Grange Rath Update - payment of service charges

IN-THE-KNOW

GRANGE RATH UPDATE;

The board of directors in Grange Rath are refusing to answer any questions that have been put forward from the owners. Since the current directors were elected in March 2013, here is their achievement to date;

• Terminated the contract of the management agent.

• Terminated the contract of the gardener.

• Hired an office, hired 2 employees - employed the wife of a director and one of the directors and took control of the whole estate.

• Held an AGM, given notice to owners of 10 days and did not present the year end accounts - company solicitor allowed this to happen! Complaint issued to the Office of Directors Corporate Enforcement.

• Budget passed, the 2 employees are now getting paid of €79K between them. Office hire is €10K.

• Owners have gone on site to the office - office closed.

• It was found that the 2 employees have other full time jobs hence the appointments that must be made in advance.

• Changes to the Memos & Arts were made behind the owners back. The Secretary of Grange Rath and the company solicitor authorised those changes. Among the 16/17 changes to the document, one section was added in were all directors/committee members could be paid for their work ie travel expenses, hotel expenses and other expenses. Board meetings held every Monday - no wonder!!

• Complaint issued to the Office of Directors Corporate Enforcement - the changes were put back to the original document therefore the company name is no longer Grange Rath Limited - it's Colpe Management Company.

• Now our company is being taken to COURT – creditors not getting paid.

• The board of directors/company solicitor has NOT issued an apology to the owners - this is unacceptable.

Now the board of directors are seeking payment of service charges - WOULD YOU PAY under these circumstances??

IN-THE-KNOW

The board of directors have not conducted themselves in the right manner.

They authorised one political party to carry out a cheap marketing stunt and to advertise in a way were the development name was made out to be their followers – who on earth gave the board of directors that right?

There is a couple of political parties living within the development as it is therefore there is so much doubt if they had contacted this particular party looking for help regarding the ongoing issues on hand.

This thread is not to slag off any political party or even have a discussion on political views but NO POLITICAL PARTY should ever be given the chance to carry out cheap stunts ahead of local elections.

Lord TSC

Is this the political party, and leader of said party, that was on that letter they sent round the other day asking for late fees?

IN-THE-KNOW

Yes and in addition, a letter titled "development name political party name news" along with the political party logo was hand delivered to the residents doors last month.

IN-THE-KNOW

Again the board of directors gave permission to other political parties to advertise within the development by displaying posters on the poles.

Grange Rath development is a private estate therefore these political parties would have to seek permission from the board members only to carry this out.

In my opinion the board members are now trying to smooth things over by allowing other politicial parties advertise within our estate because they obviously realise what they did last month was totally wrong!!

Lord TSC

Noticed the posters. Wondered about the legalities. Can't remember seeing posters inside the estate before.

kbell

Spotted one election poster on a pole just inside the entrance to my estate.
I'll remove it later.

IN-THE-KNOW

Just to make you aware that ALL posters were removed from within the development...thank you!

Tramps Like Us

What political party was the original offending one?

IN-THE-KNOW

Directed to Tramps Like Us - thank you for your post! Unfortunately I'm not willing to say on the basis that residents of Grange Rath are aware of the politicial party that issued the newsletters to us back in Feb'14.

Tramps Like Us

Hi ITK I live on the Dublin road and there have been election posters stuck up on poles in the estate, in particular at the entrance and I'm just wondering if they were the same party. How did you get rid of them, did you contact the party in question or just rip them down yourself? (Tempted to do just that!)

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Tramps Like Us wrote: »

Hi ITK I live on the Dublin road and there have been election posters stuck up on poles in the estate, in particular at the entrance and I'm just wondering if they were the same party. How did you get rid of them, did you contact the party in question or just rip them down yourself? (Tempted to do just that!)

If they are legally put up it is illegal for you to take them down until after the set date for their removal. Just because they are in an estate does not make them illegal. It is a public road after all.

Tramps Like Us

Helena Dazzling Penmanship wrote: »

If they are legally put up it is illegal for you to take them down until after the set date for their removal. Just because they are in an estate does not make them illegal. It is a public road after all.

It gets fierce windy sometimes, maybe they'll blow down.

Tramps Like Us

BTW if the newsletter yer on about is the one which had a bit about SF helping out with something I think you're a bit OTT with your reaction but I can see why it might annoy you, but you cant substantiate your claim that they were not legitimately asked to help as you imply earlier in the thread. Plus you got a separate letter from the party? I dont see the big deal about this I get "updates"/newsletters from political parties all the time. (frequency increases come election time for some reason lol) If you ever live in Dublin you'll be swimming in them. In any case what has this letter to do with the board of directors?

I remember there was a load of crap about FFs Thomas Byrne a few years ago when he lived in the estate (I did too back then, dunno if he still does)

Just about the court action, the residents voted to defend it and it was on foot of previous directors actions..

TBH you have told a very one sided account of things and it looks like you have an axe to grind. Plus they have addressed these questions you have, just not in the form some are demanding (ie written). They've even offered separate face to face meetings to discuss the issue which akaik the people making a fuss have refused to attend

IN-THE-KNOW

Updated newsletter in our doors on Monday evening by the board of directors;

1) Glad to see a professional management agent now looking after our estate but I'm so confused after the FACT the directors claimed last year at our AGM that they could not hire a management agent to look after us hence the reason why they had to hire an office and employ a wife of a director and a director to work for Grange Rath - what is going on?? Again, NOT ALL INFORMATION IS DISCLOSED TO US OWNERS.

2) 2 out of the 4 directors have now stepped down.

3) Court action case taking place on Monday 12th May'14 regarding non payment of invoices to our ex gardener - it is such a shame because the ex gardener was employed to look after our development from day one and at all times our grounds were to the highest standards. Since last year, the standards have dropped and it's unacceptable.

IN-THE-KNOW

Directed at Srameen - thank you for your post! Displaying posters on the poles within the grounds of the development does make it illegal according to our lease.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

IN-THE-KNOW wrote: »

Directed at Srameen - thank you for your post! Displaying posters on the poles within the grounds of the development does make it illegal according to our lease.

I was referring to a post regarding an estate not your "development". If an estate includes public roads then the posters are legal. A tenancy lease cannot dictate how the local authority legislates for it's property.

IN-THE-KNOW

Directed at Srameen; YES you are correct, were an estate includes public roads then posters are legal.

IN-THE-KNOW

Just a quick update on the court case that took place yesterday (Monday 12th May'14);

Due to a backlog of cases to be heard in the High Court, the case will now be heard tomorrow (Wednesday 14th May'14).

If the case goes to trial (please God it won't), please be aware that all owners in Grange Rath will be faced with a VERY HIGH legal bill ie around €100,000 price tag or more.

How any member in our development can deny the work that was carried out by the ex-gardener is mind boggling to say the least - hopefully the Judge can see through the nonsense of this ridiculous case set out by the ex/current board of directors!!!

IN-THE-KNOW

Just a quick update that our 2nd court case in the High Court is taking place tomorrow (Monday 19th May'14) with our ex-management agent.

The ex/current board of directors and their so call "legal advisors" have created a BIG MESS for our company.

Owners have NOT been provided with the name of the solicitor(s) that is meant to be representing OUR COMPANY. Who are these solicitors? Where are they based? What experience do they bring to the table? Have they won many High Court before? Are they actually qualified?

peterrose

Looking at the court filings on courts.ie the solicitor is listed as Business and Commercial. These appear to be www businesslawyers ie . There is a recent affidavit from a Jamie Sherry listed who is a senior partner in this company so it appears to tie up. I have no idea of their track record.

If you want to see the case details (limited as they are) go to courts.ie and search for high court case listing year 2013 case 1607. All appearances, filings etc are listed here as will be the judgement when the judge rules.

IN-THE-KNOW

Directed at peterrose; many thanks for coming back to me on this, much appreciated!

I can't believe the ex/current board of directors were using the same solicitor from Business and Commercial that carried out the illegal changes to our company Memos & Arts!!!

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

They are for the Defendants.RYERIVER SOLICITORS act for the Plaintiffs.

nmcgwynne

And we will get the bill for their mess. Just one point the 2 directors have not actually stepped down. I was in the high court on 26 May and all 4 indicated to the judge they wer directors. Their resigination is not registered with the CRO. Even it was the following is true

The law says that simply resigning as a director in not sufficient to cease being a director of a company. The person MUST stand aside. <Snip> has not done this and is therefore a director until he stands aside.

The law also says that a person who acts with the authority of a director is a director even if they were not elected. This role is called a de-facto director. <snip> has been acting with authority with the company and is therefore a director.

I contacted the new agent 3 times over the last week and they are not being clear about whether thet are acting or not. Last night I asked specific questions

Are they the agent? When will they engare? How to enter a payment plan? I'll update here if I get an answer or if I don't on Tuesday 3 June.

IN-THE-KNOW

Hi...

According to the CRO office, 5th May'14, B2 form submitted, termination of the directors of the 2 named directors - back dated 30th April'14.

According to the CRO office, 6th Jun'14, B10 form submitted, new registered address is the address of our new management agent - back dated 29th April'14.

Still no welcome pack from our new agent and the ground maintenance is a totally disgrace - weeds coming up from areas that never happened before!

Lord TSC

Whoever is doing the grass now is doing a really poor job; it's being left quite long so a week later looks horrible, weeds are being left to grow a few feet high, and there is a weird scattergun approach to where is getting cut and when; a large green area outside my house was done but one further down wasn't and the bits on the footpath in front of the house haven't been done in weeks.

Don't know what the point of paying the charges are if the quality is this low....

Though noticing some areas are being kept pristine of course....

IN-THE-KNOW

I agree; the last cut wasn't carried out to the highest, a bit here and a bit there, totally unacceptable! The weeding is certainly not being looked after hence getting out of control.

When our ex/current directors wrote to us owners after the Easter weekend, they stated a new management agent was now in charge - what has been carried out since?

In my view, for the last 6/8 weeks - no one has been looking after our estate and I would certainly like to see a change, rapid!!

leonards

I won't be paying fees again this year.... The grass in park court a disgrace and kids can no longer use greens.. So no more reason for me to pay unless grass is frequently cut....

Lord TSC

Speaking off, apparently letters are being put in letter boxes from the new crowd right now...

Does it really take 65k a year for Ground Maintenance alone? And this in separation to the 5k for "caretaking" and 3k for "Tree replacement"?

IN-THE-KNOW

Hi...

Yes, I believe owners are not happy with the notice of the EGM only issued to owners today - company law states 14 days notice at least however last year was more shocking in my view of an AGM notice only issued to owners 10 days or less!!

So far for ground maintenance, I've seen between €55K to 80K. So far what I have notice in the last year, the cheaper the price, the cheaper the cut hence the state of the grounds! Sometimes it is worth paying that little bit extra to get good quality standards i.e. what we were paying the ex-gardener for a number of years!!

YES - caretaking fees would be seperate i.e. he could be carrying out litter picking, cleaning of bin areas, site inspections to common areas i.e. checking for any lights blown in the apartment blocks etc...

YES - tree replacement would be an additional cost.

Lantus

just reading about your omc and I am truly shocked at what the directors have done.

•edit•

Lord TSC

IN-THE-KNOW wrote: »

Hi...
So far for ground maintenance, I've seen between €55K to 80K. So far what I have notice in the last year, the cheaper the price, the cheaper the cut hence the state of the grounds! Sometimes it is worth paying that little bit extra to get good quality standards i.e. what we were paying the ex-gardener for a number of years!!

YES - caretaking fees would be seperate i.e. he could be carrying out litter picking, cleaning of bin areas, site inspections to common areas i.e. checking for any lights blown in the apartment blocks etc...

YES - tree replacement would be an additional cost.

Honestly, I feel if we're paying the gut ends of 75k for the upkeep of the estate, it really should be in a far, far superior state right now. Essentially, I feel that level of cash should have two people in full time employment (and that would leave plenty for them to buy equipment if needed, replace the trees and bushes, etc). And we certainly do not appear to be getting a level of quality of two people in full time employment. I would have no problem paying for quality if quality was being delivered, but once again, it looks like we're getting some cowboys taking advantage of a situation by charging top notch prices and delivering lowest level work.

<snip>

Out of interest, what are the rates like for other estates in town?

IN-THE-KNOW

Directed at Lantus; many thanks for your post, it is so refreshing to see such comments from an experience volunteer director who knows about the companies memos & arts! I wish our directors and the so call company solicitors knew how to obey by them!!

As far as I'm aware we have at least 25 acres of common area green within our development. It is surprising to see such competitive rates that you were able to seek from contractors for your size development - interesting indeed. Our old gardener did try to compromise with his specification and reduce the fee down to even half the price but it is understood that the directors were not interested as they just wanted to hire "their friends / family members" to do the work!!

It was hard to believe that 10K was catered for the office. It was understood from some owners that when they were able to attend the office when opened, you couldn't have more than 2 people in the office! I know of offices being rented out for €50 per week!!

IN-THE-KNOW

Directed at Lantus again; please be aware that I did receive your full message even though some of it has been removed at 18.10hrs. Thank you for your advice and it's certainly being looked into at present!!! :-)

IN-THE-KNOW

Directed at Teamshawdowclan; the ex-gardener hired 2 people, so 3 people in total was looking after our green area and obviously over the years people could see how much of a standard was kept up. Since last year, you can certainly see the difference, I never seen the green areas to be in bits and the weeds are a totally disgrace! It will be interesting to see what the next gardener will bring to the table, will their standards meet our ex-gardener, only time will tell!

Lantus

apologies to mods for legal advice.

IN-THE-KNOW

Directed at Lantus - thank you again for your advice, much appreciated!

YES, Grange Rath is a very large estate however only a small percentage of owners are interested in the running of the company. Unfortunately some owners just want to pay their service charges and let other people do the worrying.

In the last year, the ex/current board of directors, their so call solicitors and their followers have been making the decisions. Unfortunately, some owners do not attend their AGM/EGM's therefore decisions have been easily agreed with these people.

Now we have a new management agent - hopefully things will improve from here on in, afterall agents are there to assist/advise board of directors of the MUD Act and Company Law!

Lantus

IN-THE-KNOW wrote: »

Directed at Lantus - thank you again for your advice, much appreciated!

YES, Grange Rath is a very large estate however only a small percentage of owners are interested in the running of the company. Unfortunately some owners just want to pay their service charges and let other people do the worrying.

In the last year, the ex/current board of directors, their so call solicitors and their followers have been making the decisions. Unfortunately, some owners do not attend their AGM/EGM's therefore decisions have been easily agreed with these people.

Now we have a new management agent - hopefully things will improve from here on in, afterall agents are there to assist/advise board of directors of the MUD Act and Company Law!

Directors do make all the decisions, that's how it works! AT the AGM there is an opportunity for input by reisdents and good omcs get feedback all the time. Of course most people have been educated only enough to complain and not provide well thought out solutions to problems or help in any meaningful way.

Beware valuable input from the agent. They are a profit making entity and ensuring they are paid is their no.1 priority at all times. They also must take all directions from the directors as to their scope. Make sure you have a good contract!

IN-THE-KNOW

Directed at Lantus; many thanks for coming back to me.

Oh I know directors normally make all the decisions in other developments and it's so refreshing to see and easier on the agents! However in our case our ex/current board of directors (elected in March'13) clearly had no experience and they proved themselves to <snip> i.e. inputting a section to our memos & arts of were they can pay themselves - as I stated in my previous post, no wonder they had board meetings every Monday. How often would you have board meetings? So on that basis, we do need an agent, that is licensed according to the PRSA and that goes by the MUD Act and Company Law at all times.

Lantus

IN-THE-KNOW wrote: »

Directed at Lantus; many thanks for coming back to me.

Oh I know directors normally make all the decisions in other developments and it's so refreshing to see and easier on the agents! However in our case our ex/current board of directors (elected in March'13) clearly had no experience and they proved themselves to <snip> i.e. inputting a section to our memos & arts of were they can pay themselves - as I stated in my previous post, no wonder they had board meetings every Monday. How often would you have board meetings? So on that basis, we do need an agent, that is licensed according to the PRSA and that goes by the MUD Act and Company Law at all times.

A managing agent would not of prevented any of these actions by the directors as far as I can see. As long they were getting paid they would say its up to the directors. Only directors can alter the AofA's anyway.

it takes a lot of reading and experience to get you up to speed on all relevant legislation as a director, its an ongoing process and no one starts out with all the knowledge or skills they need to do the job. You jump in and tackle each bit one at a time. Its a step learning curve and mistakes will be made but you have accept failure as part of the process towards success.

These days one of my measures of ongoing improvement is mistakes, complaints and often threats of legal action! I'd rather be guilty of doing something and trying to improve the estate even if feathers are ruffled than playing it safe and failing or wishing I'd tried harder.

IN-THE-KNOW

Directed at Lantas; many thanks for coming back to me.

A management agent would have to inform the directors of a development that in order for the wording of the memos & arts to be changed in any way, it would have to be agreed by 75% of it shareholders at an AGM/EGM or in writing, so in our case agreed by 708 units. This would have to be carried out legally by a solicitor also. Again in our case, we had no management agent so the board hired a so call solicitor who by right was "qualified to carry out his duties as a solicitor". The solicitor involved would have known what the proper procedure was to carry out the changes to our memos & arts and for him and the Secretary of Grange Rath to certify our memos & arts "duly passed in writing" on the 10th April'13 (6 weeks after the board members were elected), in my view, was not a small mistake! Both the board members and their so call solicitor knew exactly what they were doing at the time and they should be ashamed of themselves!!

YES, it does take alot of reading and experience for directors to get to know the legislation as a director and fair play to any owner carrying out the task as it's not easy to say the least but this is why the management agents are involved because they already have the experience and they are there to help and assist the directors along the way.

Lantus

I think your placing too much faith in a managing agents ability or willingness to tell the directors what they should or should not do.

Also, re the solicitor they should be referred to the law society and a formal complaint made against them.

Lord TSC

Does anyone know why certain areas seem to be having lovely short grass and others have a meadow outside their house? Someone was telling me they heard some areas are coming together to do it among themselves, but I'd imagine that's not as easy in areas with small fields in front of them....

IN-THE-KNOW

Directed at Lantus; from experience, management agents do have alot of experience and they don't tell directors what to they, they advise them of the best course of action to take on certain matters. If directors choose not to accept their advice, then that's the decision they have made and no hard feelings.

Directed at Lord; Yes, some owners in the "Parks" have decided to come together and cut the grass themselves purely on the basis that the grass wasn't being cut on a regular basis by the last gardeners and the standards were not kept up to the highest as promised. Unfortunately because of the behaviour of the ex/current board of directors in the last year, owners have stalled the payment of their service charges, therefore some services will be affected i.e. cutting of the grass.

IN-THE-KNOW

As per EGM tonight and as per statement made earlier to the floor;

•Last year's fees i.e. 2013/2014 - I'm withholding the fees due to the mismanagement of Grange Rath that was carried out by the ex-directors/current directors and <snip> changes to our Memos & Arts behind the owners backs by Secretary of Grange Rath and the solicitor.

•This year's fees i.e. 2014/2015 - I'm withholding the legal fees due to the solicitor that was involved in our <snip> change to our Memos & Arts and previous court cases.

So on that basis, I will be happy to pay the rest of my portion towards this year's fees i.e. 2014/2015 which will be paid upon request for payment. As I stated to the floor, I do not wish to go through another 11 months chasing the Secretary of Grange Rath for answers to my questions. He is clearly too afraid to put anything in writing because of his behaviour therefore he is not fit to carry out his role has Company Secretary.

Should owners need more information, please private message me, thanks!!

Lantus

why not just elect new directors? Surely for such a large estate there are more people willing? If you keep people who allegedly committed fraud on your board your basically giving them a green light to rob you blind.

Mylow

What initiated all the changes was a proposal to bring in clamping. The idea being you get a parking permit if you paid your fees, those who didn't pay the fee's would not get a permit.

As I recall an EGM was called in relation to this issue. After the proposal to introduce clamping the 2 resident directors allegedly received threats and stood down. One of the directors was the chairman of the residents association, the residents association no longer functioned.

I was a member of the residents association from 2007 to 2009, events were regularly ran for the kids in the estate, but as usual it was core people running all these events and found it difficult to get a representation from each street.

I know live abroad but still have my home in Grange Rath, I was back last weekend and to say the place is a disgrace is understating it.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Did the council not take over the roads and lighting for this estate?

IN-THE-KNOW

Directed at Lantus - In the past we had good directors looking after our estate but unfortunately in 2012 they were faced with a group of owners who taught entirely different to them to the way the estate should be managed therefore there were alot of disagreements at meetings / arguments / lies being told and of course involving the ODCE into the mix. These good directors resigned and these group of owners were elected. Now good owners do not wish to take part in the running of the development therefore we do not have any other choice (as it seems).

Directed at Mylow - Yes, your statement is correct.

Directed at Srameen - NO, the council has not taking over the estate i.e. roads / lighting until the development is 100% complete by the developer and to be honest it could take years for the council to decide to take over the estate.

Lantus

that's a shame re the first batch of directors. You get a group of good people doing an honest job for nothing but <snip>

I'm guessing like a lot of this country and managed estates the residents didn't want to speak out or lacked any real knowledge to make any reasonable contribution so kept their mouths shut and went along with it.

Can't blame the directors for what they did. The residents sanctioned their actions from day one. Its the unit owners estate and the law is of the opinion that as owners in in a managed estate they should be competent in understanding all the issues and decision making implications.

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."

IN-THE-KNOW

Directed at Lantus - interesting quote from Edmund Burke but very true! :-)

That is the thing; there has been certain things said about some of these bullies and unfortunately some residents are aware of "these said things" and they do not want to get involved, want to keep their mouths shut and just go along with it! Unfortunately I'm not built that way - I do not care who these people are, what they are involved in, who they know etc... if they are doing something wrong and I find out about it, they will be reported to whoever I see fit.

<snip>