Work Related Suicide

delthedriver

It was reported in The Guardian & Irish Times this week that Orange the French Telecoms Giant are being investigated following a fresh wave of work related suicides.

Absolutely shocking!


Could this be happening in Irish workplaces?

Bipolar Joe

No, it's happening in France. You literally just typed that yourself.

solomafioso

http://www.aware.ie/

http://www.pieta.ie/

delthedriver

Bipolar Joe wrote: »

No, it's happening in France. You literally just typed that yourself.

Apologies Joe,

You can google and find the relevant links from Irish Times and The Guardian for yourself. I would post the links if I could!

Why ever do you think I simply typed this ?

Why would such an issue be exclusive to France ?

My name is URL

Crippling depression and anxiety isn't exclusive to any one nation or industry.

petrolcan

delthedriver wrote: »

Apologies Joe,

You can google and find the relevant links from Irish Times and The Guardian for yourself. I would post the links if I could!

Post the links.

Why ever do you think I simply typed this ?

Because you didn't post any links.

whirlpool

My name is URL wrote: »

Crippling depression and anxiety isn't exclusive to any one nation or industry.

Not exclusive, no, but potentially more prevalent.

delthedriver

petrolcan wrote: »

Post the links.



Because you didn't post any links.

www.irishtimes.com/business/series of staff suicides at French telecoms giant investigated.

Hope above link works !

If link does not work I will repost it tomorrow. Apologies

delthedriver

petrolcan wrote: »

Post the links.



Because you didn't post any links.

Ok , I have tried to add link to Irish Times.

Please have a read and see for yourself.

Kindest wishes

Panda_Turtle

I thought the French were supposed to have a decent work life balance

delthedriver

Please find full link below.

Apologies for any confusion



http://www.irishtimes.com/business/series-of-staff-suicides-at-french-telecoms-giant-investigated-1.1732080


Worth a read.


Do similar issues exist in Irish workplaces?

delthedriver

Panda_Turtle wrote: »

I thought the French were supposed to have a decent work life balance

Very true.

On the surface Irish workers enjoy a good work life balance also.

The Orange Telecoms situation is frightening! It is not the first time either!

Suicide is on the increase in Ireland, how many needless deaths are work related?

Perhaps Irish employers are better than their French Counterparts?

shopaholic01

Le Parisien published an internal company document from 2006 in which Lombard allegedly told directors he was determined to cut 22,000 jobs, adding “I’ll do it in one way or the other, by the window or by the door.”
Mr Lombard denied that his methods were the cause of the deaths. He remains under investigation. An official report by the works inspectorate in 2010 blamed a climate of “management harassment” it said had “psychologically weakened staff and attacked their physical and mental health”.
Since then, Patrick Ackermann, delegate for the SUD union and member of the observatory, said the situation had eased, but last month the group issued a warning to management of a “dramatic worsening” of morale within the company.

It sounds like a concentration camp. Are any Irish or Irish based companies like this?

Cuddlesworth

France has a male suicide rate of 22 per 100,000. Orange employees 160,000.

They still need around 10 to beat the average.

delthedriver

shopaholic01 wrote: »

It sounds like a concentration camp. Are any Irish or Irish based companies like this?

You have raised a very good question.

My guess Irish employers or companies based in Ireland cannot be too different .

The important thing to be aware of is there are laws to protect both the psychological health as well as physical health of Employees. There are specialist Law firms who concentrate on Employment Law.

Your health is your wealth.

CelticRambler

Panda_Turtle wrote: »

I thought the French were supposed to have a decent work life balance

A popular misconception. Things are pretty grim in France at the moment for people of working age. Youth unemployment is almost as bad as any of the other Mediterranean countries, the overall U/E rate is rising steadily month after month, long-term U/E is up too. 85% of all jobs created last year were in a new self-employment structure, no companies are hiring, so anyone with a job knows that if they lose theirs, there's precious little chance of getting another.

There are two huge cultural differences between France and most of the rest of Europe when it comes to the workplace. The first is the gulf between "the boss" and "the workers". I know it's common for employees in Ireland or the UK to moan about the boss, but most of the time they appreciate the fact that the business owner probably puts in twice as many hours as they do, and they don't begrudge him/her a decent lifestyle earned after years of hard graft. In France, there's a constant tension that wears away at people.

Secondly, businesses in France have traditionally run as well-defined, very specific trades or professions. This extends into many other areas of life, but the internet and multi-discipline business practices coming in from other European countries are wreaking havoc with the mental health of people who've lived in "little boxes" for decades. They literally cannot cope with being asked to do two "different" jobs as part of their duties.

Dilly.

shopaholic01 wrote: »

It sounds like a concentration camp. Are any Irish or Irish based companies like this?

Worked in a crèche like this....of all fcuking industries for management to bully their staff!! Stupid b of a supervisor lives very close to me now aswell, there's times I feel like knocking on her door an telling her exactly what she put myself and my colleagues through! Unfortunately the place is probably the same now, bullying is very hard to prove!

Edited to add: great post Hellrazer, I would definitely echo your advice for anyone in that situation to either take action (keep a diary of everything that happens, times, dates, witnesses etc.) or else just get out of their as soon as possible! I tried fighting things but not one other member of staff would back me up for fear of losing their job, it was so frustrating I decided to just leave! Best decision I ever made! I didn't realise just how much that environment was effecting me until I left!

SEPT 23 1989

what about the man who owns the business

waking up at four in the morning worrying over the bank and the revenue

you never see this as an employee

you get laid off you can walk in and get 188 a week

what does he get?

delthedriver

Dilly. wrote: »

Worked in a crèche like this....of all fcuking industries for management to bully their staff!! Stupid b of a supervisor lives very close to me now aswell, there's times I feel like knocking on her door an telling her exactly what she put myself and my colleagues through! Unfortunately the place is probably the same now, bullying is very hard to prove!

Edited to add: great post Hellrazer, I would definitely echo your advice for anyone in that situation to either take action (keep a diary of everything that happens, times, dates, witnesses etc.) or else just get out of their as soon as possible! I tried fighting things but not one other member of staff would back me up for fear of losing their job, it was so frustrating I decided to just leave! Best decision I ever made! I didn't realise just how much that environment was effecting me until I left!

Well done on getting out of that environment. Life is for living , not putting up with that stress every day!

delthedriver

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

what about the man who owns the business

waking up at four in the morning worrying over the bank and the revenue

you never see this as an employee

you get laid off you can walk in and get 188 a week

what does he get?

Interesting comments.

However does the employer have the right to bully his employee leading to a physical and psychological breakdown or ultimately death by suicide?

SamforMayo

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

what about the man who owns the business

waking up at four in the morning worrying over the bank and the revenue

you never see this as an employee

you get laid off you can walk in and get 188 a week

what does he get?

I have huge sympathy for people who are in business and struggling but that does not give them the right to make other peoples life a misery. They should work with their employees not against them. How would being a bully help?

SEPT 23 1989

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

what about the man who owns the business

waking up at four in the morning worrying over the bank and the revenue

you never see this as an employee

you get laid off you can walk in and get 188 a week

what does he get?

Maybe so, but that doesn’t give anybody the right to bully staff, if he treats his staff like shít then they'll probably work poorly as well.

ilovebiology

delthedriver wrote: »

It was reported in The Guardian & Irish Times this week that Orange the French Telecoms Giant are being investigated following a fresh wave of work related suicides.

Absolutely shocking!


Could this be happening in Irish workplaces?

Oh yes it is happening in irish workplaces, and is a HUGE contribution to suicide in Ireland. Links to follow.

pharmaton

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

Sadly, there's still others working there. As a shy, retiring violet, I'm lucky that I really never have had to endure bullying at work of any kind. I insist on politeness, regardless. Insist is actually too mild a word. Be polite. It's free, it's nice, and it's nice to be nice. I'm nice to the people who work for me, I'm nice to the people who hire us to do work. If there's roaring and shouting and bullying, somthing has gone badly wrong. If someone roared, shouted or bullied in my direction, we'd be done. Full stop. Be nice, it's nice to be nice. Work shouldn't be a misery, it should be work.

Polite has little to do with it, an ego maniacal boss or co-worker isn't going to care about your personal demeanor when they're on a mission.

I'm lucky in that I've never had to work for a bad boss, I don't remember one who made life difficult for me personally (there was one not so great but they were done for embezzlement at a later stage) and usually had a good relationship with them, a few even became personal friends. On the flip side, I've worked with some difficult people but I think once you have an understanding of the politics of the game of bullying at work it becomes much easier to overcome it.

I'd recommend counselling to those experiencing bullying at work, it's vital to have a safe space to communicate and express your emotions, and it will get you to a place where you can make it better.

ilovebiology

This is my story I shared here a while ago -

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056959994


It turns out I am not the only one. Its a little old but a survey shows the extent of this very serious silent epidemic that is a huge contribution to suicides in Ireland, and is and has increased over the past few years.

http://www.headline.ie/news/headline/2008/oct/21/workplace-bullying-link-25-suicides/

http://www.buseco.monash.edu.au/mgt/research/working-papers/2008/wp10-08.pdf

Stavros Murphy

pharmaton wrote: »

Polite has little to do with it, an ego maniacal boss or co-worker isn't going to care about your personal demeanor when they're on a mission.

I'm lucky in that I've never had to work for a bad boss, I don't remember one who made life difficult for me personally (there was one not so great but they were done for embezzlement at a later stage) and usually had a good relationship with them, a few even became personal friends. On the flip side, I've worked with some difficult people but I think once you have an understanding of the politics of the game of bullying at work it becomes much easier to overcome it.

I'd recommend counselling to those experiencing bullying at work, it's vital to have a safe space to communicate and express your emotions, and it will get you to a place where you can make it better.

Then I'd cheerfully punch their adams apple out the back of their neck. Hence, most people are as polite to me as I am to them.

pharmaton

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

Then I'd cheerfully punch their adams apple out the back of their neck. Hence, most people are as polite to me as I am to them.

You have to accept the fact that, without becoming a criminal, most people are not going to choose this option. If it were that easy, there wouldn't be any bad bosses to talk about. They'd all have had their heads pumped full of lead. So you might as well relax and save yourself the time and energy and choose to do something constructive about it without resorting to their level of threatening behaviour.

Stavros Murphy

pharmaton wrote: »

You have to accept the fact that, without becoming a criminal, most people are not going to choose this option. If it were that easy, there wouldn't be any bad bosses to talk about. They'd all have had their heads pumped full of lead. So you might as well relax and save yourself the time and energy and choose to do something constructive about it without resorting to their level of threatening behaviour.

I'm the sweetest guy going tbh, I like to be a gentleman for as long as is possible. There just has to be that little slivver of ice that makes people mind their manners. Bullies get away with it because they get away with it. If you just simply refuse to let them get away with it, they stop. I'm not advocating hitting them, just pull them up verbally if that's your style. But if people keep on taking guff "because that's the way Mr Mike the manager goes on and sure isn't he under pressure these days.." then Mr Mike will continue being a douche nozzle and making peoples lives a misery. Well, you ain't making my life a misery old fruit, that's for sure. Bear in mind the title of this thread. We're not discussing someone having a one-off bit of banter here.

ilovebiology

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

I'm the sweetest guy going tbh, I like to be a gentleman for as long as is possible. There just has to be that little slivver of ice that makes people mind their manners. Bullies get away with it because they get away with it. If you just simply refuse to let them get away with it, they stop. I'm not advocating hitting them, just pull them up verbally if that's your style. But if people keep on taking guff "because that's the way Mr Mike the manager goes on and sure isn't he under pressure these days.." then Mr Mike will continue being a douche nozzle and making peoples lives a misery. Well, you ain't making my life a misery old fruit, that's for sure.

Or take them to the High Court! :pac:

Stavros Murphy

ilovebiology wrote: »

Or take them to the High Court! :pac:

Equally satisfying I reckon!

ilovebiology

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

Equally satisfying I reckon!

Wonderfully satisfying, it was sweet beating a brazen vindictive nasty employer. I could use other words to describe them, but I would probably be banned!!!

pharmaton

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

I'm the sweetest guy going tbh, I like to be a gentleman for as long as is possible. There just has to be that little slivver of ice that makes people mind their manners. Bullies get away with it because they get away with it. If you just simply refuse to let them get away with it, they stop. I'm not advocating hitting them, just pull them up verbally if that's your style. But if people keep on taking guff "because that's the way Mr Mike the manager goes on and sure isn't he under pressure these days.." then Mr Mike will continue being a douche nozzle and making peoples lives a misery. Well, you ain't making my life a misery old fruit, that's for sure. Bear in mind the title of this thread. We're not discussing someone having a one-off bit of banter here.

well if by throat punching someone you mean being assertive and standing up to a bully, grand. Otherwise, the reason why people get to the point of suicidal ideation is because the laws of society prevent them from actually throat punching their harasser.
By all means, tell your boss to fcuk off if he's being a dick. If you get to keep your job and he never bothers you again, great.

IrishEyes19

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

what about the man who owns the business

waking up at four in the morning worrying over the bank and the revenue

you never see this as an employee

you get laid off you can walk in and get 188 a week

what does he get?

this is completely irrelevant to the point though, if employers were treating their staff right, staff would only be too happy to work in a safe environment. No amount of stress allows for mental abuse.

ilovebiology

IrishEyes19 wrote: »

this is completely irrelevant to the point though, if employers were treating their staff right, staff would only be too happy to work in a safe environment. No amount of stress allows for mental abuse.

I agree with you 100% here. Employers have to follow the law, and if the law isn't followed, well then take them to court. No one in this day and age should be forced to put up with such reprehensible actions from an employer, and no one should be forced out of their job, which was exactly why I went off to the High Court.

Stavros Murphy

pharmaton wrote: »

well if by throat punching someone you mean being assertive and standing up to a bully, grand. Otherwise, the reason why people get to the point of suicidal ideation is because the laws of society prevent them from actually throat punching their harasser.
By all means, tell your boss to fcuk off if he's being a dick. If you get to keep your job and he never bothers you again, great.

If someone's being a dick, the lads I'm with usually kinda do the foot shuffle as they know I just won't stand for it. Like I said, be polite, it costs nothing. Roaring and shouting will land you on your a55, simple as. It's not very PC, but I have a full head of hair and sleep good at night. I'm getting better at just smiling and walking away, but I put that down to old age and mellowing, but I 100% walk away and never back again. And fcuk the consequences. I'd rather eat grass than listen to shyte.

ilovebiology

Stavros Murphy wrote: »

If someone's being a dick, the lads I'm with usually kinda do the foot shuffle as they know I just won't stand for it. Like I said, be polite, it costs nothing. Roaring and shouting will land you on your a55, simple as. It's not very PC, but I have a full head of hair and sleep good at night. I'm getting better at just smiling and walking away, but I put that down to old age and mellowing, but I 100% walk away and never back again. And fcuk the consequences.

Just to let you all know, even in an employment situation, if someone you are working with, or even a manager is abusing or intimidating you, you can go to the guards. The guards can have them arrested, and forward the case onto the DPP for prosecution in the courts.

If an employer see's you doing this, or if you even mention this to them, by god they will back off.

It's an excellent tool to use to keep your job, work in your job free of any sort of abuse, and get them prosecuted, and you can do it all for free, as the DPP does it for you, the government/guards pay all your legal costs.


I will also add an important point for all of you who may have trouble with an idiot colleague, or a manager at work. Should you leave your job, or even stay in your job, to go to the guards, and for the guards to have the perpetrators arrested, and onto the DPP, there is NO time limit on you pursuing or initiating this. In other words, there is no statute of limitations on the guards taking on a harassment case for you. So, if you were harassed 10 years ago at work, you can still go into the guards (As long as you have strong evidence/witnesses) and start the process. It can give you peace, help you heal, and see some justice done for how wrongly you were treated.

delthedriver

ilovebiology wrote: »

This is my story I shared here a while ago -

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056959994


It turns out I am not the only one. Its a little old but a survey shows the extent of this very serious silent epidemic that is a huge contribution to suicides in Ireland, and is and has increased over the past few years.

http://www.headline.ie/news/headline/2008/oct/21/workplace-bullying-link-25-suicides/

http://www.buseco.monash.edu.au/mgt/research/working-papers/2008/wp10-08.pdf

Thank you for posting your work story. Well done on fighting back. It takes a lot of guts.
Outrageous behaviour on part of employer. How long did it take to get to The High Court.? The pressure on you must have been horrendous.

I have looked at the other two documents on bullying in the workplace. Interestingly they were produced in 2008. What has happened since? Have employers taken this on Board.

It is shocking to learn that 25 per cent of suicides are work related!

ilovebiology

delthedriver wrote: »

Thank you for posting your work story. Well done on fighting back. It takes a lot of guts.
Outrageous behaviour on part of employer. How long did it take to get to The High Court.? The pressure on you must have been horrendous.

I have looked at the other two documents on bullying in the workplace. Interestingly they were produced in 2008. What has happened since? Have employers taken this on Board.

It is shocking to learn that 25 per cent of suicides are work related!

For legal reasons I can't say how long it took to get sorted out, but yes it was horrendous. The law was on my side, and I used it all the time, and beat them.

I think in one of those reports it says that in 2008 or 2009, 300 or 400 people committed suicide in Ireland because of work related problems. It needs to be raised by the government, its a huge problem, and I believe the figure for suicides in this matter has continued to rise since then, which is very sad.

It is fantastic that depression, and suicides are being so openly spoken about in Ireland, and in the media at present. It is really wonderful. However, people in the media are not discussing WHY people are taking their own lives, and work related problems is a huge factor, and percentage of the people who have died, because of ruthless murdering employers.

delthedriver

We live in interesting times.

Over the last few years. Bullying has been raised as an issue both in schools and via the internet.

Many people in public life have highlighted the issue, as a result there is greater public awareness of the issue.

Similarly suicide , depression are subjects which are openly discussed and there is greater awareness and understanding.

Bullying in the workplace which may account for 25 per cent of work related suicide does not get attention. Dr O'Moore of TCD has produced her report and findings on yet her evidence is obviously being ignored as suicide is a very hot issue.

One appreciates the economic downturn since 2008, but this should not be an excuse for what is criminal activity. Ie bullying.

Surely this issue should be getting the same attention as bullying in schools.

Imposing Fines on a large corporation for bullying is chicken feed, responsibility lies with The MD and Directors. Perhaps a little time behind bars may give them time to come up with a new corporate culture where bullying will not be tolerated at any level.

Absolutely no employee deserves to be bullied to the point where they take their own life as a result. It is outrageous that a Company would then suggest that the deceased person had personal problems outside work.

What are the Health And Safety Authority doing about this?
Sure they are quick to turn up on a building site for an inspection of safety procedures and equipment. However should they also be looking at other businesses too.?

pharmaton

delthedriver wrote: »

What are the Health And Safety Authority doing about this?
Sure they are quick to turn up on a building site for an inspection of safety procedures and equipment. However should they also be looking at other businesses too.?

http://www.hsa.ie/eng/Workplace_Health/Bullying_at_Work/

ilovebiology

delthedriver wrote: »

We live in interesting times.

Over the last few years. Bullying has been raised as an issue both in schools and via the internet.

Many people in public life have highlighted the issue, as a result there is greater public awareness of the issue.

Similarly suicide , depression are subjects which are openly discussed and there is greater awareness and understanding.

Bullying in the workplace which may account for 25 per cent of work related suicide does not get attention. Dr O'Moore of TCD has produced her report and findings on yet her evidence is obviously being ignored as suicide is a very hot issue.

One appreciates the economic downturn since 2008, but this should not be an excuse for what is criminal activity. Ie bullying.

Surely this issue should be getting the same attention as bullying in schools.

Imposing Fines on a large corporation for bullying is chicken feed, responsibility lies with The MD and Directors. Perhaps a little time behind bars may give them time to come up with a new corporate culture where bullying will not be tolerated at any level.

Absolutely no employee deserves to be bullied to the point where they take their own life as a result. It is outrageous that a Company would then suggest that the deceased person had personal problems outside work.

What are the Health And Safety Authority doing about this?
Sure they are quick to turn up on a building site for an inspection of safety procedures and equipment. However should they also be looking at other businesses too.?

Safety of equipment is one thing, but bullying and harassment to the pint of almost pushing someone to suicide is in my opinion a very serious violent assault on someone, but not just on that person, but on their family, relationships, social life, everything.

Bullying and intimidation IS a criminal offence. Many many irish people are not aware that in a work situation, you can have sorted by going to the guards. The guards will spend some time looking into it, and within a month or two have the perpetrators arrested. Once the employer knows you are intending on doing this, or the guards have contacted them, the employer, or the bullies will back off, as they will be too afraid of you, and the guards if they don't!

I went all the way to the High Court with my employer, and it took time, but going down the criminal route as I have outlined here is faster than getting to the High Court!

I also wish to state that you can pursue both avenues at the SAME TIME. You are free to start a High Court case if you suffered with severe depression, psychological problems, and any sort of injury to you or your health because of the actions of your employer. At the same time, you can go to the guards, and start a criminal case - a harassment case against them too.

Knowing both these options is important for anyone to know as a means of keeping your sanity, and could even save your life.

The basis for doing all of this is knowing the law, and your entitlements at work, that helps alot, but these avenues above are a VERY powerful weapon against any terrible employer.

I feel people need to know this, and knowing what to do can save you, your health, and your life, and it could certainly save alot of people from what I went through, as at the time I didn't know any of this, as it isn't very commonly known amongst people.

I hope this can help someone, and their life, just knowing this.

ilovebiology

pharmaton wrote: »

http://www.hsa.ie/eng/Workplace_Health/Bullying_at_Work/

This is helpful, but they fail to mention you can go to the guards straight away if you are being intimdated or abused in anyway at work to the point where it is effecting your health and/or pushing you to suicide.

delthedriver

ilovebiology wrote: »

Safety of equipment is one thing, but bullying and harassment to the pint of almost pushing someone to suicide is in my opinion a very serious violent assault on someone, but not just on that person, but on their family, relationships, social life, everything.

Bullying and intimidation IS a criminal offence. Many many irish people are not aware that in a work situation, you can have sorted by going to the guards. The guards will spend some time looking into it, and within a month or two have the perpetrators arrested. Once the employer knows you are intending on doing this, or the guards have contacted them, the employer, or the bullies will back off, as they will be too afraid of you, and the guards if they don't!

I went all the way to the High Court with my employer, and it took time, but going down the criminal route as I have outlined here is faster than getting to the High Court!

I also wish to state that you can pursue both avenues at the SAME TIME. You are free to start a High Court case if you suffered with severe depression, psychological problems, and any sort of injury to you or your health because of the actions of your employer. At the same time, you can go to the guards, and start a criminal case - a harassment case against them too.

Knowing both these options is important for anyone to know as a means of keeping your sanity, and could even save your life.

The basis for doing all of this is knowing the law, and your entitlements at work, that helps alot, but these avenues above are a VERY powerful weapon against any terrible employer.

I feel people need to know this, and knowing what to do can save you, your health, and your life, and it could certainly save alot of people from what I went through, as at the time I didn't know any of this, as it isn't very commonly known amongst people.

I hope this can help someone, and their life, just knowing this.

Thank you for your post. I am sure this May help people change their mind on how to deal with a Bullying Employer.

Some of these psychopaths need to be taken to task over the way they treat their staff.

How can the issue of bullying in the workplace be raised in the same way as bullying in school?

ilovebiology

delthedriver wrote: »

Thank you for your post. I am sure this May help people change their mind on how to deal with a Bullying Employer.

Some of these psychopaths need to be taken to task over the way they treat their staff.

How can the issue of bullying in the workplace be raised in the same way as bullying in school?

Alarming statistics like I have shown are increasing, and organisations who comprise these statistics and facts need to be doing ALOT more about this silent epidemic that is contributing to so many suicides in Ireland, all because of a terrible colleague, or manager. These organisations need to be bringing this to the attention of politicians/the government - I think there is a Minister for Mental Health too, as far as I know? What are these people doing? They need to do more, to save more people from suicide, and have employers jailed.

I have also found HR Departments to be absolutely useless, and if they do not deal with an employee's complaints of harassment, the individuals in HR should be held criminally negligible - as in High Court proceedings, or by the DPP in a criminal court.

I used the law very well with my case, but I have seen loopholes there too, and there are aspects in employment law that need to become very strict laws, and not just recommendations.

I hope it can help someone, as no one deserves to be treated in such a horrifying manner when all they want to do is do their job, and provide for their family.

The guards can have them arrested. The case would then be processed by the DPP, and be forwarded onto one of the criminal courts. The employer can then be either fined, or the bullies individually held accountable and jailed.

I am not 100% certain about this one, but I believe that if the bullies can have criminal records too, but a guard could tell you this to be 100% sure.

Jail is where all bullies belong.

delthedriver

ilovebiology wrote: »

Alarming statistics like I have shown are increasing, and organisations who comprise these statistics and facts need to be doing ALOT more about this silent epidemic that is contributing to so many suicides in Ireland, all because of a terrible colleague, or manager. These organisations need to be bringing this to the attention of politicians/the government - I think there is a Minister for Mental Health too, as far as I know? What are these people doing? They need to do more, to save more people from suicide, and have employers jailed.

I used the law very well with my case, but I have seen loopholes there too, and there are aspects in employment law that need to become very strict laws, and not just recommendations.

I hope it can help someone, as no one deserves to be treated in such a horrifying manner when all they want to do is do their job, and provide for their family.

The guards can have them arrested. The case would then be processed by the DPP, and be forwarded onto one of the criminal courts. The employer can then be either fined, or the bullies individually held accountable and jailed.

I am not 100% certain about this one, but I believe that if the bullies can have criminal records too, but a guard could tell you this to be 100% sure.

Jail is where all bullies belong.

Perhaps it would be no harm for people to lobby their TD to get the issue raised in the Dail. This way the item gets public attention and the relevant Government Bodies get themselves in gear.

25per cent of Suicides in Ireland are work related. That statistic is shocking , and it is too many unnecessary deaths.

pharmaton

ilovebiology wrote: »

This is helpful, but they fail to mention you can go to the guards straight away if you are being intimdated or abused in anyway at work to the point where it is effecting your health and/or pushing you to suicide.

I can only imagine that what you went through must have been horrific.
It helps to know though there are preventative measures in place and procedures that can be followed as laid out by Health and Safety too.
Sometimes it can be difficult confiding in others or finding someone to talk to. Some people don't want to make a fuss, especially if their self esteem has been affected, they might feel safer if they just keep their head down and carry on.
Talking to a counselor or therapist can help and while everything that is discussed there is private and confidential, in a court of law it can be requested as evidence.
More importantly it is an effective way of treating the issues that have resulted from the situation and offers possible ways of combating further instances in the long run.

delthedriver

pharmaton wrote: »

I can only imagine that what you went through must have been horrific.
It helps to know though there are preventative measures in place and procedures that can be followed as laid out by Health and Safety too.
Sometimes it can be difficult confiding in others or finding someone to talk to. Some people don't want to make a fuss, especially if their self esteem has been affected, they might feel safer if they just keep their head down and carry on.
Talking to a counselor or therapist can help and while everything that is discussed there is private and confidential, in a court of law it can be requested as evidence.
More importantly it is an effective way of treating the issues that have resulted from the situation and offers possible ways of combating further instances in the long run.

Well done!

Anyone embarking on a path of legal action absolutely must consult a Lawyer specialising in Employment Law.

Absolutely no point in going to X Smyth & Assocs, who specialise in the odd bit of conveyancing and wills.

ilovebiology

pharmaton wrote: »

I can only imagine that what you went through must have been horrific.
It helps to know though there are preventative measures in place and procedures that can be followed as laid out by Health and Safety too.
Sometimes it can be difficult confiding in others or finding someone to talk to. Some people don't want to make a fuss, especially if their self esteem has been affected, they might feel safer if they just keep their head down and carry on.
Talking to a counselor or therapist can help and while everything that is discussed there is private and confidential, in a court of law it can be requested as evidence.
More importantly it is an effective way of treating the issues that have resulted from the situation and offers possible ways of combating further instances in the long run.

Yes Discovery can be got from the other side about how badly your health was effected by the bullying/harassment, and how your health was badly effected to the point of suicide.

I agree with everything you say here, and you are correct. Therapy helped me, but when the bullying continues, it is very very difficult.

Look at it this way, if you go to the guards, they will let you know if you have a good case for prosecution. Even to pay a visit to an criminal solicitor to be certain of your case, will give you further confidence should you decide to go down the criminal route.

The guards can have the case looked into within a month or so, and then go to your employer and have them arrested. If they know you are starting criminal prosecution, they will back off, and there is no way they will cause you further harm or harassment as you are already taking them to court for that, and that will only fuel your own fire!

On top of that, should they decide to fire you (Highly unlikely) given the trouble they would already be in with the guards/DPP you can take them for Unfair Dismissal. If you have suffered any severe injuries as I have stated above, the Unfair Dismissal case, and your Personal Injury case can be all put together for a very strong High Court case.

The more you have against an employer, the stronger you are protecting yourself and your health, and the employer will back off and leave you alone. If you have started criminal proceedings, and you tell them you are starting a High Court case against them too, there is no way they would touch you.

The law is powerful, and the best weapon, and means of protecting you, your health, and allowing you to stay in your job free of harassment, if you know how to use the law. If you can see it from that point of view, you have alot of power against your employer in your hands.

However, it is up to each and every individual in their own situation, and whatever one decides to do is their decision, and respected in each instance. I can completely understand why someone would leave their job in circumstances where they are under so much pressure they are on the brink of suicide, however, the above information I hope can help someone too

ilovebiology

For anyone who is harassed, intimidated, bullied at work, this is the following legislation that can protect you from it. It is what the guards use, and is then followed through by the DPP, as I have explained above. You can have a look at the section on Harassment, Assault, Assault causing harm, Causing serious harm, or possibly coercion - depending on each individual situation a person may be in.

They are only small sections, and easy to understand, and not "Law" lanuage!

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1997/en/act/pub/0026/


Have a look, if you so wish.

LynnGrace

pharmaton wrote: »

Polite has little to do with it, an ego maniacal boss or co-worker isn't going to care about your personal demeanor when they're on a mission.

I'm lucky in that I've never had to work for a bad boss, I don't remember one who made life difficult for me personally (there was one not so great but they were done for embezzlement at a later stage) and usually had a good relationship with them, a few even became personal friends. On the flip side, I've worked with some difficult people but I think once you have an understanding of the politics of the game of bullying at work it becomes much easier to overcome it.

I'd recommend counselling to those experiencing bullying at work, it's vital to have a safe space to communicate and express your emotions, and it will get you to a place where you can make it better.

Totally agree. Unfortunately, I know also a case of work related suicide. There were no voices raised in that workplace. Bullying can be insidious, done with politeness, and a smile on the bully's face, nothing can be proven. Sad, but true, in my opinion.

ilovebiology

LynnGrace wrote: »

Totally agree. Unfortunately, I know also a case of work related suicide. There were no voices raised in that workplace. Bullying can be insidious, done with politeness, and a smile on the bully's face, nothing can be proven. Sad, but true, in my opinion.

Another case of work related suicide, it just goes to show how much of a very serious silent epidemic it is in this country, that so badly needs to be raised and addressed.

They deserve to be put before a criminal court, and in jail where they belong.