.
It's a funny one that linked "spoiler", as you COULD possibly work it out from just watching the episode, but you'd want to be Sherlock bleedin' Holmes.
Anyway, I'm still not buying the why, at least the why do it at the wedding itself instead of later.

Whoever is responsible, is at the wedding. There is no greater alibi than being in plain sight. I'm convinced the eunuch fella knew about it. He wasn't happy throughout the whole wedding.

GerB40

username123 wrote: »

Its interesting that you refer to Theons sister as Asha as in the tv show her name is Yara.

You rumbled him... This lads comments can potentially fúck up the story for everyone so I'd be wary.

rok

I reckon:

Oleanna

killed

Joffrey

, dunno if Margery is in on it.
The Fool Dontos Hollard appearing and gifting this necklace to Sansa and then

shepherding her away

is too random for me. Sansa's necklace

now missing 1 stone (due to Oleanna) will be the perceived poisoned murder weapon.

I reckon he's on Oleanna's payroll and is

setting Sansa up.

Either that or

LittleFinger

is in on it somehow but bit of a risk for him.
Or else

Cersei

did it

Is it fair to say that if a Wedding is not

consummated

then it is null and void?


how do I get rid of the "Spoiler:" text?

Grimebox

Where's Littlefinger actually? Completely forgot about him

TimeToShine

I have read the books and this will be my only post in the thread but anyone who has read the books really shouldn't post here at all. Moderators should almost ban anyone who can be proven to have read the books for the sake of the vast majority ITT. It's very refreshing seeing what other people think might happen and contributing to it with informed "speculation" is going to ruin the thread both for the show watchers and the readers who come here to see how everyone else handles certain outcomes. There are certain "theories" going around here that are most definitely not formulated based on the show alone so please have some consideration and common sense and leave it out.

Da Shins Kelly

kryogen wrote: »

Not all the stories can move at the same pace, some need to be built up slowly, kept on the back burner but the audience still kept aware they are happening tbh.

Its integral to telling a huge story like this

His story has been on the back burner for quite some time now. There's been very little shake up there at all.

Witcher

TimeToShine wrote: »

I have read the books and this will be my only post in the thread but anyone who has read the books really shouldn't post here at all. Moderators should almost ban anyone who can be proven to have read the books for the sake of the vast majority ITT. It's very refreshing seeing what other people think might happen and contributing to it with informed "speculation" is going to ruin the thread both for the show watchers and the readers who come here to see how everyone else handles certain outcomes. There are certain "theories" going around here that are most definitely not formulated based on the show alone so please have some consideration and common sense and leave it out.

As I posted a few pages back; known book readers posting here aren't a problem.

I'm a reader anf I often post in thesd threads because there tends to be more discussion about the actial episode in these threads compared to the reader ones. I know some other readers feel the same too.

The problem here is that some people are claiming to have not read the books and are coming up with 'theories' here, if the mods ban known readers from these threads, that sh1t will still continue.

rok

Grimebox wrote: »

That whole story with Bran is really testing me. He his just following his visions with no indication of what they mean. We also have no idea who these two kids who joined him are. It would be fitting in this show if he randomly got killed all of a sudden.

Agreed, the purists/book fans may disagree but I'm sick to sh1t of the Bran Jojen and Meera storyline, makes for crap viewing.

Artful_Badger

Grimebox wrote: »

Where's Littlefinger actually? Completely forgot about him

Tywin sent him to the Vale to marry the mad one didn't he ?

username123

GerB40 wrote: »

You rumbled him... This lads comments can potentially fúck up the story for everyone so I'd be wary.

I'm a declared reader. I occasionally post in these threads but don't give spoilers or try to pass my opinion as a non book reader.

rok

What do ye make of the recasting of Daario Naharis?
new Daario isn't as half as fearsome lookin as the last Daario and hardly looks like he'll have Khaleesi weak at the knees

apparently Gregor the Mountain Klegane is recast too

Da Shins Kelly

Don't really understand what someone who has read the books is getting out of posting practical spoilers in a thread for non-book readers? What exactly does anyone get out of 'predicting' what's going to happen when you already know for certain? And it's pretty sh*tty to ruin it for everyone else just cos you want the satisfaction of being 'right'.

username123

rok wrote: »

What do ye make of the recasting of Daario Naharis?
new Daario isn't as half as fearsome lookin as the last Daario and hardly looks like he'll have Khaleesi weak at the knees

apparently Gregor the Mountain Klegane is recast too

We've only barely seen him but not hugely impressed. The last fella looked a bit exotic, this one looks kinda ordinary. I'm not sure his chemistry with Danyerys is as good either.

Witcher

Da Shins Kelly wrote: »

Don't really understand what someone who has read the books is getting out of posting practical spoilers in a thread for non-book readers? What exactly does anyone get out of 'predicting' what's going to happen when you already know for certain? And it's pretty sh*tty to ruin it for everyone else just cos you want the satisfaction of being 'right'.

Being able to quote their post in the future and say 'called it' I would imagine.