Grange Rath Update - payment of service charges

IN-THE-KNOW

Directed at horse7; Yes you are correct.

Pity about the grass cutting HOWEVER great to see residents making a stand and withholding their service charge payment UNTIL all questions are answered! From March 2013, former/current Directors have been dodging answering questions to residents about our accounts & now claimed "unauthorised changes" to our Memos & Arts. Now it has come to the time were they have to face residents at meetings with accounts information! The truth is certainly coming to light!!

Auh bliss....

IN-THE-KNOW

It has come to light that "certain residents" are under the impression that the now claimed "unauthorised changes" to our company Memos & Arts are under historic issues (old management company) which is very misleading to say the least!!!

These now claimed "unauthorised changes" to our company Memos & Arts happened during the time that the former/current Directors were elected in March'13. These now claimed "unauthorised changes" were signed by our current Company Secretary and former Company Solicitor in April'13. Our old management company were NOT INVOLVED at the time!!!

If only residents actually went to the bother in seeking the truth to why our company is in this state rather than spreading misleading statements. It cease to amaze me how some residents are only interested in why our grass is not being cut than to find out the actual truth of how our company was run with incomplete accounts etc... My God, I feel so sorry for these residents who are actually blinded by the truth - each to their own!!!

Lord TSC

IN-THE-KNOW wrote: »

If only residents actually went to the bother in seeking the truth to why our company is in this state rather than spreading misleading statements. It cease to amaze me how some residents are only interested in why our grass is not being cut than to find out the actual truth of how our company was run with incomplete accounts etc... My God, I feel so sorry for these residents who are actually blinded by the truth - each to their own!!!

With the greatest of respect, for the majority of residents, such fees are entirely to make sure the grass gets cut and the roads are kept in good condition. They don't want to get involved in trying to get that work done, and really don't want to get involved with some sort of mini Civil War.

I've been following this thread, the letters in through the letter boxes, but the reality is that the entire thing is a mess on both sides. There's three or four groups, all throwing round accusations and claims of lies. All parties have a habit of refusing to just use plain English, looking to hand out two page letters full of text written in semi-legal lingo. I've sat down to read through some of the letters a few times, get a few lines in and wonder what the hell I'm reading.

Instead of "feeling sorry", use the lack of grass cutting to talk to residents in plain English; "You may have noticed the grass isn't being cut; this is because X. We need to do Y to fix this issue". Not a two page letter but a two paragraph explanation.

Because the fact is, most homeowners don't want to get involved in what basically comes across like a handful of groups arguing pettily. If people, after all this time, still aren't responding to the serious issues, a new campaigning method may be required.

IN-THE-KNOW

Directed at Lord TSC; many thanks for your comments.

In order for residents to fully understand the history of this whole mess - get involved! Instead of reading threads, notices through the letterboxes and facebook messages, make a stand and get involved. Do the research, find out factual information and then make a statement.

Notices may be hand delivered into the letterboxes at the end of the month - it all depends on the action taken by our Company Solicitor!

everlast75

IN-THE-KNOW wrote: »

Directed at Lord TSC; many thanks for your comments.

In order for residents to fully understand the history of this whole mess - get involved! Instead of reading threads, notices through the letterboxes and facebook messages, make a stand and get involved. Do the research, find out factual information and then make a statement.

Notices may be hand delivered into the letterboxes at the end of the month - it all depends on the action taken by our Company Solicitor!

Who is our Company Solicitor? How much is he/she charging? Can you set out the amount of cases "we" are involved in, who are the other parties and the stage they are at? Is there any resolution in sight?

As the other poster commented the lack of upkeep of the Estate is a grave concern, especially in circumstances where a sizeable portion of us have paid our fees and the standard of care is slipping. I for one do not want this dispute used as a spurious excise not to pay maintenance fees.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

everlast75 wrote: »

I for one do not want this dispute used as a spurious excise not to pay maintenance fees.

Nail on the head, right there!

leonards

Helena Dazzling Penmanship wrote: »

Nail on the head, right there!

Any sane person reading this thread and reading the shoddy leaflets posted through the letter box can only come to one conclusion
-> the whole thing is a total mess
-> don't pay any more fees till the situation is cleaned up with full visibility of who is getting payed what out of the pot.

IN-THE-KNOW

Our 2013 Financial Statements were filed on the 18th May 2015. Please use the following link if you wish to purchase a copy.

New! B1 Annual Return
New! Accounts details

http://www.solocheck.ie/Irish-Compan...Limited-338217

Mylow

http://www.solocheck.ie/Irish-Company/Grange-Rath-Limited-338217

everlast75

everlast75 wrote: »

Who is our Company Solicitor? How much is he/she charging? Can you set out the amount of cases "we" are involved in, who are the other parties and the stage they are at? Is there any resolution in sight?

any chance of a reply to this please?

IN-THE-KNOW

Directed everlast75; unfortunately as per Boards.ie rules, I cannot give out the name of our Company Solicitor. However, the name of the Company Solicitor is on our 2013 Financial Statements and all owners would have been giving a copy before our AGM.

In relation to your other questions;
1) I'm under the impression that you were not present at our AGM because you would have seen that our Solicitor is a man.
2) I don't know how much he is charging.
3) We have been involved in 2 legal cases and the Solicitor outlined at our AGM that he was involved in other work along with the former Director regarding the accounts and I bet also that she is getting paid as I doubt very much that she would be doing the work for FOC.
4) Right now; there is no resolution in sight on my part until a full investigation into our company business has been carried out.

Regarding a resolution in sight with the other members - I can't answer this question on the basis that each individual member is responsible for his/her own decision in regards to withholding their fees. Please bear in mind that other members have more important concerns apart from why the grass is not getting cut. Some members are quick to forget that there is an underlining problem that will not go away and want to be resolved before our fees are handed over. The longer this underlining problem remains unresolved, the longer members will withhold their fees until the Directors, Agent, Auditors and Company Solicitor answer our questions. Should they withhold the answers from the members, then there is one question that comes to my mind - WHY are they withholding the answers?? Something to hide??

Feel free to make contact with our Agent in regards to the full answers of your questions as I'm sure they be more than happy to help.

everlast75

IN-THE-KNOW wrote: »

Directed everlast75; unfortunately as per Boards.ie rules, I cannot give out the name of our Company Solicitor. However, the name of the Company Solicitor is on our 2013 Financial Statements and all owners would have been giving a copy before our AGM.

In relation to your other questions;
1) I'm under the impression that you were not present at our AGM because you would have seen that our Solicitor is a man.
2) I don't know how much he is charging.
3) We have been involved in 2 legal cases and the Solicitor outlined at our AGM that he was involved in other work along with the former Director regarding the accounts and I bet also that she is getting paid as I doubt very much that she would be doing the work for FOC.
4) Right now; there is no resolution in sight on my part until a full investigation into our company business has been carried out.

Regarding a resolution in sight with the other members - I can't answer this question on the basis that each individual member is responsible for his/her own decision in regards to withholding their fees. Please bear in mind that other members have more important concerns apart from why the grass is not getting cut. Some members are quick to forget that there is an underlining problem that will not go away and want to be resolved before our fees are handed over. The longer this underlining problem remains unresolved, the longer members will withhold their fees until the Directors, Agent, Auditors and Company Solicitor answer our questions. Should they withhold the answers from the members, then there is one question that comes to my mind - WHY are they withholding the answers?? Something to hide??

Feel free to make contact with our Agent in regards to the full answers of your questions as I'm sure they be more than happy to help.

I was away on business at the time of the AGM. to put my concern down to merely the grass not being cut is to trivialise my point. I am a house owner (subject to mortgage) and therefore I am very much concerned with the upkeep of the Estate as it directly impacts on the value of my home.

The Solicitor is obliged to advise of the rates which will be charged and I believe it to be naive to hire him without finding out how much it will cost (With all due respect).

My concern is also regarding the potential cost involved should we lose these two Actions and have to pay further sums in terms of legal costs. Surely a cost-benefit analysis should have been embarked upon before launching cases?

IN-THE-KNOW

Directed at everlast75;

1) Did you make your concerns known to our Agent/Director before the AGM? If not, why??

2) Legal fees are already included in the budget which is paid through your service charges. The Company Solicitor is meant to be representing all members (not just the Directors) therefore his costs are the last thing on my mind.

3) Regarding the 2 action cases - our company lost the cases (it wasn't rocket science) and therefore owe thousands of legal fees!! Creditors are entitled to get paid for work carried out and for some reason the former/current Directors thought it was okay not to pay our previous agent and ex-gardener and go to court instead!!!

IN-THE-KNOW

The Company Solicitor has failed to acknowledge and answer the questions that was put forward to him in a letter regarding company matters therefore I have no choice but to seek outside legal advice. Clearly an indication was given that our Company Solicitor is not acting in the best interest of the members.

I would strong advise members to delay the payment of their service charges until a full investigation into our company has been complete. Since July 2013 no direct answers has come from our former/current Directors therefore they are not interested in resolving the issue on hand and yet they expect members to pay their service charges?!?! - COMPLETE JOKE TO SAY THE LEAST!!!

A copy of the letters to the Company Solicitor will be delivered to the residents within the estate for their records. Should any member receive a debt collection notice - please send them a copy of these letters and insist the questions to be answered as there has been irregular activity with the former/current Director.

IN-THE-KNOW

Letters will be issued to residents this week...

Lantus

IN-THE-KNOW wrote: »

The Company Solicitor has failed to acknowledge and answer the questions that was put forward to him in a letter regarding company matters therefore I have no choice but to seek outside legal advice. Clearly an indication was given that our Company Solicitor is not acting in the best interest of the members.

I would strong advise members to delay the payment of their service charges until a full investigation into our company has been complete. Since July 2013 no direct answers has come from our former/current Directors therefore they are not interested in resolving the issue on hand and yet they expect members to pay their service charges?!?! - COMPLETE JOKE TO SAY THE LEAST!!!

A copy of the letters to the Company Solicitor will be delivered to the residents within the estate for their records. Should any member receive a debt collection notice - please send them a copy of these letters and insist the questions to be answered as there has been irregular activity with the former/current Director.

The company solicitor is employed by the directors and the company and you have no legal right to demand information from him by simply bypassing the directors. He will take his instructions directly from him. This is the same for all services like block insurance for example. You cannot have members ringing up and making claims or demands ad hoc. Information must be issued in a controlled manner by the people responsible, the directors.

By not answering the solicitor is clearly acting in the best interest of the company and all the members.

Making the next suggestion of telling people to not pay their service fees based on this one small matter is lunacy. The only people who will be hurt will be the people of grange Rath. Fees will slide, people who once paid will now be unwilling to do so and the area will gradually fall into disrepair and lose value. The company solicitor will probably not even notice unless they live there. I doubt he will shed a tear.

Its the same old problem. You want to complain endlessly at the current directors but out of an estate of nearly 1000 units no one seems willing to replace them even when you had ample opportunity at the recent AGM. I just don't get it.

Are people really dissatisfied at the directors the same as you? Presumably not otherwise there would be dozens of people ready to take over and make a change. You can't keep complaining as a community if no one is willing to take over. Expecting total transparency and change by the current crop is just unrealistic expectation.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

I have to agree regarding the solicitors and I too am confused by the fact that there were no takers for roles at the agm if feelings are generally running so high.

IN-THE-KNOW

Directed at Lantus – many thanks for coming back to me on this matter.

The questions I wanted answers to were put forward to the Company Solicitor on the night of the AGM and these were NOT ANSWERED. The Company Solicitor stated on the night that he was there for “OTHER BUSINESS” on the night i.e the levy fee in order to pay the ex-gardener outstanding bill that he won in the High Court. Therefore, the questions I wanted answers to were put forward to the Company Solicitor in writing so I would have a record of in order to build up my case.

Please note for the records that I’ve never told members NOT to pay their service charges – I’ve always advised members to “WITHHOLD” their payment until this whole mess is resolved. Would you like to hand over your hard earn money to the people who created incomplete and inconsistent accounts?? I certainly wouldn’t and I certainly won’t be shamed into it either. Not cutting our grass is the least of member’s worries at this present time.

We have now been told that there is a new independent chairperson/director and a new committee group. I asked our Agent for more details i.e. the name of this independent chairperson/director and surprise surprise again this was not answered!

IN-THE-KNOW

Letters being delivered to residents next week...

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

About what and from whom?

IN-THE-KNOW

After reading through our AGM minutes from the night of the 29the April 2015, I can safely say that these minutes are not a true reflection from the night. Who remembers any Director being elected on the night for example??

Again, I will urge members to "WITHHOLD THEIR SERVICE CHARGE PAYMENTS" until our company is in accordance to the Company Law/MUD Act. Withhold payment of your hard earn money. Cutting corners are still continuing by our Directors/Agent - they cannot be trusted in my opinion.

leonards

IN-THE-KNOW wrote: »

After reading through our AGM minutes from the night of the 29the April 2015, I can safely say that these minutes are not a true reflection from the night. Who remembers any Director being elected on the night for example??

Again, I will urge members to "WITHHOLD THEIR SERVICE CHARGE PAYMENTS" until our company is in accordance to the Company Law/MUD Act. Withhold payment of your hard earn money. Cutting corners are still continuing by our Directors/Agent - they cannot be trusted in my opinion.

Who are you?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

IN-THE-KNOW wrote: »

After reading through our AGM minutes from the night of the 29the April 2015, I can safely say that these minutes are not a true reflection from the night. Who remembers any Director being elected on the night for example??

Again, I will urge members to "WITHHOLD THEIR SERVICE CHARGE PAYMENTS" until our company is in accordance to the Company Law/MUD Act. Withhold payment of your hard earn money. Cutting corners are still continuing by our Directors/Agent - they cannot be trusted in my opinion.

The AGM ended with directors in place.

You cannot ask people to withhold monies due.

IN-THE-KNOW

Directed at Srameen; the AGM ended with the current Directors in place - not a new Chairman in place. No Director nominations were put forward in advance of the AGM. I've seen the minutes and it states that the new Chairman was elected on the night and proposed/seconded by members of the floor. It is understood by members who were at the meeting to the very end that this is a false statement that was recorded in the minutes by the Directors.

I'm not asking people to withhold monies due - I'm advising people to withhold monies due - there is a difference! Should people wish to pay over their payment of service charges to Directors/Agent and Auditors who recreated incomplete and inconsistent accounts - FEEL FREE!!!

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

IN-THE-KNOW wrote: »

Directed at Srameen; the AGM ended with the current Directors in place - not a new Chairman in place. No Director nominations were put forward in advance of the AGM. I've seen the minutes and it states that the new Chairman was elected on the night and proposed/seconded by members of the floor. It is understood by members who were at the meeting to the very end that this is a false statement that was recorded in the minutes by the Directors.

I'm not asking people to withhold monies due - I'm advising people to withhold monies due - there is a difference! Should people wish to pay over their payment of service charges to Directors/Agent and Auditors who recreated incomplete and inconsistent accounts - FEEL FREE!!!

Advising is worse than asking.
Directors were deemed elected in the absence of any nominations. Ask yourself why we elected to keep the current directors.
Are you a lone voice?

With that I'm out, as I can't determine who you are directing these "updates" to.

Lantus

IN-THE-KNOW wrote: »

Directed at Srameen; the AGM ended with the current Directors in place - not a new Chairman in place. No Director nominations were put forward in advance of the AGM. I've seen the minutes and it states that the new Chairman was elected on the night and proposed/seconded by members of the floor. It is understood by members who were at the meeting to the very end that this is a false statement that was recorded in the minutes by the Directors.

I'm not asking people to withhold monies due - I'm advising people to withhold monies due - there is a difference! Should people wish to pay over their payment of service charges to Directors/Agent and Auditors who recreated incomplete and inconsistent accounts - FEEL FREE!!!

Chairman is a title to describe who chairs the meeting. Nothing more. It can be any director present or even a member.

Non payment of fees is a breach of contract and hurts the estate short and long term. Its not a solution, just lashing out and usually by someone who doesn't understand the omc process.

A solution could be electing new directors and starting to make progress in a new direction. Just a thought.

In relation to a previous post asking the co sol. At the agm is OK but approaching outside the agm process is a no no. You cannot put anything on writing to the co solicitor and expect answers! If your that aggrevieved get your own solicitor for good advise.

My concern is that your trying to do things you have no right to, getting frustrated and then trying to claim wrong doing which is counter productive.

IN-THE-KNOW

Directed at Lantus; in order for any Chairperson, Treasurer or Secretary to be elected for any company, they have to become Directors first.

Regarding to our accounts and again I must state; our accounts were INCOMPLETE and INCONSISTENT throughout - WHO IN THEIR RIGHT MINDS WOULD PAY OVER THEIR SERVICE CHARGES TO THESE PEOPLE WHO IS MEANT TO BE ACTING IN THE BEST INTEREST OF THE MEMBERS - WOULD YOU?? Again, any member that wishes to pay over their service charges - FEEL FREE!

At the AGM; our company Auditor stated clearly that they were unable to give an audit opinion on the accounts as they have not been given sufficient records. In addition, the Auditor stated clearly that it was very rare for an Auditor NOT to be able to give his opinion!!!

If our company had nothing to hide, then my questions and other members questions would be answered with no hesitation - there is no transparency!

In the meantime, our ex-gardener who won his HIGH COURT CASE back in October 2014 has NOT received ONE PENNY and has been ignored by our Agent this week regarding payment he is due. They didn't even have the decency to return his calls the other day, therefore the winding up of our company is likely to go ahead!

Mylow

Being remote (I now live and work in the Netherlands) from this mess its very difficult to untangle the whole thing with claims and counterclaims.

A couple of facts stand out.

1. The gardener won his case and needs to be paid
2. From the outset of new gardener the standards fell dramatically

A lot of advocating of fees not to be paid etc.
Is it possible for residents to pay (fees i.e. owed money) the gardeners solicitor? Get a receipt for payment and send it to the current management company. Possibly pay the 85% of fees to gardeners solicitor and remaining 15% to management company.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Mylow wrote: »

Is it possible for residents to pay (fees i.e. owed money) the gardeners solicitor? Get a receipt for payment and send it to the current management company. Possibly pay the 85% of fees to gardeners solicitor and remaining 15% to management company.

That is not legally possible.

Lantus

Being a chairperson for the purposes of chairing an agm is an entirely different thing to director roles like chairman and treasurer.

Only directors would occupy these roles but they are not a specific legal requirement.