Malaysia Airlines flight MH370-Updates and Discussion

Kavs8

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Could it not glide for a certain period with its main wings intact as long as the fuselage wasn't pierced?

No because the basic aerodynamics of the aircraft would have been immediately lost, its like trying to keep a car under control when you get two simultaneous blow-outs at high-speed.

sopretty

Kavs8 wrote: »

Absolutely not, the only warning is the plane would spiral out of all control and a crash would be inevitable, think about it if say that had happened the aircraft would suddenly go from a cruise situation at 35,000ft to spiraling towards the ocean, it would have been over very quickly and any pilot would to the very end focus on trying to recover the aircraft. ATC although useful could do nothing in that situation but distract your attention away from recovery.



Yes but alike AF447 we have no concrete information and an aircraft missing at sea, even with radar coverage there is no information.

Thanks for that. I'm not a pilot so I don't understand anything about them. Saw a pilot interviewed and he said something similar today. You only send a mayday call if you think it will help. Clearly, if you're nose-diving into the ocean, a mayday call is going to be of limited use to you! Didn't really understand that it would be that severe of an impact with a tail going off, but figured a pilot would surely notice his tail missing!

Kavs8

sopretty wrote: »

Thanks for that. I'm not a pilot so I don't understand anything about them. Saw a pilot interviewed and he said something similar today. You only send a mayday call if you think it will help. Clearly, if you're nose-diving into the ocean, a mayday call is going to be of limited use to you! Didn't really understand that it would be that severe of an impact with a tail going off, but figured a pilot would surely notice his tail missing!

It would happen so quickly you would just be stunned and you're immediate reaction would be to stabilize the aircraft - For example have a look at this YouTube video after 5:00;

It was caused by the First Officer over using the rudder, and they didn't realize, the aircraft was much lower and at a lower speed and the consequences were dire, so at 35,000ft and that speed it would be very similar and unfortunately it would happen in to quick of time to the assess the situation. Regardless even if you knew you could do nothing but try your best to recover, but its impossible once its out of control because the aerodynamics are gone.

Very technical, but hey welcome to aviation!

SpaceTime

At this stage I think you could probably rule out terrorist organisations as they would have publicly claimed responsibility for it by now.

These kinds of organisations are totally publicity seeking.

knucklehead6

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Don't be so smug. That plane crashed in very deep water and it was understandable that it took some time to retrieve the wreckage.

How is that smug? With AF 447 they didn't even locate the black boxes until almost a year AFTER the crash, let alone recover them

You are asking how have they not recovered the black boxes from this flight yet you haven't asked does the Vietnamese navy even have the technical expertise to recover something from water that is up to 100m deep. It's not a case of getting a lad into a pair of swimming trunks and throwing him over the side with 2 cavity blocks tied to his ankles. Diving to that depth is incredibly dangerous. Black boxes don't float.

You are asking questions, and that's fair enough, but when you say a situation is descending into a farce cos they haven't released any concrete information leads me to believe that you don't understand the difficulty with searches and disasters of this type.

Hell, look at Steve Fosset. Lost for over a year in the continental US. Yes, it was a small plane, but if a plane can go missing over land in one of the most technologically advanced countries in the world, then a large jet can go missing over the sea.

knucklehead6

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Could it not glide for a certain period with its main wings intact as long as the fuselage wasn't pierced?

No. The rudder is essential to the control of the aircraft. The B2 has no rudder but has computers making corrections to the control surfaces up to 40 times a second.

I think the only times i can recall an aircraft flying under SOME control after rudder failure is JAL123 and United 232

SNAKEDOC

SpaceTime wrote: »

At this stage I think you could probably rule out terrorist organisations as they would have publicly claimed responsibility for it by now.

These kinds of organisations are totally publicity seeking.

Not necessaarily. There was two stolen passports reportedly used on the flight. Very strange that two on the same flight and it suddenly goes of the screens.
Im thinking a possible attack. We will find out in the near future. Surprisingly no wreckage spotted yet. Those water channells are very well used by ferries and fishery boats so why no radio contact with any body seeing a plane in trouble.

Kavs8

And in fitting time to the above post, confirmed now a third stolen passport and apparently a Russian who did not board the flight - If this is a case of the bag not following the passenger, there will be serious repercussions.

YbFocus

Oh Christ well that's sealed it for me at this stage, unless control over there is a joke? ?

Skuxx

After reading online that the Italian and Austrian men who were supposedly on the flight are both alive and well in their home countries, and both had their passports stolen while travelling in Asia! Seems like some people were travelling on these passports, would indicate a terrorist attack??

SNAKEDOC

Something does not feel right about this incident. With all thats going on with china and tibet it could be a long time before these folks take credit for it if it was an attack. Flight bound for beijing mabe it was meant to get to its destination.

Kavs8

Watching an interview with an INTERPOL rep saying there is less than 1% of false passports in circulation around the world but it is a serious crime,

My question - How plausible is it that three passengers are on the manifest with stolen passports? and something sinister did not happen?

Tigerandahalf

knucklehead6 wrote: »

How is that smug? With AF 447 they didn't even locate the black boxes until almost a year AFTER the crash, let alone recover them

You are asking how have they not recovered the black boxes from this flight yet you haven't asked does the Vietnamese navy even have the technical expertise to recover something from water that is up to 100m deep. It's not a case of getting a lad into a pair of swimming trunks and throwing him over the side with 2 cavity blocks tied to his ankles. Diving to that depth is incredibly dangerous. Black boxes don't float.

You are asking questions, and that's fair enough, but when you say a situation is descending into a farce cos they haven't released any concrete information leads me to believe that you don't understand the difficulty with searches and disasters of this type.

Hell, look at Steve Fosset. Lost for over a year in the continental US. Yes, it was a small plane, but if a plane can go missing over land in one of the most technologically advanced countries in the world, then a large jet can go missing over the sea.

I was not asking that. You are misquoting me.
I just find it very strange that over 24 hours after a plane disappears there is so little information coming forward and so little information about the plane's last movements.
When the Air France plane crashed it seems that the ACARS info was transmitted which gave clues as to what happened. As a poster stated above we haven't heard if any of this data was received.

sopretty

Kavs8 wrote: »

Watching an interview with an INTERPOL rep saying there is less than 1% of false passports in circulation around the world but it is a serious crime,

My question - How plausible is it that three passengers are on the manifest with stolen passports? and something sinister did not happen?

It's a bit of a leap to believe that the three non-law-abiding individuals with the passports just happened to be on the same flight together.

fr336

Kavs8 wrote: »

Watching an interview with an INTERPOL rep saying there is less than 1% of false passports in circulation around the world but it is a serious crime,

My question - How plausible is it that three passengers are on the manifest with stolen passports? and something sinister did not happen?

I thought it was two at the moment and that three was someone on here's mistake?

It's annoying when people confuse situations like this.

knucklehead6

Kavs8 wrote: »

My question - How plausible is it that three passengers are on the manifest with stolen passports? and something sinister did not happen?

In this case 2+2 is looking very like 4

Kavs8

fr336 wrote: »

I thought it was two at the moment and that three was someone on here's mistake?

It's annoying when people confuse situations like this.

Xinhua (Chinese State News Agency) going with that story now. 3 stolen passports. Russian did not board flight - Not sure if the Russian is connected to one of the passports at this stage.

YbFocus

fr336 wrote: »

I thought it was two at the moment and that three was someone on here's mistake?

It's annoying when people confuse situations like this.

Just confirmed on here a min ago fr, a Russian.
As always very little other than speculation though so give it time for proof to surface

fr336

Kavs8 wrote: »

Xinhua (Chinese State News Agency) going with that story now. 3 stolen passports. Russian did not board flight - Not sure if the Russian is connected to one of the passports at this stage.

Apologies; that is odd then (even two would be maybe). Wouldn't be the first time that terrorists haven't claimed it or there has been a delay in them doing so.

knucklehead6

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I was not asking that. You are misquoting me.
I just find it very strange that over 24 hours after a plane disappears there is so little information coming forward and so little information about the plane's last movements.
When the Air France plane crashed it seems that the ACARS info was transmitted which gave clues as to what happened. As a poster stated above we haven't heard if any of this data was received.

How ling was it after the AF447 crash that the info about the ACARS transmissions was released? I can't remember but i doubt very much it was in the first 24 hours.

SNAKEDOC

fr336 wrote: »

Apologies; that is odd then (even two would be maybe). Wouldn't be the first time that terrorists haven't claimed it or there has been a delay in them doing so.

I wonder is there any international laws where if the government know it was an attack are they bound to. Let everyone else know or could they keep it under wraps to prevent the airline business going bad in the area.

sopretty

SNAKEDOC wrote: »

I wonder is there any international laws where if the government know it was an attack are they bound to. Let everyone else know or could they keep it under wraps to prevent the airline business going bad in the area.

I watch way too many episodes of Criminal Minds, but in that programme at least, which is based around the Behaviour Analysis Unit of the FBI, they choose not to alert people in certain cases, where chaos would prevail if they did. I know it's fictional and US based, but I'd imagine, there is a lot that goes on that we don't know about.

Kavs8

Breaking on Xinhua now that the Malaysian PM is saying the aircraft has not crashed. I know this will be the worst aviation disaster in Malaysia, but its obvious now the aircraft has crashed.

Malaysian Transport Minster, who initially said it was not terrorism has now told Xinhua, ''We are looking at all possibilities but it is too soon to speculate.''

knucklehead6

Kavs8 wrote: »

Breaking on Xinhua now that the Malaysian PM is saying the aircraft has not crashed. I know this will be the worst aviation disaster in Malaysia, but its obvious now the aircraft has crashed.

Malaysian Transport Minster, who initially said it was not terrorism has now told Xinhua, ''We are looking at all possibilities but it is too soon to speculate.''

The Malaysian PM could be hinting at the possibility that the plane was brought down, rather than crash

SNAKEDOC

Yea but if its a case where aircraft are concerned then there could be other aircraft at risk so if they knew then all aircraft would be instinctivly grounded but this hasn't happened or has it i dont know.

Tigerandahalf

This is a quote from the Mirror's online newsfeed.

"Aviation experts have said tonight there will be two strands to the investigation into what happened.

This will be the aircraft's maintenance and also whether terrorists were involved in the plane's disappearance.

Speaking to Sky News, aircraft expert Chris Yates said: "We simply don’t know the circumstances behind what caused that crash at the moment.

“There will be two areas for the investigation: the maintenance of the aircraft and also possible terrorism.”

.... "

cml387

knucklehead6 wrote: »

How ling was it after the AF447 crash that the info about the ACARS transmissions was released? I can't remember but i doubt very much it was in the first 24 hours.

The ACARS broadcast is freely available to anyone with a shortwave radio, a pc and a soundcard.It doesn't have to be "released".

Kavs8

Guys I really think for the benefit of this thread and those interested we should try stick to reputable news sources, I'm not saying the last post had anything irrelevant but frankly I don't think reading the Mirror and its counterparts will add anything to this thread, they have 0% credibility when it comes to aviation.

fr336

Kavs8 wrote: »

Guys I really think for the benefit of this thread and those interested we should try stick to reputable news sources, I'm not saying the last post had anything irrelevant but frankly I don't think reading the Mirror and its counterparts will add anything to this thread, they have 0% credibility when it comes to aviation.

Any ideas on reputable sources?

Kavs8

A few I have stuck to;

BBC
RTE
Xinhua
CNN

And in relation to aviation sources;

FlightAware
Flightradar24

I'm not dictating who can quote what or anything haha, just would like to see the thread uphold sourced and reputable information.