Season 4; Episode 2: 'The Lion and the Rose'; *Have NOT* Read the Books

iamanengine

Yessssssssssssssss what an episode, sets it up great for a Who done it? type scenario. Looks like Tyrion will get the initial blame but doubt very much he will go down for it, but with GoT who knows what could happen. That said I doubt Tywin would let that happen. F*cken Cersei!

The rest of the episode in was a little less memorable but in fairness it seemed like it was building up to something crazy happening at the end, and they delivered

I love Bran in the books (only have read to book 3) but for some reason I cannot stand him in the show, find his story is portrayed way more interesting in the books.

Permabear

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

to screw up her image with the public. after Marjorie saying that the food would go to the poor publicly and then Cersei ensuring it didn't it would make Marjorie look bad.

Fizman

Actually, it's pretty obvious that Joffrey was coeliac, therefore gluten-intolerant, therefore the cake didn't agree with him resulting in some unrest.

ShaggyQueen

Why did Roose Bolton ally with the Lannisters? He says Tywin gave him the North but knows the north will rally around a Stark. Surely he would have known about Sansa and Tyrion?

Saganist

ShaggyQueen wrote: »

Why did Roose Bolton ally with the Lannisters? He says Tywin gave him the North but knows the north will rally around a Stark. Surely he would have known about Sansa and Tyrion?

Didn't Tywin appoint Roose Bolton as Warden of the North until Tyrions and Sansa's child comes of age ? That was my reading of the situation.

Tyrion ends up with Winterfell eventually and Roose gains Torren Square ?

paulbok

golfball37 wrote: »

The Bran stuff is boring and needs to get somewhere, at least give us an idea of where its heading? The actor is too old to play the little boy too.

He's really grown up since last season

obriendj

ShaggyQueen wrote: »

Why did Roose Bolton ally with the Lannisters? He says Tywin gave him the North but knows the north will rally around a Stark. Surely he would have known about Sansa and Tyrion?

i think he is more concerned of a male stark who can be a king or leader. there are not many female leaders in GoT. Apart from the dragon one and the crazy sister of Catelyn.

ShaggyQueen

Saganist wrote: »

Didn't Tywin appoint Roose Bolton as Warden of the North until Tyrions and Sansa's child comes of age ? That was my reading of the situation.

Tyrion ends up with Winterfell eventually and Roose gains Torren Square ?

I forget now but thats a fairly bad deal, basically gets to rule the north for a while after turning everybody against him

obriendj wrote: »

i think he is more concerned of a male stark who can be a king or leader. there are not many female leaders in GoT. Apart from the dragon one and the crazy sister of Catelyn.

Yeah but Tywin tells Tyrion to get Sansa pregnant so that their children can rule the North

Guill

How he was killed:

http://imgur.com/gallery/2DtPH

Artful_Badger

ShaggyQueen wrote: »

Why did Roose Bolton ally with the Lannisters? He says Tywin gave him the North but knows the north will rally around a Stark. Surely he would have known about Sansa and Tyrion?

Because allying with the Lannisters meant an immediate end to the war with him getting immediate control of the north to do as he pleased and on the Lannisters good side regardless of how it panned out long term.

If he hadn't he'd be facing the Lannisters and Stannis as Robs bannerman simply to keep what he already had in the north.

iamanengine

Guill wrote: »

How he was killed:

http://imgur.com/gallery/2DtPH

Is it a joke link or a real one? Cos if it's real it has no place here :P

mayordenis

It's a link to a bunch of screengrabs from the episode that show how it was done, seems more or less definite in my eyes, so will remove some of the mystery.

iamanengine

mayordenis wrote: »

It's a link to a bunch of screengrabs from the episode that show how it was done, seems more or less definite in my eyes, so will remove some of the mystery.

Ahhhhhhh temptation beckons me with her sweet grasp but I must resist.

ShaggyQueen

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Because allying with the Lannisters meant an immediate end to the war with him getting immediate control of the north to do as he pleased and on the Lannisters good side regardless of how it panned out long term.

If he hadn't he'd be facing the Lannisters and Stannis as Robs bannerman simply to keep what he already had in the north.

Yeah maybe so, but he was Robbs right hand man, so he surely could have had some chance of improving his position if they'd won. As it is now, the North hates him, the Iron Islanders hold parts of it and Tyrion/Sansa could have a child to claim Winterfell and control of the North again. Wouldn't be a decision I would have made

Mickeroo

iamanengine wrote: »

Is it a joke link or a real one? Cos if it's real it has no place here :P

It's real and was most likely made by someone who read the book, don't click it.

Maximus Alexander

Mickeroo wrote: »

It's real and was most likely made by someone who read the book, don't click it.

Having both read the books and clicked the link, what's shown on the link isn't really in the books, but could have been deduced from watching the scene a few times with a sharp eye.

It's a spoiler, I guess, but not really a spoiler from the books.

GerB40

Pistons Life wrote: »

Best episode ever, just hoped it was more painful death.
I think we will now will have to hate his mother.

Don't forget about Ramsay Snow....

iamanengine

Mickeroo wrote: »

It's real and was most likely made by someone who read the book, don't click it.

Cheers! Even if not a book spoiler I still don't wanna know til the show gives it away!

Mickeroo

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

Having both read the books and clicked the link, what's shown on the link isn't really in the books, but could have been deduced from watching the scene a few times with a sharp eye.

It's a spoiler, I guess, but not really a spoiler from the books.

True or it was deduced by someone who knew exactly what they were looking for, either way I can't imagine most people would want to ruin any mystery on themselves.

EyeSight

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

But if all the food was poisoned they would all die. Also all the dogs would die after they ate it and fingers would point to Cersei
So that doesn't make sense

thefa

ShaggyQueen wrote: »

Yeah maybe so, but he was Robbs right hand man, so he surely could have had some chance of improving his position if they'd won. As it is now, the North hates him, the Iron Islanders hold parts of it and Tyrion/Sansa could have a child to claim Winterfell and control of the North again. Wouldn't be a decision I would have made

He switched sides when the war was turning against Robb. Unrest in the North Army's leadership over Robb's decision to marry Talisa which impeded their alliance with the Freys. Losing Jaime Lannister as a hostage(Catelyn letting him go, not when Roose struck a deal and released him) which eventually led to the Karstark leader kiiling the boys and Karstark being beheaded which lost Robb a large chunk of his army. Robb wasn't losing battles but was still losing the war. Bolton was jumping ship. In his comments to Walder Frey, he did not seem to have a good opinion of Robb on a personal level either.

Roose being made Warden of the North with new land entitlements and having the support of the Lannisters made more sense that ending up on the losing side. Roose has no living trueborn son so I doubt the long-term prospect of Tyrion and Sansa having a kid to take over was that much of a let down. In any case, a lot can happen in the interim and being the warden of the North gives him time to consolidate.

Dan_Solo

EyeSight wrote: »

But if all the food was poisoned they would all die. Also all the dogs would die after they ate it and fingers would point to Cersei
So that doesn't make sense

I said this earlier. Don't see how it could be the pie. How much poison would it take for a pie that size! Not to mention the doves inside it were fine...
What I don't get about any of the poisoned wine theories is how anybody could've known Joffrey would make it so much of a fuss with Tyrion to cover their tracks.

ShaggyQueen

thefa wrote: »

He switched sides when the war was turning against Robb. Unrest in the North Army's leadership over Robb's decision to marry Talisa which impeded their alliance with the Freys. Losing Jaime Lannister as a hostage(Catelyn letting him go, not when Roose struck a deal and released him) which eventually led to the Karstark leader kiiling the boys and Karstark being beheaded which lost Robb a large chunk of his army. Robb wasn't losing battles but was still losing the war. Bolton was jumping ship. In his comments to Walder Frey, he did not seem to have a good opinion of Robb on a personal level either.

Roose being made Warden of the North with new land entitlements and having the support of the Lannisters made more sense that ending up on the losing side. Roose has no living trueborn son so I doubt the long-term prospect of Tyrion and Sansa having a kid to take over was that much of a let down. In any case, a lot can happen in the interim and being the warden of the North gives him time to consolidate.

Thanks, forgotten about some of that, makes his decision look a bit more understandable. Thoughts Robbs decision to behead Karstark was especially stupid

Degag

iamanengine wrote: »

Looks like Tyrion will get the initial blame but doubt very much he will go down for it, but with GoT who knows what could happen. That said I doubt Tywin would let that happen. F*cken Cersei!

I said the same in the first series - I said they won't kill Ned, he's the star of the show, he's the.....

So I can't say I have a lot of hope for Tyrion!

Also, wasn't it Roose's men who cut Jaime's hand off? I can't remember rightly but surely that would have strained relations between the Lannisters and the Boltons?

thefa

ShaggyQueen wrote: »

Thanks, forgotten about some of that, makes his decision look a bit more understandable. Thoughts Robbs decision to behead Karstark was especially stupid

Ya, I think they were trying to portray him as a bit too like Ned in the rules were the rules and wasn't making an exception no matter who the person was. Ned would have married the Frey girl though and avoided the whole thing if he was in Robb's shoes I'd say!

thefa

Degag wrote: »

I said the same in the first series - I said they won't kill Ned, he's the star of the show, he's the.....

So I can't say I have a lot of hope for Tyrion!

Also, wasn't it Roose's men who cut Jaime's hand off? I can't remember rightly but surely that would have strained relations between the Lannisters and the Boltons?

Roose had deployed his men to recapture Jaime for Robb(or so he said) but his captain decided to take Jaime down a peg when he is captured and cuts off his hand. Roose releases Jaime and tells Jaime to let his father know he had nothing to do with his maiming.

TheIrishGrover

Dan_Solo

What's the difference between a nweb and a show-watcher in that?

Precious flower

Great episode, I'm liking Oberyn Martell too, he's funny, seems a bit psychotic!:D Kind of thought Joffery's death would be more brutal!:( Really going to miss him as a character though!

Bacchus

Regarding that link being posted with a theory on what killed Joffrey. I looked at it with the expectation that is purely a theory from someone who had not read the books. Please book readers, do not confirm nor deny if it is a spoiler from the books. Thanks